Author Topic: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?  (Read 32573 times)

Offline bad Chad

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #90 on: April 04, 2014, 04:03:07 PM »
By who?
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Offline frans belgium

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #91 on: December 01, 2014, 03:06:21 AM »
As I told before in this thread, the dashboard of my Norge  fogs up from time to time.
You need to know that my previous Breva 1100 dash did exactly the same after 2 years before it finally gave up - out of warranty.
I know from that time that a new one costs a ridiculous 800+ euro.  Luckily Todd had a spare one on his shelf and helped me out at a much lower cost.

My Norge turns 2 years within 2 months, so I asked my dealer for a replacement under warranty.
I got the same answer I got last time: fogging up is not enough for Piaggio to justify replacement.  There have to be water drops and you must take a picture.
A few weeks ago, ther WERE drops for the first time,but sunshine and weather conditions did not allow for a decent picture with a cell phone and by the time I got home, the drops were gone.

So obviously the Norge dashboard IS getting worse and is still the same crap that was in my Breva (Piaggio, what are you thinking?).
Piaggio must know that,but gives me the finger.  
This makes me mad.

I talked to a fellow rider and he suggested a high pressure cleaner to 'produce some water drops' ~;

It will most likely come to this.  How sad can it get  >:(
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 03:45:59 AM by frans belgium »
Owned and sold: V65, Nevada, 2xCali, Breva 1100, Norge 8V, Breva 1100 with Squire sidecar
Currently own: V85 TT

Offline beuwiq

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #92 on: December 30, 2016, 04:44:54 PM »
2007 Breva 850 dash failed at about 24,000 km

Offline ohiorider

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #93 on: December 30, 2016, 05:34:42 PM »
LCD display began to fail sporadically at 62,000 miles .... total LCD failure at 63,000.  Only the LCD failed.  All the analog instruments, speedo, tach and fuel gauge still worked.  Carmo could not repair it, and returned it.  In the meantime I picked up a Breva 1100 dash from a forum member, which has been working ok for the past several weeks.
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #93 on: December 30, 2016, 05:34:42 PM »

Offline bad Chad

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #94 on: December 30, 2016, 05:43:43 PM »
I have had no issue with my dash.
2007 Breva 1100  Red Arrow (and faster than yours!)
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Offline Kiwi Dave

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Offline Caffeineo

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #96 on: December 31, 2016, 07:09:02 AM »
New to me 2008 1200S had the dash replaced (around 28K at the time of failure/replacement) by the previous owner. No problems with the new dash in the 1K or so miles I have put on it.
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Offline twodogs

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #97 on: December 31, 2016, 07:35:51 AM »
25k no problem yet,  08 1200s
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Offline steven c

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #98 on: December 31, 2016, 07:57:35 AM »
 I would not mine having a modern Guzzi but the dash problems keep me away. Is it a not if but when issue or just an unlucky few?
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Offline drums4money

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #99 on: December 31, 2016, 11:40:05 AM »
Piaggio hosed me when my dash went sour.

So what does one do if they wanted to build a track-focussed bike off of the 1200S what with all the dependent processes residing within the electronic dash?? 

If one is able to create a fully functioning enjoyable bike without the suspect dash, then wouldn't one also be able to use more reliable alternatives such as the GPS speedo's shown on other threads, or the great looking moto-gadget bits that regularly appear on the custom built bikes (including Guzzi's) that pop up regularly on bike.exif?

If there were a reasonable scenario where the swap could be done without a huge exercise in chasing phantoms, then I'd be telling people I plan on keeping my 1200S for the rest of my supernatural life.

hypocrite, four flusher, snake in the grass, just a swindler and wolf in sheep's clothing...liar

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Offline ohiorider

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #100 on: December 31, 2016, 01:30:06 PM »
Here's my thought on the dashboard failure issue:

- Guzzi didn't build the dash, it's an item they purchase from a 3rd party supplier.
- Since Guzzi purchased the dash from a 3rd party supplier, they should be beating up said supplier to make it right.
- Making it right might consist of nothing other than Guzzi getting the mfg to agree to sell us replacement dashes at the same price (cost) Guzzi pays the mfg.  Probably 30-40% of what Guzzi asks us for a new one if we purchase thru a dealer.

Or even better, simply replacing dashes that fail at no cost to the owner.  I'd gladly have exchanged my defective dash for a new 'improved' one that worked.  It was unfortunate it took a class-action suit to force Ducati to do the right thing with their plastic gas tanks.  It shouldn't require that amount of pressure for a mfg to step up to the plate.

