Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zoom Zoom on June 10, 2019, 01:38:09 PM

Title: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Zoom Zoom on June 10, 2019, 01:38:09 PM
I'm posting this against my better judgment, but someone suggested that I should.

During the New York Rally, one of our members experienced the separated fuel filter on his Norge. Thankfully, there was enough knowledge and tools to get things back in service before he had to go home. Plastic was swollen and the tiny flare on the plastic where the crimp is had simply popped out for maybe 1/3 of the circumference. Some time and 17 bucks spent at NAPA, (so I heard), and all was well again.

As I have mentioned before, you can address this in the comfort of your garage or wait until you are sitting along the road.


Without debating why this occurs and whether or not this is something to be concerned about, I'm making people aware of it. I have personally seen this more than once and have related that here on more than one occasion.

Anyone can do whatever they desire, deal with it or not. It is no skin off my nose. I'm just trying to save someone some aggravation.

PLEASE NOTE: If this thread begins to go south, I will simply delete it! I'm not posting this to start an argument a debate.

John Henry

 
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: oldbike54 on June 10, 2019, 01:50:06 PM
  :thumb:

 Dusty
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Kev m on June 10, 2019, 02:24:47 PM
Out of curiosity, seeking data only, for our collective knowledge, year and mileage?
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Zoom Zoom on June 10, 2019, 02:36:10 PM
It was formerly John Wells Norge, an '07 I believe. I have no idea of the mileage on the bike.

John Henry
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Sheepdog on June 10, 2019, 02:43:00 PM
I did it on the road and in my shop on the Vintage. My hose popped off way before the filter started to expand. No problem since installing a comprehensive kit from MPH. I expect this is a problem with older bikes and most have already been fixed, but itís good advice to check it out.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: BillinPA on June 10, 2019, 03:43:17 PM
Not my bike but mileage is just north of 8k, the consensus is our ethanol content is the culprit
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Red on June 10, 2019, 04:08:10 PM
I add StarTron to all my motorcycles whether it is called for or not.  It is cheap insurance against the ethanol menace even if it was not the case here.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: frozengoose on June 11, 2019, 01:11:30 AM
We don't have ethanol gas up here, but I've always used metal in-line filters. You can get them for less than five bucks at most any auto parts store. They work great on caburated bikes and cars. Maybe not for fuel injected tho. They never break, but of course you can't see the gas in them.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: twowheeladdict on June 11, 2019, 05:20:30 AM
Not my bike but mileage is just north of 8k, the consensus is our ethanol content is the culprit

I hope that is accurate because I only run Non-Ethanol in my bikes with maybe the odd tank with ethanol that gets burned up the same day because I was not able to find non-ethanol.  Fortunately the country station near my house is all Non-Ethanol.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Cam3512 on June 11, 2019, 06:31:30 AM
Not my bike but mileage is just north of 8k, the consensus is our ethanol content is the culprit

Correct.  I donít think mileage is as much of a factor as is TIME that sucker has been submerged in the gas.  In this case about 12+ years.  My V7ís was swollen like a fat tick within the first year I changed it out.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: mechanicsavant on June 11, 2019, 06:59:55 AM
Thanks to the wisdom on this & other forums I changed out the OEM filter on my 16 Stone II shortly after the 600 mi. Service. It had already begun to swell!
One less thing to be nervous about. :thumb:
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 11, 2019, 07:13:57 AM
There was a report on another in the V11 forum this week. <shrug>
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: jpv7 on June 11, 2019, 07:18:54 AM
Did my V7II Special right after I got it.  It may have eventually failed, or not.  Now I don't need to wonder about it ruining my day.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: ohiorider on June 11, 2019, 07:42:09 AM
I did the 1200 Sport many thou miles ago.  What's the recommended interval for fuel filter change after replacing original with all metal one?
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: frozengoose on June 11, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
I did the 1200 Sport many thou miles ago.  What's the recommended interval for fuel filter change after replacing original with all metal one?

