V100 California Merged Threadfest

[rocker59]

May as well start a thread for it.  It's on the way...

[Bpreynolds2]

Sign me up.  Done right it could be fantastic. 

[AJ Huff]

Zero interest in the potential Stelvio or the V100, but a California would strike my fancy.

-AJ

[inditx]

Stop.It.
I haven’t even picked up my new V85 yet......
 
inditx

[inditx]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfE9qdn653Q

A new pronunciation for Guzzi, lol....

inditx

[LowRyter]

?  nothing official?  I suppose the V100 is the only platform they have?

[izzug otom]

It's good to see Guzzi to innovate, even though I'm no fan of the v100, but I can't help but think they're missing out on a substantial market in full on retro models, as close to the original spec as possible with as few modifications as is possible, with the exception of scrapping all plastic chrome and replacing with quality chromed steel (I've always said that about all Guzzi's 

I'm thinking along the lines of  Royal Enfield, AJS, etc, I imagine if Guzzi reproduced, authentically, classic iconic models such as the Lemans, T3, ___ insert your favourite model here____, they'd sell on the retro market.

I'd have thought a good few of the guzzisti would be keen if they really were straight replicas, and I think such iconic machine would be enough to tempt a good few non guzzi riders who like the retro look and feel.

It's not as if it'd lower the price on genuine originals from yesteryear, and it's not as if they couldn't carry on innovating and developing new lines at the same time, and I wouldn't have thought the costs would be too high, compared to possible rewards, to produce a few in whichever models, and put them out on show, and see what interest they'd generate.

Alright, I never buy new bikes, and I am biased, as I prefer the old school look, but there's a lot of us about, as you can tell by the average age of motorcyclists 

[elrealistico]

Oof, that would bottom out the used Cali/EV/Calvin/1400 prices--those pics of concepts look kinda nice---

[rocker59]

Oof, that would bottom out the used Cali/EV/Calvin/1400 prices--those pics of concepts look kinda nice---

How could they get much lower??  I bought a pristine 2004 Cal EVT for $3500 last year, which was top of the market.  Flat Tappet EVs have been available in the $2500 range for a few years, now. 

A new V100 California will be a modern motorcycle in the $12k to $15k range, and attracting customers from more modern motorcycles than the old California 1100 variants a few of us still ride.

As for the 1400s, there are not many around.  It may drive the prices down, as the ones I've seen lately for sale are quite optimistic.  I guess the Cal14 owners are in for some hurt when the bikes they're asking $10k for struggle to sell for $5k.

[elrealistico]

Same.bought my 04 this year for slightly less (needed tyres). 16K miles, hydro & clutch all good

Still, there is a dealer not far away that has an 01  for 8900, that has >35k miles And the usual FB and CL "I know what I got no lowballers"

Could give some hard competition to the Indian Scout/HD Sportser/1200 Triumph Bonneville, if and when--I think they will come out with something, after the Stelvio rollout--next year?

[Turin]

That video is a couple of Ober Bezzi (suck) renderings of a V100 spliced together with pictures and video of the California 1400. Those renderings are some ones hobby and not from Guzzi. The video is useless.

Is the cruiser market segment still big enough for Guzzi to make another Cali? Could be neat.

[inditx]

Yeah you could tell my pronouncing it Gucci lol

[bikeridertim]

I don't see it "replacing" the Tour. I do know that you can Tour on a 1100 as my E99 EV has 163,000 miles, but I don't think it will go in that market. Just not big enough. And they need a dealer network to support it also. I'm VERY lucky to have a dealer 35 miles away but not having a better network will keep some people from them!   
IMHO only
YMMV

[Bulldog9]

Zero interest in the potential Stelvio or the V100, but a California would strike my fancy.

-AJ

I hope they give a classic look. So far the Mandello and Stelvio do NOTHING for me but to look away...

That new Corsa on the other hand..............

[s1120]

Oof, that would bottom out the used Cali/EV/Calvin/1400 prices--those pics of concepts look kinda nice---

All the 1100 cali models are already by far the best value in the Guzzi world, and I cant really seeing a new bike effect that to any large degree. I wonder if there is a market for another import cruzer in todays age? Then again back in the day they needed to look like a HD to be looked at... today the HD's dont even look like HD's [RIP Sportster :(] so maybe its a better market for them? I just hope they do it well.

[blu guzz]

For what it is worth.  I have owned a 1400 twice now.  The monster torque is the real calling card for that motor.  No matter how much they try to "retune" the V100 engine, it simply will not pull the way the 1400 does.  Based on the less than successful experiment that BMW tried about 20 years ago with their 1200C models, Americans seem to prefer the torque first type of power plants for their cruisers.  Now, I think a Norge version of that engine would be a great idea.

[lucian]

For what it is worth.  I have owned a 1400 twice now.  The monster torque is the real calling card for that motor.  No matter how much they try to "retune" the V100 engine, it simply will not pull the way the 1400 does.  Based on the less than successful experiment that BMW tried about 20 years ago with their 1200C models, Americans seem to prefer the torque first type of power plants for their cruisers.  Now, I think a Norge version of that engine would be a great idea.