I love my 1200 Sport, but this has always been a sore spot for me.  It indicated that  Piaggio didn't know how to work with one of their suppliers to make it right for many of us that purchased CARC bikes with the 'time bomb' dashboard.

Bob

Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
2014 Honda CB1100 (Traded Nov 2019)
New:  2016 Triumph T120 (Traded Dec 2021)
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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #101 on: December 31, 2016, 01:47:21 PM »
It's not too hard to apply a conformal coating as I described for my Griso:

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=84968.0

Anyone buying a new dash would be foolish not to apply one, I suggest.

Moto

Offline ohiorider

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #102 on: December 31, 2016, 08:29:37 PM »
Let me post this again ................... .......

Here's my thought on the dashboard failure issue:

- Guzzi didn't build the dash, it's an item they purchase from a 3rd party supplier.
- Since Guzzi purchased the dash from a 3rd party supplier, they should be beating up said supplier to make it right.
- Making it right might consist of nothing other than Guzzi getting the mfg to agree to sell us replacement dashes at the same price (cost) Guzzi pays the mfg.  Probably 30-40% of what Guzzi asks us for a new one if we purchase thru a dealer.

Or even better, simply replacing dashes that fail at no cost to the owner.  I'd gladly have exchanged my defective dash for a new 'improved' one that worked.  It was unfortunate it took a class-action suit to force Ducati to do the right thing with their plastic gas tanks.  It shouldn't require that amount of pressure for a mfg to step up to the plate.

I love my 1200 Sport, but this has always been a sore spot for me.  It indicated that  Piaggio didn't know how to work with one of their suppliers to make it right for many of us that purchased CARC bikes with the 'time bomb' dashboard.

Bob
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
2014 Honda CB1100 (Traded Nov 2019)
New:  2016 Triumph T120 (Traded Dec 2021)
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Offline beuwiq

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #103 on: January 21, 2017, 04:34:48 PM »
LCD display began to fail sporadically at 62,000 miles .... total LCD failure at 63,000.  Only the LCD failed.  All the analog instruments, speedo, tach and fuel gauge still worked.  Carmo could not repair it, and returned it.  In the meantime I picked up a Breva 1100 dash from a forum member, which has been working ok for the past several weeks.

Exactly how mine failed. Just the LCD every other thing works. But Sad part is I haven't gotten a replacement. So I just use it that way  :cheesy:

Offline beuwiq

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #104 on: January 21, 2017, 04:42:55 PM »
Let me post this again ................... .......

Here's my thought on the dashboard failure issue:

- Guzzi didn't build the dash, it's an item they purchase from a 3rd party supplier.
- Since Guzzi purchased the dash from a 3rd party supplier, they should be beating up said supplier to make it right.
- Making it right might consist of nothing other than Guzzi getting the mfg to agree to sell us replacement dashes at the same price (cost) Guzzi pays the mfg.  Probably 30-40% of what Guzzi asks us for a new one if we purchase thru a dealer.

Or even better, simply replacing dashes that fail at no cost to the owner.  I'd gladly have exchanged my defective dash for a new 'improved' one that worked.  It was unfortunate it took a class-action suit to force Ducati to do the right thing with their plastic gas tanks.  It shouldn't require that amount of pressure for a mfg to step up to the plate.

I love my 1200 Sport, but this has always been a sore spot for me.  It indicated that  Piaggio didn't know how to work with one of their suppliers to make it right for many of us that purchased CARC bikes with the 'time bomb' dashboard.

Bob

Nicely said Bob, but do we have a Moto Guzzi Rep on this forum? And how can we get this our displeasure across the right ears? For a while I thought it was just my Breva 850 that had the issue, then my friend got an almost new Breva 850 and his LCD packed up under 10,000Km. The LCD is where you get all the information you need about the bike. It's sad how Piaggio won't pay good attention to this issue

Offline Darren Williams

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #105 on: January 21, 2017, 06:11:52 PM »
I traded my 1200 Sport in because the second dash started going south. Traded it for a Stelvio, then when it got totaled in a deer strike, I went a different direction away from Guzzi. Only my wife's Breva 750 remains.  Would love a Griso, but moving back to Japanese products.

I love the bikes, just not the little bits that are troublesome and expensive.
The best part of riding a motorcycle is to tilt the horizon and to lift the front coming out of a corner and to drift the back end powering thru loose dirt and to catch a little air topping a hill and... yeah it's all good!

Offline flip

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #106 on: January 21, 2017, 10:18:44 PM »
I traded my 1200 Sport in because the second dash started going south. Traded it for a Stelvio, then when it got totaled in a deer strike, I went a different direction away from Guzzi. Only my wife's Breva 750 remains.  Would love a Griso, but moving back to Japanese products.