I change mine when I change the air cleaner filter. Never have had a problem with one clogging up and have used them for maybe forty years on several different bikes. They're cheap enough and easy to switch out, so you can do them more often if you think it needs it.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: lucian on June 11, 2019, 12:06:42 PM
Thank's for this thoughtful posts. Does anyone know specifically which models or years have the plastic time bomb?  It seems obvious that this is an off with the tank and out with the fuel pump job . Perhaps one of you who have been there could explain the procedure and maybe any hoses, clamps or gaskets ect. needed for the undertaking. Are there complete kits available?  I'm all ears.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: nsmith on June 11, 2019, 02:08:57 PM
Mine was a 2007 Breva 1100 that very seldom used ethanol. maybe 25k miles. That was a couple three years ago now. Not that hard to do but I wouldn't want to try it with the factory tool kit.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Ringosdad on June 11, 2019, 03:30:37 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/nrVTQL6/20190611-162408.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nrVTQL6)

(https://i.ibb.co/BP2P67m/20190611-162352.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BP2P67m)
 thanks to everyone who helped out!
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: pyoungbl on June 11, 2019, 03:32:47 PM
The metal/plastic fuel filter has been used by Guzzi for many years.  I suspect it is present in all the fuel injected models.  My memory is weak but I seem to recall my Cali EV having one...that goes back to about 1995.  My Norge, Stelvio, and V7 all had metal/plastic.  Pete Roper probably has more accurate info.

Peter Y.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Zoom Zoom on June 11, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
Thank's for this thoughtful posts. Does anyone know specifically which models or years have the plastic time bomb?  It seems obvious that this is an off with the tank and out with the fuel pump job . Perhaps one of you who have been there could explain the procedure and maybe any hoses, clamps or gaskets ect. needed for the undertaking. Are there complete kits available?  I'm all ears.

It seems that they use what they have available at the time. For instance, my '09 Stelvio has an all metal filter which was there from the factory. There are many reports of newer models, (right here in this thread), that have the half plastic filter. Without looking with a small camera lens or taking the tank off for inspection, I surmise there is no way of knowing for sure.

If in doubt, run the tank down to nearly empty and get someone with a camera to look in there.

It is generally assumed that the ethanol is the culprit but I'm not entirely sure that has been proven beyond any doubt. Perhaps it would be fine if not submerged, or a different plastic composition, or, or or,..........  This is actually beside the point that I'm trying to get across here.

When I travel, the very last thing I do is plan my trip around where I can get gas. I get gas when I need it, regardless of where it is. Sometimes it's that or walk. I refuse to plan my travels around a plastic fuel filter!

Really folks, I don't see any need to debate what, why, or how long in miles or years. Does it really matter? The fact is they fail and there is no rhyme or reason that anybody has actually quantified.

Assuming ethanol is the culprit, and it likely is, the amounts vary around the country, the miles and age vary on the bikes. It would nearly impossible to predict just when yours might fail. Maybe never, maybe soon.

Ask yourself if 20 bucks and an hour of your time is worth peace of mind? If you're in there anyway and it's half plastic, just replace it and be done with it!

A known issue with an inexpensive fix makes this a no brainer. At home when it's your idea is infinitely better than being stranded beside the road with no means of dealing with it.

John Henry
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Zoom Zoom on June 11, 2019, 03:51:43 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/nrVTQL6/20190611-162408.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nrVTQL6)

(https://i.ibb.co/BP2P67m/20190611-162352.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BP2P67m)
 thanks to everyone who helped out!

I'm really happy it worked out. You had the perfect setup with the rally. Truck, trailer, tools, knowledge. It could have been very different if you were just out for a Sunday ride alone someplace.

John Henry
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: TimmyTheHog on June 11, 2019, 04:00:33 PM
Stealing Thread:

Speaking of fuel filter, since I traded my 15 V7, I have a spare full metal fuel filter for the bike.

I bought the "full kit" from GuzziTech but never had the time to put it in. Always too busy riding :P

If anyone wants it, you may have it for free. Just got to pay the postage.

Since I do live in Canada, it is probably more beneficial people who live in States/Canada.

PM me and I will send to the first guy who message me.

End Thread stealing. :evil:
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: TimmyTheHog on June 11, 2019, 05:34:47 PM
Stealing Thread:

Speaking of fuel filter, since I traded my 15 V7, I have a spare full metal fuel filter for the bike.

I bought the "full kit" from GuzziTech but never had the time to put it in. Always too busy riding :P

If anyone wants it, you may have it for free. Just got to pay the postage.

Since I do live in Canada, it is probably more beneficial people who live in States/Canada.

PM me and I will send to the first guy who message me.

End Thread stealing. :evil:

Wow at the flurry of interest.

The fuel filter now has been claimed.

Thanks for all the messages :)
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Roebling3 on June 11, 2019, 05:58:27 PM
' I refuse to plan my travels around a plastic fuel filter!'  John Henry

2017 V7 III racer.
I intended changing the filter at the dealer, b4 delivery. I had heard of the problem enough times. Considering how and what the filter is made of, one time is enough. Considering the cost of the all metal, ~3 bux more OTC, I say WT* The original filter on my bike was swollen and badly distorted at 479 miles. A respected dealer said; 'All big blocks carry the all metal version'. I suspect that notion may rely on day of the week or convenience at the factory.

