Chinese Alternator problem on a Stelvio NTX

[pyoungbl]

My BMW G650GS engine was assembled in China.  Those engines had less problems than the ones from 'the old country', particularly concerning the water pump.  Ducati, Triumph, and Honda all make motorcycles/parts in China.  My mill, lathe, table saw (Delta), band saw, planer (Delta), jointer (Delta) all came from China.  The Chinese factories will make to whatever quality level you are willing to pay.  You want cheap...can do.  You want high quality...not a problem, just costs a bit more.

[steamdriven NZ]

For all those people who spout "if it ain't Boeing, I'm not going!" well.......
Working on the 737NG's you find 'Made in All Sorts Of Places" stamped on all sorts of parts. Last night doing a hydraulic system internal leakage test on the A and B systems I noted both the Parker Hannifin pumps fitted had "Made in China" clearly stamped on them......
Happy Flying! Me personally, I'd be quite happy to.......

Sorry for the thread hijack/drift.  :)

[rodekyll]

Another problem with the PM magnet alternators is that the rotor picks up magnetic swarf while sitting around waiting to be reinstalled.  I got a bike cheap once because they couldn't find the charging system problem.  I pulled the alternator apart and found that it had collected so much metallic crap that it had ground out the inside of the stator. 

[pyoungbl]

Just to bring this thread back to life (since someone else is having charging problems on a Stelvio)...what was the final diagnosis?  Fess up.

Peter Y.

[rodekyll]

Also, we know you can't get a longer alternator into the space.  But can you get a fatter one in there?

[brenwin]

We just want to make sure there is not a feed back circuit or some other difference inside the Alt that is specific to the NTX, Norge 8V and Cali 1400 models that is not on the Bosch Griso Alt.  From what we have been told, the ECU receives a signal from the charging circuit before supplying voltage to certain electrical circuits.

About ten miles before the battery went dead, we noticed the headlights on the bike shut down.  I guess when the voltage drops, the ECU diverts all power to the ignition system and puts it in limp mode.  We did not know the Alt was not charging, as we never saw a warning light and the bike was running fine.  All of a sudden it just died and would not restart.  We checked and the battery was dead.  With all the trouble with this bike, we should have just pushed it into the woods and reported it stolen.....

Ditto for my Stelvio , exact same scenario . The alternator is being taken off as we speak . What a helluva job and am pretty pissed to hear about it's manufacturer . I guess the bottom line is the most important thing to these guys as is a corporation and for some naive reason thought they where a different bunch . I sure hate getting screwed over . Pretty damn frustrating after $16,000 CAD and only 15000 kms . I'd like to throw the old one through the front door of their ivory tower in Italy !
Maybe time to buy that Harley and join the converted .

[brenwin]

If you want to buy a cheap knock off that hasn't had the work put into it you will get what you pay for.
It's a sad day for Guzzi if they are going to stoop so low.


I challenge you to find any mass produced motor vehicle that does not contain at lest some Chinese parts.

I was under this impression these bikes where not mass produced unlike Honda , Yamaha and Suzuki that actually run trouble free !

[pauldaytona]

Harley has chineese parts as well, but I suppose you know that?

And the guzzi is assembled in Mandello by Italiens, an Italian job. Parts come from everywhere, like all things you buy.

[brenwin]

Harley has chineese parts as well, but I suppose you know that?

And the guzzi is assembled in Mandello by Italiens, an Italian job. Parts come from everywhere, like all things you buy.

 Just a little frustrated like we all tend to get when throwing good money after bad . Lots of good Chinese manufacturers , maybe not so great quality control in Italy . My own experience with quirky problems over the years and seeing some of the boondoggles on this site tells me there are definitely quality control issues with these bikes . Something I'm willing to put up with until it's happening to me . My turn in the barrel so to speak .
Another problem surfaced while pulling the alternator which explains the increased vibration the last few hundred miles . The motor mount bolts at the cylinder heads were very loose and had no paint on them which means they may never have been torqued at the factory ! What next ? 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Just to bring this thread back to life (since someone else is having charging problems on a Stelvio)...what was the final diagnosis?  Fess up.

Peter Y.

 :+1
We are all waiting to hear it was NOT the Chinese alternator  ???

