Author Topic: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest  (Read 190174 times)

Offline Dogwalker

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2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« on: September 25, 2014, 10:11:13 AM »
http://www.moto.it/intermot-colonia/moto-guzzi-v7-ii-e-aprilia-caponord-1200-rally-a-intermot.html
http://www.motoblog.it/post/343942/anteprima-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-my-2015

Six speed gearbox, ABS and traction control. With the new gearbox, the engine is rotated forward, as the BB was with the introduction of the CARC.


http://www.intermot-cologne.com/en/intermot/home/index.php

*added INTERMOT dates to subject line.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 11:38:34 AM by rocker59 »

Offline Unkept

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2014, 10:18:52 AM »
http://www.moto.it/intermot-colonia/moto-guzzi-v7-ii-e-aprilia-caponord-1200-rally-a-intermot.html
http://www.motoblog.it/post/343942/anteprima-moto-guzzi-v7-ii-my-2015

Six speed gearbox, ABS and traction control. With the new gearbox, the engine is rotated forward, as the BB was with the introduction of the CARC.

Wow, cool!  ;-T

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2014, 10:19:43 AM »
25 mm lower and the six speed.  ;-T ABS and traction control? <sigh> I suppose it has to come on all new bikes.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline Unkept

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2014, 10:27:31 AM »
Can't wait to see the full report on changes/new models.

You wouldn't kill me if I ended up selling the V11 (Lemon) LeMans to get a V7 II... would you Chuck?  :D  ;)

I wonder if they'll just slap the required ABS onto the Griso or if they'll replace/upgrade that model as well? All of the other BB Guzzis already have it.

Edit: I also like how they brought back the "II" as in Lemans II, Imola II, etc. etc.

When was the last time they used that scheme?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 10:43:04 AM by Unkept »

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2014, 10:27:31 AM »

Online Kev m

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2014, 11:26:10 AM »
Wow, I honestly like my smallblock so much that if this was different enough in performance, but close enough in feel, I'd consider adding another to the garage.
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2014, 12:06:57 PM »
What, no cruise control??

Offline steven c

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2014, 12:42:32 PM »
It makes sense. The V7 series are their most popular models. The gearbox casing looks very similar to the CARC bike box. What's the betting the internals will be very similar? Reminds me of the thinking behind the Ippogrifo which used the V11 gearbox and bevelbox but in a non reactive package. Lowering the overall gearing could be done either on the gearbox primary or at the bevelbox.

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Offline Mark West

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2014, 02:41:51 PM »
What are the chances of breaking the rear tire loose under acceleration on a small block Guzzi?  :-\
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Offline jas67

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2014, 02:48:08 PM »
What are the chances of breaking the rear tire loose under acceleration on a small block Guzzi?  :-\

I've done it on loose gravel.   I'm sure it is possible in rain too.  But, I do agree with you, traction control is not really necessary on a 40 RWHP bike.

These electronic aids don't prevent all traction loss.   Traction control and ABS won't prevent loss of traction due to abrupt clutch engagement at the wrong time.    Plain swing arm shaft drive (not CARC or Paralever) is especially susceptible to this due to "shaft jacking."    I had a close call like this when I was still very green (only riding a few months, 2009 V7C was first bike).
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Offline Phang

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2014, 02:52:48 PM »
What are the chances of breaking the rear tire loose under acceleration on a small block Guzzi?  :-\

I think it is more of a slippery road surface than a power induced lost of traction.

With ABS and RBW (ride-by-wire), it cost next to nothing in terms of hardware for the bike to have traction control function, just need a few extra lines in the software.
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2014, 02:54:34 PM »
With ABS and RBW (ride-by-wire), it cost next to nothing in terms of hardware for the bike to have traction control function, just need a few extra lines in the software.

Ahh, but it turns out the 1TB V7's (at least first generation) are not RBW after all. They don't even have a pintle for idle control (that's done with timing).

At least that's my current understanding.
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Offline Phang

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2014, 03:05:25 PM »
Ahh, but it turns out the 1TB V7's (at least first generation) are not RBW after all. They don't even have a pintle for idle control (that's done with timing).

At least that's my current understanding.

I stand corrected.