Some people rather do nothing and risk a really costly, risky, scary breakdown. The same for tires w/tubes. The NGK conversion. Ok? You're never out of sight from home. Go ahead on. I'm not in it to do research.

BTW: Do you dress to ride? Solve problems on the road? Change filters, tires, spark plug caps?  I'm not only lucky.  R3~ 
Face it: You must empty the tank. Remove 6 cap screws and with specifically contrived motions remove the pump/filter module from the tank. You're not quite 1/2 way there.  When mine was done under warrantee MG had changed their alleged mind about the process. The price for the filter became 360+ $. From that point on dealers were to replace the entire pump/filter module, rather than a failed filter.  R3~
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Zoom Zoom on June 11, 2019, 06:28:47 PM
R3, I'm not sure what your point is here.

ZZ
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: guzzi771 on June 11, 2019, 07:29:23 PM
My fuel filter failed around 900 miles on my 2017 V7 III Special I would have sold it then if I was stuck on the side of the road but it happen in my garage so I kept it
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: alanp on June 11, 2019, 10:09:26 PM
So is there a tutorial anywhere for replacing the filter?  V7II here.  I guess I have heard that the gas connection is extremely tricky, but not sure if that applies to the V7. 
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: TimmyTheHog on June 11, 2019, 11:24:26 PM
So is there a tutorial anywhere for replacing the filter?  V7II here.  I guess I have heard that the gas connection is extremely tricky, but not sure if that applies to the V7.

There are few ppl did it here with their posts.

If not, I used this PDF from some fellow from England

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yqitp1iyvp6r01t/Fuel%20tank%20removal.pdf?dl=0

See if you can see it
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Cam3512 on June 12, 2019, 05:37:47 AM
So is there a tutorial anywhere for replacing the filter?  V7II here.  I guess I have heard that the gas connection is extremely tricky, but not sure if that applies to the V7.

On my '14 Special, there was a fuel line disconnect further down stream from the tank.  Made it much more manageable.  Wrestling the pump out and back into the tank is the tricky part.  Gotta be patient.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: jpv7 on June 12, 2019, 09:31:20 AM
So is there a tutorial anywhere for replacing the filter?  V7II here.  I guess I have heard that the gas connection is extremely tricky, but not sure if that applies to the V7.
No, not too bad.  Per recommendations from this site, de-pressurize it first by disconnecting the pump connector under the tank, and cranking (or temporarily starting) the bike until it dies.  Then treat it like an air line fitting.  Comes off easy.  The pump and filter takes some patient jiggling to get out, but just take your time and don't force it.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Cam3512 on June 12, 2019, 07:15:20 PM
No, not too bad.  Per recommendations from this site, de-pressurize it first by disconnecting the pump connector under the tank, and cranking (or temporarily starting) the bike until it dies.  Then treat it like an air line fitting.  Comes off easy.  The pump and filter takes some patient jiggling to get out, but just take your time and don't force it.

Just to clarify, disconnect the ELECTRICAL wire connection under the tank then crank over a few times to depressurize.  Look for the disconnect downstream of the tank.  It's buried next to the frame.  Obviously the less gas in the tank the better.  I carried a spare bottle of gas and rode until I ran out.   Dumped in just enough to get me home on fumes.  Conveniently, I was 2 block from my garage.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Rich A on June 12, 2019, 10:46:22 PM
Question: when you replace the fuel filter, do you replace the hoses? Or is there enough hose that you can cut the ends; or do you cut off the clamps?

Rich A
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Vagrant on June 13, 2019, 06:13:28 AM
you carefully pry open the old ones and reuse the same fuel line. it is special (read expensive) to spend it's life immersed in gas. buy new US built full circle clamps like shown above.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: antmanbee on June 13, 2019, 06:27:38 AM
I replaced the hose and used Gates submersible hose  SAE30R10. Only type rated to be used inside a fuel tank. Gates 27093 $15.92 (1ft) Rock Auto.
All metal filter Mahle KL145. From Rock Auto. $11.66
High quality hose clamps. Got these from Amazon ABA 21014. $9 for 10 pack.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OL264DU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on June 13, 2019, 08:16:24 AM
I've read somewhere.. :rolleyes: that these half plastic fuel filters are only rated for diesel fuel by the manufacturer. They *have* failed in places that has no alcohol in the fuel. Why would Guzzi use them? Well duh. They got a bargain on a car load of them, and will use them up. The more things change with Guzzi, the more they stay the same.  :grin: Gotta love em.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: jpv7 on June 13, 2019, 08:58:58 AM
you carefully pry open the old ones and reuse the same fuel line. it is special (read expensive) to spend it's life immersed in gas. buy new US built full circle clamps like shown above.
What he said about carefully removing them.  My filter from Guzzitech came with Oetiker clamps like the OEM.  I got a tool from amazon to crimp them on.  Nice. 
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Davida56 on February 09, 2021, 02:35:28 PM
2018 V7 III Carbon Shine 0921/1921 taken in for first check-up at MPH Cycles Inc. They checked and replaced 1/2 plastic fuel filter for me.

