One Year Ownership Report - '08 1200 Sport

[willowstreetguzziguy]

MISSION:  I wanted a motorcycle with the same character and charisma as my 1975 BMW R90S. I gave it up in 1986 after 9 years of ownership for a new K75C because too many things were going wrong with it. Never forgot that bike. Currently own a pristine 1993 BMW K75S.

SEARCH:   Boxer engine BMW’s after 1976 never felt as good as the R90S. Moto Guzzi met the engine criteria.  So after a test ride on a new V7 & Griso and a 2007 Norge, I realized that the V twin engine was fantastic but the riding position and appearance were not quite right.  Searching Moto Guzzis from the year 2000 on, I discovered the 2008 1200 Sport.   

·Only imported in 2008
·Bikini Fairing
·Tubular handlebars
·White gauges
·Alloy silver engine & drive train
·Wave front disc brakes
·Rear seat cowling

FOUND: In November 2013, in Oklahoma, 1-owner, 3,800 miles, mint. I took a grueling 3-day bus ride to OK and enjoyed a 1,400 mile ride back to PA in temps in low-mid 50's.

OBSERVATIONS: It was everything I wanted and more. On the ride home, I quickly named it the “BULL TRAIN” because the engine & torque reminds me of a Bull under 60 mph and on the interstate, it’s a Freight Train!

CHANGES I'VE MADE:

·       1.5” LOWERED FOOT PEGS – A wildguzzi member offered me new 1.5” lowered footpegs
                                                                  at a great price
·   ADDED 1” of FOAM to the SEAT – A wildguzzi member gave me the idea to raise the seat height 1”
                                         with foam. The 2.5” of increased leg space makes a world of difference!!!
·   MODIFIED SIDESTAND, BRAKE FOOT LEVER &  SHIFT LEVER – to accept lowered foot pegs
·   BUNGIE CRUISE CONTROL – Relief for my wrist
·   LAMINAR LIP & STELVIO HAND GUARDS- For cold weather riding
·   CORTECH TANK BAG – For carrying stuff


LIKES                                             
Engine - low end torque & power, clean metal appearance, keeps shins warm below 75 degrees 
Exhaust sound
Throttle response 
Riding Position   
2-valve engine characteristics
Tank Wings – keeps knees and thighs warm below 75 degrees 
Instrument information center– temp, mpg, time of day, riding time, etc.
Handlebars – yes I like them!
Wind protection with bikini fairing & tank wings
High speed stability – gusts of wind don’t blow it around
Wild Guzzi forum members
Fuel injection - Lack of cold bloodedness – Can get going as soon as start up
6 Gallon fuel capacity
Braking power


DISLIKES
Headlight beam pattern (high and low) is terrible
Horn is pathetic
Lack of helmet lock, gear indicator, self canceling turn signals, center stand are missed
Plastic fuel tank
Engine oil dipstick location
Exhaust popping under deceleration
Seat not hinged
Small dealer network

After 1 year and 5,400 enjoyable miles ridden, I’m thrilled with the bike and the wildguzzi forum members!  Thanks for passing along so much interesting and valuable information. Her's to warm weather!!!

[Doppelgaenger]

Nice report.

I just picked up a Breva 1100, I wanted to get a sport but it was just too much money. They're going to make collector bikes some day so keep it looking nice!

[Kev m]

Didn't you get the helmet lock? On my B11 there was a post under the seat and a small cord with two metal rings on each end. You loop the cord through your helmet strap, placing the rings over the post, then pop the seat back on.

At least that's the theory, I never used it, never even took the cord out of the plastic bag.

I funny think Jay has either.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Change out the Horns for a pair of cheap plastic FIAMMs, about $30/pair with a relay
http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-horns/fiamm-freeway-blaster/
Mount them so they are self draining, don't ask me how I know.

Exhaust popping can be stopped by setting the mixture a little richer at closed throttle.

[Kev m]

Exhaust popping can be stopped by setting the mixture a little richer at closed throttle.

Not so sure about that in this case.

