2012 MG Norge or 2013 Yamaha FJR 1300

[Cam Lay]

The Goddess has a new-to-her 07 FJR. CalSci windshield, PowerCommander, some drilling to the exhaust, Corbin seat, and some ergonomic tweaks here and there. She formerly rode a little V-strom, has ridden my Nero Corsa and BMW RT. She's 5'9 and, uh, I think they call it "proportional."

She ain't going back. Smooth, comfy, ABS, and easy to ride.  No throttle issues. No slow-speed issues. No high-speed issues, either, other than my distaste for hearing "Oh! Did I pass you again? I'm sorry. Would you like for me to go, uh, slower?"


They all have their own character, quirks, and soul, y'know. Perhaps that's why there's so much ancillary discussion here about dogs and women and guns and airplanes and...

YMMV,
C

[redrider90]

The Goddess has a new-to-her 07 FJR. CalSci windshield, PowerCommander, some drilling to the exhaust, Corbin seat, and some ergonomic tweaks here and there. She formerly rode a little V-strom, has ridden my Nero Corsa and BMW RT. She's 5'9 and, uh, I think they call it "proportional."

She ain't going back. Smooth, comfy, ABS, and easy to ride.  No throttle issues. No slow-speed issues. No high-speed issues, either, other than my distaste for hearing "Oh! Did I pass you again? I'm sorry. Would you like for me to go, uh, slower?"


They all have their own character, quirks, and soul, y'know. Perhaps that's why there's so much ancillary discussion here about dogs and women and guns and airplanes and...






Sounds like you found the perfect bike. Better than finding the perfect woman. For me it's still what's between my legs.

[mojohand]

Very close to pulling Just pulled the trigger on a 2014 FJR from D&H Cycles in Cullman, AL. Great dealer-to-customer communication.

I love riding Raven, my 2012 Norge, but the dealer issues and other issues are wearing me down. While my recent flat tire could happen on any bike, the over-the-years hassles of dealing with parts channels, dealer locations, and some other issues have, sadly, soured me. While Steelhorse Classics was in existence, I felt better. If I lived within a 100-mile-radius of Rider's Hill (where I bought Raven) or Houston or Seattle or a few other noted locations, I'd feel better.

We'll see. But there are some good things to say about having a bike you can rely on.

Update
Sen a check on Saturday as a deposit to D&H after the oil pressure sensor crapped out (again) on my Norge. Second time in 17K miles.

[Falko]

I must be the only former FJR owner on here that didn't care much for the bike. Yes, it is a rocket. In fact, it is so fast it can outperform its suspension and almost its brakes as well. The bike is heavy, and it shows every time you try to flick it through the turns, stop quickly, and low speed maneuvering. Don't get me completely wrong, it is a good bike. But it isn't the end all be all of the sport touring world. It is much more a touring bike than sport. I've never ridden a "sport" bike that requires that much input for steering. And the FJR isn't bulletproof. They've had issues with electrical harnesses, excessive heat on the feet, cam chain tensioners, I even had to clean my clutch plates on a new bike!
I rode my friend's Norge and could instantly feel the difference in weight and agility. And the Guzzi transmission is buttered silk smooth compared to the FJR clunky gear box. Even though the engine is a bit rougher, I moved on to a Guzzi. Was it a mistake? Maybe, but for me moving away from the FJR wasn't the mistake.  Some may like it, but I'm not one of them.

[kirb]

ST1100 owner for 5 years to a 2005 FJR1300 for 6 years...Loved the move from the ST and enjoyed a lot of very trouble free miles on both bikes. They are a 'just ride it' bike. Reliable as a hammer.

The FJR electric windshield was a MAJOR bonus for me. The only downside was the Gen 1 heat was a bit much on hot days if not moving. The 150HP was nice, but you never use the other 100 of it. Torque was good for a I4, vibes were OK, not great. The leg room started to wear on me and knees would be bothered. The Norge was worse (sitting on the showroom). I sold the FJR for a Stelvio NTX and never looked back.

The NTX looks massive, but it handles GREAT, has a large tank, and comfort seat, more narrow than you would think. Not for everyone, but the switch for me was worth it. I can run the tank dry without getting off...I had a hard time on the FJR with that. I don't miss the FJR at all.

