"Super" Lario/LM1 SB clone build w/Bubs music

[kevdog3019]

Ok guys, newbie at work on the project Lario to make it minimalistic (some may say cafe).  This is what I come up with at the moment for starters.  I don't want to fork over big $$ as I've already done that on the motor.  I want to make it mine by doing something that both fits me and looks good.  My creative juices are starting to flow and want input as to what you all think.  I will fabricate brackets, etc. from aluminum sheet or whatever someone that knows better has used.  I have decided the tank will work.  The seat also seems to work for fitment.  I can't sit my arse on the frame much lower as I look like a jockey and my knees are above the tank, so a true flat and thin cafe seat won't work.  I'm thinking of leaving the back-end without a fender but would like input there.  Thinking of a "tail tidy" instead.  Somehow I have to fill in the sides of the rear portion of the frame/seat where it moves upward away from the frame.  The fairing is a LM 1 copy and fits great.  It will likely sit further toward the bike than the pic shows.  The cluster looks funny where it is shown currently.  I think that will be ok for now, but will likely fab my own mount with smaller tach/speedo later to minimize it.  The front fender is already off the bike as that was just thrown on.  I've got one that will fit great and simply need to make a mount.  What do you suggest for starters?
Thanks,
-Kevin
p.s.  Made first start-up today since receiving the bike from Ed.  This thing is pretty potent to say the least and would wake all the neighborhood!  
   

[fotoguzzi]

I like your direction.. trim the front fender or get an even slimmer one. skip rear fender and make a cover like you say.. the seat looks a little to big but the shape is fine, goes well with tank and that looks great. maybe just a seat cover that has some seems to draw a shape idea matching the side covers ( I hope the side covers are not too big, maybe they should be black?)
Looks COOL!

[kevdog3019]

Thanks Foto.  The seat looks a little shapeless in the photo. It actually doesn't look like a turd in person. That's a seat I made from a stock Lario seat last year. The fender you see is gone now. I have a sleek Airtech to replace it that's perfect. I can trim however I want. If I do anything to the under-saddle sides it's going to be extremely minimal. I have another idea of fitting the original rear (black) mudguard/fender and see what that fills. I can cut the plastic license plate to fit the look. We'll see, but yes, minimal. The other idea might be a simple fender to fill the void under the rear portion of the seat that extends upward. I would cut it short out the back probably. That might be the best bet. The rear of the tank also comes down a bit. Will lift and give it a straighter line. Does it need a transition from the bottom/back angled up portion of the tank to the seat?  Something bothers me there.
Thanks
Kevin

[RinkRat II]

                  Great project kevdog!! My .02$ on the tail , Look up pictures for CB 750,900F model and the tail piece they use could easily be cut down or narrowed to suit the purpose.
                                Waiting to see the progress.

[kevdog3019]

Rinkrat, appreciate that!  I did research the 750 and rather like the looks of the simple fender.  Appreciate the ideas and they are feeding the creativity.  I'm going to try putting the underseat splashguard back in which will fill the void under the rear portion of the seat (it's black), then see about adding a shorty fender and see what that gets me.  That 750 is just a short job and could bolt in real easily. 
Thanks man.
-Kevin

[IceBlue]

Looking forward to the result - I'm not much of a bike designer, and stay pretty much at the stock look, but I'll follow your project with great interest - not to say your ride report once the season kicks in :pop

[kevdog3019]

Looking forward to the result - I'm not much of a bike designer, and stay pretty much at the stock look, but I'll follow your project with great interest - not to say your ride report once the season kicks in :pop

Brian,
     The bike roared to life and sounded (shall we say) very substantial.   :o  The build to make it mine is more of me getting a picture in my head and making that picture a reality.  Each day becomes a bit clearer, so soon I will start to work my piece of clay into the object I envision.  The seat as you see it is out of the picture for this Lario as I have different ideas for that now.  I'm looking forward to learning something most of all.
-Kevin 

[guzzi4cats]

Hello from England, I'll be watching your progress with interest. I can't help thinking the original tank, shaped at the back end to fit the side covers isn't an easy one to match up to anything else. Is cutting down the side panels just to cover the triangular bit an option? I intend using floating front discs on mine when (if) I get round to it as I think the brakes have a wooden feel and it might help. I'm led to believe that Le Mans 4 or 5 discs can be used, has anyone on here tried it?Also I believe I read in Guzziology that dropping the forks through the yokes is worth a try on the Lario. I've done it on a big block and it does quicken up the rather lazy steering, but has anyone tried it on one of these? I'll try it next year and see what happens. Anyway, good luck and a Happy New Year to you all.