I love the bikes, just not the little bits that are troublesome and expensive.

What did you replace your Stelvio with?
North Carolina

Offline ITSec

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #107 on: January 22, 2017, 12:45:27 AM »
While there seem to be some bikes that have had this problem, I still can't say I've seen anything like an analysis of when/why/how the failures may be linked or correlated.

For what it's worth, my 2008 Norge has not had any dash issues - and it has 121,000+ miles on it. If it fails I'm gonna be annoyed, not so much because of the failure - I am a bit proud of that odometer reading!
ITSecurity
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Offline Darren Williams

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #108 on: January 22, 2017, 08:45:22 AM »
What did you replace your Stelvio with?

Technically an FJR (with the insurance money), but picked up a used R1200GS as a long distance tourer as a stop gap. Wasn't planning on keeping the GS, but it's still holding a place in the garage.
The best part of riding a motorcycle is to tilt the horizon and to lift the front coming out of a corner and to drift the back end powering thru loose dirt and to catch a little air topping a hill and... yeah it's all good!

Offline flip

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #109 on: January 22, 2017, 10:05:22 AM »
Technically an FJR (with the insurance money), but picked up a used R1200GS as a long distance tourer as a stop gap. Wasn't planning on keeping the GS, but it's still holding a place in the garage.

Nice!  :thumb:
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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #110 on: January 22, 2017, 11:03:48 AM »
While there seem to be some bikes that have had this problem, I still can't say I've seen anything like an analysis of when/why/how the failures may be linked or correlated.

Well I did my level best to analyze why the problem occurs in individual dashes, in the first of a long series of posts, here: http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=84968.msg1340158#msg1340158. In short, the problem is moisture in what amounts to a poorly-vented terrarium (that cannot be sealed because of an electronic sensor).

As for links or correlations among failed bikes, I doubt you mean the possibility that an occurrence in a given bike directly affects the probability of one in some other particular bike. That would hardly make sense.

So an analysis of shared factors -- environmental, usage, or modifications -- that induce correlations in the chances of bikes having failures is what you mean. (Right?) To make a good analysis of those factors would require good statistical sampling, which we don't and probably can never have. All we have is anecdotal evidence.

The best scientific instrument we have for the factors that affect the chances of having the problem is a good human observer and sifter of the anecdotal evidence. In my opinion, one of our members has shown the most sustained effort in this regard: Pete Roper.

Pete says Brevas have more problems than Grisos, and that Australia, which is dry, has few problem cases. The evidence I've seen is consistent with those observations. Both are consistent with the poorly-vented terrarium model.

Dry Australia has little moisture to introduce to the terrarium.

As I mentioned before, the Breva's extra vulnerability is consistent with the model because the Breva's dash has more volume in the PCB enclosure, and therefore provides more condensed water to collect on the PCB when the temperature drops. (Minimizing the air volume is an obvious strategy to combat the problem, and was followed pretty well in the Griso's case.)

What more analysis do you propose?

Moto

P.S. Though I completely disclaim being an engineer, I am essentially a statistician and modeler, and understand what the data limitations mean here for formal analysis.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 11:05:33 AM by Moto »

Offline Kiwi Dave

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #111 on: January 22, 2017, 01:19:04 PM »
In short, the problem is moisture in what amounts to a poorly-vented terrarium (that cannot be sealed because of an electronic sensor).

I guess I should know, but don't.  What is the electronic sensor located in the dashboard for?

Moto

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #112 on: January 22, 2017, 02:30:48 PM »
Air pressure sensor, used to adjust the fuel-air ratio.

Offline ITSec

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #113 on: January 22, 2017, 03:26:47 PM »
Well I did my level best to analyze why the problem occurs in individual dashes, in the first of a long series of posts, here: http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=84968.msg1340158#msg1340158. In short, the problem is moisture in what amounts to a poorly-vented terrarium (that cannot be sealed because of an electronic sensor).

As for links or correlations among failed bikes, I doubt you mean the possibility that an occurrence in a given bike directly affects the probability of one in some other particular bike. That would hardly make sense.

So an analysis of shared factors -- environmental, usage, or modifications -- that induce correlations in the chances of bikes having failures is what you mean. (Right?) To make a good analysis of those factors would require good statistical sampling, which we don't and probably can never have. All we have is anecdotal evidence.

The best scientific instrument we have for the factors that affect the chances of having the problem is a good human observer and sifter of the anecdotal evidence. In my opinion, one of our members has shown the most sustained effort in this regard: Pete Roper.