I thought the popping on these was related to not shutting down injectors on closed throttle, i.e. already rich.

Not to mention the Guzzitech reflash did nothing to reduce that on my B11, and I'd have expected it to if it was an easy fix.

[willowstreetguzziguy]

Yes I have the helmet cable & post under the seat but many times I'm carrying a seat bag bungied to the seat for carrying stuff and it's inconvenient to get under the seat. Instead, I have my own small lock and cable that I use.

As far as the Fiamm horns, I've had them on my K75's since 1986 and they never fail to get drivers attention. I plan on getting a pair by spring.

The exhaust popping... I need to schedule a spring servicing and I will have that looked into.

Had I not been able achieve the additional 2.5" of leg room, I doubt I would have kept the Guzzi. It was that painful! In fact, in order to ride it home from Oklahoma, a three day ride, I had to sit on top  of my duct taped rain suit to get the added leg room.   

[Kev m]

The exhaust popping... I need to schedule a spring servicing and I will have that looked into.

It's not going away...

[Triple Jim]

Just curious... is this a distinct popping like a small backfire, or a bla-bla-poof-bla like my old Mille does?

[dlapierre]

You should be able to set up the gear indicator by going through the various screen setting that are available. I can do it on mine. I've just never bothered. Check the manual.

[Mile High Guzzi]

Re 1200 Sport, I really like mine, good all around bike.  Re Decel Popping.  I have the full GuzziTech air/fuel/exhaust treatment on mine (which includes the Dynojet PCV w autotune), and I still get closed throttle popping.  Even if there is a way to tune it out of the map, I'm not literate enough to know what parameters need changed  ::).  But, interestingly, I do notice that the colder the ambient temperature, the less popping, and in cold winter riding, no popping at all.  So that would seem to suggest that the popping is caused by too much fuel vs air, but in the winter, there is more thicker air to burn the excess fuel and it doesn't pop......is that the way it works?

[Matteo]

My dealer in Portland was able to smooth out the decel.

[not-fishing]

I agree with you the joys of a 2V guzzi.  My 07 Griso's accelleration is more than enough for me.

Thanks for note on raising the seat.  I haven't gone on any really long rides but after 3 hours I can feel it in my knees.  (old soccer and ski injuries that have never been fixed)

Thanks for mentioning a Bus ride, I'm still looking to increase my stable (dreaming of a small block, quota & sidecar) and I was always thinking it would have to be a fly-n-ride or long trailer drive out - long trailer drive back.  When I bout my Griso it was a 14+ hour trailer drive to get it.  A Bus would be worth considering over a trailer drive.  Luggage would be easy to deal with and I wouldn't have the airport security screening delay.

On the helmet lock I use a Helmetlok II through my bars.  

I haven't had my Griso for a year yet and have replaced the tires, brakes, battery & sealed the speedo sender.  Not a big deal because I got the bike at a very reasonable price.  

Having the ECU reflashed and the suspension sorted out by the previous owner has been a big plus.

[willowstreetguzziguy]

You should be able to set up the gear indicator by going through the various screen setting that are available. I can do it on mine. I've just never bothered. Check the manual.

I've never heard of such a thing. If anyone knows of this, please let me know. I would love to have a gear indicator on my dash.  As for now, someone mentioned months ago to figure it out like this... at 3,000 rpms, look at your speed and remove the 0. Example: at 3,000 rpm 30mph = 3rd gear, 40 mph = 4th gear, 50 mph = 5th gear, and 60 mph = 6th gear.

[bad Chad]

When my B1100 was stock it didn't pop at all off throttle.  The reason, I believe, is that I had one of the best techs in the country do the initial set up, and subsequent servicing.   I have seen Jim at Rosefarm take bikes that others couldn't get right, and make them so, just saying.

It did pop after I took off the stock crossover and put on a Mistral pipe, however, Guzzitech.com sold me a plug in Optimizer for around $100 that cured 90% of the popping.

