Author Topic: Optional way to transport a motorcycle  (Read 5474 times)

Offline Scout63

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2022, 08:54:23 PM »
It’s a great idea well executed.  I just couldn’t use it myself.  It feels like putting the dog on the roof. I’ve been using a 5x8 flat trailer for years, and even the thought of a bike tipping off of that scares me.  I finally gave in and bought a 6x12 enclosed trailer. Trailers are a pain to maintain and store though. That’s a really great looking G5 Kidsmoke.
Ben Zehnder - Orleans, MA USA

Offline rschrum

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2022, 09:15:35 PM »
If you have a mechanical speedometer, it will take some miles off.
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2022, 02:53:43 AM »
"New way" thats funny. My father made the identical thing in 1973 for our family car as a rescue device when he commuted to work on a Honda 90 step through. It however mounted the bikes front wheel in the holder which was mounted on the cars tow bar. We use it on one occasion.

Ciao
 
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2022, 07:29:57 AM »
It’s a great idea well executed.  I just couldn’t use it myself.  It feels like putting the dog on the roof. I’ve been using a 5x8 flat trailer for years, and even the thought of a bike tipping off of that scares me.  I finally gave in and bought a 6x12 enclosed trailer. Trailers are a pain to maintain and store though. That’s a really great looking G5 Kidsmoke.

Not when you convert that 6x12 into a camper and park it next to the garage.   :grin:
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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2022, 07:29:57 AM »

Offline kidsmoke

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2022, 08:49:10 AM »
"New way" thats funny. My father made the identical thing in 1973 for our family car as a rescue device when he commuted to work on a Honda 90 step through. It however mounted the bikes front wheel in the holder which was mounted on the cars tow bar. We use it on one occasion.

Ciao
 

Ummm. Yeah. That’s the point. new way - rear tire. Only one I’ve heard of.  Sounds like you’re corroborating that.
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Offline tommy2cyl

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2022, 09:46:03 AM »
I know I could never be totally comfortable with it, YMMV.   If space is a premium I would opt for a Stinger or Kendon foldable trailer.  I like the concept of the MOTOW,  just not for me for a long haul, maybe across town.  I used a hitch carrier, the design that you pull a pin and drop the rail to load, and then lift the bike into position.  Looked easy on the video, not so much in real life for my DR 350. One person could not lift it because of the location of the pivot point.  Probably work OK on a 125 cc bike.  I didn't like the bouncing motion of the bike on the hitch hauler, no matter how well I tied it down, if you hit a series of whoops at speed it did contact the back of the van with the handlebars.   This was a heavy duty, welded steel design.   I know other people highly praise hitch haulers as well.  Just wasn't for me.  Do what works for you.

Offline mainsail

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2022, 02:14:22 PM »
This is how I got my Honda home...






Offline MattP

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #37 on: April 30, 2022, 03:49:44 PM »
really nice as I said do you bolt or pin it up when it is raised? looks like it if so unload the screw not made to take inpacks. Yeh I would not go over 10,000 miles towing with it at one time with out stopping to piss.       And a other thing those handelbars and or grips were dizined by motorcycle seintests to go only in one diriction, might be looking for trubble there also just some thing to consider. Oh should for shure remove the handle grip streamers be bore a tow. Just trying  to be helpfull yeh spell chek might help.Matt

Offline Huzo

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2022, 04:19:27 PM »
I’m not being critical just to be inflammatory, but.
I hate it.
The grip on the rear wheel is providing high twisting loads through both it (the wheel) and the swingarm during cornering and road irregularities.
When one wheel of the truck drops into a dip and the other does not, that left/right rocking that you feel, is fed through to the bike and unsympathetic loads are applied.
You can see in the shot that the bike is not properly vertical. The more it moves away from this point, the more it will tend to continue to do so. Lateral instability=bad thing.
When you encounter a bump in the road during normal riding moving forwards, the shock is dissipated (mostly) in the compressing of the fork springs due to the force vector’s horizontal and vertical components.
Travelling in reverse, the tendency is to EXTEND the forks which INCREASES the bending moment on them…
Not good at all.

