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I got 10w60 at my local BMW dealership (car dealership, not bike), they carry Castrol TWS which Castrol specially design for BMW M cars, price is the appox same as Agip 10w60. my Guzzi dealership is 100 km away. got 3 BMW dealership within 30 km
Also read a response from a letter written to Amsoil Corporation. They recommend their 20W-50 MCV in place of the 10W-60.
OK- I've read and considered all the responses to my posts, and have one question: Can anyone... anyone, present actual data which shows the requirement for a 10w-60 weight synthetic oil in the later bikes? Other than the suggestion by Guzzi- which may just as well have originated in their marketing department or warranty claims department as their engineering department?PeteT.
Moto Guzzi Technical bulletinhttp://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/mg_manuals/moto_guzzi_technical_note_010-2006.pdfOld Head
Didn't the Ducati link with MCN data claim all oils lose viscosity pretty quickly?So if 10-60 quickly goes to 50, then 40, what do you think likely happens to 20-50 or 15-50?Is it possible that the company ENGINEERS took this into account with THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS?
First, this paper reads like an autogenerated translation from some foreign language. Nobody uses the term anymore, which means there's probably a better synonym for whatever they were trying to get across. That said, going from no supporting evidence to the wikkipeedonya in support of an obscure term isn't helping. The W hasn't been homologated as an authority on anything. ;) Also, you need to offer a discrete context for the definition in your argument. You just toss it all out in a jumble, take the part where they used it in a sentence as part of the definition, draw a line that doesn't exist between the [random examples for use in a sentence] and Guzzi, and assume that since the aura of legal officialness somehow surrounded the random examples, you can conclude a lawyer did it. From there you jump the tracks completely and declare factory oil specifications to be an urban myth started in the Moto Guzzi legal department.I'll let the lurkers sort that out for themselves.Let's look at a more "standard" definition from Websters:Definition of HOMOLOGATEtransitive verb: sanction, allow; especially : to approve or confirm officially — ho·mol·o·ga·tion \-ˌmä-lə-ˈgā-shən\ noun Synonyms: accredit, approbate, authorize, clear, confirm, finalize, formalize, approve, OK (or okay), ratify, sanction, warrantAntonyms: decline, deny, disallow, disapprove, negative, reject, turn down, vetoHow does this standard useage (not the ancient greek and random examples) NOT apply to engineering decisions when we are in an engineering context?
I agree that the lack of data can be frustrating. I've had temp/pres gauges on my rigs since the 70s. I've offered the numbers up up in these discussions and they're largely ignored, so I gave up. I imagine just about everyone else with something educated to say about it gave up a long time ago. Now the real debate is which is better -- oil or air popt corn. [insert that popcorn smarm here]
I still haven't seen any actual numbers put forth, only opinion and conjecture.
I still haven't seen any actual numbers put forth, only opinion and conjecture. Just out of curiosity, what is the average operating oil temperature of some of the later bikes? Once we know for sure, it will be a lot easier to make an informed decision.PeteT.
Ambient temp 30*C. On the open road in 'Cruise mode', ie legal speeds oil temp on my 8V hovers between 115*C and 120*C. Get up it and give it heaps of welly, especially in the lower gears with comensurate slower air movement through the cooler and it'll get up to 130*C.In traffic in Canberra this arvo with the ambient temperaure in the mid thirties checked the temp at the traffic lights and the guage was at about 135-140*C indicated. Measurements taken with one of those dipstick thermometers. Once moving again the temperature rapidly falls back to about 120*C indicated.Remember that is the oil in the sump. NOT the oil that has just passed through the galleries around the exhaust valve seats and drained back via the frot of the cylinder castings.IMHO the actual viscosity rating is of LESS importance than the fact you need a full ester oil more able to withstand heat but the higher hot rating can't do anything but help in the prevention of boundary lubrication.Penrite's top oil has just been changed slightly from being called Sin 10 to 10 Tenths Premium Full Synthetic. Apart from the fct it is now supposed to be safe for wet clutches the claims made are the same. A 20 litre drum costs me a bit over $200AU. No 8V I've ever serviced has failed due to even the possibility of oiling problems. as I said. Put what you want in. I won't be puting yak-fat in any of my or my customers' bikes any time soon.Pete
I love a January oil argument to.
In traffic in Canberra this arvo with the ambient temperaure in the mid thirties checked the temp at the traffic lights and the guage was at about 135-140*C indicated. Measurements taken with one of those dipstick thermometers. Once moving again the temperature rapidly falls back to about 120*C indicated.Remember that is the oil in the sump. NOT the oil that has just passed through the galleries around the exhaust valve seats and drained back via the frot of the cylinder castings.
Pete s, on the VWs where were you measuring that 250-300°F?Remember Pete R is saying that he sees peak sump temps of about 284°F (140°C), which means head temps are likely higher ESPECIALLY when the oil passes through that dedicated exhaust valve passage. Granted that's 8V motors only but still.Bottom line, the fact that members using quality 20w-50 have reported flickering oil lights on some 2V big blocks under summer conditions is enough to suggest to me that the factory recommendations are NOT ALL MARKETING.I am sure other brands and viscosities will work much of the time, but equally sure that the OEM recommended oil will work more often than most so I have no motivation to stray from it.I've not told anyone what they need to do in this thread, I've only answered the question posed by the op and refuted at least some of your objections with data and logic. Believe and use what you will.More importantly, you've got a different machine than the op which may be enough to change the demands on the oil enough anyway.
If one is going to push the envelope a bit, one should approach it with caution and back off at the first sign of problems.
Wow. It is definitely winter. :DI've installed/removed and worked on dozens of these over the years...They cost anywhere from $500K to $700K each...A major overhaul starts at $100K...I've been to training at the factory in Friedrichshafen...Been to maintenance seminars bunches of times...I've seen a 2500HP V16 throw a rod at full power. The destruction can not be described in words.I've worked 24 hour shifts to replace large generators on ships at anchorage. Sitting idle for unscheduled maintenance can cost over $400K a day and up...In all this, oil grade/rating/viscosity has not once been the subject of discussion.Why not? You use the manufacturers recommendations and change it at the specified intervals. It's a fait accompli.But hey...Put whatever goo gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling in your bike. :)Now the important question really is...Boxers or Briefs :D ;)
;D ;D