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Has anyone taken a failed dash apart to see if anything is obviously amiss?
LCD display began to fail sporadically at 62,000 miles .... total LCD failure at 63,000. Only the LCD failed. All the analog instruments, speedo, tach and fuel gauge still worked. Carmo could not repair it, and returned it. In the meantime I picked up a Breva 1100 dash from a forum member, which has been working ok for the past several weeks.
Let me post this again ................... .......Here's my thought on the dashboard failure issue:- Guzzi didn't build the dash, it's an item they purchase from a 3rd party supplier.- Since Guzzi purchased the dash from a 3rd party supplier, they should be beating up said supplier to make it right.- Making it right might consist of nothing other than Guzzi getting the mfg to agree to sell us replacement dashes at the same price (cost) Guzzi pays the mfg. Probably 30-40% of what Guzzi asks us for a new one if we purchase thru a dealer.Or even better, simply replacing dashes that fail at no cost to the owner. I'd gladly have exchanged my defective dash for a new 'improved' one that worked. It was unfortunate it took a class-action suit to force Ducati to do the right thing with their plastic gas tanks. It shouldn't require that amount of pressure for a mfg to step up to the plate.I love my 1200 Sport, but this has always been a sore spot for me. It indicated that Piaggio didn't know how to work with one of their suppliers to make it right for many of us that purchased CARC bikes with the 'time bomb' dashboard.Bob
I traded my 1200 Sport in because the second dash started going south. Traded it for a Stelvio, then when it got totaled in a deer strike, I went a different direction away from Guzzi. Only my wife's Breva 750 remains. Would love a Griso, but moving back to Japanese products.I love the bikes, just not the little bits that are troublesome and expensive.
What did you replace your Stelvio with?
Technically an FJR (with the insurance money), but picked up a used R1200GS as a long distance tourer as a stop gap. Wasn't planning on keeping the GS, but it's still holding a place in the garage.
While there seem to be some bikes that have had this problem, I still can't say I've seen anything like an analysis of when/why/how the failures may be linked or correlated.
In short, the problem is moisture in what amounts to a poorly-vented terrarium (that cannot be sealed because of an electronic sensor).
Well I did my level best to analyze why the problem occurs in individual dashes, in the first of a long series of posts, here: http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=84968.msg1340158#msg1340158. In short, the problem is moisture in what amounts to a poorly-vented terrarium (that cannot be sealed because of an electronic sensor).As for links or correlations among failed bikes, I doubt you mean the possibility that an occurrence in a given bike directly affects the probability of one in some other particular bike. That would hardly make sense.So an analysis of shared factors -- environmental, usage, or modifications -- that induce correlations in the chances of bikes having failures is what you mean. (Right?) To make a good analysis of those factors would require good statistical sampling, which we don't and probably can never have. All we have is anecdotal evidence. The best scientific instrument we have for the factors that affect the chances of having the problem is a good human observer and sifter of the anecdotal evidence. In my opinion, one of our members has shown the most sustained effort in this regard: Pete Roper.Pete says Brevas have more problems than Grisos, and that Australia, which is dry, has few problem cases. The evidence I've seen is consistent with those observations. Both are consistent with the poorly-vented terrarium model. Dry Australia has little moisture to introduce to the terrarium. As I mentioned before, the Breva's extra vulnerability is consistent with the model because the Breva's dash has more volume in the PCB enclosure, and therefore provides more condensed water to collect on the PCB when the temperature drops. (Minimizing the air volume is an obvious strategy to combat the problem, and was followed pretty well in the Griso's case.)What more analysis do you propose?MotoP.S. Though I completely disclaim being an engineer, I am essentially a statistician and modeler, and understand what the data limitations mean here for formal analysis.
My comment was not to criticize the examination of specific failures but to point up the very fact you mention - we're going on anecdotal evidence with not a lot to say what people should watch out for, whether particular bikes are more likely to see this problem, and so on. Why do bikes that share basically the same dash (Norge, Griso and Breva) have such apparently different outcomes? Your discussion of volume in the enclosure is helpful, but I'm not sure whether you had the chance to include the Norge dash in that assessment.
The range of weather protection goes from none (Griso) to a bit (Breva) to full (Norge); that might prevent water intrusion, but also reduces air circulation - but this is mostly theory, or more than likely a SWAG (by me and others - I don't exclude my own lack of knowledge). BTW, SWAG is a term statistics types (including myself) are quite familiar with
...[If the number of failures is too few to allow analysis of them as a group, is the overall problem big enough to demand more than awareness and a watchful eye from those not (yet) affected?
I don't know how many years it's been since I sent my 1200 Sport dash off to Carmo to get it fixed.The dash I was using at the time worked fine except that it indicated one of the turn signal bulbs was burned out and blinked fast on one side even though all bulbs were good. Carmo fixed the flasher circuit that had been water damaged and then laid down a double layer of waterproofing to seal it all up.At this point I've had this repaired, and waterproofed, dash in my 1200 Sport for the majority of the time I've had this motorcycle, I bought it new in 2009.I still have one spare dash which has the same failing turn signal flasher in it, although it's dried out enough now that if I install it in the bike I have to problems with it. I've considered selling this dash however it has a good LCD in it which means that I'm going to keep it, just in case...Moto (I think it was you, right?) had a great write-up on the Griso dash and putting in some waterproofing along with fixing the damaged circuit. Some, possibly Moto?, also suggested that some cell phone repair shops could lay down this waterproofing if you don't find yourself capable. I think that if this waterproofing were to be applied prior to damage to the circuits that these dash units would be reliable and stop being an issue. I know that my repaired dash doesn't even enter into my thoughts any longer.Hoping I haven't spoken too soon.