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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dxhall on October 17, 2021, 06:31:37 PM
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I’ve decided to do something about my always-dull knives. There are too many sharpeners out there, though. Anyone have a preference? This one gets good reviews:
https://www.bladehq.com/item--Spyderco-Sharpmaker--1859
ebay has hundreds of used sharpening stones at very reasonable prices. I’m tempted to give an ebay stone a try, but the modern systems seem more likely to produce a good result.
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We took ours to the local knife sharpener guy. I think he charged us $1 each and it was well worth it.
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It's like an oil thread.
The important thing is to understand the geometry of the edge you need and the specific aspects of the method used. The grade or grit of the abrasive removes the bulk of the metal. The last pass will leave a burr (think a thin sheet of foil) that will fold over the cutting edge to impair the sharp edge. Stropping or steeling can remove this burr. If not removed, the edge will never be efficient. Steeling can also retrain or straighten a deflected or deformed fine edge to extend useful sharpness between abrasive sharpening. Do whatever needed to produce the results you need.
As a professional chef and professional carver/sculptor who sharpens all of my own tools knives & tools endlessly for decades, I've never found use for bevel guides. I don't like ceramics in general, including those stick-type kits like that spyderco item. They load up & diminish in efficiency imho and aren't easy to clean. They also easily break if dropped. I don't like power sharpeners because they waste away your knives and the generated heat can be a problem. Natural stones are ok, but are not my preference. I like synthetic stones and diamond stones, although I rarely use diamond steels (too aggressive, not an actual steeling action). Properly stropping or steeling your knives makes a big difference and is mandatory to finish a properly shaped ok edge into an excellent edge.
The DMT bench-type sharpening "stones" are very user friendly, stay flat, are easy to clean with water and probably the most durable equipment out there. Otherwise, a Norton Tri Stone with WD40 is the old standard. A regular professional kitchen steel or a Schrade sharpsteel (if still available, I really like mine) are also top on my list.
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Well, that was probably close to a definitive response!
I use a worksharp grinder (it's a belt-sander)- I'm not in the same league as Clifrod with regards to sharpening needs, so I do my knives once every couple weeks to a month. Yes, if you use a course sanding belt leave the blade in one place on the belt, it will certainly heat up- I just don't do that. Works fine for me.
I use a steel and a diamond stone in between. Then when they get dull enough to be annoying, I use the belt sander.
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(https://i.ibb.co/q0ptnRg/Screenshot-23.png) (https://ibb.co/q0ptnRg)
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Japanese water stones. I prefer diamond splash and go stones.
-AJ
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One of these, you mean?
https://www.amazon.com/Norton-IM200-Three-Sharpening-System/dp/B000XK4MYW/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2VWKRQ5S3Y9VI&dchild=1&keywords=norton+tri+stone&qid=1634519003&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&smid=A2HCHIE6U0W1ZN&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExUTkzUDhVN1UwWlNKJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDAwMDYxM0lGN0E3SURMTUY1UCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODA3MjcxM1JMV0JIUzZENzU0SCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
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One of these, you mean?
https://www.amazon.com/Norton-IM200-Three-Sharpening-System/dp/B000XK4MYW/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2VWKRQ5S3Y9VI&dchild=1&keywords=norton+tri+stone&qid=1634519003&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&smid=A2HCHIE6U0W1ZN&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExUTkzUDhVN1UwWlNKJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDAwMDYxM0lGN0E3SURMTUY1UCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODA3MjcxM1JMV0JIUzZENzU0SCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
It's OK..I guess it depends on what kind of knives you have.
Medium to low quality that will be fine. Don't get a pull through sharpener.
Those work by pealing off a thin bit of steel.
-AJ
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We have a set of Berghoff knives. As recommended by them and also Consumer Reports use the sharpening rod for a few strokes before every use. Works.
GliderJohn
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Would the more expensive Norton produce better results for an amateur?
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Japanese water stones. I prefer diamond splash and go stones.
-AJ
I have an EdgePro to get the proper angles on the edge and get it sharp. I use a ceramic rod to maintain the edge. I get the EdgePro back out when the blade needs reconditioning. The EdgePro uses Japanese water stones. My preferred method.
kk
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Japanese water stones. I prefer diamond splash and go stones.
-AJ
Yes, just like an oil thread, but I use waterstones. Global sell a big range, although it take a bit of searching to find all the ones you need/want.
Do note that knives made of decent steels generally keep their edge longer.
A chopping board of a plank or a slab tend not to ruin an edge, as most of the stuff that's available for sale. I like the round cross section of a tree sold at the Chinese grocer.
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We’ve had one of these for many years. It’s easy to use and keeps a great edge. I also use a steel before each use.
https://chefschoice.com/products/chefschoice-diamond-hone-sharpener-sharp-n-hone-model-325
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Yes, just like an oil thread, but I use waterstones. Global sell a big range, although it take a bit of searching to find all the ones you need/want.