[mickyvee]

 :) My mate Dave has a brand new FJR with the fancy suspension and the automatic clutch thingummy. It is currently in the shop having a complete new dash fitted, due to the old one filling up with water after riding through a thunderstorm. By contrast, the much maligned dash on my 1200 Sport Corsa is still functioning perfectly! Oh yes, and the Yamaha costs an eye watering £16,000 here in the UK!

[Geno]

I bought a new FJR in 2011 after many agonizing weeks of decisions.  This past March, I bought a NOS 2007 Breva 1100(with 80 miles on it).  I'm crazy about both bikes for different reasons.  One slightly flawed analogy: the FJR is like a Lexus Sedan: very powerful, great handling, smooth & refined, great build quality.  On the road, it's got ferocious acceleration and an utterly serene ride at high speeds. Good wind/weather protection, heated grips, electric windscreen, bulletproof reliability and easy maintenance.  The Guzzi, on the other hand, is like a Corvette: very agile (feels like a 350 to me) good, if not ferocious, acceleration.  Handling is very confidence inspiring and 'fun'.  Sounds and vibrates like a motorcycle should, but not enough to be annoying.  When I take my coast-to-coast trip next year, the FJR will be the choice.  I choose the Breva for single & overnight trips to the Sierra and coast.  Of course, the Norge would have the same kind of luggage capacity for touring as the FJR.  I guess it all depends on what you want most from a bike.  I want 'em both. :drool

Of course, that's just my opinion...I could be wrong.. :bike

[KyleT]

This is one beautiful bike. It's a real pleasure riding it. Plenty of smooth power, great sound, lot's of character, and great handling!

[youcanrunnaked]

^^^  No question that design-wise -- at least in my mind -- the Norge wins.  IMO the Norge is one of the most beautiful motorcycles ever designed.  I think the original design, in silver and with the factory top case, was the apogee, but the current ones are still great looking bikes.



In contrast, the FJR looks to me to be a bit "dated."  Maybe because I still see too much of its FJ1200 origins in the design?

[Buckturgidson]

I have finally whittled my decision to the 2012 MG Norge or the 2013 Yamaha FJR 1300.  My heart would argue that there should not be a debate as I love the looks and character of the Norge.  However, I am still concerned about the reviews of cramped leg room.  I am 6', 210 lbs with a 34" inseam and was hoping to pick the brains of some current long of leg Norge owners for feedback.  I plan to test ride both before making the final decision but I don't know how thorough a conclusion I can come to in a 20 minute test ride. 
Also, I am coming off a 65 HP Versys, is this a logical next step in motorcycle?  I have read that the power comes on smoothly so is it pretty easy to control?  Thanks for any help and I hope to log on soon as a paying member, my friends!

I'm 6'1" with 34 inch inseam and a right knee that's a litlle balky sometimes. Stock Norge O.K. but admit there are times I'd like a little more legroom, lowering kit handles that and the Guzzi is preferred to FJR, IMO.

[Buckturgidson]

If this is an only bike I would go with the Yamaha hands down.. I love my 12 Griso and so far its been trouble free but I still trust a Japanese bike more for overall reliability.. Gotta have a backup bike just in case imho..I had an 05 FJR and they are very fast, comfortable and reliable with a great dealer network.

My friend has an '05 FJR and the engine heat is unbearable.

[mojohand]

I'd think the weight difference would significantly affect the handling. Believe the FJ is at least 100 lbs more than the Norge. I know how the norge changes from empty tank to full, adding 45lbs or so. FJ must be more of a handful, especially when going is slow. 

Actually, they're not very far off in weight.

Norge
From http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/firstrides/122_1108_2012_moto_guzzi_norge_gt8v/
Claimed curb weight   602 lbs.

FJR
From http://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport/products/modelspecs/180/0/specs.aspx
Wet Weight***   637 lb / CAL 639 lb

[Bill N]

My friend has an '05 FJR and the engine heat is unbearable.

There is an easy heat blanket fix for the first generation FJR's. My 2nd generation 09 has no heat issues as far as I'm concerned, even in the desert and here in Florida.
Bill

[KENF]

If you do not absolutely have to have a brand new bike have you considered looking into a 2012 or 2011 BMW K1200/1300 GT?  Better ergos than the Yamaha, more power and most were sold new with all the whistles and bells.  I've owned both a K12 and the K13 and they are good long distance steeds while offering handling the mags say is superior to the Yamaha.  The main thing is to find examples which have all of the recalls done and have the fuel injection sorted.  Both mine had all of the issues you may read about but done under warranty--BMW was at least good about that.  Also, with the release of the K1600 there are many K12/K13s out there.