[brenwin]

:+1
We are all waiting to hear it was NOT the Chinese alternator  ???

The alternator when removed showed it was not charging . Brushes ok so took to an automotive electrical service garage for further testing hoping it was the regulator . I was quoted $250 for a new alternator by the dealer and told MG had no parts for individual alternators . Turns out the regulator was toast and they actually had one in stock to replace it so once replaced the alternator was good to go . New regulator instead of waiting for a possible used one from the dealer and 3 days to get it here means the Stelvio is in my garage ready to go . Thanks to Duane at Dragonfly Cycle and the guys at Island Rad & Battery I might get a ride in tomorrow .
I should mention the engine mounting bolts to frame at the cylinder heads were very loose which explains the vibration I've been experiencing for a while now . Duane figures they where never torqued as they were not painted . So having the alternator problem might be a blessing otherwise would not of been discovered until a far worse problem could of manifested . Maybe the vibration contributed to the regulator failure , who knows . Much smoother ride now and hope to be problem free for a while . There you go Roy , enough said !  :BEER: 

[Vasco DG]

Can you give me a part # and cross refference for the regulator that they used? I've got a dead alt that I'm trying to resuscitate and knowing the generic # would save me a lot of arseing about.

Thanks.

Pete

[leafman60]

The alternator when removed showed it was not charging . Brushes ok so took to an automotive electrical service garage for further testing hoping it was the regulator . I was quoted $250 for a new alternator by the dealer and told MG had no parts for individual alternators . Turns out the regulator was toast and they actually had one in stock to replace it so once replaced the alternator was good to go . New regulator instead of waiting for a possible used one from the dealer and 3 days to get it here means the Stelvio is in my garage ready to go . Thanks to Duane at Dragonfly Cycle and the guys at Island Rad & Battery I might get a ride in tomorrow .
I should mention the engine mounting bolts to frame at the cylinder heads were very loose which explains the vibration I've been experiencing for a while now . Duane figures they where never torqued as they were not painted . So having the alternator problem might be a blessing otherwise would not of been discovered until a far worse problem could of manifested . Maybe the vibration contributed to the regulator failure , who knows . Much smoother ride now and hope to be problem free for a while . There you go Roy , enough said !  :BEER:  

I wonder why the regulator burned up?

Regarding the engine bolts-

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=65635.0

Also be certain to tighten the hell out of the engine guard mounting points too.  This greatly helped to quell vibes for me.

.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Please give us some more detail on the regulator, is it part of the Chinese alternator?

The Chinese do make some good stuff, but I spent a lot of time there in the last few years, they have a different concept of QA
They may have used a cheap knockoff part somewhere to save a few cents.
I have no doubt they will sort it out if Guzzi threatens to look elsewhere.

We have Chinese customers tell us not to use Chinese parts like bearings in electric motors for instance.

[brenwin]

Yes , the alternator was dismantled , the regulator removed and replaced with a new one which was in stock , thankfully ! So not as bad as originally thought . I probably should get the part number and order one to have with me in case it happens again . I was in a hurry to get the alternator back for install as they wanted to get the bike finished by end of day .
Hows the Eldo restore going ?

[brenwin]

Can you give me a part # and cross refference for the regulator that they used? I've got a dead alt that I'm trying to resuscitate and knowing the generic # would save me a lot of arseing about.

Thanks.

Pete

 I will get it to you first thing Monday morning Pete as soon as they open  , silly of me not to get it when the damn thing was being replaced .

Steve

[ridingron]

We have Chinese customers tell us not to use Chinese parts like bearings in electric motors for instance.

Went over to a friends house to help him with his 'Wing. One of the things to do was an install of some new wheel bearings. He was proud of his score on a couple bearings for $5 each. Yes they were Chinese. I convinced him to at least remove the seal and check for grease. None to be found. The balls were not even kinda shiny. The bearings wore out before the tire. I wanted one of the bearings to check with a file to see if they were even hardened, but he trashed them before I got a set. I am a believer in the old song, you get what you pay for.

[Vasco DG]

I will get it to you first thing Monday morning Pete as soon as they open  , silly of me not to get it when the damn thing was being replaced .

Steve

Thank you very much Steve.

Pete

[Far star]

     Last summer I had the same alternator smoke and die on my 2012 Norge. It happened just as the oil cooler fan came on. I mounted a car battery in the top box pulled the headlight fuse, drove the bike from Edson Alberta to Vancouver. (about 1200km)  I got 37 km per 1/10th volt. There were no Chengdou alternators available in North America...shocking I know. At least through Guzzi. My dealer pulled one out of a new bike. I tried to  find a alternate alternator no joy. So, it would be good to know this other number in case this happens again. Both Moto International and Pacific Motorsports (my dealer) said this was the first one to fail they have heard of (as of last summer).

[brenwin]

Thank you very much Steve.

Pete

The part number is IN254. Hope that's enough info because that's all they gave me . Let me know if it isn't Pete .

Steve

[cj750]

The part number is IN254. Hope that's enough info because that's all they gave me . Let me know if it isn't Pete .

Steve

Did it look like this one?

Appears to be a very widely used part: http://store.alternatorparts.com/in254-voltage-regulator-for-denso-alternators.aspx

[Vasco DG]

Thanks. I'm in Queensland at the moment. Won't be able to chase it up until next week but I'll reprt back then.

Pete

[brenwin]

Did it look like this one?

Appears to be a very widely used part: http://store.alternatorparts.com/in254-voltage-regulator-for-denso-alternators.aspx

That's the one alright . Had it on the shelve at Island Rad and Battery . Was my lucky day !

Steve

[Vasco DG]

Just to dig this up again I picked one up yesterday. Haven't had a chance to fit it to the dead alt yet.

Thanks Steve.

Pete

[Lannis]

Please give us some more detail on the regulator, is it part of the Chinese alternator?

The Chinese do make some good stuff, but I spent a lot of time there in the last few years, they have a different concept of QA
They may have used a cheap knockoff part somewhere to save a few cents.
I have no doubt they will sort it out if Guzzi threatens to look elsewhere.

We have Chinese customers tell us not to use Chinese parts like bearings in electric motors for instance.

Can't be true, Roy.  We're informed by experts here on the WG board that it makes NO difference what country anything comes from any more.   Any country is capable of building crap at times, so that means that Chinese bearings are no more likely to be "bad" than German or Swedish-sourced bearings.   

You can NOT use the country where any component was produced to make any judgment or decision at all about the potential quality of it.   To do so smacks of ... oh, I won't say, but it's ugly and reflects badly on the character of anyone who dares say it.

So tighten up and fly right there.   It's a new world now, get into step!!   ;)

Lannis (It's a small world after all, It's a small world after all, It's a small world after all, it's a small, small world  Sing it with me now, it's a small world after all ....)

[Vasco DG]

Well Lannis the replacement part is made in Korea. :D

I'm going to make a wild assumption and say probably not the North!

Pete

[pyoungbl]

Oddly enough we never did get a follow up from KARL VON, the OP.  What's the deal?  Was it that piece of crap Chinese Alternator, the horrible POS regulator, or maybe just a blown fuze.  Inquiring minds asking.

Peter Y.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Lannis,
            I'm just a bad nasty person, what can I say!
I'm too long in the tooth for this politically correct BS
LOL


Sent from my shoe phone!

[oldbike54]

 Hmm, I don't think anyone was objecting to identifying junk as junk , but rather the idea that the only thing produced in China is junk . Of course once again , nothing better for advancing one's position than reducing an argument to complete absurdity and distorting the other side's position . Let's hope the Chinese have some clue , because almost all of the modern machine tooling used around the world is made in China .

  Dusty

[Lannis]

Hmm, I don't think anyone was objecting to identifying junk as junk , but rather the idea that the only thing produced in China is junk . Of course once again , nothing better for advancing one's position than reducing an argument to complete absurdity and distorting the other side's position . Let's hope the Chinese have some clue , because almost all of the modern machine tooling used around the world is made in China .

  Dusty

Dusty -

The only thing sillier than "reducing an argument to complete absurdity and distorting the other side's position" .... is inventing a position that NO ONE advanced and then act like you're responding to it.

Can you identify ANY post on these two pages full of posts where someone, anyone, said that "the only thing produced in China is junk?"  Or anything like that?   

Lannis