New 20 ounce tumblers available now! Forum donation credit with purchase. https://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm#Tumbler
Elegance. It could be argued, and indeed succinctly that installing gears is actually going back to the original setup.Ciao
Yes and yes Phil.
Ok so therefore your bike does not retain any oil at all in the fwd cam drive area, it relies solely on oil mist to lubricate the gears. Probably why your bike has slightly more gear noise than the earlier bikes.Ciao
I’ve thought about drilling an oil pressure hole into the vertical oil pressure galley to squirt at the junction where the gears mesh but never have done it. I’d tend to go small so as to not affect the pressure upstream. Maybe.0025 to start with. Just speculation. It would be fun to make a clear front cover or a window
I'd like to see your 0.0025 inch drill!
It would be fun to make a clear front cover or a window
Actually much easier than that, if you have early mechanical tacho model or can borrow timing chest cover from one, simply run without tacho drive installedGood thrash for 30 mins, all the fun you could imagine.But this is maddest thread drift ever, first post problem was not oil related, oil won’t create lash
No drift at all just following the logical path. The first post was related to tooth backlash because of perceived gear noise and gear noise can be somewhat related to the conditions the gears operate in including the oil and how they are lubricated. I would expect a gear drive system lubricated by oil mist to be somewhat noisier than the same system lubricated by an oil bath. Threads like this lead to interesting learnings for some of us. So now I know the later BB engines breath through the cam gear and camshaft and don't rely to some extent on the timing chain and oil pump sprocket picking up oil from a vestigial sump in the timing chest.
Suffice to say, if I’d installed the gears and felt even a couple of thou’ lash, I would have buttoned it up and off into the sunset.I have a background in machining and I know what a couple of thou feels like and I could not discern any.But that may be for the reasons mentioned.
I did have them in for a VERY short period.The last time I ran it, I decided they were coming out. From that decision to lifting off the timing chest cover, was about 20 minutes.The gears had a goodly coating of oil all over them and that was a hot engine with 20 minutes drain time.
Cool bananas Perhaps a schematic drawing of OP’s breather system would be handy. Oil return (condensate) to timing chest would seem to have the opposite effectThis May be relevantGoodly,, wonderful
Just not necessary I don't think John. The std chain and tensioner are obviously lubricated quite effectively by the oil mist and the loading on the gear teeth on a geared system wont be that high. At the end of the day it's only driving the camshaft not the back wheel and Joes gears are pretty beefy. After seeing the way the Norge engine front timing case is configured I think the blocking off and raising the oil drain holes on the earlier engines to elevate the height of the trapped oil some people do is a pointless exercise and only serves to waste energy by additional drag and churn oil which elevates it's temperature and can lead to frothing. A two and a half thou oil delivery hole isn't a practical size in an engine oil delivery system I dont think. I've seen oil pump bodies shed larger particles than that from contact with the tips of the gear teeth. It would be interesting to get a look at whats happening in there during running. On youtube there are various videos of car engine rocker covers and sumps that have been made see through. Interesting what goes on in there.Ciao
That’s why I never did it. In this case there was a concern about the oiling on the gears with the new timing chest design so I mentioned it as a possible solution to a possible problem since it would be easy to do. It stands to reason hole size would need to be determined and I make no recommendations on that obviously. There are also the considerations of skill and tooling.
The last image shows in the bottom of the crankcase timing chest floor the two large dia holes around 20mm each that drain the area directly to the sump unlike older BB engine crankcases which have drain holes in the vertical face above the floor of the timing chest and retain a quantity of oil that the lower portion of the oil pump gear runs in and picks up oil. . Technical evolution, always interesting. [/url]
Yes, a picture tells a fousand wordsNot quite as clear but my 67 V700 (70mm stroke, no oil filter, helical gears) , tractor not rocketshipVertical and horizontal holes visible ( blow up for horiz holes under oil pump gear)
So if I'm understanding correctly from your image the very early engines that came originally with a gear driven cam also had the timing chest drained via holes in the floor area and only when they went to chain driven cams they sealed the timing chest floor so the area retained oil? Is this the case? Ciao
have been following this thread with interest as my timing gear 73 eldorado has the 4 oil holes in the bottom of the timing chest plugged with 10mm grub screws and it drains via the oil holes that are a 3rd of the way up behind the oil pump gear and another a little higher up, I have had the bike for about 12 years and and travelled 70,000 kms on it before I rebuilt it a while back due to annoying piston slap that it had since I purchased it and when I rebuilt it the bottom end and timing gears were sound so I left the plugs installed as I couldnt see any negative effects and being a diesel mechanic all my life I believe chains can run in a mist of oil but gears need a bath. Ray
Duly noted RB….I think the jury is out to an extent as to how much oil is being thrown around in there during operation.If I was sure it was a mist, then the gears would stay on the shelf. Roper assures me that it is an absolute maelstrom of oil being thrown everywhere during operation and I do know that when I pulled them out 20 minutes after shutdown, they were soaked in oil…So I’m open to all comment.
I think it’s been mentioned in this thread that the distance between centers change as the temperature changes. Does anyone have a rough idea how much it moves from say, ambient 70f temp to operating temp after an hour of running? I know from having an oil temperature gauge on several big blocks that it takes an average of 30 miles for the oil temp, taken from a sender in the drain plug, to stabilize. From there it fluctuates depending on the variables. What average temp is the alloy in the block do you suppose? Caruso has likely calculated and possibly measured the difference change between the gears .just curious this morning..
Speaking of noisy gear train, I have 3 or 4 early fine pitch timing sets on the shelf, they are out of V700s, they belong where they are, they have to be heard in operation from behind a Polizia fairing for hours on end.......DonG