Probably achieved through ignition/fuel control  ;D
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Offline jas67

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2014, 03:06:27 PM »
No air control for idle????    Seriously?
Maybe that's why they stumble off-idle when cold.
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2014, 03:25:24 PM »
This is the latest that Pete has reported on here. Yes, ignition/fuel control for idle speed.

YES, that probably has a lot to do with the cold idle problems some of us have reported.

I just showed this one to Jenn, she really likes it.

Hmmmmmm.

I don't really WANT to buy a Bonnie...
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2014, 03:27:16 PM »
Can't wait to see the full report on changes/new models.

You wouldn't kill me if I ended up selling the V11 (Lemon) LeMans to get a V7 II... would you Chuck?  :D  ;)

I wonder if they'll just slap the required ABS onto the Griso or if they'll replace/upgrade that model as well? All of the other BB Guzzis already have it.

Edit: I also like how they brought back the "II" as in Lemans II, Imola II, etc. etc.

When was the last time they used that scheme?

Heavens no. I'm just trying to help you get a machine back together. What you do with it is entirely your business.. ;D
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Offline jas67

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2014, 03:27:59 PM »
This is the latest that Pete has reported on here. Yes, ignition/fuel control for idle speed.

YES, that probably has a lot to do with the cold idle problems some of us have reported.

I just showed this one to Jenn, she really likes it.

Hmmmmmm.

I don't really WANT to buy a Bonnie...

When I saw the yellow, I figured that you'd be all over it.    If Jenn really likes it, you definitely need to get it.  Then you'll have a "guest V7" for your Pennsylvania friends to ride when they visit by car.    ;-T


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Offline Loftness

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2014, 03:50:30 PM »


I just showed this one to Jenn, she really likes it.

Hmmmmmm.

I don't really WANT to buy a Bonnie...

 ~; ~; ~; ~; ~; ~;
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2014, 04:00:09 PM »
Smart move in marketing the model to new customers - make it a bit lower too as well as safer, without changing the winning retro look!

 ;-T

------------

Translated page re 6 speed tranny: "The V7 II (commercially available from November) debuts a new six-speed transmission with new ratios, which allows to approximate the first and the last two reports?, decreasing the drop in speed between one gear to another.  Together with the change has been the subject of improvements also the clutch to get a command softer."" ???

Lower first would be good for a dirt bike too .... hmmm
« Last Edit: September 25, 2014, 04:10:17 PM by Penderic »

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2014, 04:45:25 PM »
With the single TB bikes with the MUIG controller or whatever its called the way it was explained to me is that although it looks like a conventional, cable controlled, butterfly in the throttle body it is in fact a sort of hybrid 'Semi-ride by wire' system.

Yes, when you twist the throttle it turns a cam on the side of the throttle body but the actual 'Physical' twist only opens the throttle plate a small amount, this is to allow the bike to still be able to limp home if something goes wrong with the controller. When everything is working correctly though once past this stage of very small opening the cam plate and shaft simply activate the demand sensor in the same way that is done on the full RBW machines although on those the demand sensor is located remote from the throttle bodies. From there using all the inputs available the ECU, (Also integral to the MUIG unit.) calculates the position needed for the throttle plate and it is moved there and an appropriate amount of fuel and spark advance is delivered.

Now I hasten to add that this is how it was explained to me very early in the piece by the tech boffin at the importer but that was very early days. This explanation was contradicted by Mike Haven who believed it was a 'Conventional' butterfly control. I have never had the opportunity to examine one closely, much less tear one to bits unfortunately!

As for the idle control? Well, the single TB bikes don't have a separate stepper motor, nor do they appear to have any reference made to an air-over-idle speed control. The way the engine behaves when started is also extremely similar to the Cali 14 which IS a full RBW system. Press the starter button and the engine will fire up and race for a second before it drops back to a slightly erratic idle that then should stabilise over a few seconds as the ECU adjusts the timing and mixture decay figures.

I'd love to be able to get to the bottom of this and find out definitively exactly how it works, problem is that quite simply the factory doesn't tell US grunt-level types very much and that makes it very frustrating. We are just told 'Plug in PADS and if it says something is FUBAR replace it.' GAKKK! Sorry, I can't work like that!

Pete

lucydad

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2014, 04:46:08 PM »
How about that.