Don’t even entertain the consequences if you get Liberace’d at a stop light….Goodbye bike…Period.
The bike will not be able to move forward with the momentum of the colliding vehicle, it will collapse like a coke can.

I don’t know if spinning the speedometer drive machanism in reverse is an issue or not.

Oh and don’t ever..ever..ever..e tc..forget that it’s there and reverse the truck, especially with steering input..
It WILL WRECK EVERYTHING…!

I think the whole idea has more bugs than a boarding house bed.
I wouldn’t do it…..
« Last Edit: April 30, 2022, 07:32:02 PM by Huzo »

Offline n3303j

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2022, 05:24:02 PM »
Being a true Moto Guzzi addict I am cheap and bought my 3 bike (or 1 Ural) trailer (in excellent used condition) for less than that device retails at. Amazing how many friends you get when you own a trailer that fits most anything from bikes to quads (and riding mowers too).

But in the "Good old days" (early '70s) I did make a rig that hooked onto a car rear bumper (when bumpers were real and purposeful). This device allowed clamping a BMW R69S front axle to the rear bumper (front wheel removed). We loaded the transmission full of oil so there was lubrication available no matter what was spinning and my friend towed from Massachusetts to California without incident.
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Offline lucky phil

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2022, 05:30:55 PM »
Ummm. Yeah. That’s the point. new way - rear tire. Only one I’ve heard of.  Sounds like you’re corroborating that.

So you're saying the "new way" is mounting it via the rear wheel not the front? I haven't seen this method used since my father made his contraption in the 70's when I was a kid and people thought he was either brilliant or mad and I've been immersed in motorcycles and the motorcycle world since then. Have people been using this system commonly since then? I personally don't like the system myself but my father only created his for emergencies in the urban areas not for extended towing.

Ciao   
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Offline Huzo

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2022, 05:45:49 PM »
My Dad was a bit of a madman too.
He built an auto gyro in 1969 and flew the bastard. No one knew if he was mad or brilliant…(probably a bit of both.. :wink:)

Offline xackley

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2022, 05:50:14 PM »
Back in the 70s I haul my kawasaki 350 400 mile to Norwich CT.
I put the front wheel in the trunk of a little toyota carolla, tied it down, and made it without incident or harm to the bike.
I can't remember if I removed the chain for the trip.

Don
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Offline Huzo

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2022, 06:25:06 PM »
made it without incident or harm to the bike.


Don
Yep I worked with a bloke for 5 years as a postie, even let him ride my Norge.
He just got locked up for life on a murder cold case after 27 years on the run.
See..?
You can get away with murder…For a while.
True story..Google it.
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Actually he was a nice bloke..(mostly)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2022, 06:26:24 PM by Huzo »

Offline kidsmoke

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2022, 07:16:13 PM »
I’m not being critical just to be inflammatory, but.
I hate it.
The grip on the rear wheel is providing high twisting loads through both it (the wheel) and the swingarm during cornering and road irregularities.
When one wheel of the truck drops into a dip and the other does not, that left/right rocking that you feel, is fed through to the bike and unsympathetic loads are applied.
You can see in the shot that the bike is not properly vertical. The more it moves away from this point, the more it will tend to continue to do so. Lateral instability=bad thing.
Two tie downs from up near the grab rail, to out near the ends of the truck’s rear fender would be highly advantageous…(actually imperative).

When you encounter a bump in the road during normal riding moving forwards, the shock is dissipated (mostly) in the compressing of the fork springs due to the force vector’s horizontal and vertical components.
Travelling in reverse, the tendency is to EXTEND the forks which INCREASES the bending moment on them…
Not good at all.

Don’t even entertain the consequences if you get Liberace’d at a stop light….Goodbye bike…Period.
The bike will not be able to move forward with the momentum of the colliding vehicle, it will collapse like a coke can.

I don’t know if spinning the speedometer drive machanism in reverse is an issue or not.

Oh and don’t ever..ever..ever..e tc..forget that it’s there and reverse the truck, especially with steering input..
It WILL WRECK EVERYTHING…!

I think the whole idea has more bugs than a boarding house bed.
I wouldn’t do it…..