I agree with this completely. The fast reving nature of the v100 motor would  be weird in a cruiser . The lack of  the freight train feel of all the rotating mass of the 1400 motor, flywheel, clutch ect.  would be sadly missed.

[Dirk_S]

We talk as if the 1400 was a torque monster compared to others in its class. I’ve not ridden one, but many unpaid rider reviews noted it revs higher than your typical Harley, which is to be expected given the bore/stroke. That said, specs-wise, the V100 puts out more power AND more torque than an Indian Scout (albeit more torque at 1200+ more RPM); and the Scout is a great deal heavier than a V100 in its sport touring styling. A cruiser-style V100 would probably be a little heavier, but I doubt it’ll reach the girth of the Scout, the newer liquid-cooled Sportster, or the BMW R18. So, the performance should be there to compete. They just need to engineer a torquey engine sound ;)

PS—if Americans are so hung up on torquey cruisers, then why isn’t that R18 making a solid profit? Out of all the cruisers, it’s probably got more “American” cruiser heart and especially lots of low end torque—much more and much lower than the newer liquid cooled bikes. I think we’re in a new era where the gobs of grunt at low end is being phased out because the liquid cooling allows for more high-revving performance, the water-cooled way. My amateur uneducated opinion, at least.

[Vagrant]

It seems everybody has forgotten that the new V100 engine was originally designed to be a 1300CC. If Guzzi were to break out of the too heavy lead sled pig, peg dragging monstrosity mold everybody else is stuck in it just might sell. Think of a modern EV with 100 pounds less weight.

[Ncdan]

I think a mid weight tourer would be great but here lies the issue, for me anyway.
I had the 1400 tourer. Yes it had a great motor but that was the only plus it had, as a tourer and not just a  cruiser, there’s a difference.
True touring motorcycles offer a full set of bags, including a top case. They offer a total weather elements package including a full fairing, lowers, sound system and a complete comfort package for the second rider. My 1400 tourer offered none of those touring requirements, that I need in a tourer anyway.
So if MG cannot offer a true tourer they might as well not offer one at all.

[elrealistico]

PS—if Americans are so hung up on torquey cruisers, then why isn’t that R18 making a solid profit? Out of all the cruisers, it’s probably got more “American” cruiser heart and especially lots of low end torque—much more and much lower than the newer liquid cooled bikes.

It's ugly as sin

[Clifton]

I think a mid weight tourer would be great but here lies the issue, for me anyway.

True touring motorcycles offer a full set of bags, including a top case. They offer a total weather elements package including a full fairing, lowers, sound system and a complete comfort package for the second rider...... So if MG cannot offer a true tourer they might as well not offer one at all.

I didn't know this, I always considered my Road King, Cali 1400, and Gold Wing to be "true tourers"? But none of them have a full fairing with lowers, or a trunk (but a DryBag holds just as much when needed). No sound system on the RK or Cali either, the Goldwing does have a radio but it's never been on.

I'd give a serious look at a V100 California if done right with hard panniers, shield, comfy seat, heated grips, and cruise. Last place I want weight on my tourer is up high and behind the rear wheel but offer an optional trunk with backrest for the ones who don't care or those who carry a passenger.

[Ncdan]

I didn't know this, I always considered my Road King, Cali 1400, and Gold Wing to be "true tourers"? But none of them have a full fairing with lowers, or a trunk (but a DryBag holds just as much when needed). No sound system on the RK or Cali either, the Goldwing does have a radio but it's never been on.

I'd give a serious look at a V100 California if done right with hard panniers, shield, comfy seat, heated grips, and cruise. Last place I want weight on my tourer is up high and behind the rear wheel but offer an optional trunk with backrest for the ones who don't care or those who carry a passenger.

If you’ll notice I ended with “ for me anyway”.
Technically one can “tour” on any motorcycle. Just ask HUZO🤔

[ff73148]

After selling my 1400 Eldorado a few years ago I purchased a 2018 Gold Wing non tour model. The Gold Wing was a great bike but it lacked soul. So I bought a 2020 California Touring in 2021. Then I traded the California and a 2016 BMW R1200R I owned for a 2022 Can Am Spyder RT Limited as I wanted to give my wife more comfort when touring. But I missed that 1400 big block engine and owning a MG. In June I found a 2016 Eldorado with only 1400 miles on it for $8000. Essentially a brand new bike. If you have owned any of the 1400cc models you know there is no other tourer/cruiser out there like the MG. To me it's obvious that MG abandoned the 1400cc engine not because they couldn't reach
Euro 5, they wanted and needed a new engine to build the brand on. The V100 is not a touring bike. That engine won't go into a true touring bike. Hang onto your 1400.

