Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: tommy2cyl on February 24, 2021, 05:43:55 AM

Title: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: tommy2cyl on February 24, 2021, 05:43:55 AM
Just watched MotoBob's video on the HDPA.  Gotta say I am a little shocked. Specs across the board seem well inline with other offerings from BMW, KTM, Ducati.  Pretty cool design on 3 part frame, VVT,  adaptive suspension, cruise, touch screen, 5 ride modes, etc.  Of course, timing is everything, and it seems the market is moving to middle weight adventure bikes, but there is still a large contingent that like bigger adventure bikes.  HD certainly has the dealer network to support this offering but it will need it's employees to embrace this much better than it did with Buell.  Hopefully lesson learned. The front cowl doesn't offend as much as when I first saw it.  Still not attractive to me, but neither is a lot of KTM insect designs. Gotta give them credit for going their own way.  The responses in the comments section of MotoBob's video seem quite positive. 
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Kev m on February 24, 2021, 06:16:06 AM
~560# and 150 hp - there are a lot of red faces at ADV rider.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Dirk_S on February 24, 2021, 06:36:11 AM
Prefacing the following by noting that I respect Harley for its history, but avoid the brand for its staleness along with the attitude of much of its rider base.

Big kudos deserved to Harley for getting this out there. Looks-wise, at least it's different. I like the looks-- if it's going to be beefy, it might as well LOOK beefy, and it definitely looks like a beefcake. It has a bit of that "don't mess with me" attitude that Harley owners oh so love. For my capabilities and desire, it's much too big and too expensive, but Harley isn't making this for me. Folks who say it's too expensive should look at the other class leaders' prices. Then remember that more and more riders with money are looking to play in the backyard with their toys. I mean, look what Jeep's been for years now. And I know-- "But Harley isn't a class leader". Truth, but such is also the price for American-made. We're an expensive labor force.

The fact that they came up with the suspension lift tech has me saying "Dang Harley, I didn't think you had it in you."

Now. Specs and features aside, we need to see how it actually rides. Video makes it look fun, but I certainly wouldn't want to drop that pricey porker.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: kingoffleece on February 24, 2021, 06:43:56 AM
Wouldn't want to drop any of those 20K plus bikes no matter who made them.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: twowheeladdict on February 24, 2021, 06:45:44 AM
~560# and 150 hp - there are a lot of red faces at ADV rider.

 :thumb:

But many are still taking a wait and see.

I read "on paper" a lot.

There are guys on the Road Glide forum who have already reserved one.  We think with the fixed fairing we may informally make it part of the shark nose family.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Kev m on February 24, 2021, 06:45:58 AM
Oh, and hydraulic lifters - no valve checks!

Not only does it have tubeless spoke wheels, but the spokes can be replaced without breaking down the wheel.

This type of bike (even just a WC motor) is not my cuppa jo, but I have to say there's a lot to like about it.

I really hope it does well and opens the door for Harley to FINALLY branch out. Other bikes built around this modular motor as stressed member platform would be a nice addition to Harley's old world bikes.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: lucian on February 24, 2021, 06:47:22 AM
And a face only a mother could love


(https://i.ibb.co/XCfBdpR/images.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XCfBdpR)
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Dirk_S on February 24, 2021, 06:51:21 AM
And a face only a mother could love


(https://i.ibb.co/XCfBdpR/images.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XCfBdpR)


Maybe they're echoing the 'dog owner looks like its dog' adage. Statistically speaking, Americans aren't known for being svelte of face  :grin:
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: twowheeladdict on February 24, 2021, 06:51:45 AM
Owners manual is online and service intervals look good.  Pretty much just oil changes and inspections.

I could see replacing my Road Glide with this one day when it has proven itself to the world. 
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: twowheeladdict on February 24, 2021, 06:54:04 AM
And a face only a mother could love


(https://i.ibb.co/XCfBdpR/images.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XCfBdpR)


You could say that about most adventure bike designs.  The V85TT is the exception.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Kev m on February 24, 2021, 07:00:20 AM
You could say that about all adventure bike designs.  The V85TT isn't really an exception.

I fixed that for you.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on February 24, 2021, 07:03:39 AM
And a face only a mother could love


(https://i.ibb.co/XCfBdpR/images.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XCfBdpR)


Ugly bike for sure, it gives me vibes like when people buy a dual sport and put a big white Acerbis tank on it that doesnt match the rest of the bike... But it comes like that from the factory?
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on February 24, 2021, 07:04:46 AM
Alternatively, it looks like this on wheels!

(https://www.enasco.com/medias/9730495-main-530Wx530H?context=bWFzdGVyfHJvb3R8Mzk0Nzd8aW1hZ2UvanBlZ3xoMDMvaDU2Lzg4MzE5OTE0NDc1ODIuanBnfDUzOWI3ZGVkZjFjYjlhZjkwYzQ0ODg5YTdjODI3OTVkYTI4Mjc1OGQwNTRlYTg4OTA1ZGQwY2E5ZDg3N2UxMjE)
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: twowheeladdict on February 24, 2021, 07:12:12 AM
I fixed that for you.

LOL!
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: twowheeladdict on February 24, 2021, 07:20:33 AM
Most of the non "Harley Haters". find their cruiser's looks appealing. 

Personally, I'll take performance over looks.  Function over form. 

When that bike brings you to an amazing Vista that few see in person the looks will grow on you.

Also, in my experience, in person, and views on the screen can differ.

Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: lucian on February 24, 2021, 07:27:00 AM
I fixed that for you.

Yeh ,  that was good.  Another day started out with a laugh, thanks Kev.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: JJ on February 24, 2021, 07:32:58 AM
And a face only a mother could love


(https://i.ibb.co/XCfBdpR/images.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XCfBdpR)


560 pounds?!? :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh:

Imagine dropping this over on it's side on some remote mountain trail?!?  YIKES!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Dave Swanson on February 24, 2021, 07:50:11 AM
I like the Pan American a lot, and I hope Harley sells a s$#@ ton of them! 

My riding buddy who owns a Triumph X1200E Scrambler wants me to sell my Milwaukee Road Sofa and buy one.   :laugh:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vByrgQH5/IMG-3223.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p90h3Mjd)
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Dirk_S on February 24, 2021, 07:51:42 AM
560 pounds?!? :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh:

Imagine dropping this over on it's side on some remote mountain trail?!?  YIKES!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Very true, but I suspect only folks like Bret Tkacs and his YouTube followers would be attempting that. Weight-wise, itís right there with the 1250 GS ó if not a little lighter and a little more powerful. more of a world adventurer a la McGregor/Boorman than a backwoods adventurer.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Dirk_S on February 24, 2021, 07:53:47 AM
Alternatively, it looks like this on wheels!

(https://www.enasco.com/medias/9730495-main-530Wx530H?context=bWFzdGVyfHJvb3R8Mzk0Nzd8aW1hZ2UvanBlZ3xoMDMvaDU2Lzg4MzE5OTE0NDc1ODIuanBnfDUzOWI3ZGVkZjFjYjlhZjkwYzQ0ODg5YTdjODI3OTVkYTI4Mjc1OGQwNTRlYTg4OTA1ZGQwY2E5ZDg3N2UxMjE)

The prototype that erased the competition.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: tommy2cyl on February 24, 2021, 07:58:30 AM
I think the bike looks better in all black.  The irony is it costs extra to get the white/orange combo which just assaults my sensibilities.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 24, 2021, 08:00:00 AM
It could be uglier.