If that were true, would t you think at least one customer would’ve had a problem? Just one?  And in 40 years of driving I’ve never forgotten I was towing. Backing up with it is super easy.


There are hundreds of these out there and there has not been a single failure. Not one. With all these risks that seems crazy to me.

I still can’t find a commercially offered rear wheel tow device. @perazzimx14 did you say you saw one?
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Offline Huzo

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #45 on: April 30, 2022, 07:23:30 PM »
If that were true, would t you think at least one customer would’ve had a problem? Just one?  And in 40 years of driving I’ve never forgotten I was towing. Backing up with it is super easy.


There are hundreds of these out there and there has not been a single failure. Not one. With all these risks that seems crazy to me.

I still can’t find a commercially offered rear wheel tow device. @perazzimx14 did you say you saw one?
You wouldn’t know unless they told you about it.

I drive a 26 metre B Double truck all week and I haven’t forgotten either. Does that mean I’m closer to the day that I do ?
I must be clueless.

Just get one, they are nicely electroplated.
A chrome one would be even better… :thumb:
« Last Edit: April 30, 2022, 07:28:57 PM by Huzo »

Offline kidsmoke

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2022, 07:36:10 PM »
Google "motorcycle tow bar" and lots of stuff comes up. This is not a new concept. The version on the big auction site is $90 and is rated at 800#

Here's a front wheel version:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiEkaPa2Lz3AhUJZd8KHWNPDgcQwqsBegQIAxAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0io8g_VjGNo&usg=AOvVaw0KcnmY_9BKQA5hRHzq4mga

Unless it was my only option in an emergency situation would I choose to use one of these getup's I would thing a remote TMPS with a readout in the tow vehicle would be minimum safety equipment. I could see getting a flat and never knowing it until the tire was all balled up around the forks or swing arm and the wheel being grinding away on the road.

Yeah. Mentioned that above. That flat tire issue is the one thing that worries me. That TMPS idea is a great one. Wonder if that sort of app could be added to Bluetooth radios or even cel phones.
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Offline kidsmoke

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2022, 07:42:48 PM »
You wouldn’t know unless they told you about it.

I drive a 26 metre B Double truck all week and I haven’t forgotten either. Does that mean I’m closer to the day that I do ?
I must be clueless.

Just get one, they are nicely electroplated.
A chrome one would be even better… :thumb:

Huzo. I own the one shown. That’s my Guzzi. And also mentioned in the thread, the owner of the company is a friend. Since it’s inception there have been zero - ZERO - customer complaints, returns, or report of failure. Her question to me was “what’s wrong with it? What is the concern of an experience biker when they look at it?”

I told her I thought I could find out, beyond my own observations.

I do appreciate the critique. It’s all valid.
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Offline Huzo

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2022, 08:33:41 PM »
Huzo. I own the one shown. That’s my Guzzi. And also mentioned in the thread, the owner of the company is a friend. Since it’s inception there have been zero - ZERO - customer complaints, returns, or report of failure. Her question to me was “what’s wrong with it? What is the concern of an experience biker when they look at it?”

I told her I thought I could find out, beyond my own observations.

I do appreciate the critique. It’s all valid.
Ok then mate.
It’s a beautiful bike,  I wouldn’t have it there like that, but it doesn’t make you wrong.

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2022, 09:37:14 PM »
As one who doesn't have the room for a truck or trailer it looks quite interesting, it still puts a significant load on the drawbar (around half the bike's weight) but it should tow easy I think.
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Offline n3303j

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2022, 07:24:03 AM »
As one who doesn't have the room for a truck or trailer it looks quite interesting, it still puts a significant load on the drawbar (around half the bike's weight) but it should tow easy I think.
Unit requires vehicle with a 2 inch receiver. Most 2 inch receivers are rated well above 300 pounds tongue weight.
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Offline OldMojo

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2022, 10:52:59 AM »
What I haven't heard addressed is whether or not there is any issue with rolling a motorcycle tire backwards, since most are directional.
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Offline n3303j

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2022, 11:03:13 AM »
Don't see any reason you couldn't load the bike into that rig front wheel first.
Manufacturing could eliminate the built in pivot as bike steering would pivot.
Loader eliminates disabling steering with ratchet straps.
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Offline kidsmoke