Do note that knives made of decent steels generally keep their edge longer.
A chopping board of a plank or a slab tend not to ruin an edge, as most of the stuff that's available for sale. I like the round cross section of a tree sold at the Chinese grocer.
I don't know sharpening but for sure an end grain is much kinder to an edge than cross grain, a good example would be hollow punches, work much better on end grain.
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Hard to say what's the best... I use Japanese waterstones in a wide array of grits, including some naturally mined ones and of course many of the synthetic pressed/manufactured ones all the way up past 10-12-14k grits. Plus a few diamond plates, bench sander, bench grinder, compressed felt blocks, strops, and some ceramic rods. (Quick tip- if your ceramic rods pack up with swarf, they clean up pretty nice with a MISTER CLEAN MAGIC ERASER!). I even have an edge pro somewhere but I havent used it in many years. I sharpen anything I can get my hands on from crappy flea-market pocket knives to $2k hand-forged Gyuto & Yanagiba, to lawnmower blades & all the hand tools at the Asheville Tool Library.
Like asking 'whats the best bike', you can get into a dizzying array of answers and wander down many paths. I've spent a lot, and researched a lot, and practiced even more.... I have some stones I use only on certain knives (or one certain knife lol) and some stones/plates I only use on other stones!
I think if you are a dedicated home cook who wants to sharpen your own kitchen & pocket knives, and you primarily use 'western' knives with 50/50 bevels.... the Spiderco rig you have selected is a GREAT CHOICE. My dad uses one and his knives are always super-sharp and ready for action. If you just want sharp knives and want to do them yourself, this is surely one of the best ways to go.
If you want to nerd out on the minutiae of sharpening and different approaches for all different styles of knives with different grinds and different steels... well then water stones are for you.
Main things to learn are the various grind styles and bevel angle configurations, and what the terms 'burr' or 'wire edge' mean, and what the differences between 'sharpening' 'grinding' and 'honing' are.
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Would the more expensive Norton produce better results for an amateur?
No, that is the most common style found in pro kitchens and culinary schools, but it takes more practice and finesse than the Spiderco rig you posted. If you want a new hobby get the norton tri-stone or start collecting waterstones... If you just want sharp knives, get the spiderco rig
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I've tried many, including stones. The best of all is Chef's Choice. Everyone I know who has used one agrees. Final answer.
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I have several, including stones and a high-end electric Wusthoff...(I have the earlier version than this one...)
(https://i.ibb.co/PCtLqsL/Screen-Shot-2021-10-18-at-8-02-00-AM.png) (https://ibb.co/PCtLqsL)
..but this little adjustable desk top model from SMITHS works well in a pinch. :thumb: :wink:
(https://i.ibb.co/nbspmSK/IMG-3094.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nbspmSK)
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I've tried many, including stones. The best of all is Chef's Choice. Everyone I know who has used one agrees. Final answer.
If you want electric, this is the best choice. It's the Cooks Illustrated pick (the 'Consumer Reports' of the home kitchen). My grandad had one of these and used it for years on all his boning and filet knives at the fish camp. It gives a sharp, slightly 'toothy' edge. paired with a med-fine honing steel, it will keep you in business for a while. Not too rough on your knives either/doesnt remove a ton of material if used judiciously.
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A consistent downside of any electric sharpener like the Chef's Choice or even the fixed carbide draw sharpener pictured above (I keep one to quickly correct badly shaped edges) is that limited clearance near the base of the blade leads to the development of a choll at the heel of the cutting edge that keeps the blade from making full contact with a cutting board. For many boning or filet knives that don't work against a board, thats no big deal. For other knives, this will require periodic grinding to remove this feature and maintain the proper blade/edge shape.
Like I said, It's a giant oil thread. The steel of the blade needs to be quality or the whole effort is a waste of time & money. For super fine and fastidious work, water stone honing into the mid teens of grit may be worth the effort. If you've got knives that each cost hundreds$$ (or more) and they pay all your bills doing specialized work, that's much different than trying to keep inexpensive knives sharp for casual use. You can sharpen them to infinity. but if you can't effectively sharpen them to a good basic edge with a basic manual method, the perfect edge is not going to happen with a fancy gadget. super honed blades have specific application, just like those sharpened to a lesser state. Razor blade vs axe vs splitting maul...
Know what you need and learn how to achieve & maintain it.
Edit- yes, I could easily sharpen my axe to a razor edge & shave with it by the time I was old enough to shave & still can. Both of my grandfathers expected me to be able to do that by the time I reached that age. So I did.