Pete says Brevas have more problems than Grisos, and that Australia, which is dry, has few problem cases. The evidence I've seen is consistent with those observations. Both are consistent with the poorly-vented terrarium model.

Dry Australia has little moisture to introduce to the terrarium.

As I mentioned before, the Breva's extra vulnerability is consistent with the model because the Breva's dash has more volume in the PCB enclosure, and therefore provides more condensed water to collect on the PCB when the temperature drops. (Minimizing the air volume is an obvious strategy to combat the problem, and was followed pretty well in the Griso's case.)

What more analysis do you propose?

Moto

P.S. Though I completely disclaim being an engineer, I am essentially a statistician and modeler, and understand what the data limitations mean here for formal analysis.

My comment was not to criticize the examination of specific failures but to point up the very fact you mention - we're going on anecdotal evidence with not a lot to say what people should watch out for, whether particular bikes are more likely to see this problem, and so on. Why do bikes that share basically the same dash (Norge, Griso and Breva) have such apparently different outcomes? Your discussion of volume in the enclosure is helpful, but I'm not sure whether you had the chance to include the Norge dash in that assessment. The range of weather protection goes from none (Griso) to a bit (Breva) to full (Norge); that might prevent water intrusion, but also reduces air circulation - but this is mostly theory, or more than likely a SWAG (by me and others - I don't exclude my own lack of knowledge). BTW, SWAG is a term statistics types (including myself) are quite familiar with  :grin:

With other problems, such as the oil pump issue or early 8v top ends, we (and later Piaggio) were able to identify a range of production that had a problem. In some cases, we've been able to come to the conclusion that a design or suitability problem is relatively universal and permanent (like the failure rate of the oil pressure sender). From the information so far, it seems more like the latter - but not nearly so common, and much more (anecdotally) related to local climate.

I'll ask the assembled wisdom, however, a question that I know will bring some strong responses: If the number of failures is too few to allow analysis of them as a group, is the overall problem big enough to demand more than awareness and a watchful eye from those not (yet) affected? I know it's difficult and sometimes expensive for those affected, but is it a 'problem' for the brand or the models involved?
ITSecurity
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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #114 on: January 22, 2017, 04:48:58 PM »
My comment was not to criticize the examination of specific failures but to point up the very fact you mention - we're going on anecdotal evidence with not a lot to say what people should watch out for, whether particular bikes are more likely to see this problem, and so on. Why do bikes that share basically the same dash (Norge, Griso and Breva) have such apparently different outcomes? Your discussion of volume in the enclosure is helpful, but I'm not sure whether you had the chance to include the Norge dash in that assessment.

The Norge and 1200 Sport seem to share the same (higher-volume) dash with the Breva. The Stelvio appears to have the same dash as the Griso. [EDIT: and the Bellagio.] But I have never seen inside those, so I'm just judging from their faces.

Quote
The range of weather protection goes from none (Griso) to a bit (Breva) to full (Norge); that might prevent water intrusion, but also reduces air circulation - but this is mostly theory, or more than likely a SWAG (by me and others - I don't exclude my own lack of knowledge). BTW, SWAG is a term statistics types (including myself) are quite familiar with  :grin:

SWAG -- which I had to google -- is not a term used by statisticians, to my knowledge. What is a "statistics type"?

Quote
...[If the number of failures is too few to allow analysis of them as a group, is the overall problem big enough to demand more than awareness and a watchful eye from those not (yet) affected?

The problem is not the number of observations but the selective manner in which they have been collected. Increasing the size of a biased sample -- which our voluntary responses are almost guaranteed to be -- only increases the problem. This is a confusion which we try to clear up in the first statistics class.

I believe that we will never have the right kind of data here to justify a statistical conclusion, but I've read enough reports of failures (often repeated failures) to believe an ounce of prevention could be worth a pound of cure. The cure ounce I recommend is based on reading about the effects of moisture on electronics, examining reports of failures, opening my own dash, and theorizing about the situation.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 05:29:01 PM by Moto »

Offline ohiorider

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #115 on: January 23, 2017, 08:30:51 AM »
On this topic ............. I am using a replacement dash from a B11 on my 12S.  I had initially sent my 12S dash to Carmo for repairs, but it seems they cannot source the LCD display to fix my original dash.  All analog instruments work on my original dash, just no LCD.

I've entertained the thought of sending them both units (after talking with them) to see if they could remove the LCD from the B11 dash, and install it in my 12S dash.  Of course, there's always the chance that I'd end up with 2 non-functioning dashboards.