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2022, 06:25:54 PM »
This concept is not new or earthshattering, It's been around for a looooong time. If it was so great I wonder why every motorcyclist with a 2" receiver doesn't have one in their garage. I mean they are $90 on eBay so its not a cost thing. Maybe the trailer cartels have done a good job at silencing the competition or maybe its just a bad idea?

geez. dude. ok, can you share it with me? I can't find one. Anywhere. Front wheel? 60 years (at least) of history and counting. tired idea. yawn. Rear wheel? 0.
Rear tire only motorcycle hitch, for sale, commercially. If it's not new, show me one, and I'll edit the thread title and accept my admonishment.

And I don't think anyone has said its BETTER than carrying it on a trailer. Clearly it is not. It's an option. There are many people who have a motorcycle, occasionally need to transport it, and CANNOT have a trailer or would rather not have a trailer. Here's an option for them. By offering an alternative, no one is threatening your trailer or suggesting it's inferior. I own a bike trailer. I'd prefer it from a peace of mind standpoint because of it's proven success and lack of risk to the bike. But it greatly increases the cost of towing and is far less convenient.

Engineering and math matter. And this unit has 100% success in achieving its purpose safely to this point over of thousands of miles and many bikes. In my mind that makes it worth my consideration. You don't have to like it, but you can't dispute its effectiveness in use.  Or then again, i suppose you can!
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Offline Huzo

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2022, 09:01:28 PM »
What I haven't heard addressed is whether or not there is any issue with rolling a motorcycle tire backwards, since most are directional.
No mate.
They are marked in preferred direction of rotation, to cope with the torque demands.
Rear tyre will experience torque in both directions, but the front will only experience braking forces..(obviously).
In the case of the trailering example, there will be no torque applied, because there is no impediment to rotation.

Offline TN Mark

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2022, 10:55:16 PM »
Interesting thread. I would never consider using the MoTow for my Victory Cross Country Tour though. I also prefer not to own a suitable trailer, open or enclosed. Certainly not for the infrequent times I may want to use it. Plus I have friends with trucks and trailers if I need one locally.

I could be interested in something like this Motolug system though. In fact I'd like to see the maker of the MoTow design something similar to it. Because I likely wouldn't want to buy one from the UK. The MotoLug concept is what I had in my head as I was watching the MoTow videos.

For me and my big Victory, the MoTow simply isn't, and shouldn't be, an option. But please pass along the MotoLug video and see if MoTow would or could design something similar.

https://www.motolug.com/index.php?route=common/home

This version, made in SC is only about $300 more than the MoTow and could also be an option.

vhttps://theusatrailerstore.com/ace-single-motorcycle-trailer/

« Last Edit: May 01, 2022, 10:59:24 PM by TN Mark »

Offline Chatmanx

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2022, 08:48:28 AM »
When I drove a few hundred miles to pick up my bike, I used the UHaul trailer with ramp and nose for front wheel. The rental for 24 hours was $15.

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #57 on: May 02, 2022, 10:20:46 AM »
I don't have have room, money, or means of owning a trailer.
My go to is the U-Haul motorcycle trailer. But it too has disadvantages.
Number one being no one-way rental. If I could have something like this that
I keep in my truck, I could see that being useful. Just another tool for tackling a job.
There does seem to be a lot of theory against it but right now the
real world usage by a fellow Guzzi rider can't be ignored. I'd still prefer
the U-Haul but I'd have to give this serious consideration.

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Offline moto

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #58 on: May 02, 2022, 11:32:40 AM »
My father made a simple towing device to get me and my girlfriend back over the snowed-in Rockies in Fall, 1974. It hitched the fork tubes to the trailer hitch via the front wheel axle. Ever since, I've thought of making my own hitch that would correct the biggest flaw of his design and of all hitches that allow the motorcycle to pivot on the front fork.

