Author Topic: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?  (Read 1342 times)

Online dirtiegirtie

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Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« on: June 10, 2021, 02:32:04 PM »
I have a 2015 V7 stone (I'm in the USA, so it is NOT an ii model). She only has 5.5k miles on her. I've always thought that she shook much more than she should at lower revs, and today I tried to keep the revs over 4k into work... so much smoother!

When folks say, "Don't lug her" I assumed they meant try not to run her under 2k. But it's like there is a 'smoothness' switch right around 3,800-4,000 RPMs.

So what is the real definition of "lugging" for my V7? Is it anything under 2k? under 3k? 3.5k? Or is anything under 4k "lugging it" on these machines?

To understand my perspective: My other bike is a Yamaha Raider. There is no such thing as lugging her. Full torque is pretty much available at Idle... so that's been my 'main' personal experience for the last few years.

Offline Guzzistaracing

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2021, 02:45:54 PM »
I think you have been lugging her. Italian engines usualy like more revs. I have not owned a V7 but plenty of other Guzzis and the last time I rode a V7 I did not notice any vibration. Keep the revs above 2k, sweet spot is usually around 4k. You will learn what the engine likes. Do not be afraid to rev it. It is much more damaging for the engine and transmission to be lugged.  I guess the owners of V7s will chime in soon.
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2021, 03:00:47 PM »
A rule to thumb, on big blocks it's around 3K before it smooths out & small blocks is 1000rpm higher. Always been that way since the beginning of smallblocks.
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Offline egschade

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2021, 03:01:20 PM »
As noted in the previous post the V7 has a definite sweet spot and it's at a higher RPM than you've been riding. When riding at too low an RPM you'll get low vibration 'shudder' which is rough on the engine and drive train. 

Didn't have a tach on my V7 III Stone but would say the engine was happiest at half-throttle which would equate to 3500-5000. Just bring the revs up in any particular gear and you'll notice when it smooths out and again when higher frequency vibes come in. Find those lower and higher rev points and shift to keep the engine between them. Both you and the bike will be happier.
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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2021, 03:01:20 PM »

Offline TimmyTheHog

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2021, 03:10:44 PM »
with the minimum amount of time I have with Guzzi (v7 and some odd test rides), I ride her at the RPM where she feels smooth...

it was above 2.5K for my V7 while the V85TT first gen I test rode was more like in 4....

so...can't comment if you been lugging her but sounds like she wasn't happy.

Give a bit more rev I would say.
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Offline stonelover

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2021, 03:37:15 PM »
My 2016 V7 II has good torque at low (2500) RPM but is happiest at 3500 or above. Most of my riding is at 3500-5000. Let 'er spin!

Online Guzzistajohn

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2021, 03:55:07 PM »
Talk to smithswede, he has over 100,000 on his V7 actually 123,456 miles just the other day  :laugh: he runs the @#$& out of his! I rode behind him on the Cal-Vin not long ago
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Online DougG

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2021, 04:44:02 PM »
Hi Dirtie,                                                                                                                6-10-21

Ditto to a lot that has already been said.  I can add from experience that my two Cali 1400's cruise best at 3500-4k range.  They are smooth, the right mix of hp and torque are available at that rpm range, and they just sound unstressed (very unscientific, I know).    Don't be afraid to let it run.   :wink:

Be well, stay well,
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Online Guzzistajohn

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2021, 04:51:25 PM »
my cal-vin is happy @ 42. I don't go to 5th under 80 MPH
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Offline moto-uno

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2021, 04:55:08 PM »
 And holy crap , Yamaha Raider , you're setting the bar a bit high for that dinky little Guzzi , don't you think.  :embarrassed: . Peter

Offline blu guzz

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2021, 04:55:21 PM »
the ones I have had love being flogged.  show no mercy, rev it out. 
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Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2021, 04:59:58 PM »
Yes!

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Offline Stretch

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2021, 05:51:36 PM »
I try to keep my  1400 above 3K. It's much happier there.

6th gear is really an overdrive and I'm getting used to that.