Somehow.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Kev m on February 24, 2021, 08:09:29 AM
560 pounds?!? :rolleyes: :shocked: :huh:

Imagine dropping this over on it's side on some remote mountain trail?!?  YIKES!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

As opposed to ever other ADV bike in that 1200ccish segment?

These are all ADV touring bikes, not remote mountain trail bikes (though some people will do that too).

I will never forget the time that at the Damn Yankee Beemer Rally (Goose being the invited redheaded stepchild) when the off-road handling competition started and the one guy attempted to jump his R1200GS over some obstacles only to crash FULL ON into/through a porta-potty. Best thing ever!
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: blackcat on February 24, 2021, 08:33:11 AM
It's not a bad looking bike from the side and of course it's just as ugly from the front as the first GS but I'm guessing those lights are probably quite substantial on the PA.

(https://www.harley-davidson.com/content/dam/h-d/images/product-images/bikes/motorcycle/2021/2021-pan-america-1250-special/gallery/2021-pan-america-1250-special-g2.jpg?impolicy=myresize&rw=820)

The HD paint is only an extra $325 bucks, but the lowering option will cost another $1,000 bucks.  Consider it a deal compared to having to get it serviced for valve adjustments.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: BrotherJim on February 24, 2021, 08:33:56 AM
CW "First Look" review and comments are mostly positive.  I'm not a $20K motorcycle kind of guy, and I've already got some "eye of the beholder" bikes.  I'd certainly love to ride one and hope that this machine can breathe some life into The Motor Company.  If it does, we will more than likely see some of the other offerings like the Bronx, Tracker and possible Sporty replacement.  I wish them luck!
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: bettythebear on February 24, 2021, 08:47:26 AM
I'm not a potential customer for it (considering I've decided I don't need a Stelvio sized bike anymore), but I think it is a pretty awesome offering. The only downside is the chain, lol. I actually think that having the option for both spoked and alloy wheels is an excellent choice. Do paved touring only? Just go for the alloys, easy peasy.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: guzzisteve on February 24, 2021, 08:48:02 AM
Fairing looks like a tractor fender.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Kev m on February 24, 2021, 08:55:09 AM
The HD paint is only an extra $325 bucks, but the lowering option will cost another $1,000 bucks.  Consider it a deal compared to having to get it serviced for valve adjustments.

Unless you meant that as to say "compared to models from other OEMs that require valve adjustments" (as I can read your sentence either way, depending on context).

But just in case to be clear, again, NO VALVE ADJUSTMENTS - Hydraulic roller lifters.

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/bikes/2021-harley-davidson-pan-america-1250-first-look/

"Because this is a Harley-Davidson, it cannot have valve noise or require valve adjustments (service interval is 5,000 miles). Therefore its roller finger cam followers have hydraulic clearance adjusters. Cams are chain-driven."
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Rough Edge racing on February 24, 2021, 08:59:51 AM
 what everyone needs, another 560 pound  backroad touring bike that looks like a  jukebox...But the engine specs are a revelation for Harley..
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: hauto on February 24, 2021, 09:10:01 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/g7DVf9c/headlight.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g7DVf9c)

This is what it reminds me of.Hope it sells for them. That swing arm looks sooo long.Must have one beefy spring or some big loads on the linkage. Like to see how the suspension lowering system works.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: blackcat on February 24, 2021, 09:18:45 AM
Unless you meant that as to say "compared to models from other OEMs that require valve adjustments" (as I can read your sentence either way, depending on context).

But just in case to be clear, again, NO VALVE ADJUSTMENTS - Hydraulic roller lifters.



Yes, no valve adjustments.

From what I understand about the lowering option, it will drop 1" to 2" at a light,etc. and rise up as you proceed.  Smart option, I'm betting we will see this with other manufacturers in the future.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: twowheeladdict on February 24, 2021, 09:22:40 AM
It's not the bike.  It's the rider.

I'd like to see what this guy could do on one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BoKRgfh_3s&feature=emb_imp_woyt
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Solorider73 on February 24, 2021, 09:29:33 AM
I was pleasantly surprised with how well on paper this bike competes and suspect it will be a success. The final opinion always depends on how well it actually handles, but it doesnít appear they cut corners anywhere obvious. Iím hoping that it sells well and provides Harley with opportunities outside of cruisers.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: actwin on February 24, 2021, 09:34:32 AM
 I don't think it will sell. Harley management will screw some thing up for one thing, just look what happened with the 500 and 750.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Kev m on February 24, 2021, 09:42:07 AM
I don't think it will sell. Harley management will screw some thing up for one thing, just look what happened with the 500 and 750.

I hope you're wrong, but the 500/700 were VERY different from this. They were unremarkable spec wise, and incredibly cheap (especially in the peripherals, ergos, controls).

And times are different than say the Buell or Vrod Era. Not to mention this seems more competitive and better thought out than the Vrod.

But we'll see. They have managed to screw up a good thing before. 
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Ncdan on February 24, 2021, 09:48:06 AM
Lol, thanks Dirk, you baled me out on that one😂👍
Private joke between Dirk and I🤔
Now thatís out of the way🤔
I can only speak from the perspective of not having any first hand experience with the HD duel purpose bike or any other type motorcycle, I can only rely of common sense and past riding experience.
In younger days I spent a lot of time trail riding and I simply canít see a 5-6 hundred pound motorcycle be taken where and how we rode. Nor can I see this bike replacing a TOURING type bike. Iíll admit either aspect of riding can be accomplished on these bikes depending on the riders experience, physical capacity and determination to MAKE it work.
I had a FISH AND SKI boat one time and I must say wasnít very good at either, although I did fish and ski with it.
Would I buy the HD? At some point, possibly, as the size and weight could be a factor for a short distance touring bike with the proper attire.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: twowheeladdict on February 24, 2021, 09:55:23 AM
I don't think it will sell. Harley management will screw some thing up for one thing, just look what happened with the 500 and 750.

For me it was the ergonomics on those bikes that just didn't work. 
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: usedtobefast on February 24, 2021, 10:49:09 AM
I like this new Harley!  I am considering buying one.  Seems to be $4000-$5000 less than a comparable BMW or Ducati.  It might replace my Quota.  :laugh:

I would use it mostly for crappy back roads riding where having ADV type suspension is very nice.  As for dirt, most I would do is the trip off the pavement to get to a camp site type of thing.  Also the ADV style bikes are easier on my worn out knees.

I'm wondering if they are a big hit if Harley will up the MSRP for the next year model.  Like first year the Special is $19,995, will that go up $1k-$2K next year?

Thinking of putting down a deposit just to get in the "I want one" queue and then figure it out after a test ride. 

And I actually like the way it looks!  Kind of tuff and chunky.

Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Ncdan on February 24, 2021, 11:26:07 AM
I don't think it will sell. Harley management will screw some thing up for one thing, just look what happened with the 500 and 750.
Not sure I agree Sir. When you look at the percentages that HD has among all the brands, within that percentage it would be reasonable to speculate a certain percentage of those people would be interested in this new kick with the ď Duel purpose or Adventure bikeĒ bikes, possibly?
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Rough Edge racing on February 24, 2021, 11:37:47 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/g7DVf9c/headlight.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g7DVf9c)

This is what it reminds me of.Hope it sells for them. That swing arm looks sooo long.Must have one beefy spring or some big loads on the linkage. Like to see how the suspension lowering system works.
  "Klaatu barada nikto" 
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: steven c on February 24, 2021, 12:02:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF3pBM4eViE
 Well done promo film for the bike and some nice vintage Harley off road footage, some how they left out Buell as part of their off road History, saying the PanAM is the first American adventure bike.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: twowheeladdict on February 24, 2021, 01:25:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF3pBM4eViE
 Well done promo film for the bike and some nice vintage Harley off road footage, some how they left out Buell as part of their off road History, saying the PanAM is the first American adventure bike.