[Vasco DG]

Re 1200 Sport, I really like mine, good all around bike.  Re Decel Popping.  I have the full GuzziTech air/fuel/exhaust treatment on mine (which includes the Dynojet PCV w autotune), and I still get closed throttle popping.  Even if there is a way to tune it out of the map, I'm not literate enough to know what parameters need changed  ::).  But, interestingly, I do notice that the colder the ambient temperature, the less popping, and in cold winter riding, no popping at all.  So that would seem to suggest that the popping is caused by too much fuel vs air, but in the winter, there is more thicker air to burn the excess fuel and it doesn't pop......is that the way it works?

No. The reason you get popping on the over-run is that unlike most car systems the Magnetti Marelli set up as programmed doesn't cut the fuel completely on the over-run. On a negative throttle the ECU will keep delivering the same amount of fuel at any engine speed as it does at idle. Because at higher engine speeds the motor will pump harder the mixture goes critically lean so it cannot fire every second revolution but residual fuel will enable the mixture to ignite every forth or eighth revolution and then when the exhaust valve opens the exiting gasses will ignite the previously expelled but unburnt charge in the pipe causing the backfiring.

There are a couple of ways of dealing with it, the most successful is to cut the fuel completely in all the cells of the map at 4.6/4.8 TPS value down to close to idle. If there is no fuel being delivered there's nothing to burn and therefore no backfiring! This isn't without some side effects. It increases engine braking slightly but noticeably which some people don't like and also you get a slight but detectable 'Lurch' when the fuel cuts back in. On the map I'm currently running the fuel switches back on at 2,700 RPM and as I pass down through that point I get a detectable hiccup and in certain conditions one slight pop, that's it.

The second way is to add more fuel at those closed throttle TPS points so that the engine won't eight and twelve stroke but continues to fire every second revolution of the crank. The problem with this though is that a.) you're burning fuel for no purpose which is wasteful and will cause splintering of corn cob pipe stems and b.) it will of course mean that at idle the mixture will be very rich risking plug fouling and potential bore wash.

For either of these two solutions to work you have to turn the lambda off. With a stock bike particularly this will explain why the problem diminishes in cold weather. The engine temperature sensor on the 2V bikes sits in a plastic container in the back of the right hand head and is notoriously poor at accurately reading temperature. In cold weather it will *think* the engine is cooler than it is and enrichen the mixture accordingly. This will have the same effect as adding more fuel at those low TPS values in an open loop map and once again it will impact on fuel consumption and will screw with the AFR.

Generally, unless people are upset by the side effects, Mark's maps all chop the fuel down to 2,700. If they do find the side effects upsetting it's easy enough to turn the fuel back on in those cells. Personally I only notice it, (The fuel cutting back in.) when I'm descending a long, steep hill on a closed throttle and I actually enjoy ignoring the Tacho and predicting the moment the fuel comes back in but I'm a simple soul who takes pleasure in small things! ;D

Pete

[Vasco DG]

It did pop after I took off the stock crossover and put on a Mistral pipe, however, Guzzitech.com sold me a plug in Optimizer for around $100 that cured 90% of the popping.

On any bike that uses the W5AM controller I would advise extreme caution when considering one or any of the 'Sensor Fooler' solutions be they 'Optimisers', 'Fat-Duc's', 'Memjets' or any of the other myriads of names that these things are sold as. They can have serious and unexpected consequences.

Pete

[bad Chad]

Will you expand on that some Pete?  I have run it this way for a couple years now and have not noticed any ill effects.

[Vasco DG]

How's the fuel consumption?

[boatdetective]

 I bought a ofc and O2 optimized from Todd. Worthless. I installed Guzzidiag and downloaded a map from Molly- that dud the trick bike runs great with no popping. Fuel economy isn't great, but I'm willing to sacrifice some mpg. Let me know your email and I'll send you the map.

[AH Fan]

Talk to Micha at moto International ..Seattle.
Those boys will let you know what needs to be done........... worked for mine.

Cheers. 8)

[Kev m]

When my B1100 was stock it didn't pop at all off throttle.  The reason, I believe, is that I had one of the best techs in the country do the initial set up, and subsequent servicing.   I have seen Jim at Rosefarm take bikes that others couldn't get right, and make them so, just saying.