Currently I share your dilemma in that I am wanting to sell my 1200 Sport and buy a new Norge, but my dealer network around St Louis is non-existent so I am considering a Triumph Trophy SE.  I really want the Norge, but my rational brain keeps sending warning signals in spite of the significant price differential.

Good luck!

Ken

[TribeFan]

Great feedback. Thanks so much everyone. I plan to test ride several but I'm hoping it's going to be the Norge.  While I'm there, I'm hoping to ride the new California Custom.  I'm still curious why Moto Guzzi would equip the Cali with traction control and cruise and not their sport tourer

[tiger_one]

Probably different ECU that allows control of spark advance and fueling to allow software to give TC.

[bratman2]

With three close by Guzzi dealers and of course you have Yamaha dealers, the only question should be which bike speaks to your heart and soul so to speak. The Norge is one beautiful bike and it does have character!!! I went with a Norge with the closet dealer in another state!!!

[youcanrunnaked]

I'm still curious why Moto Guzzi would equip the Cali with traction control and cruise and not their sport tourer

TC, cruise, and switchable fuel maps are all a by-product of the ride-by-wire throttle system.  Once you have an electronic brain controlling the throttle, the rest is not much more complicated.  The nuovo California is the first Moto Guzzi to use ride-by-wire, although Piaggio  has a few years' experience with it on Aprilia motorcycles.  The 8V Norge, Stelvio NTX, and 8V Griso are all updates of older designs, all of which pre-date Moto Guzzi's use of ride-by-wire technology.

Future Moto guzzi motorcycles are likely to continue with ride-by-wire, which probably means more will have tc and cruise.  Whether this will be added to the current Big Block models as an update, or will not occur until whenever they are completely redesigned, is open to speculation.

[Cheese]

Actually, they're not very far off in weight.

Norge
From http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/firstrides/122_1108_2012_moto_guzzi_norge_gt8v/
Claimed curb weight   602 lbs.

FJR
From http://www.yamahamotorsports.com/sport/products/modelspecs/180/0/specs.aspx
Wet Weight***   637 lb / CAL 639 lb

Ahhh, the 8 valves a bit heavier that the earlier Norges? Thought my '07 was 540. Perhaps that's dry? Looked up the '07 norge wet weight and says 616, '13 FJR 663. So, yeah, about a hundred pounds  :BEER:

Peter

[KyleT]

It's pointless to comment now, but I don't agree with what Motorcyclist magazine says about the 8V Norge: "Comfortable and capable but lacking the sophistication and refinement of its competitors."  ???  Not true. I know, and have ridden the "competitors".  But I'm preaching to the choir.  :beat_horse

[redrider]

Almost no one asks about maintenance costs when under the bright lights in the showroom. I do all of my own service and am lucky in that regard. 5 scoots and two cages can be expensive at $85 per hour. The Benelli has the shim under bucket system but very easy to access. Norton and Guzzi brands are easy. A couple of hours for every thing.

[blackcat]

Almost no one asks about maintenance costs when under the bright lights in the showroom. I do all of my own service and am lucky in that regard. 5 scoots and two cages can be expensive at $85 per hour. The Benelli has the shim under bucket system but very easy to access. Norton and Guzzi brands are easy. A couple of hours for every thing.

Yeah, I remember one early review of the Norge saying that the valve adjustment would cost something like $350 including parts. Parts as in a pair of gaskets? Can you imagine getting charged that amount of cash for a valve adjustment on a Guzzi?  ;D

[youcanrunnaked]

It's pointless to comment now, but I don't agree with what Motorcyclist magazine says about the 8V Norge: "Comfortable and capable but lacking the sophistication and refinement of its competitors."  ???  Not true. I know, and have ridden the "competitors". 

I understand and agree to some extent with the quote -- and I owned a Norge and currently own an EV, so I am part of the "choir."  By "sophistication," I am fairly sure the author means ride-by-wire throttle, multi-mode engine mapping, traction control, cruise control, and maybe a slipper clutch.  The Norge lacks these modern advances, while many of its competitors have some or all of them, so the Norge is lacking in sophistication by comparison.  Now, some people may not want all of that gadgetry, but that's a different issue.

