Royal Enfields

[sliphorn]

I saw the RE's today at the IMS Chicago. The 650 twins are lovely bikes and I'm sure they will sell boatloads of them. The Himalayan is nice too. Also on display was a concept 60 degree V-twin (838cc, I think) motorcycle, which was inspired by a 1930's British bike whose name escapes me. Air/oil cooled, girder fork, single sided swing arm and gorgeous wheels. The lead designer for the V-twin was there and is a very approachable guy and very enthusiastic about what RE is doing. RE seems to be filling a niche in the market in a rather brilliant way. Attractive, well designed/engineered bikes for a very fair price.

I also saw the Kawasaki W800 CAFE up close and personal, and I am here to tell you that the tank is NOT brown. Photographs of it appear to be brown but it is definitely NOT brown. Kawasaki calls it Metallic Magnesium Gray and the front cowl and side covers are called Galaxy Silver. That works for me. The rider's portion of the seat is brown and the pillion portion is black. It is a jewel of a motorcycle and exhibits excellent fit and finish. It was my favorite of the whole show, and it fit me like a glove. Lovely.

[Aaron D.]

Not brown? Sure photos brown

[Joliet Jim]

I saw the RE's today at the IMS Chicago. The 650 twins are lovely bikes and I'm sure they will sell boatloads of them. The Himalayan is nice too. Also on display was a concept 60 degree V-twin (838cc, I think) motorcycle, which was inspired by a 1930's British bike whose name escapes me. Air/oil cooled, girder fork, single sided swing arm and gorgeous wheels. The lead designer for the V-twin was there and is a very approachable guy and very enthusiastic about what RE is doing. RE seems to be filling a niche in the market in a rather brilliant way. Attractive, well designed/engineered bikes for a very fair price.

I also saw the Kawasaki W800 CAFE up close and personal, and I am here to tell you that the tank is NOT brown. Photographs of it appear to be brown but it is definitely NOT brown. Kawasaki calls it Metallic Magnesium Gray and the front cowl and side covers are called Galaxy Silver. That works for me. The rider's portion of the seat is brown and the pillion portion is black. It is a jewel of a motorcycle and exhibits excellent fit and finish. It was my favorite of the whole show, and it fit me like a glove. Lovely.

Did Windy City have any Guzzi's there or just RE's and Triumphs? Unfortunately looks like between Sundays expected snow and needing to get my daughter moved, looks like no show this year for the first time in a long time.

[keener]

I also saw the Kawasaki W800 CAFE up close and personal, and I am here to tell you that the tank is NOT brown. Photographs of it appear to be brown but it is definitely NOT brown. Kawasaki calls it Metallic Magnesium Gray and the front cowl and side covers are called Galaxy Silver. That works for me. The rider's portion of the seat is brown and the pillion portion is black. It is a jewel of a motorcycle and exhibits excellent fit and finish. It was my favorite of the whole show, and it fit me like a glove. Lovely.
[/quote]


Agree  beauty bike and worth the different in  $$$   

[sliphorn]

Not brown? Sure photos brown

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Yup................ NOT BROWN.

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[sliphorn]

Did Windy City have any Guzzi's there or just RE's and Triumphs? Unfortunately looks like between Sundays expected snow and needing to get my daughter moved, looks like no show this year for the first time in a long time.

----------

JJ,

JB and the crew from Windy City were there sans Guzzi. Damn shame. The RE display was getting a lot of traffic. They are definitely on to something.

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[sliphorn]

I also saw the Kawasaki W800 CAFE up close and personal, and I am here to tell you that the tank is NOT brown. Photographs of it appear to be brown but it is definitely NOT brown. Kawasaki calls it Metallic Magnesium Gray and the front cowl and side covers are called Galaxy Silver. That works for me. The rider's portion of the seat is brown and the pillion portion is black. It is a jewel of a motorcycle and exhibits excellent fit and finish. It was my favorite of the whole show, and it fit me like a glove. Lovely.



Agree  beauty bike and worth the different in  $$$

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Yup, 4K more than a RE INT and in my view, would be worth every penny. And it's only a few hundred more than a Triumph Street Twin, and in my opinion much nicer than the Triumph. The Kaw motor is air cooled, 360 degree crank, with a long stroke. Nice.