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Online John A

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2021, 06:00:15 PM »
A lot of riders think they are being kind to their bikes by keeping the revs down but especially with Guzzis that is not the case. Only time to keep the revs low is during warm up.  Besides making the engine work harder it tends to hammer drive line components. Tape the tach face so you can’t see the needle below 4K.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 08:43:51 PM by John A »
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Offline GeorgiaGuzzi

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2021, 08:00:51 PM »
Just adding my .02 to the pile. I try not to let my Quota 1100 drop below 3500. I usually keep it around 4, which on two lane roads means it’s a 4 speed!  :afro:

Offline Guzzi Gal

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2021, 08:15:17 PM »
Coming out of 1st is the only time I shift at 4000rpms. Everything else gets to 4200 or 4500 (sometimes 4700). I basically shift it like a VW Bug.  :bike-037:
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 10:33:35 PM by Guzzi Gal »
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Offline Vagrant

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2021, 08:32:34 PM »
Coming out of 1st is the only time I shift at 4000rmps. Everything else gets to 4200 or 4500 (sometimes 4700). I basically shift it like a VW Bug.  :bike-037:

This!

The 2015 is happy at 4500 and up. 4000 is min in 4000 in 1&2.
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Online Kev m

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2021, 09:43:06 PM »
I have a 2015 V7 stone (I'm in the USA, so it is NOT an ii model). She only has 5.5k miles on her. I've always thought that she shook much more than she should at lower revs, and today I tried to keep the revs over 4k into work... so much smoother!

I was gonna refrain from answering because bottom line it's not a set number. Lugging is based on the motor design plus ambient conditions which equals load, altitude, and temperature.

As someone who prefers large bore twins I tend to enjoy lower rpm twins. But I've equally recognized Guzzis like to spin a little more.

Your own post answers the question. If it smooths out at a higher rpm, well, that's the right rpm.

That said in not sure of the hard numbers people have posted. I've found many of my Guzzis are happy even with my not so small load on em at ~3k. And smallblocks have been tuned for lower and lower rpm since the 1tb models debuted, even moreso since the Hemi heads. But at the end of the day it's still load and ambient dependent.
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Offline Huzo

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2021, 10:53:39 PM »
6th gear is really an overdrive
Please tell me what you mean by that ?

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2021, 11:27:55 PM »
Wot they said
Plus at that mileage it's barely run in, it will seem to have more power and rev more freely as it gets some more miles under the belt.
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Offline Huzo

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2021, 12:04:58 AM »
The old wisdom says that the Guzzi will protest more at lower rpm / high throttle setting combinations , more than a comparable 360 degree twin.
If No 1 fires at zero degrees, No 2 fires at 270 degrees.
So it is another 450 degrees before No1 fires again etc...
The addition of the two adds up to (correctly) 720 degrees.
It can be seen that there is a shorter pause between #1 & #2, than the subsequent interval from #2 and around again to #1.
The flywheel decelerates slightly between power pulses and must accelerate again during the downgoing piston movement on the power stroke. The relatively heavy flywheel can mask this a bit, but not hide it completely.
The “shaking” of the engine, whilst pleasant in some respects to ones senses, is a physical manifestation of the torture that is being wrought upon the mechanicals within.

Offline Guzzi Gal

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2021, 12:22:07 AM »
The old wisdom says that the Guzzi will protest more at lower rpm / high throttle setting combinations, more than a comparable 360 degree twin.

The “shaking” of the engine, whilst pleasant in some respects to ones senses, is a physical manifestation of the torture that is being wrought upon the mechanicals within.

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Online dirtiegirtie

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2021, 04:11:42 AM »
Thanks, folks. Clearly I have to get used to keeping the RPMs up on her. Much appreciated!