Thank you for keeping this info out there. I should not have a surprise issue!
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: malik on February 09, 2021, 04:14:05 PM
2014 V7 Special - the 1/2 plastic fuel filter exploded at 123,000km (76,000 mi) - 270km after filling with an ethanol-enhanced fuel (by mistake, mis-read the sign on the bowser) if that means anything. Tow truck to the shed to change to an all metal one. Note that the fuel hose was fine, still in pristine condition, and so re-used.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Zoom Zoom on February 10, 2021, 07:29:50 AM
Obviously, I will need to consider addressing this on my Milano.

I am curious about the current half and half filters being installed. Specifically, has the composition of the plastic changed which would lend itself to being immersed in fuel thus keeping it from degrading? Does anyone have any specific info regarding the filters in use today? I mean, it has been many years since this issue was first identified. 

Malik, what was the condition of yours when you changed it out? Had the plastic half become soft and pliable?

I suppose I will replace mine regardless since it is an inexpensive fix.

John Henry
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: lazlokovacs on February 10, 2021, 12:52:11 PM
I replaced the fuel line on my Cali Vintge in 2007 after it popped off...

don't tell me that they're still putting that rubbish in the tanks??? Is the 2013 Griso affected?

Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Tom on February 10, 2021, 01:40:03 PM
The metal/plastic fuel filter has been used by Guzzi for many years.  I suspect it is present in all the fuel injected models.  My memory is weak but I seem to recall my Cali EV having one...that goes back to about 1995.  My Norge, Stelvio, and V7 all had metal/plastic.  Pete Roper probably has more accurate info.

Peter Y.

EV's came out in '98.  Not sure on the gas filter on EV's.  Previous model Cali would have the fuel filters outside the gas tank.  My '97 Cali1100i had the gas filter on the outside of the tank and I could get parts from NAPA.  My V11 Sports have external gas filters. 
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: guzziart on February 10, 2021, 01:56:21 PM
FWIW, I replaced the metal housed internal tank filter on on my '03 V11 Lemans last Spring with a new metal housed filter from Cadre Cycle.  At the same time, I replaced the internal flex hoses with similar (BMW) from Euro Moto Electrics.



(https://i.ibb.co/vXbtxjx/20200418-105921.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vXbtxjx)
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: malik on February 10, 2021, 06:03:22 PM
Obviously, I will need to consider addressing this on my Milano.

I am curious about the current half and half filters being installed. Specifically, has the composition of the plastic changed which would lend itself to being immersed in fuel thus keeping it from degrading? Does anyone have any specific info regarding the filters in use today? I mean, it has been many years since this issue was first identified. 

Malik, what was the condition of yours when you changed it out? Had the plastic half become soft and pliable?

I suppose I will replace mine regardless since it is an inexpensive fix.

John Henry

The filter had swollen, then burst the seam. Looks like the pressure forced it apart. There was a lot of particles in the fuel that should not really be there, & unlikely to all be from the filter - sand, gravel, rubber bits, powder (when dried).  Once the filter was separated from the pump, it didn't take much for it to fall apart further.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: malik on February 10, 2021, 06:09:33 PM
Photo of the offending article, as it came out of the tank.


(https://i.ibb.co/56j33PN/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/56j33PN)
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: Zoom Zoom on February 10, 2021, 07:28:11 PM
Yep, looks like the older ones. The more things change the more they stay the same.

ZZ
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: subin on February 10, 2021, 08:12:43 PM
My 2019 V7 III Night Pack has all metal filter.
Title: Re: Public service announcment. Half plastic fuel filter
Post by: lazlokovacs on February 11, 2021, 12:10:54 PM
Malik - that photo is from your 2014 V7 right?? I just can't believe that they are still doing this!!!!!

I feel really really really annoyed.