Author Topic: My Guzzi shut down on the road  (Read 1606 times)

Offline Noshacal

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2021, 07:12:52 AM »
My 2000 Jackal did this after I bought it last year. It had been taken in a trade so my friend wasn't aware of this condition. A previous trip to a dealership did not resolve the issue (receipts).
Motorcycle Rejuvenators found a relay under the seat had failed. My guess was this occurs only when the bike is hot as Tony and I had both taken the bike out on short test rides. This was a cheap repair (replacement of relay).

Offline Milosh

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2021, 07:24:11 AM »
Two thoughts.

* Are you SURE the WHOLE bike shut down (i.e. there was no headlight or tail light?) - I mean from the seat you might not be able to tell.

* Wiggle and Tap test - intermittents can sometimes be found by running the bike while wiggling each possible wiring harness and/or gently tapping on the suspect component. Stick a small screwdriver up into contact with the ignition switch and tap lightly on the handle. If the bike cuts out while doing either test, Bob's Your Uncle.

I had a bad ignition switch on the Jackal which cut power to the bike running dead straight down the Blue Ridge Parkway, WHEN I hit a bump. The tap test confirmed it.

Positive the whole bike shut down. No lights. No nothing...because when I pulled over to the side of the road, I couldn't even turn on the hazard lights. There were no lights on the dash. Everything went out.

I did the wiggle test on the ignition and checked the connections Enzo told me to and I think it may be time to bring a professional because when I worked on electronics when I was building scientific instruments, if I had intermittent, I'd replace the whole board. Too many times I wasted time checking test points that worked when it was working.
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Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2021, 07:24:38 AM »
Its too dangerous troubleshooting in traffic, you might get run over.
Right up front the OP said it was like someone turned the key off.
The headlight of a V7 normally stays On with the kill switch pushed and the bike rolling. it stays On for about 5 seconds after stopping and turns back on if the key is On and you move the bike at walking speed, I assume the V9 is the same.
Fuse D,E & F are always Live or should be.
Fuse A, B & C are on the other side of the ignition switch, they will be dead when you turn the key Off or the circuit fails.
The first thing to find out is which group of fuses are loosing power, simple as a small bulb between the fuses and chassis.
Start by wiring the lamp to A,B or C and chassis, wrap one wire around the fuse pin any one off the 6 points available, the other can be clipped to a nice shiny bolt, (not the handlebars, they aren't grounded)
Once you have your light On then start wiggling stuff, the light will flash when you find the sweet spot, then you can try moving the Lamp to one of the fuses D,E or F the lamp there should stay On when you wiggle the sweet spot or its something to do with the battery connections or main ground.
I assume by this time you have cleaned the connections.
Note: Sometimes there is a slight error on the schematic, maybe an extra fuse or two but there will be two distinct groups on either side of the ignition switch.

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« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 08:01:58 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Online Kev m

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2021, 07:31:44 AM »
Positive the whole bike shut down. No lights. No nothing...because when I pulled over to the side of the road, I couldn't even turn on the hazard lights. There were no lights on the dash. Everything went out.

I did the wiggle test on the ignition and checked the connections Enzo told me to and I think it may be time to bring a professional because when I worked on electronics when I was building scientific instruments, if I had intermittent, I'd replace the whole board. Too many times I wasted time checking test points that worked when it was working.

Copy that, I wasn't sure of whole story. Ya know guy pulls over and shuts off key reflexively then "remembers" that everything shut off, but did it etc. You would be surprised how many times an owner gives the tech only a small part of the story.

Anyway, parts swapping is generally frowned upon as troubleshooting on vehicles because of the price of the in theory nonreturnable parts. But dealers and techs do it for sure sometimes.

On the flip side yoo can't just easily swap out the whole harness so there's a reason to troubleshoot.

Good luck
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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2021, 07:31:44 AM »

Offline dlapierre

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2021, 09:51:55 AM »
Its too dangerous troubleshooting in traffic, you might get run over.
Right up front the OP said it was like someone turned the key off.
The headlight of a V7 normally stays On with the kill switch pushed and the bike rolling. it stays On for about 5 seconds after stopping and turns back on if the key is On and you move the bike at walking speed, I assume the V9 is the same.
Fuse D,E & F are always Live or should be.
Fuse A, B & C are on the other side of the ignition switch, they will be dead when you turn the key Off or the circuit fails.
The first thing to find out is which group of fuses are loosing power, simple as a small bulb between the fuses and chassis.
Start by wiring the lamp to A,B or C and chassis, wrap one wire around the fuse pin any one off the 6 points available, the other can be clipped to a nice shiny bolt, (not the handlebars, they aren't grounded)
Once you have your light On then start wiggling stuff, the light will flash when you find the sweet spot, then you can try moving the Lamp to one of the fuses D,E or F the lamp there should stay On when you wiggle the sweet spot or its something to do with the battery connections or main ground.
I assume by this time you have cleaned the connections.
Note: Sometimes there is a slight error on the schematic, maybe an extra fuse or two but there will be two distinct groups on either side of the ignition switch.

Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

What Kiwi Roy says. The same thing happened to me on my  08' California Vintage. I followed his instructions and found that the problem stemmed from a connection occurring under the seat brought on by the underside of the seat simply depressing a connection until it came disconnected while I was riding it. Simple problem. Simple fix once I discovered the cause.

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2021, 11:36:32 AM »
Visually check fuse block for evidence of heating at the connection points. Rotate the fuses in place so the ends dont get fuzzy. This is something I do as a general maintenance item. At this point you should consider removing the ignition switch to inspect it and associated wiring. The contacts in the base may get loose from overheating. As posted already it is a most likely cause. Do you have any non standard accessories in the system that could add load? The battery could also be faulty with an internal intermittent open to one of the posts- rare but does happen. My guess is still the ignition switch. They can be taken apart and rejuvenated.  Mark it before disassembly so you dont have to re clock it for the contacts to be right. The problem would be in the base where the contacts live. There should be three tabs that can be opened to take the base off. There was a page on it here somewhere, maybe a year or so ago so try to find that
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Offline Milosh

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2021, 01:23:39 PM »
Update: I chatted with Enzo for a bit. The result was that he thinks it could have been just the battery terminal screws being just a bit loose that I tightened.

His advice was to ride it locally until I build up trust with her again. If it happens again, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Which means to me, I'll either ship it back to Cincy to have him look at it, or trailer it to Richmond or Charlotte (preferences? please lemme know either by reply or PM).
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2021, 04:39:39 PM »
Copy that, I wasn't sure of whole story. Ya know guy pulls over and shuts off key reflexively then "remembers" that everything shut off, but did it etc. You would be surprised how many times an owner gives the tech only a small part of the story.

Anyway, parts swapping is generally frowned upon as troubleshooting on vehicles because of the price of the in theory nonreturnable parts. But dealers and techs do it for sure sometimes.

On the flip side yoo can't just easily swap out the whole harness so there's a reason to troubleshoot.

Good luck

Yes like 99% of the time. On the V11 forum a guy with a running issue that had us all working on it and after 5 pages of troubleshooting proudly informed us he'd found the problem was with the PC3 connection. Problem was he'd not mentioned one was fitted up to that point. Unbelievable timewaster. 

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2021, 05:21:27 PM »
Update: I chatted with Enzo for a bit. The result was that he thinks it could have been just the battery terminal screws being just a bit loose that I tightened.

His advice was to ride it locally until I build up trust with her again. If it happens again, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. Which means to me, I'll either ship it back to Cincy to have him look at it, or trailer it to Richmond or Charlotte (preferences? please lemme know either by reply or PM).
Ill ask you again...
If your bike is running at 3,000 rpm on the centrestand at home and you remove one terminal, will the engine cut out, or continue on the alternator ?
Because if you prove it will run on the alternator, then its not your battery or terminals.

Online John A

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2021, 05:26:52 PM »
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=94262.0
Found the ignition switch thread. It was three years ago
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 05:30:04 PM by John A »
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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #40 on: April 01, 2021, 05:34:21 PM »
Ill ask you again...
If your bike is running at 3,000 rpm on the centrestand at home and you remove one terminal, will the engine cut out, or continue on the alternator ?
Because if you prove it will run on the alternator, then its not your battery or terminals.



Negative is best for this test.  That rhymes
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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #41 on: April 01, 2021, 05:55:53 PM »


Negative is best for this test.  That rhymes
Sounds like Cat In the Hat...

Offline Milosh

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2021, 06:50:07 PM »
Ill ask you again...
If your bike is running at 3,000 rpm on the centrestand at home and you remove one terminal, will the engine cut out, or continue on the alternator ?
Because if you prove it will run on the alternator, then its not your battery or terminals.

I'm sorry I missed your question. I'll check that tomorrow.