Thoughts from anyone who has dismantled a dash as to the feasibility of swapping LCD panels?

« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 09:13:43 AM by ohiorider »
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
2014 Honda CB1100 (Traded Nov 2019)
New:  2016 Triumph T120 (Traded Dec 2021)
New:  2021 Kawasaki W800

Offline Bisbonian

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #116 on: January 23, 2017, 09:43:28 AM »
I don't know how many years it's been since I sent my 1200 Sport dash off to Carmo to get it fixed.
The dash I was using at the time worked fine except that it indicated one of the turn signal bulbs was burned out and blinked fast on one side even though all bulbs were good.
Carmo fixed the flasher circuit that had been water damaged and then laid down a double layer of waterproofing to seal it all up.

At this point I've had this repaired, and waterproofed, dash in my 1200 Sport for the majority of the time I've had this motorcycle, I bought it new in 2009.

I still have one spare dash which has the same failing turn signal flasher in it, although it's dried out enough now that if I install it in the bike I have to problems with it. I've considered selling this dash however it has a good LCD in it which means that I'm going to keep it, just in case...

Moto (I think it was you, right?) had a great write-up on the Griso dash and putting in some waterproofing along with fixing the damaged circuit. Some, possibly Moto?, also suggested that some cell phone repair shops could lay down this waterproofing if you don't find yourself capable. I think that if this waterproofing were to be applied prior to damage to the circuits that these dash units would be reliable and stop being an issue. I know that my repaired dash doesn't even enter into my thoughts any longer.

Hoping I haven't spoken too soon.

Offline tawb1100

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #117 on: January 23, 2017, 10:00:04 AM »
O6 Breva 41,000 miles.  No failure.  I've been holding my breath for years.

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #118 on: January 23, 2017, 10:46:43 AM »
I don't know how many years it's been since I sent my 1200 Sport dash off to Carmo to get it fixed.
The dash I was using at the time worked fine except that it indicated one of the turn signal bulbs was burned out and blinked fast on one side even though all bulbs were good.
Carmo fixed the flasher circuit that had been water damaged and then laid down a double layer of waterproofing to seal it all up.

At this point I've had this repaired, and waterproofed, dash in my 1200 Sport for the majority of the time I've had this motorcycle, I bought it new in 2009.

I still have one spare dash which has the same failing turn signal flasher in it, although it's dried out enough now that if I install it in the bike I have to problems with it. I've considered selling this dash however it has a good LCD in it which means that I'm going to keep it, just in case...

Moto (I think it was you, right?) had a great write-up on the Griso dash and putting in some waterproofing along with fixing the damaged circuit. Some, possibly Moto?, also suggested that some cell phone repair shops could lay down this waterproofing if you don't find yourself capable. I think that if this waterproofing were to be applied prior to damage to the circuits that these dash units would be reliable and stop being an issue. I know that my repaired dash doesn't even enter into my thoughts any longer.

Hoping I haven't spoken too soon.

Yes, those were my posts, except that I didn't have to do any circuit repairs since my PCB still looked brand new.

I would be interested in learning whether Carmo actually coated both surfaces of the PCB, or only double-coated the more accessible lower surface. I did both surfaces on my Griso, though I think the lower surface is the bigger worry.

Good luck!

Offline jas67

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Re: Has your Breva, Norge or 12 Sport Dash failed and had to be replaced?
« Reply #119 on: January 23, 2017, 11:03:22 AM »
Kev M had just over 15k trouble free miles with the B11 before I bought it.   The dash failed 2k miles later.
The replacement failed 7k after that one.

I used the bike to commute, so, it got rained on quite a bit, and also was ridden in very moist, sometimes foggy conditions, as it sometimes seems like 50% of mornings here are like that.

Now, I'm sure Kev didn't put 15k miles on it w/o getting it wet, but, I'm thinking it probably was wet more often in my ownership.

Maybe this is what precipitated (or should I say precipitated) the failures?

It still doesn't make it excusable that Moto Guzzi does nothing about it, but, could explain why some owneres can go 60+k miles w/o a failure, and others fail much sooner.

2017 V7III Special
1977 Le Mans
1974 Eldorado
2017 Triumph Thruxton R
2013 Ducati Monster 796, 2013 848 Evo Corse SE, 1974 750GT, 1970 Mk3d 450 Desmo, 1966 Monza 250
1975 Moto Morini 3 1/2
2007 Vespa GTS250
2016 BMW R1200RS, 80 R100S, 76 R90S ,73 R75/5
76 Honda CB400F, 67 305 Super Hawk, 68 CL175

 

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