Offline Huzo

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2021, 04:16:46 AM »
You lost me in the first sentence and got me back in the last.  :bow:
Suffice to say GG, that a Guzzi puts it’s power to the ground like a cantering horse.
Dum..Dum......Dum.. Dum.....Dum..Dum... Guzzi etc
 Dum...Dum...Dum...D um...Dum...Dum....B MW boxer etc
If you notice the second example, you’ll see that there are even dots (time intervals) between the bangs.
Although both examples deliver the same number of pulses (basically) in the same time span.
If you are pushing your kids out of the door to go to school, they will slow down in between pushes. The best way is to push them every 2 seconds.
If you push them once then wait 5 seconds and then give them another one, they’ll have slowed down and will continue forward in a series of intermittent lunges...
Once you get them moving at a pace where they’re about to crash forward on their faces, the motion starts to smooth out.
Sound more familiar now...?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 04:27:07 AM by Huzo »

Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2021, 05:05:33 AM »
Please tell me what you mean by that ?

When the output shaft is turning slower than the input shaft of the transmission. Any ratio that is less than 1 to 1, such as 1 to .80 for instance, is considered overdrive.

John Henry
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Offline Huzo

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2021, 05:32:54 AM »
When the output shaft is turning slower than the input shaft of the transmission. Any ratio that is less than 1 to 1, such as 1 to .80 for instance, is considered overdrive.

John Henry
As I suspected...
I was enquiring as to the accuracy of Stretch’s statement that 6 th gear on his bike was “really an overdrive..”
It’s an often used phrase, but I’m suspecting that the output shaft in the gearbox, is not spinning faster than the input shaft in any gear.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 05:55:24 AM by Huzo »

Online Scout63

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2021, 06:07:15 AM »
I’m still getting used to riding a Guzzi, but my v50 needs high revs to find its power.  It seems happiest around 5,000 rpm.  I like to ride it up in the rev range just because it sounds so good. 
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Offline Stretch

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2021, 06:33:54 AM »
My point is that 6th is really only useful at speed on the highway, which is kinda the purpose of
an "overdrive." Based on the information below - 6th IS an overdrive on the big California.

o·ver·drive
/ˈōvərˌdrīv/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: overdrive; plural noun: overdrives

    1.
    a gear in a motor vehicle providing a gear ratio higher than that of direct drive (the usual top gear), so that the engine speed can be reduced at high road speeds to lessen fuel consumption or to allow further acceleration.

https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/moto%20guzzi/moto_guzzi_california_1400%2017.htm

5th gear is listed here at 1:0.968 and 6th is listed at 1:0.8. So, it might be argued that both 5th and 6th
are technically overdrive gears.

My experience is that 6th on this bike is really only used when getting on for 70 MPH or more unless one wants to "lug" the motor.
Under very light throttle at 65 MPH or so, the motor shows no signs of lugging, but it ain't gonna accelerate very
well under those conditions, and will let the rider know that - "Hey, I don't like this! Shift down a cog or two will ya!"

My Rocket iii Touring has the following ratios:

Gear Ratio   1st: 41/14 / 2nd: 37/19 / 3rd: 33/23 / 4th: 29/25 / 5th: 27/28

It doesn't like anything below about 60 in top for the same reasons as the big California doesn't. And it looks like
5th in that case is designed as an overdrive as well.

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Offline Huzo

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2021, 07:26:27 AM »
Yes Stretch, the final drive ratio in the gearbox is numerically speaking an over drive, however the overall reduction down the drive train from the crank to the rear wheel still represents an approximate ratio of about 3.5:1
3.5 revs of the crank to one rev of the rear wheel.
The crank still has a large mechanical advantage over the rear wheel.
For instance at 3,000 engine rpm, your Cali 1400 might be around 100 kph, if the rear wheel was doing the same rpm, the bike would be doing around 350 kph.
So it can be seen that the overall ratio is still about 3.5:1
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 07:31:33 AM by Huzo »

Offline Stretch

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Re: Have I been lugging my Guzzi?
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2021, 07:45:34 AM »
Quote
For instance at 3,000 engine rpm, your Cali 1400 might be around 100 kph, if the rear wheel was doing the same rpm, the bike would be doing around 350 kph.

And wouldn't THAT be somethin'!  :shocked:  :grin:
'Course, the engine doesn't have enough power to overcome the aerodynamic resistance
at that speed, especially at 3,500 RPM.........

In any semantical event, 6th gear on the Cali is a gear for hi-speed, long-distance running, yes?!   :laugh:

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