In the meantime I found the problem! I figured I'd jiggle the key in the ignition switch and REPRODUCED THE PROBLEM! I even had my wife look.

It doesn't happen every time I did it, but it did it at least twice.

So as you all thought, it's the ignition switch. I'll order one up tomorrow.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 06:59:46 PM by Milosh »
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Offline Milosh

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2021, 06:51:12 PM »
Yes like 99% of the time. On the V11 forum a guy with a running issue that had us all working on it and after 5 pages of troubleshooting proudly informed us he'd found the problem was with the PC3 connection. Problem was he'd not mentioned one was fitted up to that point. Unbelievable timewaster. 

Ciao

No PC3. My job for 25+ years has been in science and engineering. I'm paid to convey the details. ;)
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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2021, 07:20:46 PM »
No PC3. My job for 25+ years has been in science and engineering. I'm paid to convey the details. ;)

Don't take it personally, we don't know that going in and we've been trained not to assume.  :thumb:
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 06:09:10 AM by Kev m »
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Offline Bulldog9

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2021, 07:28:02 PM »
I would pull each fuse, coat with some Vaseline and re-seat. I was having this problem not for the main fuse, but on some of the accessories. Pulled and reseated the fuses and never a problem again. I'd also do the same with the relays, but you will likely have to pull the tank.

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Offline lucky phil

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2021, 07:53:20 PM »
No PC3. My job for 25+ years has been in science and engineering. I'm paid to convey the details. ;)

Cool It was just a general observation of past frustrations :laugh:

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Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2021, 09:49:50 PM »
Another possibility is the stand switch, the one on my 2 year old V7 is starting to play up, that will kill the motor or prevent it cranking in gear.
I don't think its the cause in this case but you never know.
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Offline Tom H

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2021, 11:11:32 PM »
From your post, sounds like you and your wife found the key switch to have an issue. Go figure. Something that can last 50+ years in and old car, craps out early on a bike??

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #49 on: April 02, 2021, 12:58:22 AM »
I'm sorry I missed your question. I'll check that tomorrow.

In the meantime I found the problem! I figured I'd jiggle the key in the ignition switch and REPRODUCED THE PROBLEM! I even had my wife look.

It doesn't happen every time I did it, but it did it at least twice.

So as you all thought, it's the ignition switch. I'll order one up tomorrow.
Well my question may very well be redundant mate and I hope so.
Hearty congratulations to you for your perseverance, best of good fortune to you.

Offline Milosh

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2021, 05:50:25 PM »
Updated above in the OP. Ignition switch.
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Offline Milosh

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2021, 06:07:19 AM »
Updated further. Still waiting on the ignition harness. I'm thinking of selling her because it's been like two months now and counting without a motorcycle and life is too short to ride unreliable motorcycles. And can be made shorter still by riding one.

Why would motorcycle manufacturers take a vehicle that's a bit riskier to drive than a car and add the factor of unreliability? It's not like you see brand new Ford F150s or Nissan Sentras stalling or losing power in the middle of the highway. Or having their brakes lock up. Or having their lights fail.
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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2021, 06:21:54 AM »

Update: I trailered it to the dealership and they did a short test on the wiring harness. It was the ignition switch. The service advisor told me that the part is probably in Italy, which means I'm without motorcycle for the time being.



Bummer. Are you going to call around to see if you can locate one somewhere in the US? I would think the same switch fits several different models, if not all the late model bikes. You might think there is one sitting somewhere.

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Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: My Guzzi shut down on the road
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2021, 06:53:32 AM »
A few weeks back I did a tutorial on the switch, I just pulled mine apart to see how difficult it would be. Note: you only replace the contact block, the lock part stays in place in fact it would be very difficult to take off.
I think it's more likely to be just a broken wire, the factory doesn't fasten the wires at the back of the switch so with flexing the wires snap at the solder joint.
There is nothing magic about the switch, any old switch could replace it at a pinch e.g. a domestic light switch hidden under the seat and connected across the two groups of fuses.
Here is the ignition switch showing how to get it off and apart.
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=110098.msg1747391#msg1747391
And the schematic showing how the switch (14) just connects two groups of fuses together (22).
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2017_V9_Bobber.gif
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2013_V7_Series.gif
So a short length of wire jammed between the two groups of fuses will get you home, the fuses are protected by the seat lock.
The kill switch will shut the bike down but I'm not sure if there is any drain on the battery when its off, best to open the jumper between fuses for a long stop.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 07:23:20 AM by Kiwi_Roy »
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