[blu guzz]

I found the 1400 engine was calling me back.  It does rev about 2 grand higher than the big twin and the victory I had in the past.  I consider this it's secret weapon.  you get an engine that is fun to ride at low revs and will be happy short shifting all day long, but when you have the need for speed, no other air cooled cruiser touches it from 5000 to 7000 and it is smooth as glass doing it.  It will zip up to 100 with ease.  With that said, there are probably less than 1,000 1400s in this country of all types, so its a dinosaur, but more of a triceratops than t-rex. 
As for the BMW 1800, I had 4 BMWs over the years, all of the sport tour variety and they were excellent at that.  I would not call the 1800 ugly as sin but it is not to my taste.  I saw one at the Ohio rally, nicely finished, good stereo, makes my Eldo look like a middle weight which at a little over 700 lbs it is in the cruiser class where the road king weighs at least 100 lbs more. 
To each their own.

[Clifton]

....The V100 is not a touring bike. That engine won't go into a true touring bike. Hang onto your 1400.

I agree, the V100 chassis probably will need changed or a lot of modification to be suitable in a Tourer. But some have said the V100 engine was designed to be up to 1300cc so I see this engine but enlarged to 1200-1300cc.

[Bulldog9]

We talk as if the 1400 was a torque monster compared to others in its class. I’ve not ridden one, but many unpaid rider reviews noted it revs higher than your typical Harley, which is to be expected given the bore/stroke. That said, specs-wise, the V100 puts out more power AND more torque than an Indian Scout (albeit more torque at 1200+ more RPM); and the Scout is a great deal heavier than a V100 in its sport touring styling. A cruiser-style V100 would probably be a little heavier, but I doubt it’ll reach the girth of the Scout, the newer liquid-cooled Sportster, or the BMW R18. So, the performance should be there to compete. They just need to engineer a torquey engine sound ;)

PS—if Americans are so hung up on torquey cruisers, then why isn’t that R18 making a solid profit? Out of all the cruisers, it’s probably got more “American” cruiser heart and especially lots of low end torque—much more and much lower than the newer liquid cooled bikes. I think we’re in a new era where the gobs of grunt at low end is being phased out because the liquid cooling allows for more high-revving performance, the water-cooled way. My amateur uneducated opinion, at least.

I have to say that what I liked about my 1400 (for the 9 months I owned it) was the fat full smooth turbine like torque. Was a fantastic motor visually overbuilt and stuck in a big fat frame. It is a shame they didn't use the motor as they did on the Griso/Norge/Stelvio/Breva as a stressed member and with a sporting suspension. I sold mine because I was looking at a hip and knee replacement and the idea of pushing an 800+ pound bike around just did NOT suit me.

As for that BMW thing............. I have a couple buddies with one. I rode one back to back with a big Indian Challanger and there was no comparison. The BMW was just weird and jugly and bizzare looking. Both bikes were way too heavy for MY likes, but I'd take the Indian over the German all day every day.

I think what people are saying is that the California is a 'cruiser' and the V100 though it reportedly has an old school Guzzi feel is far more high strung and clearly needs more displacement to be taken seriously as a cruiser or touring cruiser.  We will see....

As I said above, the V100 offerings leave me cold so far..... The Corsa had me excited for a moment until I saw it was just another color scheme exercise on the V7 850.  Upgraded suspension front and rear, and twin discs would be $$ on that. I think the motor is fine for that chassis and class of bike. CMON Guzzi.............

[blu guzz]

To speak to your point, Bulldog.  While at the Guzzi dealer today, I sat on the V100 again hoping that it would rev me up.  I want to love it, but just can't seem to.  It's like when you finally get the hot girl to go out with you and discover there is no spark there.  They had a used Milano there and I sat on that and on an 850 v7 version.  The 750 Milano felt like a dirt bike in size whereas the 850 definitely felt more substantial.  For now, I will keep the 1400 until I can no longer push it around.  It is heavy to paddle around, but at least the seat is low.

[LowRyter]

Isn't the current bike a "tourer"?  It's equipped with the luggage and all the goodies other than a sound system.     It's not a heavy weight large displacement bike like a 'wing or RT.  Just by making it a "Cali" with cruiser styling isn't going to change what it is.

What am I missing here?   

[LowRyter]

I found the 1400 engine was calling me back.  It does rev about 2 grand higher than the big twin and the victory I had in the past.  I consider this it's secret weapon.  you get an engine that is fun to ride at low revs and will be happy short shifting all day long, but when you have the need for speed, no other air cooled cruiser touches it from 5000 to 7000 and it is smooth as glass doing it.  It will zip up to 100 with ease.  With that said, there are probably less than 1,000 1400s in this country of all types, so its a dinosaur, but more of a triceratops than t-rex. 
As for the BMW 1800, I had 4 BMWs over the years, all of the sport tour variety and they were excellent at that.  I would not call the 1800 ugly as sin but it is not to my taste.  I saw one at the Ohio rally, nicely finished, good stereo, makes my Eldo look like a middle weight which at a little over 700 lbs it is in the cruiser class where the road king weighs at least 100 lbs more. 
To each their own.

That 1400 had great power curve for tourer.   It had all the low punch of a Harley and another 2000 rpms for power.  It was a nice machine that they gave up on.  Just like they gave up on 1200 8v. 

The new bike has really good punch.  It's lighter weight bike that torque-y but revvy engine. 

Apples and oranges for sure.  But fo far as the 1400 it had it in spades over the Harleys and Indians.  But reliability and newer Indians and Harleys and it was gone.