[kevdog3019]

Hello from England, I'll be watching your progress with interest. I can't help thinking the original tank, shaped at the back end to fit the side covers isn't an easy one to match up to anything else. Is cutting down the side panels just to cover the triangular bit an option? I intend using floating front discs on mine when (if) I get round to it as I think the brakes have a wooden feel and it might help. I'm led to believe that Le Mans 4 or 5 discs can be used, has anyone on here tried it?Also I believe I read in Guzziology that dropping the forks through the yokes is worth a try on the Lario. I've done it on a big block and it does quicken up the rather lazy steering, but has anyone tried it on one of these? I'll try it next year and see what happens. Anyway, good luck and a Happy New Year to you all.

You are spot on with your observation of the rear of the tank.  Before reading this I thought the same and did a little masking to see what it would do.  Think "Lemans Gunfighter seat".  The tank is more teardrop than the Lemans but shares common features I like.  It's the rear that's a tough sell.  Here's with another stock Lario seat I have.  Feels good actually with this seat.  What I'm thinking is simply flash the bottom of the seat-pan with aluminum to have it run straight with the frame rails instead of what you see.  It starts back upward at midway point.  That's a funky line so will add the necessary fill along the bottom. The black tail-end plastic bit will be cut off and a small fender added.  The brakes feel fantastic now with the dual-pots.  Very precise on the hand.  The clutch is much truer also.  I can push my stocker with the front brake added, that's how bad the hand brakes are.  With this I will have to watch myself as I feel I could bring the back wheel up if applied hard.  The Marzzochi forks are sweet feeling as well.  No flex and solid feeling.  I hate the stock forks.  It is true that you can push the forks through the tt and get yourself some better handling.  Suggested by Dave Richardson in Guzziology. Here's the latest.

      

[Offcamber1]

Kevin,

Sometime in the last few days someone mentioned a dented Monza tank.  IIRC, that would allow easily available LMIII sidecovers to be fitted and be a bit easier to match up with a seat.  Plus, looks cool with the right tail cone.

It would also change the entire visual dynamic of the bike...but you're doing that already.

Ciao,

Kip

[kevdog3019]

Yeah... have thought about Monza tank but hoping I can work with this.  More time.  I'm not wanting side-covers actually.  I will move things and go with my LiFe battery.  I want to see through the bike.
Kevin

[Chuck in Indiana]

I can push my stocker with the front brake added, that's how bad the hand brakes are.

Something seriously wrong there..

[kevdog3019]

Something seriously wrong there..

How well does your hand brake alone (no linked added) work Chuck?  If I really pull it's better but not nearly what I'd like or need. 
-Kevin

[Chuck in Indiana]

How well does your hand brake alone (no linked added) work Chuck?  If I really pull it's better but not nearly what I'd like or need. 
-Kevin

fine.. <shrug>  ;D Seriously, something is wrong with yours.

[guzzi4cats]

Though it's nothing to do with kevdog's problem, I see on IceBlue's Lario facebook page that someone has tried adapting a big-block-size caliper to the Lario fork as he reckons the master cylinder, the same as the Le Mans 4 one, is to big for the smaller caliper,and that's causing the 'wooden' feeling. He reckons it's improved things, so maybe the floating discs I was going to put on wouldn't help much. By the way, to help to satisfy my thirst for Lario knowledge I have obtained a copy of the Cycle magazine article from '88, it's just arrived and I'm settling down for a read...

[kevdog3019]

Is that the "Hot Pastrami" article?  Interesting read. I've gone a step further with this one.  Well, if you look closely to the bike pics you will see upgraded 2-pots on both fronts. To run the hand brake we stayed with the stock master cylinder and it feels REALLY nice and solid on the hand with no force required. For the linked we upgraded to a bigger rear mc. Not sure floating discs are necessary. I'd get the adapters and 2-pots then decide if floaters are what you need. I won't really know myself until I ride this thing.
Kevin

[guzzi4cats]

No, though I have got that one. This is an American 'Cycle' mag specially imported  at great expense via e-bay! They're better than the Continental ones as my French/German/Italian isn't that good... I'll look up some of your old posts to remind myself what you've done to your bike.

[kevdog3019]

In a nutshell (since the link took 2 yrs. to get from start to finish):
increased compression to 10.5 or 11:1(memory not serving me well)
larger valves
from 30 to 36 carbs
Lighter Carillo rods
lightened flywheel
smaller primary gear (stock V65)
Marzzochi cartridge forks
from 1 pot fronts to 2 pots (kept linked as is... me likes!)
DLC coated cam and followers

[kevdog3019]

Not much time with it lately, but got a couple hours here and there.  Here's where I'm at.  Raised the back of the tank to run more straight along the line of the frame.  Hacked off tabs and mounts for the stock seat arrangement and dropped it to also run straight with the rails and tank.  Seat will be made into a LM type gunfighter that will fit over the rear of the tank around the area that's blacked out.  It will be built up slightly in the middle and run straight, then have a hump of some sort on the rear.  This will all have to conform to the tank in height, etc..  It looks very funny as is I know.  The rear of the bike will be raised and the front may be lowered a good bit to make things equal.  Looks a little like a chopper at the moment.  Waiting for round headlamp and will fabricate mounting for it, then the LM fairing.  Have a fender that I will have to fabricate mounts for as well as cut to fit.  My question... do I leave the rear fenderless and make a tail tidy type license holder/blinker/tail light bracket, or mount a small fender?  I'm leaning with a tail tidy.  Have nice new clutch cables and throttle cables mounted. 
-Kevin

[IceBlue]

You have done a lot for this baby Kevin - have you thought about safety - I've noticed the brake lines looks stock'ish.