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[JJ]

Let's be honest here...at the end of the day...I don't think one could go wrong with ANY of these three! 

Just choose your flavor!  Kawasaki W800!! - Triumph Street Twin - Royal Enfield 650 INT -

[sliphorn]

Let's be honest here...at the end of the day...I don't think one could go wrong with ANY of these three! 

Just choose your flavor!  Kawasaki W800!! - Triumph Street Twin - Royal Enfield 650 INT -

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The first two, yes. Only time will tell concerning the RE. All of them are nice looking to be sure.

======

[sliphorn]

Huh!?

If that is true then they have finally seen the light.

Just like "clothes make the man"

Sound makes the moto!

Ask any HD rider and almost everybody here mentions sound in their critique .

Tempting indeed (and I like Mag grey!)

Amen.

:-)

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Not IF it's true..........It IS true. The W has always been a long stroke 360; both the 650 or the newer 800.

=======

[F-22]

Any 2019 RE has the same build quality of anything the Asian big 4 produced in the 1960/70's

I'd actually argue a 70's Japanese bike had way more quality than most of their disposable bikes of today. Just looking at the basic elements like fasteners, practically all the visible fasteners used to be chrome plated on japanese bikes in those times, and the non-visible were all cadmium plated. Nowadays, that'd be a rare sight, most are just asian standard zinc electroplated fasteners (okay, cadmium is very toxic, but it does a way better job at protecting fasteners than look-at-me-wrong-and-I'll-rust zinc, so the fastener quality was much higher back then).


In the 70's it would be unimaginable to see a japanese bike without a center stand, helmet locks or a useful luggage rack. Today, you can buy these "luxury" things as an OEM extra option or aftermarket (or in some cases not at all). They had all these features in those times as they were taking over the market and had to be overall more practical that European or US bikes.

[bad Chad]

I disagree, at least when it comes to fasteners.   It seemed to me that most were made out of something very much like lead!  Rounding off a screw or nut was practically expected!

[Aaron D.]

Chrome plated fasteners are rusty fastener larvae.

New bikes are using stainless now. At least what I've seen.

[keener]

the fasteners on the 70/80 Japanese bikes were 8.8 grade zinc , some were 12.9 grade , their biggest mistake was they were Philips drive . and they were easy to strip out because the bits used /provided were the wrong drive and it was easy to round them off ...metric drive Philips  are slightly different than SAE drive Philips. The  metric pan head Machine screws  were not marked 8.8 at the time as well .
later on socket drive was adapted by the Japanese  for their fasteners. The quality of the fasteners was generally very good and are the same as current quality bolts on most modern machines.
 chrome plated bolts were used were shine was needed and were usually 8.8 grade .....

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yep. A Yamaha YDS-2? caused me to buy my antique    impact driver when I was a pup.

[steven c]

 On Japanese bikes you should use JIS screw drivers.
https://www.amazon.com/Screwdriver-JISPH1-Japanese-Standard-Screws/dp/B07DPSDQMD/ref=asc_df_B07DPSDQMD/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309807921328&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2288040557037901543&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003228&hvtargid=pla-569775041895&psc=1

[Huzo]

I'm curious about your last thought. XS650 Yamaha guys are spending good bucks to go to a 270 degree crank. Claim is smoother?

Can I have the details regarding a 270 crank ?
From zero degrees, what are the firing INTERVALS, and what would I have heard with the same characteristics ?
I understand that a 360 crank will give an equal number of degrees crank rotation between bangs, like a boxer BMW will sound similar to a parallel twin where the pistons rise and fall together.
Will the bangs come out in a 270 crank engine with the same characteristics as a V twin Guzzi or Duke for example ?
I'm to believe the TRX 850 Yamaha has a 270 crank, and they do sound like a Ducati.

[Chuck in Indiana]

On Japanese bikes you should use JIS screw drivers.
https://www.amazon.com/Screwdriver-JISPH1-Japanese-Standard-Screws/dp/B07DPSDQMD/ref=asc_df_B07DPSDQMD/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309807921328&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2288040557037901543&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9003228&hvtargid=pla-569775041895&psc=1

Yep, I know that now. Back then? Uh, no.

[leafman60]

Can I have the details regarding a 270 crank ?
From zero degrees, what are the firing INTERVALS, and what would I have heard with the same characteristics ?
I understand that a 360 crank will give an equal number of degrees crank rotation between bangs, like a boxer BMW will sound similar to a parallel twin where the pistons rise and fall together.
Will the bangs come out in a 270 crank engine with the same characteristics as a V twin Guzzi or Duke for example ?
I'm to believe the TRX 850 Yamaha has a 270 crank, and they do sound like a Ducati.

You got it right, Huzo.

Firing order for a multi cylinder engine is dependent on when the pistons reach the tops of their compression strokes.  This is determined by the position of the connecting rods on the crankshaft (or crank pin location),  and the angle of the cylinders vis a vis the rotation of the crankshaft.

With a "270 crank," the crank pins are staggered 270 degrees (or conversely 90 degrees) apart.  If both pistons move in parallel, as with a vertical twin, this will stagger the firing order to 90 (or 270) degrees apart.   This will have the same affect on firing order as a single-pin or 360 degree crank turning pistons that move at a 90 degree angle to each other as with a Guzzi or Ducati etc.

These designs tend to increase torque characteristics of the motor but they can also create greater dynamic balancing challenges for a vertical twin.

One of the meanest sounding configurations for me was the 315 degree crank that BMW put in their vertical twin Husqvarna Nuda (just before they sold off the Husky label).  This resulted in a firing order analogous to the 45 degree V Twin a la Harley Davidson Big Twin.

BMW now uses a 270 degree crank in their new 850 vertical twins.  It increases the low end torque characteristics and gives the BMW better low end grunt along with some much-needed sound character.  However, they've balanced out the engine so much that it feels too smooth for my tastes.

.

[F-22]

I disagree, at least when it comes to fasteners.   It seemed to me that most were made out of something very much like lead!  Rounding off a screw or nut was practically expected!

They were 8.8 grade, so rounding it is as easy as any modern 8.8 grade fastener (most common ones are all 8.8), but as someone mentioned, their "phillips" heads were actually a japanese JIS standard and do get rounded with wrong tools (as any fastener). Similarly, while the common DIN and ISO metric standards typically use e.g. a 13mm head for an M8 screw, JIS uses a 12mm head. Or for M10, ISO or DIN is generally 17mm, while JIS uses 14mm. However, modern japanese bikes still use JIS standard fasteners.


Some do use stainless in a few visible places today. But I don't think stainless screws are ever used originally in any aluminium alloy or any critical part, stainless is a very weak type of steel for screws, I think generally on pair with metric 4.0 grade (very weak... though there are types of stainless that are better, but cost 2x as much). Steel screws are generally the strongest fasteners per volume. Even titanium is weaker, I think even weaker than an 8.8 grade steel (and you can get standard 10.9 or 12.9 grade, which are even way stronger). But this is considering a volume limitation (e.g. you can only use a 6mm screw). Of course since titanium is a lot lighter, you can use a dimensionally larger fastener (8mm diameter instead of 6mm) that will be stronger, and still lighter.

[huub]

JIS screws are brilliant from a production point of view, anything from M3 to M6 uses the same size screwdriver bits.
ideal if yu have to set up a production line.
less ideal if you need to remove a stuck M6 screw, especially if you dont have the correct tools.


the old enfield had BSC threads, (26 TPI for all diameters of screws. )
fortunately a thing of the past, enfield uses metric now

[keener]

They were 8.8 grade, so rounding it is as easy as any modern 8.8 grade fastener (most common ones are all 8.8), but as someone mentioned, their "phillips" heads were actually a japanese JIS standard and do get rounded with wrong tools (as any fastener). Similarly, while the common DIN and ISO metric standards typically use e.g. a 13mm head for an M8 screw, JIS uses a 12mm head. Or for M10, ISO or DIN is generally 17mm, while JIS uses 14mm. However, modern japanese bikes still use JIS standard fasteners.


Some do use stainless in a few visible places today. But I don't think stainless screws are ever used originally in any aluminium alloy or any critical part, stainless is a very weak type of steel for screws, I think generally on pair with metric 4.0 grade (very weak... though there are types of stainless that are better, but cost 2x as much). Steel screws are generally the strongest fasteners per volume. Even titanium is weaker, I think even weaker than an 8.8 grade steel (and you can get standard 10.9 or 12.9 grade, which are even way stronger). But this is considering a volume limitation (e.g. you can only use a 6mm screw). Of course since titanium is a lot lighter, you can use a dimensionally larger fastener (8mm diameter instead of 6mm) that will be stronger, and still lighter.

  you know your fasteners  sir

[F-22]

Well, I did put some thought to them
I really dislike when people restore a bike to original condition, and then use some generic fastener because the original is hard to find (e.g. it is popular to replace JIS japanese engine screws with allen screws). I always take old screws for replating, and have a few cans full of JIS standard screws, and even various european ones - Verbus, Ribe or Knipping for when I work on BMW bikes, and OMEL for Italian bikes.

[Bert Remington]

A well-optioned 2015 Continental GT at $2,500 negotiable, below market price. https://forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php/topic,26989.0.html

[Sheepdog]

I learned the trick about the right screwdriver early on. I still have the old wood-handled JIS screwdriver I ordered when I bought my '81 Suzuki GS550M. It has a revered spot in the toolbox...

[hannibal smith]

people buy enfields as toys , and loose interest.
I loved mine , used it as daily transport for years.
once properly fettled they are dead reliable, they will just need more maintenance than a honda.
so  if you like a back road tourer or around town. and dont mind doing some maintenance, go for it ( or buy a nuovo falcone)
if you enjoy highways ,or are in a hurry yours will end up on graigslist too :-)

One of my moto buddies just sold his. I was given first crack, and it was lovely (the red cafe version) but my feelings and his were summed up by the same reasoning you stated. I already have more powerful cafe bikes, so I couldn't justify a "wimpier" version. 

[fossil]

I also saw the Kawasaki W800 CAFE up close and personal, and I am here to tell you that the tank is NOT brown. Photographs of it appear to be brown but it is definitely NOT brown. Kawasaki calls it Metallic Magnesium Gray and the front cowl and side covers are called Galaxy Silver. That works for me. The rider's portion of the seat is brown and the pillion portion is black. It is a jewel of a motorcycle and exhibits excellent fit and finish. It was my favorite of the whole show, and it fit me like a glove. Lovely.



Agree  beauty bike and worth the different in  $$$

I have seen both versions in Hamburg last sunday on the yearly bike show. Somebody may explain to me how such a metallic brown - painted motorcycle cannot be called "brown".

To me the riding position of both version is not good - because of the handle bars. Like a wheelbarrow on the street version, it reminded me of a 1920th Harley, too low on the Cafe Racer. The V85TT however....

[s1120]

Tripped over this wile I was falling down a few Youtube rabbit holes, and thought it was good. Nice seires of vids, and really.... the bike is looking pretty good.

https://youtu.be/saecH0EyfnY


Sorry if its been posted already.

[leafman60]

Tripped over this wile I was falling down a few Youtube rabbit holes, and thought it was good. Nice seires of vids, and really.... the bike is looking pretty good.

https://youtu.be/saecH0EyfnY


Sorry if its been posted already.

That is an excellent 6-part video series!

It not only gives some great first-hand feedback on a new Himalayan making a 3000-mile trip but provides an entertaining advent riding chronicle of the trip.

Makes me seriously consider selling my GS and getting a RE Himalayan.   It cruises easily at 70-75 with a solid and steady ride and it can handle about everything on-road or off.

Looks to have a LOT of character too. I like its traditional look.  It appeals to me more than any other such small cc bikes that I've seen.

.

[s1120]

That is an excellent 6-part video series!

It not only gives some great first-hand feedback on a new Himalayan making a 3000-mile trip but provides an entertaining advent riding chronicle of the trip.

Makes me seriously consider selling my GS and getting a RE Himalayan.   It cruises easily at 70-75 with a solid and steady ride and it can handle about everything on-road or off.

Looks to have a LOT of character too. I like its traditional look.  It appeals to me more than any other such small cc bikes that I've seen.

.

You know I was thinking at first that its pretty small... But then remembered that A)...  I daily rode a old RD400 for about 4 years...  and im 6'3" tall, and 230+lbs....   and B) I really dont go over 70-75MPH anymore anyways....  Really to me thats enough reserve to get out of trouble, and keep safe...   Anyways... i really enjoyed the vids... i was having a rough day yesterday, and bailed on life, and spent a few hours watching them.... Now I want to go to alaska!