That flaw is this. When the towing vehicle backs up and executes any kind of turn, no matter how slight, the motorcycle pivots on its steering stem. Since the stem is angled back from vertical by 20 degrees or more, the only way the bike can perform the pivot requires the steering stem to depart even further from the vertical. (Otherwise the rear wheel would have to be up in the air! Think about it.) This dipping quickly progresses to the point that the bike will lie down on the ground to be run over by the tow vehicle if one is not careful. 

For many years I tried to sketch out designs that would introduce a vertical pivot axis, separate from the steering stem, while supporting the front of the motorcycle, with or without the wheel removed. It always got complicated, and I never built one.

MoTow's design solves the vertical axis problem and also reverses the motorcycle to put the front wheel on the ground. Reversing the motorcycle simplifies attaching it rigidly to the provided vertical axis since the rear wheel forms a rigid (more or less) extension of the frame. Holding the front fork in a neutral position then becomes as simple as adding some tie-downs, which is an adequate solution because only the minor deviating forces introduced from the front wheel itself have to be controlled, rather than the much larger forces needed to stabilize the whole motorcycle in a non-reversed design. This is brilliant, and well deserving a patent (which I think has been obtained or applied for). The end result is a towed motorcycle that does not try to disappear beneath your rear bumper when backing up, and which should back just like any small trailer, as reported.

The reversed attachment of the motorcycle also saves worrying about transmission damage, or removing a messy chain. Though a Guzzi can be towed thousands of miles (as I have found) with the rear wheel on the ground and the drive shaft spinning away, many would hesitate to do this. So the reversed mounting is also a big selling point in this respect.

Other obvious advantages have been discussed, including the ability to carry the device in one's trunk or store it easily in a small space in the garage, and the ease with which a single person can mount the motorcycle on the hitch (especially with a drill or the optional motor). The savings on gas mileage will be very large, based on my own later experiences with my Dad's device -- there was almost no mileage penalty at all.

As for theoretical drawbacks, the idea that the forks are built only to handle forces from the front is wrong, based on my examination of forks. Though engineers could have built them in the proposed way, making them more liable to failure from forces applied from the rear, they did not. An examination of the construction of triple trees and forks shows a symmetry that means they are as strong from the rear as from the front, at least on every street motorcycle and racing motorcycle I have ever seen or seen described. Furthermore, the fore-and-aft forces that need to be dealt with are extremely small compared with full application of the bike's brakes: the front brakes will not be used at all. This is not a valid concern.

The rotational torque introduced through the rear wheel and the trailer hitch is an appropriate concern. I discussed this with an extremely experienced and skilled professional welder, who declared emphatically that that the 2-inch hitch will have no problem at all, based on his and everyone's experience of towing heavy construction equipment with these things. This leaves the question of the ability of the motorcycle's rear axle, rear wheel, swing arm, and swing arm pivot to handle these torques. Here the lack of product complaints or returns will have to be sufficient. It is possible a torque from some pot hole hit by the towing vehicle could tweak one or more of those parts, but I doubt this would happen. Certainly the limitation to sub-600lb. bikes helps here, since they provide less resistance to these torques.

The list to starboard that we observe in Kidsmoke's video is a bit worrisome. Maybe he could comment on how hard it would be to correct this the next time. I think that MoTow may have dropped an initial 1 1/4" hitch model due to concerns about this sort of thing. I also noted that they began including a hitch-stabilizer clamp with every MoTow about year or so ago. Whether or not listing or rotation around the listing axis is really a  potential cause of structural damage to the bike, it is enough to worry the owner. The company reacted suitably to counter this worry.

This device is not meant to tow large touring bikes, of course. You are supposed to ride those on tours! But it is suitable to tow Guzzi big blocks (all of which weigh five-fiddy, per Chuck in Indiana) clean across the continent to where the plains fall away and the mountains rise in purple majesty. I plan to do that this summer.

Sorry if I left out reactions to the reader's own suggested worry.

I've said all I have to say. Thanks.

Moto

« Last Edit: May 02, 2022, 12:51:24 PM by moto »
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Offline MattP

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Re: new way to transport a motorcycle
« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2022, 11:48:27 AM »
I want a lighter duty one then I could tow my montesa cota with my mighty powerful metro. ohhh no those trials tires arnt ment to go 70 I better go change my panties, no no false alarm.

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