Was the Buell advertised as an adventure bike? 

Maybe they aren't allowed to mention Buell for legal reasons.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: oldbike54 on February 24, 2021, 01:57:58 PM
 Look fellas , I've had a couple of ugly motorbikes , but this this is beyond ugly . GACK  :laugh:

 Dusty
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: kingoffleece on February 24, 2021, 02:24:47 PM
And I quote Jack Nicholson, "Never rub another man's rhubarb!"
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Shorty on February 24, 2021, 04:06:29 PM
I liked the promo film. Having Jason Mamoa as an advocate can't hurt. Looks the MOCO has the beginning of a whole new line of bikes. I wish them well. They were smart enough to move on beyond the assless chaps and dewrag crowd. (without kicking them to the curb)  Maybe the whole motorcycling community will follow suit...  :azn:
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: steven c on February 24, 2021, 04:42:37 PM
Was the Buell advertised as an adventure bike? 

Maybe they aren't allowed to mention Buell for legal reasons.
If I remember they sold it as an "all roads bike". I would guess since they sold the rights to the Buell name (I think HD owned it) they don't want to mention  Buell.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: fotoguzzi on February 24, 2021, 05:16:12 PM
That's the ugliest fairing/ headlight anywhere on or off road. And it sounds like a Honda.. or Singer.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: LowRyter on February 24, 2021, 06:00:09 PM
I'd like to take a test ride. 
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Turin on February 24, 2021, 07:57:17 PM
Not as pretty as my quota, but I like it. maybe I'll look for a second hand PA in a few years. :laugh:
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Canuck750 on February 24, 2021, 07:57:53 PM
I tip my hat to HD for branching out and taking on the crowded big adventure bike market, but for an unproven design and new to the segment I think they have missed the boat on price. I don't think the class leaders need to worry to much about the Pan America.

HD Pan America - 534 ~ 560 lbs wet / 150 hp / $17,319 base ~ $19,999 special

BMW R1250 GS  - 591 lbs wet / 136 hp / $17,995 base

KTM 1290 Adventure R - 530 lbs wet / 160 hp  / $18,599 base

Honda Africa Twin Sport ES - 501 lbs wet / 100 hp / $14,399 base

I just don't get the big heavy adventure bikes, they are all pretty limited to pavement and packed gravel for most riders capabilities, it takes a very strong and fit man to handle a 550 lb cycle in the sand or dirt and most of these get loaded up with another 50 ~ 75 lbs of luggage. I have witnessed how poorly the big bikes handle on the sloppy and loose stuff.



Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Ncdan on February 24, 2021, 08:00:28 PM
I road by the dealership today, 70degrees, and they said it would be May before they got their first one in. They ask for my number saying they would call me but I declined the offer.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Shorty on February 24, 2021, 08:08:58 PM
I think 2 things are key:   1)   HD is acknowledging there are more than one type of rider. That could be huge down the road. As mentioned, change of attitude at the dealership level is needed.

2)  That engine could find its way into some pretty cool new bikes. Maybe put the "Sport" back in "Sportster."   :thumb:
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: kingoffleece on February 24, 2021, 08:09:40 PM
I'll wager only 10% of GS's are sold in the basic spec.  I've NEVER seen a stripper bike at a dealership-and I've been to 3 large dealers with friends who drink that kool aid.  They are ALL optioned.  Yes, I'm aware someone has seen that grail-I never have.  And kudos to H-D for a different look-if it was the same as the rest the comments against would be the same except they would be "oh look, they can't even make it look different.  They COPIED, those bums!"


wait-that's different, er, the same but different,.er, I'm confused.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Kev m on February 24, 2021, 09:08:42 PM
I tip my hat to HD for branching out and taking on the crowded big adventure bike market, but for an unproven design and new to the segment I think they have missed the boat on price. I don't think the class leaders need to worry to much about the Pan America.

HD Pan America - 534 ~ 560 lbs wet / 150 hp / $20,999 base ~ $24,199 special

BMW R1250 GS  - 591 lbs wet / 136 hp / $17,995 base

KTM 1290 Adventure R - 530 lbs wet / 160 hp  / $18,599 base

Honda Africa Twin Sport ES - 501 lbs wet / 100 hp / $14,399 base
.

Those are Canadian prices I gather as the HD is lower here . I've heard other US riders proclaim the price point as competitive, though I haven't cared to check the competition myself.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: twowheeladdict on February 24, 2021, 09:11:47 PM
I tip my hat to HD for branching out and taking on the crowded big adventure bike market, but for an unproven design and new to the segment I think they have missed the boat on price. I don't think the class leaders need to worry to much about the Pan America.

HD Pan America - 534 ~ 560 lbs wet / 150 hp / $20,999 base ~ $24,199 special

BMW R1250 GS  - 591 lbs wet / 136 hp / $17,995 base

KTM 1290 Adventure R - 530 lbs wet / 160 hp  / $18,599 base

Honda Africa Twin Sport ES - 501 lbs wet / 100 hp / $14,399 base

I just don't get the big heavy adventure bikes, they are all pretty limited to pavement and packed gravel for most riders capabilities, it takes a very strong and fit man to handle a 550 lb cycle in the sand or dirt and most of these get loaded up with another 50 ~ 75 lbs of luggage. I have witnessed how poorly the big bikes handle on the sloppy and loose stuff.

Is that Canadian pricing?  You all have tariffs on Harley?  Price is lower in the states.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: timonbik on February 24, 2021, 09:14:41 PM
Yes those are the HD Cdn prices.  Yes, competitively priced until you really look at all the add ons.   Freight $500?,  $350 for colours, $500 for spoked tubless rims, $1000 for the ride lowering option.    Starting to get a little pricey now for an unproven bike.  Base model looks reasonably priced until you see what is missing.  It has a plastic skid plate, no hand protectors or heated grips, cast wheels, no center stand and the list goes on!!!
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: twowheeladdict on February 24, 2021, 09:19:05 PM
I think 2 things are key:   1)   HD is acknowledging there are more than one type of rider. That could be huge down the road. As mentioned, change of attitude at the dealership level is needed.

2)  That engine could find its way into some pretty cool new bikes. Maybe put the "Sport" back in "Sportster."   :thumb:

How many dealerships have you been in during the last 5 years?  I have nothing but good experiences at the dealerships. What is this attitude you talk of?  Sometimes what you give is what you get. :wink:
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: timonbik on February 24, 2021, 09:27:11 PM
How many dealerships have you been in during the last 5 years?  I have nothing but good experiences at the dealerships. What is this attitude you talk of?  Sometimes what you give is what you get. :wink:

Will they even stock them or will they be banished to the back corner of the shop like the Buells were.   I find it funny that HD in their lead up spiel stated that the Pan American was the first American made adventure bike.  Heck they don't even recognize their own history.  Me thinks the Buell Ulysses was actually a pretty decent adventure bike.  Not the best but it was competent.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: twowheeladdict on February 24, 2021, 09:37:04 PM
Will they even stock them or will they be banished to the back corner of the shop like the Buells were.   I find it funny that HD in their lead up spiel stated that the Pan American was the first American made adventure bike.  Heck they don't even recognize their own history.  Me thinks the Buell Ulysses was actually a pretty decent adventure bike.  Not the best but it was competent.