Whether the Norge is as refined as its peers is a trickier question.  By "refinement," the author may mean the feel or the bike, the quality, the fit and finish, or the little niggling details that can drive an owner crazy.  The Norge can be viewed as lagging a bit compared to its ST peers (although I am not sure how much this criticism applies to the 8V model).  The ridiculously-placed controls for the Norge's power windscreen comes immediately to mind. The spotty fueling, low-speed hesitation and driveline snatchiness, pinging when hot, and popping on overrun that some owners experience does not exactly suggest "refinement."  (Do stock 8V bikes have these issues?)

Then again, if "refinement" is judged by how a bike goes down the road, the Norge acquits itself well.  The lumpy idle and V-twin vibrations are different from the turbine-smooth powerplants that most of the competition uses, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, IMO.  In this case I would argue that different does not necessarily equal less refined, although I can understand how some might see it that way.

[Gliderjohn]

Quote from youcanrunnakled:

The ridiculously-placed controls for the Norge's power windscreen comes immediately to mind. The spotty fueling, low-speed hesitation and driveline snatchiness, pinging when hot, and popping on overrun that some owners experience does not exactly suggest "refinement."  (Do stock 8V bikes have these issues?)

My 8V does not have any fueling problems and only during the first 500 miles or so did I have a low-speed hesitation, but not since. The driveline snatchiness I do not consider a problem but then I may just be used to it, remember I came from a T-3. There is still some popping on overrun but I do not see that as a problem or a negative. The windscreen buttons could be better placed but I have learned to use them on the move with minimal inconvenience and mostly adjust it when stopped anyway. The 8V either eliminated or significantly improved most of the complaints of the older Norges. Since the Norge is not really a sport bike I do not see a need for a slipper clutch. The throttle response is smooth enough that riding in the rain or on dirt does not require a "mode". Cruise control would be a nice touch however.
GliderJohn

[mojohand]

It's pointless to comment now, but I don't agree with what Motorcyclist magazine says about the 8V Norge: "Comfortable and capable but lacking the sophistication and refinement of its competitors."  ???  Not true. I know, and have ridden the "competitors".  But I'm preaching to the choir.  :beat_horse

In my case, Raven is anything but refined. In 17K miles/18 months I've had--

* Two oil pressure sensor failures
* Spark plug wires/boots fail
* End cap of exhaust rattle off (despite Lock-Tite) and disappear down the road, causing me to buy a new muffler, because the end cap isn't available separately (you have to buy the whole muffler)
* Front fork leakage (out of the top caps)

All of this except for the muffler is/was warranty-able...but refined? I think not. As HD becomes more reliable, it seems as if Guzzi moves in the opposite direction.



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[Gliderjohn]

In 8K miles I about lost the muffler end cap, used blue locktite and no problem since. Have had a few tupperware fasteners loosen up. No other issues at all so far.
GliderJohn

[KyleT]

In my case, Raven is anything but refined. In 17K miles/18 months I've had--

* Two oil pressure sensor failures
* Spark plug wires/boots fail
* End cap of exhaust rattle off (despite Lock-Tite) and disappear down the road, causing me to buy a new muffler, because the end cap isn't available separately (you have to buy the whole muffler)
* Front fork leakage (out of the top caps)

All of this except for the muffler is/was warranty-able...but refined? I think not. As HD becomes more reliable, it seems as if Guzzi moves in the opposite direction.


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Very few issues with my 8V as well. It's refined in the way it rides and looks. I'm sure the "competitors" have laundry lists as well. And btw, I like where the windscreen buttons are located. They're out of the way.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w84qzHdEms

[mojohand]

I wonder if I just got the "luck of the draw" bike


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[guzziks]

mojo, how did the fork tube leak get resolved.  at one time you were talking about complete new forks, I believe, or did they just put in new o rings on the top caps?

[mojohand]

mojo, how did the fork tube leak get resolved.  at one time you were talking about complete new forks, I believe, or did they just put in new o rings on the top caps?

Guzzi approved a full rebuild of both forks. I had to await a back ordered part.  It's there at the dealer now, but I've had no time to get there. Tried to go get my flat tire fixed but the oil pressure sensor failed. Oil spill.

Will update when I get all things sorted. And after I pick up my 2014 FJR that I've ordered.


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