Offline Semper-guzzi

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2014, 04:46:16 PM »
I have not ridden a V7 yet, but I most certainly will be test riding this one.
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Offline LaGrasta

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2014, 05:20:33 PM »
Surprisingly, i like these mods, together they add up to an even better bike. So often newer models leave me satisfied with what I have. This time, I may actually be envious. Kudos to MG for their continued push forward.
You can buy style, but you have to build character.

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2014, 05:35:46 PM »
I like that they got rid of the dagoed look. Wonder how much extra all the little boxes are going to cost us.

Offline sib

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2014, 05:37:46 PM »
The announced updates are everything on my list of what I would want changed.  I like my '13 V7 Stone very much, and I'll very likely switch to a V7 II Stone as soon as I can get my hands on one.  I may never actually need the ABS and traction control, but we never know, do we?  The 6th gear will come in handy, since I do sometimes instinctively try to shift to 6th when I'm traveling above 70 mph.  And yes, I could use more leg room behind the cylinder heads.

Regarding whether or not the MIU G3 unit is RBW, I believe I read something from the manufacturer (Marelli) that agrees with Vasco DG's description:  The throttle cables move what is essentially a potentiometer that, in turn, actuates a throttle stepper motor under control of the other ECU inputs.  Whether or not there is a mechanical "limp home" backup involved, I can't answer.
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2014, 06:01:03 PM »
The regulator is different. Supposed to have more a bit more electric power I recall.

Offline CND

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Offline kevdog3019

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2014, 08:23:33 PM »
Looks good with the engine more forward and slimmer trans case.  I think a 6th gear is a good idea on the current V7.  Give it more 4-valve heads instead please! Traction control, etc. pfft.
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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2014, 09:50:27 PM »
With the single TB bikes with the MUIG controller or whatever its called the way it was explained to me is that although it looks like a conventional, cable controlled, butterfly in the throttle body it is in fact a sort of hybrid 'Semi-ride by wire' system.

Yes, when you twist the throttle it turns a cam on the side of the throttle body but the actual 'Physical' twist only opens the throttle plate a small amount, this is to allow the bike to still be able to limp home if something goes wrong with the controller. When everything is working correctly though once past this stage of very small opening the cam plate and shaft simply activate the demand sensor in the same way that is done on the full RBW machines although on those the demand sensor is located remote from the throttle bodies. From there using all the inputs available the ECU, (Also integral to the MUIG unit.) calculates the position needed for the throttle plate and it is moved there and an appropriate amount of fuel and spark advance is delivered.

Now I hasten to add that this is how it was explained to me very early in the piece by the tech boffin at the importer but that was very early days. This explanation was contradicted by Mike Haven who believed it was a 'Conventional' butterfly control. I have never had the opportunity to examine one closely, much less tear one to bits unfortunately!

As for the idle control? Well, the single TB bikes don't have a separate stepper motor, nor do they appear to have any reference made to an air-over-idle speed control. The way the engine behaves when started is also extremely similar to the Cali 14 which IS a full RBW system. Press the starter button and the engine will fire up and race for a second before it drops back to a slightly erratic idle that then should stabilise over a few seconds as the ECU adjusts the timing and mixture decay figures.

I'd love to be able to get to the bottom of this and find out definitively exactly how it works, problem is that quite simply the factory doesn't tell US grunt-level types very much and that makes it very frustrating. We are just told 'Plug in PADS and if it says something is FUBAR replace it.' GAKKK! Sorry, I can't work like that!

Pete

:-X Ha ha...I give up trying to understand it.

I'm now convinced it simply works by witchcraft. :D
Current Fleet

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13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

Penderic

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Re: 2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2014, 12:52:56 AM »
I was looking at some links and got to thinking how close Moto Guzzi is to topping the Triumph and Kawasaki retro standards, feature for feature, save horsepower compared to the larger bigger bulkier heavier Triumph twins.

The Kawasaki 800 isn't sold in all the same markets but I am guessing they would have sold more numbers of the 800 compared to the V7.
Still looking for the model sales figures to be sure but one 2014 sales stats available for 250cc and above sales for Kawasaki: = 34000 units sold first half of this year.)

A bit more displacement and power and the V7 would take a lot more sales away from the competition! .......  :pop

 

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