You are making statements like every dealer is the same.  The local dealer here had the Buells in the front window area.  You had to walk through or around them to get to the Harleys.  I didn't know anything about them when I stopped in wearing my off road riding gear, and a salesman came up and told me all about their unique features.  The only reason I could see a dealer relegating them to a corner would be because there was no profit in selling, or customers didn't want them.  You make it sound like the person who needs to sell bikes to make a living was being spiteful to Harley.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Canuck750 on February 24, 2021, 09:48:47 PM
Woops, I had CDN prices for the HD - lets fix that!


I tip my hat to HD for branching out and taking on the crowded big adventure bike market, but for an unproven design and new to the segment I think they have missed the boat on price. I don't think the class leaders need to worry to much about the Pan America.

HD Pan America - 534 ~ 560 lbs wet / 150 hp / $ 17,319 $20,999 base ~ $19,999 $24,199 special

BMW R1250 GS  - 591 lbs wet / 136 hp / $17,995 base

KTM 1290 Adventure R - 530 lbs wet / 160 hp  / $18,599 base

Honda Africa Twin Sport ES - 501 lbs wet / 100 hp / $14,399 base

I just don't get the big heavy adventure bikes, they are all pretty limited to pavement and packed gravel for most riders capabilities, it takes a very strong and fit man to handle a 550 lb cycle in the sand or dirt and most of these get loaded up with another 50 ~ 75 lbs of luggage. I have witnessed how poorly the big bikes handle on the sloppy and loose stuff.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: kingoffleece on February 24, 2021, 09:54:14 PM
Don't be surprised at the low "stripper" spec bike.  They do the same thing with the GS.  The delux will outsell the stripper by 10 to 1.  Watch.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Canuck750 on February 24, 2021, 10:04:40 PM
Don't be surprised at the low "stripper" spec bike.  They do the same thing with the GS.  The delux will outsell the stripper by 10 to 1.  Watch.

Absolutley!

then the buyer adds another couple thousand of Touratech accessories on to the full spec bike. The GS boys seem to like lots of farkle on their rides. I used to work with an engineer that had plenty of gadgets on his GS and wore the full BMW multi colour riding gear for his trips around town, usualy to head to the coffee shop. As far as I know he had never taken the bike off pavement or far from home.

Ewan and Charlie have really poured the KoolAid into a few cups.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: DaveJT on February 24, 2021, 11:34:56 PM
And a face only a mother could love


(https://i.ibb.co/XCfBdpR/images.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XCfBdpR)


I loved it in Robocop 2
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: TimmyTheHog on February 25, 2021, 11:19:34 AM

<SNIP>
BMW R1250 GS  - 591 lbs wet / 136 hp / $17,995 base
</SNIP>

Where you find a GS that cheap? base price around Vancouver are 22K start before anything else.

Either way, still priced up there lol...

Never mind, saw your other prices are in US lol...
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: bad Chad on February 25, 2021, 11:23:16 AM
US base price 2021 R 1250 GS
From $17,995
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Seventy One on February 25, 2021, 12:09:46 PM
I tip my hat to HD for branching out and taking on the crowded big adventure bike market, but for an unproven design and new to the segment I think they have missed the boat on price. I don't think the class leaders need to worry to much about the Pan America.

HD Pan America - 534 ~ 560 lbs wet / 150 hp / $20,999 base ~ $24,199 special

BMW R1250 GS  - 591 lbs wet / 136 hp / $17,995 base

KTM 1290 Adventure R - 530 lbs wet / 160 hp  / $18,599 base

Honda Africa Twin Sport ES - 501 lbs wet / 100 hp / $14,399 base

I just don't get the big heavy adventure bikes, they are all pretty limited to pavement and packed gravel for most riders capabilities, it takes a very strong and fit man to handle a 550 lb cycle in the sand or dirt and most of these get loaded up with another 50 ~ 75 lbs of luggage. I have witnessed how poorly the big bikes handle on the sloppy and loose stuff.

Agreed 100%. Even my 800XC was a handful off-road and that was listed at 474lbs. I know that bike was well over 550lbs with all my accessories, gear and luggage on it. The other problem I had is that 500lbs + 100hp + knobbies = $$$.

I imagine 560lbs + 150hp will be much, much worse. 

These heavy weight Adventure Touring bikes are just fine with street rubber and maintained gravel. The problems begin when you spoon some knobbies on 'em and try to take 'em off-road. Tip overs on my 800XC generally resulted in flattened crash bars, busted hand guards, gouged cases and bent levers. These are NOT dual sport bikes.

That being said, I would consider the base model Pan American. It's just a few thousand more than a V-Strom 1050XT and it doesn't need the spendy valve checks.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Ncdan on February 25, 2021, 01:57:56 PM
Agreed 100%. Even my 800XC was a handful off-road and that was listed at 474lbs. I know that bike was well over 550lbs with all my accessories, gear and luggage on it. The other problem I had is that 500lbs + 100hp + knobbies = $$$.

I imagine 560lbs + 150hp will be much, much worse. 

These heavy weight Adventure Touring bikes are just fine with street rubber and maintained gravel. The problems begin when you spoon some knobbies on 'em and try to take 'em off-road. Tip overs on my 800XC generally resulted in flattened crash bars, busted hand guards, gouged cases and bent levers. These are NOT dual sport bikes.

That being said, I would consider the base model Pan American. It's just a few thousand more than a V-Strom 1050XT and it doesn't need the spendy valve checks.
I agree 100% as Iíve attempted to make this point on several occasions, as this subject has raised its head several times. I know these bikes a popular, even here with our MG family. The elephant in the room is that these, luggage and loaded Behemoths weighing in at 600 pounds + are at best dirt road capable motorcycles. Any experienced rider with the physical capabilities can ride their street bike in the majority of places the duel sport can be ridden.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Canuck750 on February 25, 2021, 02:08:32 PM
I agree 100% as Iíve attempted to make this point on several occasions, as this subject has raised its head several times. I know these bikes a popular, even here with our MG family. The elephant in the room is that these, luggage and loaded Behemoths weighing in at 600 pounds + are at best dirt road capable motorcycles. Any experienced rider with the physical capabilities can ride their street bike in the majority of places the duel sport can be ridden.

Remember when the press panned the GL1000 (1st gen) as being a very heavy motorcycle, it reportedly weighed 584 lbs dry. I would take the GL1000 with its super smooth motor and low center of gravity on most of the gravel roads these big 'Adventure' bikes would be limited to travelling.
Years ago I heard a Canadian took his GS1150 Beemer down to the bottom of the copper canyon in Mexico and couldn't ride the thing out, he had to get locals to load it onto a trailer to get back out. One can get into a lot of trouble quick with an overweight motorcycle in the wrong conditions.
I use to think hauling a 220 lb enduro out of the mud was hard, and that was 40 years ago!

My 1st Adventure bike, ok it wasn't technicaly street legal but it did see the odd bit of asphalt, mostly dirt trails, wish I was twenty one again, even for a day to be able to ride one of these again in their element. A 175 seemed like a big enough bike back then, we thought a 500 enduro was a useless whale.

(https://i.postimg.cc/bJNNgkmR/SUZUKI-PE-175-14439-1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: timonbik on February 25, 2021, 03:39:43 PM
I think HD would have wiser to make a 750 version of the Pan America.  Take a Street Rod engine, tweek it for a little more grunt and make a 750 that comes in around 450 pounds.   I think HD has entered another dying market.   Riders are looking for lighter alternatives to the big ADV bikes.  If I wanted big and heavy I'd certainly select the BMW over the Pan America but a midweight ADV bike would be of more interest to me.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Darren Williams on February 25, 2021, 06:10:40 PM
Obviously this isn't the bike for some of you. Would I take one where I play on my WR250, no. But that's not what these bikes are designed for. I've taken my Stelvio (600+ lbs) and my R1200GS places my street bikes couldn't go due to ground clearance, not to mention suspension travel limitations. And I enjoyed both of those bikes on the Ozark curves just fine. Would they keep up with my CBR600RR, no, but I think I could come close to matching the pace of my Griso on either of them.

If I was in the market to replace my GS, I would definitely consider one. Looks like HD got the specs right, and price point is in the ballpark. Kudos to HD for coming up with this bike!   :bow:
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: timmythecop on February 25, 2021, 06:16:20 PM

HD Pan America - 534 ~ 560 lbs wet / 150 hp / $20,999 base ~ $24,199 special

BMW R1250 GS  - 591 lbs wet / 136 hp / $17,995 base

KTM 1290 Adventure R - 530 lbs wet / 160 hp  / $18,599 base

Honda Africa Twin Sport ES - 501 lbs wet / 100 hp / $14,399 base

Your facts are not correct. The Pan America base is 17,300 and the special is 19,999.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: kingoffleece on February 25, 2021, 06:29:59 PM
Does anybody know anyone who owns a BASE GS?  I'm a member of a large active BMW club and nobody has a base model.  Nor when my buddy was a BMW bike dealer did he ever have a base bike on the floor.

If and when I move west and think about that kind of bike it'll be a Guzzi but I'd get the H-D over a BMW every time if it's even remotely capable.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Darren Williams on February 25, 2021, 06:36:48 PM
Does anybody know anyone who owns a BASE GS?  I'm a member of a large active BMW club and nobody has a base model.  Nor when my buddy was a BMW bike dealer did he ever have a base bike on the floor.

If and when I move west and think about that kind of bike it'll be a Guzzi but I'd get the H-D over a BMW every time if it's even remotely capable.

Mine is the "base" model, if by that you mean not a GSA. I do have the crash protection and full set of Vario cases.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Canuck750 on February 25, 2021, 06:50:25 PM
Your facts are not correct. The Pan America base is 17,300 and the special is 19,999.

Refer to my corrections further down, I had mistakenly shown the Canadian MSRP for the Harley.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: usedtobefast on February 25, 2021, 06:53:36 PM
I think they are going to be a big hit and sell like crazy.  Guys in a local forum are putting down deposits (like 4 people already).

Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: kingoffleece on February 25, 2021, 08:36:04 PM
Darren,
You're the first I know of.  Bet it's Very few and far between.  My regional rep friend says almost nobody orders one.  In the North East, dealers for a time needed to order a stripper bike from Germany as the Easton warehouse stocked exactly zero  base bikes.  They don't really WANT  to  sell them that way.

And base does not mean GS as opposed to GSA.  It means bare bones with none of the packages BMW offers.  Like several autos, the buyer needs to add several option packages to get  the features they want.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Scout63 on February 25, 2021, 09:27:10 PM
I like the Pan American a lot, and I hope Harley sells a s$#@ ton of them! 

My riding buddy who owns a Triumph X1200E Scrambler wants me to sell my Milwaukee Road Sofa and buy one.   :laugh:

(https://i.postimg.cc/vByrgQH5/IMG-3223.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p90h3Mjd)

That picture makes me want to buy a Harley Dave.  Iíll read up on the PA but the picture posted makes it look like a Rokon.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: timonbik on February 25, 2021, 09:29:43 PM
That picture makes me want to buy a Harley Dave.  Iíll read up on the PA but the picture posted makes it look like a Rokon.

Careful, you are insulting the Rokon!!!
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: jas67 on February 25, 2021, 09:37:47 PM
The price and specs vs. the competition are definitely encouraging, especially given the lack of need for valve adjustments.

I'm not a big ADV bike kind of guy, and was really eager for the now cancelled "Bronx" model to hit the showroom floors.

Maybe if the Pan America does well, they'll revive the Bronx.   That is a model I'd definitely consider buying.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: kingoffleece on February 25, 2021, 09:53:06 PM
The PanAm looks much better in person.  Not nearly as unbalanced as in a 2D picture.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: skippy on February 25, 2021, 10:32:17 PM
Jump-in Jesus on a Pogo stick! This machine appears to be the real deal. I had know idea Harley-Davidson had it in them to build such a bike. I just watched several of the gleaming Youtube intro's to this with all of the specs and such and ,wow! this is such a huge departure from the norm of Milwaukee I honestly didn't think it would come to fruition at this level.
I know this is a Guzzi board but damn! the apropos that needs to be heaped upon H-D are rightly deserved.
This makes me wonder about the likelihood of liquid cooling as the natural progression/evolution of the small block platform. I mean, with the basic architecture of the motor being the same, what is the potential of a liquid cooled top-end? 1000 cc's? 1150? What kind of grunt and power?
I, for one, don't insist on keeping to the air-cooled lineage as a absolute given. Water cooled heads and or cylinders can be given the air cooled look and do in fact contribute to the total cooling of the motor. But I digress, Harley didn't even to pretend to bring the artificial look of air cooling to the table on this one.
Truth be told, it is a rather ugly bike butt you wouldn't know it from the saddle. Even I can admit the Jackle, Stone , Aluminum... bikes where ugly as f@#$ in my eyes when they came out but I bought one anyway because they rode and handled so damn well.

Skippy         
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Gappy on February 26, 2021, 12:13:53 AM
I think the Pan-Am is a brilliant piece of engineering . It utilizes a few  proven design concepts used by other bike manufacturers that is not seen in any HD made to date. The engine being a part of the frame comes to mind. Looking at the engine- transmission is what really jazzes me. Dual downdraft throttle bodies, variable valve timing, overhead cam V twin water cooled, with 150 hp. The clutch pack looks accessible in minutes. When used off road, adventure bikes eat clutches. First generation oil head GS clutch replacement was about 10 hrs at a shop.very expensive. Through redesign of the transmission bmw moved the clutched to the front of the engine making it serviceable on the road in about 3hrs, thatís if you can find a bmw shop for parts. HD is everywhere. GS suspension is very good but very high, a lot of people order the lowered model. Pan-Am lowers itself, I have an idea on how they do it but will see when I get a first hand look at the bike. Some of you have called the Pan-Am ugly, well the GS is no beauty queen either. If I owned one I think I would take a saw and cut that beak off to begin with.

A couple of things come to mind on the popularity of the Adventure touring bike. BMW got their aging riders who road the heavy K bikes to try GS. It is powerful, lighter weight, comfortable, awesome suspension, and very dependable. They could keep riding for a few more years in stead of giving up riding all together. Great marketing to tap into an already loyal customer base. Younger people understood its capabilities and now itís probably BMWís most popular bike. The other metrics bike makers have been offering the same. I have noticed on a couple of HD forums, lighter bike topics will come up. Harley owners are loyal to the badge, for the most part. I see Harley trying to tap into their customer base as well as get a new generation of riders. I think Pan-Am is a winner. All motorcycles have an Achilles heel. We will have to wait to see what Pan-AMís is.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: twowheeladdict on February 26, 2021, 07:19:25 AM
Has anyone found any information on who the chief designer and chief engineer are for this bike?  I'm wondering if they found people with prior adventure bike experience or if they studied everyone else's designs and thought, "I can improve on this."

Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: steven c on February 26, 2021, 08:02:44 AM
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/bikes/2021-harley-davidson-pan-america-1250-first-look/?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=email&tp=i-1NGB-Et-TXR-1GojJU-1c-7caE-1c-1GowQF-l5kdgQdc08-3qScJ
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Vagrant on February 26, 2021, 09:21:52 AM
Re,, Bmw it's been clearly stated in the rags that they don't bring in the base units! I just gave up when a few years back I looked at one and they told me I had to buy the pre wired Gps package for something like $500. and that was w,o the gps! BS!
The most important thing is Hd has finally fired a real shot at the other Mfgs by proving you can use hydraulic lifters on a 9000 RPM bike! Then they gave it Vvt to boot. No more $1000 low mileage service bills.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: ohiorider on February 26, 2021, 09:32:02 AM
Oh, and hydraulic lifters - no valve checks!

Not only does it have tubeless spoke wheels, but the spokes can be replaced without breaking down the wheel.

This type of bike (even just a WC motor) is not my cuppa jo, but I have to say there's a lot to like about it.

I really hope it does well and opens the door for Harley to FINALLY branch out. Other bikes built around this modular motor as stressed member platform would be a nice addition to Harley's old world bikes.
The old is forever new!  My 1991 R100GS is equipped with tubeless spoke wheels made by Akront (Spain, I think.)  I believe if one had the misfortune to hit anything hard enough to break a spoke, it can be replaced without removing the tire from the rim.  I think these rims showed up on the US models in 1988.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: timonbik on February 26, 2021, 09:42:43 AM
The old is forever new!  My 1991 R100GS is equipped with tubeless spoke wheels made by Akront (Spain, I think.)  I believe if one had the misfortune to hit anything hard enough to break a spoke, it can be replaced without removing the tire from the rim.  I think these rims showed up on the US models in 1988.
Those tubeless spoke wheels on the Pan America will run you $500 even on the high specked  model.   I understand they are a $2000 option on the base.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Bulldog9 on February 26, 2021, 04:51:46 PM
I must have checked the 'contact me I'm interested' box somewhere along the way on this bike because today I received phone call from a charming young woman at a dealership in Tennessee asking me how she could help in my purchase of the Pan American. I told her that I currently lived in Virginia but for a $5,000 discount would give her a deposit right now and drive down and buy one tomorrow :-) She laughed...I laughed... then we both hung up.

I wish Harley the best on this model and hope it is a great success. However, every time I look at it I'm expecting it to transform into a robot or something.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: kingoffleece on February 26, 2021, 05:04:26 PM
And I quote Edna Moulds, "................tha t's a new feature............ ...."
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Bulldog9 on February 26, 2021, 05:19:53 PM
I tip my hat to HD for branching out and taking on the crowded big adventure bike market, but for an unproven design and new to the segment I think they have missed the boat on price. I don't think the class leaders need to worry to much about the Pan America.

HD Pan America - 534 ~ 560 lbs wet / 150 hp / $20,999 base ~ $24,199 special

BMW R1250 GS  - 591 lbs wet / 136 hp / $17,995 base

KTM 1290 Adventure R - 530 lbs wet / 160 hp  / $18,599 base

Honda Africa Twin Sport ES - 501 lbs wet / 100 hp / $14,399 base

I just don't get the big heavy adventure bikes, they are all pretty limited to pavement and packed gravel for most riders capabilities, it takes a very strong and fit man to handle a 550 lb cycle in the sand or dirt and most of these get loaded up with another 50 ~ 75 lbs of luggage. I have witnessed how poorly the big bikes handle on the sloppy and loose stuff.

You forgot the best of the breed... The Yamaha Super Tenere.

About 80% of my buddies from my FJR days have moved to this bike and absolutely love it. I just don't like the look of the ADV bike. I'll just have to make do with my Stornello  TT.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Ncdan on February 26, 2021, 06:04:53 PM
Before forming a solid opinion on the new Pan American HD go to Utube and pull up the 15 minute video.
I must admit that after watching the places the riders put those behemoth duel sport bikes, I must say I donít believe I could go follow them on my MG Sport. I realize the guys riding them were pros but still! They did slow motion shots of hitting serious ruts and bumps and no regular suspension on road bikes could handle that punishment and would totally bottom out the 7-8Ē ground clearances. Sometimes a mans just got to re-assess his opinions. 🤔
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Canuck750 on February 26, 2021, 09:33:57 PM
You forgot the best of the breed... The Yamaha Super Tenere.

plenty to like with the Yamaha

Super Tenere - 108.5 hp / 584 lbs wet / $16,299.00 base

and

Triumph Tiger 1200 XC - 141 hp / 580 lbs wet / $19,700.00 base

Suzuki 1050 XA V Strom - 106 hp / 545 lbs. wet / $14,799.00 base

Kawasaki Versys 1000 SE LT - 118 hp / 567 lbs wet / $17,999.00 base

and a recap

HD Pan America - 150hp / 534 lbs wet / $17,319 base

BMW R1250 GS  - 136 hp / 591 lbs wet /  $17,995 base

KTM 1290 Adventure R - 160 hp / 530 lbs wet  / $18,599 base

Honda Africa Twin Sport ES (corrected again  :embarrassed:) -100 hp / 501 lbs wet / $14,399 base

It is a very crowded field and any of these big adventure bikes would be a fine motorcycle if the tall and naked bike is your thing.
For low weight, lowest cost and extensive dealer network I would take the Honda.

Trying to match MSRP 'base' price is confusing to put it lightly, as others have said does a base price motorcycle really even exist?

I hope the HD can find its share of the market, they probably have a lot riding on its sucess.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Rough Edge racing on February 27, 2021, 07:15:16 AM
If you need the most bragging rights the Ducati 1260 has a bit more power...Wow, 160 hp touring biks, 400 Hp 6000 pound Pu trucks and 300 hp 4500 pound mid size SUV....People ain't the only obese things,  :evil:
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: twowheeladdict on February 27, 2021, 08:10:13 AM
If you need the most bragging rights the Ducati 1260 has a bit more power...Wow, 160 hp touring biks, 400 Hp 6000 pound Pu trucks and 300 hp 4500 pound mid size SUV....People ain't the only obese things,  :evil:

Especially on a day to day basis most of the owners of those bikes will tap into maybe 70 hp. 

I'm more interested in the torque curves than the HP numbers.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: bad Chad on February 27, 2021, 10:20:02 AM
Enough already!!   :grin:   Stop with the over the top congratulations too HD!    So many seem so impress and surprised that they could bring such a bike to the market for a competitive price, well Dahh!

It's not nuclear Med, it's a motorcycle.  If any of us had the resources that HD has, we too could build such a bike, it just takes money.  They are trying to sell more motorcycles, if they thought the future was solar powdered trikes they would be introducing that with Jason M. 
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: coast range rider on February 27, 2021, 12:59:44 PM
plenty to like with the Yamaha

Super Tenere - 108.5 hp / 584 lbs wet / $16,299.00 base

and

Triumph Tiger 1200 XC - 141 hp / 580 lbs wet / $19,700.00 base

Suzuki 1050 XA V Strom - 106 hp / 545 lbs. wet / $14,799.00 base

Kawasaki Versys 1000 SE LT - 118 hp / 567 lbs wet / $17,999.00 base

and a recap

HD Pan America - 150hp / 534 lbs wet / $17,319 base

BMW R1250 GS  - 136 hp / 591 lbs wet /  $17,995 base

KTM 1290 Adventure R - 160 hp / 530 lbs wet  / $18,599 base

Honda Africa Twin Sport ES -100 hp / 501 lbs wet / $14,399 base

It is a very crowded field and any of these big adventure bikes would be a fine motorcycle if the tall and naked bike is your thing.
For low weight, lowest cost and extensive dealer network I would take the Honda.

Trying to match MSRP 'base' price is confusing to put it lightly, as others have said does a bse price motorcycle really even exist?

I hope the HD can find its share of the market, they probably have a lot riding on its sucess.
Thanks for pulling together specs in one place. You are preferring the base price of the Honda Africa Twin, not the Honda Africa Twin Sport ES. The base price of the Sport ES model is $17,199. Sorry to nitpick, but your post would be more precise if you removed the words "Sport ES." Some of us would be spurred to action if the Sport ES base price was $14,399, big difference.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Dirk_S on February 27, 2021, 01:09:58 PM
Enough already!!   :grin:   Stop with the over the top congratulations too HD!    So many seem so impress and surprised that they could bring such a bike to the market for a competitive price, well Dahh!

It's not nuclear Med, it's a motorcycle.  If any of us had the resources that HD has, we too could build such a bike, it just takes money.  They are trying to sell more motorcycles, if they thought the future was solar powdered trikes they would be introducing that with Jason M.

 H-D is a suffering company with loads of history but a stagnant presence in the current market whose reputation and output relies on a particular audience that isnít helping them grow anymore. The fact that theyíre trying, AND TRYING, to find an Avenue of success out of that dying niche is absolutely worth applauding.

That said, Iíd be jumping and hollering with positivity toward them if they could produce a back-to-basics TRUE mid-weight like what Royal Enfield is doing.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Ncdan on February 27, 2021, 01:13:20 PM
H-D is a suffering company with loads of history but a stagnant presence in the current market whose reputation relies on a particular market. The fact that theyíre trying, AND TRYING, to find an Avenue of success out of that dying niche is absolutely worth applauding.

That said, Iíd be jumping and hollering with positivity toward them if they could produce a back-to-basics TRUE mid-weight like what Royal Enfield is doing.
Dirk is this bike not doing just that? It was my understanding that there was going to be two different size motors? I stand corrected on that if need be.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Dirk_S on February 27, 2021, 01:24:16 PM
Dirk is thus bike not doing just that? It was my understanding that there was going to be two different size motors? I stand corrected on that if need be.

Back-to-basics true midweight wouldnít what I call a 570 lb bike with a brand new liquid-cooled engine and other bells and whistles costing $20k, lol.

But I am applauding them for doing what they can to keep up with Indian and their lineup. Surprised H-D got the jump on them in the adventure segment.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: mobiker on February 27, 2021, 02:56:11 PM

That said, Iíd be jumping and hollering with positivity toward them if they could produce a back-to-basics TRUE mid-weight like what Royal Enfield is doing.

This  :thumb:
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: LowRyter on February 27, 2021, 04:25:31 PM
So much about a bike that hasn't been tested, marketed or ridden.  After many years of the Guzzi experience, most of us have learned never buy the first year of anything.  And if it pans out, a used one might be the deal since it's the proven product.

Did the same on my Ducati.  Was very interested, waited and ended up with lightly used first year model, already broken-in, serviced and recalls performed.  It's like someone did all the crap I didn't want to do with a new bike, the reliability and owner satisfaction was established, I get a 1300 mile creampuff and save 30%. 

Who knows what this machine is all about?  For sure it's got your interest and not mine but this is all hype for now.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Perazzimx14 on February 27, 2021, 08:00:06 PM
I wasn't a fan of "Adventure bikes" until I actually started doing some distance touring. I have become quite accustom to long travel suspension and comfortable ergonomics. I have gotten over having a uncomfortable piece of rolling art under me and now prefer function.

I'm no Harley fanboy but I certainly won't hesitate to a test ride a PA if and when the opprutinity presents itself. More choices is better than less. 
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: john fish on April 22, 2021, 04:42:54 AM
Test ride videos are surfacing>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN2Is9LE6eg

Sound clip in this one at 9:30.  Sounds like a blender.  Tech heavy.  Definitely shooting for the beemer crowd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g18iCBvS8dQ
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: egschade on April 22, 2021, 05:47:08 AM
Test ride videos are surfacing>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN2Is9LE6eg

Sound clip in this one at 9:30.  Sounds like a blender.  Tech heavy.  Definitely shooting for the beemer crowd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g18iCBvS8dQ

Thanks for sharing JF.

To quote the Dutch guy, "Harley has done quite an amazing job." Hopefully buyers agree and HD has long-term success with the bike which in turn, could embolden them to offer more non-heritage models based on this apparently outstanding engine.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: kingoffleece on April 22, 2021, 06:58:17 AM
I find it mildly amusing that so many new motorcycles need to have about 40 tech things, modes, and whatever else or they get dismissed right off the bat-not to mention so much horse power that controls are needed to keep the rider away from themselves.


And I don't even OWN red suspenders!
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: egschade on April 22, 2021, 07:37:47 AM
I find it mildly amusing that so many new motorcycles need to have about 40 tech things, modes, and whatever else or they get dismissed right off the bat-not to mention so much horse power that controls are needed to keep the rider away from themselves.


And I don't even OWN red suspenders!

Have you checked out pickup trucks lately? Power and tech wizardry sells. For HD to compete with BMW and KTM the have to have the tech. Maybe they'll roll out a lower spec model once the PA is established.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: kingoffleece on April 22, 2021, 09:31:13 AM
Yes, I have.  My truck has all that crap.  And 14 service recalls.  The motor is great.  The rest of it................. ...........?  Wish they could figure it out a bit better.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: oldbike54 on April 22, 2021, 09:35:30 AM
 There is at least one TV ad for a car that never mentions anything about the actual car , the entire ad is based on how the car is connected to the internet . So yes , unfortunately tech that most of us will never use sells in the modern world . Beyond some tech that makes a motorbike safer or handle better , most of these baubles are just that . 20 years ago I test rode a new RT beemer , Ken at Atlas Cycles spent 15 minutes explaining what all of the knobs and switches did , I just wanted to ride the dang thing and see how it worked , all of those "features" were meaningless . After the test ride, the old airhead RT ridden to the dealer felt like an uncomplicated old friend welcoming me back after a fling with some exotic hard to deal with person .

 Dusty
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: egschade on April 22, 2021, 12:03:47 PM
There is at least one TV ad for a car that never mentions anything about the actual car , the entire ad is based on how the car is connected to the internet . So yes , unfortunately tech that most of us will never use sells in the modern world . Beyond some tech that makes a motorbike safer or handle better , most of these baubles are just that . 20 years ago I test rode a new RT beemer , Ken at Atlas Cycles spent 15 minutes explaining what all of the knobs and switches did , I just wanted to ride the dang thing and see how it worked , all of those "features" were meaningless . After the test ride, the old airhead RT ridden to the dealer felt like an uncomplicated old friend welcoming me back after a fling with some exotic hard to deal with person .

 Dusty

Diva - 'exotic hard to deal with person'. We are clearly in the age of diva bikes.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: oldbike54 on April 22, 2021, 12:18:18 PM
Diva - 'exotic hard to deal with person'. We are clearly in the age of diva bikes.

  :thumb:

 The interesting thing , it is possible to have a comfortable reliable motorbike with modern fueling and electrical systems that work , good brakes , weather protection , saddle bags , good suspension , all of the things that make a motorbike such a wonderful device , W/O having some over complicated appliance that takes a degree in engineering to operate .

 Dusty
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Rough Edge racing on April 22, 2021, 01:32:14 PM
  :thumb:

 The interesting thing , it is possible to have a comfortable reliable motorbike with modern fueling and electrical systems that work , good brakes , weather protection , saddle bags , good suspension , all of the things that make a motorbike such a wonderful device , W/O having some over complicated appliance that takes a degree in engineering to operate .

 Dusty
Ah come on Dusty, who would buy a simple lighter weight capable machine.?  Old Airhead and Guzzi riders?..Buyers want all the extras, you can read it here all the time....
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: oldbike54 on April 22, 2021, 01:38:12 PM
  :laugh:

 Dusty
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: egschade on April 22, 2021, 03:39:18 PM
Ah come on Dusty, who would buy a simple lighter weight capable machine.?  Old Airhead and Guzzi riders?..Buyers want all the extras, you can read it here all the time....

Royal Enfield 650? It's like the high end ADV segment is in a technology arms race. Whoever offers the most bells and whistles wins the adoration of the press and money of the 'sophisticated' riders trying to out-farkel the others at the coffee house. Auto-lowering rear suspension - bet your GS can't do that!
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: oldbike54 on April 22, 2021, 03:50:02 PM
Royal Enfield 650? It's like the high end ADV segment is in a technology arms race. Whoever offers the most bells and whistles wins the adoration of the press and money of the 'sophisticated' riders trying to out-farkel the others at the coffee house. Auto-lowering rear suspension - bet your GS can't do that!

 The next gen GS will  :laugh: Gotta keep the baristas at the local starbucks impressed  :laugh:

 Dusty
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: kingoffleece on April 22, 2021, 04:06:28 PM
Not to mention the hp wars.  God forbid if your ADV doesn't have 160hp or else............... .....you're CANCELED!
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: oldbike54 on April 22, 2021, 04:20:44 PM
Not to mention the hp wars.  God forbid if your ADV doesn't have 160hp or else............... .....you're CANCELED!

 Except for the KLR riders  :laugh: They just get another slightly newer milk crate and boom , all the street cred they need  :grin:

 Dusty
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: bad Chad on April 22, 2021, 05:21:14 PM
I remember a former member, canít recall his Handel at the moment, but his point was that all these new Guzzi with computers (circa 2008) would wind up tits up with out support in ten years.

The thing is ten years came and went , but the dark never came.  My B1100 is still blazing along, electronics and all.  Some have had issues, but Iím super pleased with 14 year old Italian motorcycle.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: john fish on April 22, 2021, 06:14:19 PM
Auto-lowering rear suspension - bet your GS can't do that!

As silly as that sounds, I have two friends-- one on a BMW GS and one on a Multistrada-- who both lower their bikes when coming to a stop.  They'd probably like the auto lowering bit.

Personally, I'd like for Harley to turn out a bike with an air cooled Sportster engine, non-electronic suspension, minimal electrics, in an adv style.  Oh wait. . .

(https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery/Buell%20XB12X%20Ulysses%2006%20%202.jpg)

I fully understand that I'm in the luddite camp.  :)  Having said that, I hope this is a home run for Harley.  Sounds like they've done a good job on the PanAm,  I just hope they can bring in the customers.

Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Sykestone8886 on April 23, 2021, 05:57:26 AM
Glad to see HD diversifying, hope itís a huge success. I know thatís not a popular opinion on this site but after owning and still riding HDís they have been the most reliable easy maintainable motorcycles Iíve ever owned.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Dirk_S on April 23, 2021, 06:57:38 AM
Glad to see HD diversifying, hope itís a huge success. I know thatís not a popular opinion on this site but after owning and still riding HDís they have been the most reliable easy maintainable motorcycles Iíve ever owned.

I donít know about it being an unpopular opinionóseems to me that most of us want HD to update themselves and prosper!
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Motormike on April 23, 2021, 07:23:06 AM
A lot of luddites here that don't want any technology on their bikes.  Good luck with that, you're fighting a loosing battle.  And horsepower.  Well, I find it comes in handy when passing.  Last weekend my riding buddy was on his Yamaha FJR1300 and I was leading on my GS.  We have helmet coms (more needles tech?) and decided to pass two slower cars and not too much room to do it.  I pulled out and pinned the throttle.  All I could hear in my helmet was "hurry up, hurry up!"  I told him, "I'm wide open, this is as fast as it goes!" (I'm givn her all she's got, captain!)
My GS was no match for the FJR and he had to check up to keep from running into the back of me.  Sometimes it's true...there's no such thing as too much horsepower.
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: steven c on April 23, 2021, 08:22:43 AM
 To many years ago I worked in a union shop ,UAW member and I had a Suzuki then a Yamaha and then a Guzzi 850-T and of course I used to hear "how come you don't own a Harley?" and my reply was that they don't make anything I'm interested in.So the years went by and Buell's come out. Okay
now you have my interest I aways wanted a American made bike ,I test rode the the tube frames and really like them though a bit crude then the Uly came out and I test rode one a couple of times and really like the bike. So in 2008 I bought my 2006, sold my Triumph Sprint and a Ducati Paso to pay for it and I still have it. Well now finally Harley is selling another bike I find very interesting , but it's to big, to much money but I can't wait to ride one. And it's funky looking enough for my taste. ,
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: oldbike54 on April 23, 2021, 08:27:54 AM
A lot of luddites here that don't want any technology on their bikes.  Good luck with that, you're fighting a loosing battle.  And horsepower.  Well, I find it comes in handy when passing.  Last weekend my riding buddy was on his Yamaha FJR1300 and I was leading on my GS.  We have helmet coms (more needles tech?) and decided to pass two slower cars and not too much room to do it.  I pulled out and pinned the throttle.  All I could hear in my helmet was "hurry up, hurry up!"  I told him, "I'm wide open, this is as fast as it goes!" (I'm givn her all she's got, captain!)
My GS was no match for the FJR and he had to check up to keep from running into the back of me.  Sometimes it's true...there's no such thing as too much horsepower.

 Might it have been wiser to wait a bit before passing ? Kinda sounds like a belief in horsepower almost ended badly .

 Dusty
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on April 23, 2021, 08:40:04 AM
A lot of luddites here that don't want any technology on their bikes.  Good luck with that, you're fighting a loosing battle.  And horsepower.  Well, I find it comes in handy when passing.  Last weekend my riding buddy was on his Yamaha FJR1300 and I was leading on my GS.  We have helmet coms (more needles tech?) and decided to pass two slower cars and not too much room to do it.  I pulled out and pinned the throttle.  All I could hear in my helmet was "hurry up, hurry up!"  I told him, "I'm wide open, this is as fast as it goes!" (I'm givn her all she's got, captain!)
My GS was no match for the FJR and he had to check up to keep from running into the back of me.  Sometimes it's true...there's no such thing as too much horsepower.

I resemble that description!  :wink: Likely why the only new motorcycles (available in the US) that I'd even think about buying are both Royal Enfields (650 INT and Himalayan). I can't imagine ever needing more horsepower than the Centauro I once owned had. <shrug>
Title: Re: HD PanAmerican specs revealed
Post by: Motormike on April 23, 2021, 05:31:31 PM
Might it have been wiser to wait a bit before passing ? Kinda sounds like a belief in horsepower almost ended badly .
 Dusty
Oh, the pass was safe enough.  The problem was the guy behind me had 30 more hp than I did!