Just a suggestion:


http://www.ebay.de/itm/Stahlflex-Bremsleitung-fur-MOTO-GUZZI-V-65-Lario-1984-1987-Komplett-/120797836439?pt=DE_Motorradteile&hash=item1c201cb497

Ciao

[Chuck in Indiana]

Earls, in Gasoline Alley in Indy, made me up a set for 60 bux. Nice. Cheap. (Guzzi content.) Take a look at the Lario Rehab thread for info on brakes.

[kevdog3019]

You have done a lot for this baby Kevin - have you thought about safety - I've noticed the brake lines looks stock'ish.

Just a suggestion:


http://www.ebay.de/itm/Stahlflex-Bremsleitung-fur-MOTO-GUZZI-V-65-Lario-1984-1987-Komplett-/120797836439?pt=DE_Motorradteile&hash=item1c201cb497

Ciao

Yeah, thanks. The linked are braided, but the hand looks to be stockish.  Feels great so will leave it for now.  I decided on this build because this thing needed going through and the body panels, etc. were a mess.  The blinkers didn't make contact and cables were less than desirable.  It was something I always wanted to do anyhow (a cafe that is) and this bike begged for it.  Interesting perception differences when you start experimenting with positioning of things.  The tank for instance looks larger when the rear is down in stock setting.  When the rear is raised, it takes on a whole different appearance.  Never saw the straightness of the seat pan until I took a careful look and cut up the old mounts.  It sits flat.  I have to take it slow and think it through, but when you move things around, I think a lot of this stock stuff will work with a little help.
-Kevin       

[Dimples]

I appreciate many of the Ritmo Sereno Moto Guzzi and BMW builds. I know this example started life as a LM III, but it has enough in common with your bike that it could serve as an aesthetic reference. My eye likes to see a transition from the upholstered seat to the tire via painted bodywork. They used a simple triangle to fill the void in the frame that you were undecided about. In this case the black finish helps to visually unify the individual parts.





http://www.ritmo-sereno.com/customfile/archives/2007/04/001207.html

http://www.ritmo-sereno.com/customfile/index.html

[Chuck in Indiana]

Hoo Wee! I'd look good on that..  ;D :BEER:

[kevdog3019]

That's pretty sweet indeed.  Classy looking machine.  Don't be expecting that from me.  Mine will say "hooligan" a little more than that.  I need to simply get mine to the point of rideability this spring/summer and move from there.  It will be a work in progress for a good many months.  Ordered up a Tarozzi fork brace today.  Want no wallowing in corners even if I have Marzochi's now.
-Kevin   

[kevdog3019]

OK... tank is now officially set with rubber mount.  Raised slightly more than last time in the rear and I think it looks proper.  On to the headlamp I now have, then the fairing for which the lamp has been fitted.  From there it's get it home so I can fab the brackets for the front fender, fab the seat to a LM ! style gunfighter type, fab a bracket for the rear lamp/turn signals/license plate, and fab a new dash (likely in wood!).  Lots of stuff and the bike is too far away at the moment to do much.  Good planning time.
-Kevin

[kevdog3019]

Been awhile and slowly getting a little work done.  Think I found my line with the horizontal.  Dropped the forks through a GOOD bit and ordered up some "custom" rear shocks from Dave Quinn.  Bike no longer looks like a bobber (except for the seat).  Next will be a custom console (dash) and headlamp mounting.  Just need some time!!

[guzzi4cats]

I suppose it's a shame 1000S seats are scarce as I suppose thats the sort of thing you will need to make to fit over the tank as you mentioned earlier.

[kevdog3019]

I suppose it's a shame 1000S seats are scarce as I suppose thats the sort of thing you will need to make to fit over the tank as you mentioned earlier.

Yeah... except it wouldn't fit directly anyhow. I will flash this pan with aluminum siding at the tank and give it it's needed shape on top with foam and should be ok. Since I've only done one seat before, I'm a real rookie. It will need a lot of time to get right but heaven knows I got patience! 
Kevin

[kevdog3019]

Got the new dash done today.  

Here's the old:


New:


Before:


After: