Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dave Swanson on April 22, 2021, 07:33:39 PM

Title: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 22, 2021, 07:33:39 PM
I have had this Norge for 5 years and it only has 1800 miles.  Due to my family commitments time on the bike was limited, but things have changed and the Norge will now be out in its natural element.   The first ride of any length for my Norge will be the WG rally that is right around the corner.  This means that it is finally time to get serious and lube those swingarm and dog bone bearings that usually have only a whisper of grease.

Any of you that have performed this task before, please feel free to pipe up with advice.  I have been referring to the Paul Brice pictorial for the Griso.  Other than that I am venturing into new territory.

(https://i.postimg.cc/V6qF5vd7/IMG_8551.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TLPb4Rjm)
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Scout63 on April 22, 2021, 08:01:32 PM
Definitely the right tool for the job Dave.
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Motormike on April 22, 2021, 08:37:42 PM
My favorite color scheme for the Norge.  Mahogany and Silver... I think it was called?
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 22, 2021, 08:51:33 PM
My favorite color scheme for the Norge.  Mahogany and Silver... I think it was called?

Yes, and some say Espresso and Grappa 
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Huzo on April 22, 2021, 09:39:00 PM
Weíll talk tonight.
On my way home from Roperís for Christopherís Sport roller job. Thereís a little bit to know.
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on April 22, 2021, 10:27:40 PM
Take the Left Hand side plate off, all will be revealed.
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Huzo on April 23, 2021, 05:41:12 AM
A couple of things.
Support the weight of the bike on something other than the centrestand. The removal of the required bolts will allow the bike to settle hazardously under itís own weight. A chain block from above is ideal.
There is not a positive mechanism to reliably prevent the right side swingarm pivot pin seal to become dislodged during reassembly. I made a spacer to go between the seal and the housing face, with a modicum of clearance..(about 10 thouí).
When I first disassembled mine at 90,000 k, after witnessing the dry rollers falling out on the floor and the rusted cage collapsing in pieces, I had the pleasure of seeing the crunched seal laying in the bottom of the housing that had NEVER been in place...!
Donít omit to grease the drive shaft splines before assembly.
Oh and..
Whip the CARC off and check the security of the pinion retaining nut...
(https://i.ibb.co/1TB6LXQ/0-BC05-A58-6-E60-49-EA-9-F37-EB8008-D38-E8-F.png) (https://ibb.co/1TB6LXQ)

 :sad:
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 23, 2021, 05:53:11 AM
Definitely the right tool for the job Dave.

That's a fact. The Norge is the best mile eater I've ever ridden.
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on April 23, 2021, 05:53:54 AM
Sharp looking Norge, Dave! Love that rootbeer color. When it first came out, I thought 'what in the world?' but when I saw it in person, I got it!
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: bobrebos on April 23, 2021, 06:00:25 AM
I dont know how the swingarm bearing grease project goes etc, but wanted to tell you that that is a nice Norge you have there! 
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: blu guzz on April 23, 2021, 06:24:25 AM
favorite colors for me as well.  if i was going to get into that weight class again, that would be the object of my search.
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: PJPR01 on April 23, 2021, 09:15:26 AM
Just my 2 cents, but with a bike with only 1800 miles on it, I'd be hesitant to do that big of a job on the eve of a trip given that it's not a trivial item to do.

In the event you ever decide to sell that beautiful root beer bike, I'd be very tempted...

Looking forward to seeing it at Cedar Vale in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Bulldog9 on April 23, 2021, 09:40:50 AM
This makes me miss mine..... Foolishly traded it for the MGX (which lasted all of 9 months in my herd)  I console myself with having bought a 1200Sport, but in retrospect, I really liked and miss my Norge. Loved that color.

Please keep us posted on your progress/process. I've yet to do this.
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 23, 2021, 11:32:30 AM
Just my 2 cents, but with a bike with only 1800 miles on it, I'd be hesitant to do that big of a job on the eve of a trip given that it's not a trivial item to do.

In the event you ever decide to sell that beautiful root beer bike, I'd be very tempted...

Looking forward to seeing it at Cedar Vale in a few weeks.

Just the reason to get it done.  I know those bearings are dry. 

I am retired and have 10 days to do it.  If I run into trouble I know Huzo will fly up to help.   :laugh:
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Scott of the Sahara on April 23, 2021, 01:32:02 PM
I have never done what you are talking about, my bike has 42,000 and I have had it 11 years.
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 23, 2021, 01:35:30 PM
I have never done what you are talking about, my bike has 42,000 and I have had it 11 years.

Better late than never!!  More than likely your bearings look like this.    It is almost universally found that no grease or very little was added during assembly at the factory. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/y8W2QD6g/image011.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Huzo on April 23, 2021, 02:23:05 PM
Just the reason to get it done.  I know those bearings are dry. 

I am retired and have 10 days to do it.  If I run into trouble I know Huzo will fly up to help.   :laugh:
Iíll take your sport home with me in a rubber canoe..
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Don G on April 23, 2021, 03:41:54 PM
While you are there you should service the steering head bearings as well, the same guy didn't grease those either!  DonG :shocked:
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Huzo on April 23, 2021, 04:05:01 PM
I have never done what you are talking about, my bike has 42,000 and I have had it 11 years.
My bike was giving no signs of distress but I had to take the swingarm out to remove the standard shock.
Speaking of shocks..
The races fell to bits on the floor..!
They can be absolutely buggered and not collapse because they are fundamentally retained in their housings, but why leave them there to die ?
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 23, 2021, 04:18:24 PM
Piece of cake so far!  The swingarm bearings actually had a trace of grease!   :wink:

Next the shock linkages.  I should have her all buttoned up tomorrow.

Huzo you can cancel the Quantas ticket. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/3rksFL1j/IMG-8552.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jCr3s4GC)
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Huzo on April 23, 2021, 05:23:57 PM


Huzo you can cancel the Quantas ticket. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/3rksFL1j/IMG-8552.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jCr3s4GC)
Too late..
Iíve already hired a rubber raft with tie downs for the Sport.
BTW..
Please check the security of the pinion nut.
Pete told me the other day to poke a long screwdriver down past the boot on the CARC, and check that it is not free to rotate.
If all is well, wash it with a degreaser and liberal dose of thread lock, if it lets go youíre rooted..
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 24, 2021, 02:00:37 PM
As I suspected the swingarm bearings were installed dry.  The swingarm outer races had a bit of grease swabbed in the area, but the tapered bearing were bone dry.  No rust though.

(https://i.postimg.cc/fRBhfsBH/IMG-8554.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xXJ79wrH)

The 3 needle bearing sets in the dogbone  had a smidge of grease.  They would have probably been OK.   BUT the forked arm needle bearing was dry as dust. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/qMNnTBCK/IMG-8553.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2Vf3dDGj)

Everything is very well lubed now and back together, mostly.

(https://i.postimg.cc/HLn1SNNT/IMG-8555.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K16Wj0FW)
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 24, 2021, 02:06:20 PM
And Huzo I did Loctite the pinion retaining nut.  It was still tight.  I also lubed the driveshaft spline.   Thanks for the reminders. 
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Huzo on April 24, 2021, 03:21:59 PM
And Huzo I did Loctite the pinion retaining nut.  It was still tight.  I also lubed the driveshaft spline.   Thanks for the reminders.
You have done well grasshopper.
It even looks different, knowing itís done, did you do the gearbox end spline as well ?
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: MGrego on April 24, 2021, 04:43:14 PM
This is the job I keep putting off, my Norge has 16K on it now so maybe I'll dive in. 

I think I remember seeing a step by step on a Stelvio here on WG, is there another source of information you found helpful ?
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on April 24, 2021, 06:20:29 PM
Good job, Dave.. :thumb: Attaboy.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Huzo on April 24, 2021, 09:27:32 PM
Is the pivot pin seal on the right (foot brake) side, firm in itís housing ?
It can be dislodged during reassembly and you wonít know, that will allow the race cavity to fill with water and crud..
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 25, 2021, 12:42:42 AM
Is the pivot pin seal on the right (foot brake) side, firm in itís housing ?
It can be dislodged during reassembly and you wonít know, that will allow the race cavity to fill with water and crud..


All good Huzo.   :kiss:
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Huzo on April 25, 2021, 04:45:10 AM

All good Huzo.   :kiss:
:thumb:
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Scout63 on April 25, 2021, 06:22:36 AM
The job was worth it just for the fact that you wonít start your trip worrying about the bearing Dave. If we all exercised your level of care and competence there would be many more classics on the road today.
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 25, 2021, 08:05:12 AM
Too late..
Iíve already hired a rubber raft with tie downs for the Sport.


The Sport is now sporting new rubber,  Roper sloppage plate, improved return spring, and  LP Extender.   :cheesy:  Finished this just before the Norge service. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/kgFv2Skk/IMG-8536.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xX8z7XjR)
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: flower_king001 on April 25, 2021, 10:20:23 AM
I just wanted to comment on such a wonderful looking shop you have Dave
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 25, 2021, 12:27:54 PM
I just wanted to comment on such a wonderful looking shop you have Dave

I am forever indebted to the original owner who had this house built in 1959.  He was an engineer and made having shop space a priority.   

(https://i.postimg.cc/HxJcNrJw/1056.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TL63LYJ1)

(https://i.postimg.cc/kGHb9xyG/IMG-3284.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WqM3wqCc)
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Tom on April 25, 2021, 04:46:22 PM
A couple of things.
Support the weight of the bike on something other than the centrestand. The removal of the required bolts will allow the bike to settle hazardously under itís own weight. A chain block from above is ideal.
There is not a positive mechanism to reliably prevent the right side swingarm pivot pin seal to become dislodged during reassembly. I made a spacer to go between the seal and the housing face, with a modicum of clearance..(about 10 thouí).
When I first disassembled mine at 90,000 k, after witnessing the dry rollers falling out on the floor and the rusted cage collapsing in pieces, I had the pleasure of seeing the crunched seal laying in the bottom of the housing that had NEVER been in place...!
Donít omit to grease the drive shaft splines before assembly.
Oh and..
Whip the CARC off and check the security of the pinion retaining nut...
(https://i.ibb.co/1TB6LXQ/0-BC05-A58-6-E60-49-EA-9-F37-EB8008-D38-E8-F.png) (https://ibb.co/1TB6LXQ)


Proofread.  Grammar.   :grin:
 :sad:
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Huzo on April 25, 2021, 05:19:01 PM
Hmmm..
I spotted two glaring mistakes...
ďTo become dislodgedĒ should be ďfrom becoming dislodgedĒ
and
ďDo not omit to greaseĒ should be, ď do not omit the grease onĒ
Other than that, I would have to break out the microscope... :popcorn:

Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Tom on April 25, 2021, 05:47:34 PM
 :boozing:  I need the updates too.  :thumb:   :grin:  "Just funnin' with you."  no need to tell me. I know it's incorrect.   :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Huzo on April 25, 2021, 06:38:30 PM
:boozing:  I need the updates too.  :thumb:   :grin:  "Just funnin' with you."  no need to tell me. I know it's incorrect.   :grin: :grin:
I like to be corrected on these things.
I had not noticed until you pointed it out. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Tom on April 25, 2021, 06:40:22 PM
"No harm.  No foul."
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 25, 2021, 06:50:51 PM
Since the Norge went so well the Griso is next. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/CL112rTv/IMG-8557.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDJbgzm9)
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Tom on April 25, 2021, 06:57:12 PM
I like your shop.  You have some nice shop toys.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 27, 2021, 08:04:30 AM
With learning curve intact the Griso only took 2.5 hours start to finish.  It too had minimal grease with the forked arm being bone dry.

(https://i.postimg.cc/c6qMTFdT/IMG_8562.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JHqkzcDB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/xjXwxq0b/IMG_8563.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vDd2DYxQ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CM9WWY1r/IMG_8565.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mhNXHv77)
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: RHAT on April 27, 2021, 09:28:44 AM
I wasn't worried about my Norge one dammed minute until I found this thread.  Now I'm terrified. Thanks Dave         :cry:
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: blackcat on April 27, 2021, 10:08:59 AM
Honestly, there is no excuse for bone dry bearings on a brand new bike.
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 27, 2021, 10:29:15 AM
Honestly, there is no excuse for bone dry bearings on a brand new bike.

Luigi has been stingy with grease for quite some time now!
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: MGrego on April 27, 2021, 10:42:12 AM
I wasn't worried about my Norge one dammed minute until I found this thread.  Now I'm terrified. Thanks Dave         :cry:

Have you read the Rollerization threads ?  :wink:
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: blackcat on April 27, 2021, 10:43:31 AM
Luigi has been stingy with grease for quite some time now!

The question is, why?  If it's the cost and labor of greasing the bearings then charge another $20 or $50 bucks for the bike.

Can you imagine buying ANY new car, major brand motorcycle or even a lawn mower and having to do such maintenance?
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 27, 2021, 11:08:22 AM
The question is, why?  If it's the cost and labor of greasing the bearings then charge another $20 or $50 bucks for the bike.

Can you imagine buying ANY new car, major brand motorcycle or even a lawn mower and having to do such maintenance?

No, but its a Moto Guzzi and I love them enough to forgive the fact that the grease quota per bike is extremely low for some unknown and mysterious reason.    :bow:    I don't think it would cost them more than a few pennies to do it right. 
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Neil on April 27, 2021, 11:13:45 AM
Your bikes are all so clean, no dirt, grease, etc. Does anyone actually ride any of them?
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: jwinwi on April 27, 2021, 11:21:59 AM
Dave,
What is the Harley with the blue tank next to the BMW?
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 27, 2021, 11:25:03 AM
Your bikes are all so clean, no dirt, grease, etc. Does anyone actually ride any of them?

They are all well cared for.  And they are ridden. 
Title: Re: Norge Prep for the WG Rally
Post by: Dave Swanson on April 27, 2021, 11:26:30 AM
Dave,
What is the Harley with the blue tank next to the BMW?

1936 VLH

(https://i.postimg.cc/tJjLbMCr/36VL.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ygLfXnR9)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Qt5RR3s9/IMG-2642.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ZBb7dXW4)