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Blade material is the starting point. Then the type of sharpening stone. Some knives with fancy names and big price tags are made of junk steel or stainless steel. They will sharpen, but will not hold an edge. Some will sharpen and cut cardboard, but not thin plastic film wrap. I have a Kershaw with a Blade Material Sandvik 14C28N that will sharpen like a razor blade. Another Kershaw Dune model Neck knife Blade Material 3Cr13 that will not take an edge that will cut cardboard, but will cut plastic and spread peanut butter.
Knives are a tool. Using the correct knife for the job is important. I carry the Kershaw Speedsafe/Leek Assist Flipper Ken Onion Design Aluminum as my every "cutting" tool. I use it to cut with, not pry, not a screw driver, not punch, not a chisel. I use stones to sharpen knives by hand.
I told My Wife to bury me with my knife, some change and my keys in my pocket.
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Blade material is the starting point. Then the type of sharpening stone. Some knives with fancy names and big price tags are made of junk steel or stainless steel. They will sharpen, but will not hold an edge. Some will sharpen and cut cardboard, but not thin plastic film wrap. I have a Kershaw with a Blade Material Sandvik 14C28N that will sharpen like a razor blade. Another Kershaw Dune model Neck knife Blade Material 3Cr13 that will not take an edge that will cut cardboard, but will cut plastic and spread peanut butter.
Knives are a tool. Using the correct knife for the job is important. I carry the Kershaw Speedsafe/Leek Assist Flipper Ken Onion Design Aluminum as my every "cutting" tool. I use it to cut with, not pry, not a screw driver, not punch, not a chisel. I use stones to sharpen knives by hand.
I told My Wife to bury me with my knife, some change and my keys in my pocket.
I have several KERSHAW folders, and they make a good knife....They also offer this cost effective sharpener...
https://www.jbtools.com/kershaw-2535-ultra-tek-blade-sharpener/?wi=off&wi=off&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtrSLBhCLARIsACh6RmghI02p84qJ7LVV4Ed4cA9HU1Okk--y0F08I5tabEiExRNgBDBsC4UaAoLmEALw_wcB
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If you know the theory but lack the skill/experience to do it by hand like me, get a Tormek https://www.tormek.com/usa/en/
I don't think that there is a sharp tool that you can't get a jig for
I have the small one that I found on Ebay and it does everything I need. Just need to get a scissor jig :thumb:
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Depends on the knife and what you want to do with it.
For kitchen knives, sandpaper and and flat piece of glass (or granite) makes a quick and dirty but very effective sharpener. I’ve decided to do something about my always-dull knives. There are too many sharpeners out there, though. Anyone have a preference? This one gets good reviews:
https://www.bladehq.com/item--Spyderco-Sharpmaker--1859
ebay has hundreds of used sharpening stones at very reasonable prices. I’m tempted to give an ebay stone a try, but the modern systems seem more likely to produce a good result.
You don't need more crap. Sandpaper and a flat hard surface (old window pane, hunk of granite) will allow you to sharpen to a nice edge quickly.
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you can sharpen on/with all kinda stuff
When cooking at a 'non-foodie' friend's house who had crappy, dull knives... I sharpened her knife to a very usable edge on the unglazed rim on the bottom of a crockery bowl
I used to work with a chinese chef who sharpened a #10 can lid on the concrete of the loading dock to a hair-popping edge (to settle a bet)
I say again, get that Spiderco sharpener and dont think twice
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When cooking at a 'non-foodie' friend's house who had crappy, dull knives... I sharpened her knife to a very usable edge on the unglazed rim on the bottom of a crockery bowl
That bring back memories of when i first started dating my now wife.
Firstly I sharpened her one and only 3" knife on the back step
After that I took to putting all my knives in the back of the car every time I went up north.
:laugh: :laugh:
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Dxhall - you should specify, kitchen knives or utility knives.
There's a difference between sharpening an every day carry/pocket knife to cut rope
and canvas and motor oil bottles and kitchen knives to slice through
tomatoes or slice paper thin onions.
Also different needs if you have a Dexter Sanisafe or Wustoff chef knife or a $700+ custom.
If you are talking kitchen knives, listen to what Clifford said.
-AJ
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the Mrs picked up one of those $10 deals with course and fine sections.
Seems to work OK. So someone tell me what's all the ruckus about?
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Seems to work OK. So someone tell me what's all the ruckus about?
Harley Davidson? Honda? Moto Guzzi? They're all just 2 wheels, handlebars and an engine in the wind. What's the difference?.....
There isn't really any difference. Your knives. Your choice. A sharp edge is an end result, no matter how you get there. Just like an oil thread or UFOs. Right and wrong all depends on who's asking and who's answering. The only truth is that dull knives are a drag.
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Mentioning knives, I see that researchers have made a knife blade out of wood that is 3 times sharper than stainless steel.
https://usanewslab.com/science/steak-knife-made-from-hardened-wood-is-3-times-sharper-than-steel/
They've figured out ways to process wood that make it stronger than steel.