It did pop after I took off the stock crossover and put on a Mistral pipe, however, Guzzitech.com sold me a plug in Optimizer for around $100 that cured 90% of the popping.

No, it probably popped stock, but you couldn't hear it as well as you could when you replaced the exhaust.

That's my experience, including after when I had Eraldo Ferracci work on it.

[bad Chad]

No, I am certain in stock form it did not pop whatsoever.  I stand by my claim that there is none better in the US for making a Guzzi run as well as it can, than Jim Barron, and that includes Eraldo Ferracci.

To Petes question, milage did drop some, I generally get about 36-38 around town, 40-41 highway.  But from my perspective, I don't consider that serious or unexpected.

[hhkiwi]

Re Decel Popping.  I have the full GuzziTech air/fuel/exhaust treatment on mine (which includes the Dynojet PCV w autotune), and I still get closed throttle popping.

That's interesting. I also have the full GuzziTech treatment (PC V w/ auto tune, flashed ECU, large opening air box lid, BMC filter) on my 2008 Sport and no longer experience any decel popping, no matter what the temperature outside (I'm in SoCal so it is usually warm). I also have an Agostini muffer fitted though which may make a difference.

[Kev m]

So what does Jim do? I mean if he's not manipulating maps, the mechanical side shouldn't be so elusive.

Unless it's dumb luck... Some are mechanically or electronically in better shape in the first place.

But it's not just a case of whether or not the valves are set perfectly or the throttle bodies are ideally balanced.

[dave1068]

Glad to hear you like your bike and were able to make the right changes. I also had this bike and liked it but at 6'2, my arms and legs were too long to get comfortable. I use to joke the bike was ideal for a tall midget. Great pick up and smooth ride, I just couldn't comfy on it even adding bar risers.

Made me curious if that's why it was a 1yr model only w/ huge discounts down to 7-8k for leftovers. great fit and finish. Good luck!

[Vasco DG]

No, I am certain in stock form it did not pop whatsoever.  I stand by my claim that there is none better in the US for making a Guzzi run as well as it can, than Jim Barron, and that includes Eraldo Ferracci.

To Petes question, milage did drop some, I generally get about 36-38 around town, 40-41 highway.  But from my perspective, I don't consider that serious or unexpected.

The old story then.

"These modern bikes are mapped up really lean so to get them to run properly you have to add more fuel."

Only they aren't. In fact the exact opposite is true but we won't let facts get in the way of perceived wisdom.

Sensor foolers are crude at best and effect more than simply one table in the map. With bikes equipped with the W5AM they can result in massive overfuelling at certain engine speeds and loads and generally will produce inconsistent results.



Pete

[bad Chad]

I'm not really sure how he does it.  I'm fairly confident to say it's some measure of everything you pointed out, and perhaps a bit more.   

I'm not saying all bikes came from factory exactly the same either, perhaps that has something to do with it too?

[Joliet Jim]

I think Jim uses eye of newt and frogs breath along with an ample supply of fresh chicken blood

[Kev m]

I'm not really sure how he does it.  I'm fairly confident to say it's some measure of everything you pointed out, and perhaps a bit more.   

No, it's not. A bike would have to be so freakishly out of balance on the TBs and ridiculously out of adjustment on the valves for it to CAUSE decel popping when it otherwise wasn't doing it that it's practically impossible. It would have to be accompanied by a whole lotta other more significant symptoms.

I'm not saying all bikes came from factory exactly the same either, perhaps that has something to do with it too?

I think THIS is the only logical answer, unless Jim has a Rexxer he's not telling people about.

[dlapierre]

You should be able to set up the gear indicator by going through the various screen setting that are available. I can do it on mine. I've just never bothered. Check the manual.

My mistake. I checked the manual...page 65. The title is Gear Shift Indicator, but in the instructions it talks about shift threshold settings, meaning RPM settings. As I said, I never bothered to try it out.