Author Topic: All new HD sportster:Merged topics  (Read 4078 times)

Online Kev m

  • Not your normal Hombre
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 30431
  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2021, 03:53:27 PM »
I like it.
Strong motor, yes, and hurray for that! Might just crush Indian at their own styling and performance game. For now.
Problem for me is, I don't see a Sportster in there.
Harley Sportster, to me, has always meant "less is more", or accomplishing more with less. Keepin' it simple and providing a great jump off point to make of her what you will. My last new Sporty was in the late 80's and I could see a link back 30yrs to the original. Advancements after that only enhanced the experience. (Rubber mount, 5 speed, belt drive etc..)
 But that simple concept remained. "Here's your Motor, Frame and Tank, now go make it YOUR bike!".
But here, something is lost in translation.
Call it something else, just not a Sportster.

So the "this isn't a Sportster" thing smells of the old "not a real..."

It's a subjective thing that really boils down to preference and likes not facts.

But I will attempt to persuade with facts anyway, you are free to agree or dismiss obviously.

The original Sportster was a unitized, OHV, smaller and sportier departure from what Harley was building. Yes it was a jack of all trades and was used in everything from endurance racing to drag racing to land speed records.

As time went in it quickly lost its performance edge and was eventually relegated to entry level bike, often chopped bobbed, or otherwise heavily modified.

As the factory chased these themes the bike gained weight and comfort at the cost of performance, suspension, and lean angle.

Enter the Revolution powered Sportster S

A 1250cc, water-cooled, VVT, Multimap platform with double the hp of the last of the EVO Sportsters and a good 40-50% more torque.

The engine is truly a stressed member now, the chassis boats RDRS (cornering ABS and Traction Control) with a beefy 4-piston Brembo monoblock front brake.

LED Lighting, Cruise Control, and a TFT display which Bluetooth's NAV and other features to your meter are among the standard features.

Yet, it's still a pretty bare bones chases with lines, overall dimensions, etc that harken back to the exact things that the Sportster had become of late. Suspension travel, tire sizes etc all mimic what the Sportster had become.

At the same time performance has increased and not only in a straight line but significantly in the curves as well.

I would put forth then that Sportster is dead, long live the Sportster.

In a way this new Sportster is doing the same thing that the original did in 57 and honoring that at the same time.

Hell I don't even like water-cooled bikes but it's got me listening.

You could argue my tastes are very much Harley old guard, but they've got my attention with this one in ways I never expected.

I think that bodes well... In looking forward to seeing what else they do with this platform. But surprisingly ice not ruled out owning one of these and I'm not running out to the dealer to find a leftover EVO either  huh?
Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

Offline kingoffleece

  • SplitWeight(tm) seat covers
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4014
  • Rated 5 STARS Motorcycle Consumer News
  • Location: Valley of the Sun
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2021, 04:04:53 PM »
Endlessly entertaining
SplitWeight(tm) seat covers. A King of Fleece LLC product.

Online AJ Huff

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4069
  • Location: College Community IA
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2021, 05:16:47 PM »
I'm in love with the look of the Revolution engine.

As my California Spec approaches EOS, I need to start thinking of a replacement. For service, Indian
Is at the top of my list. Harley would be a smarter choice but they have zero that interests me...
until now. I like the Pan Am but it would only be a street bike for me. I like this better. Can't wait to
see what other options come out with this new motor.

-AJ
'71 Ambassador
'01 California Special
'05 Road King
MGNOC# L-753

Online tazio

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2730
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2021, 06:30:04 PM »
Kev. Call it the way you see it (or the way you think someone else's opinion really meant).
Most people that do, in my experience, limit themselves from a broader viewpoint.
I like this bike as stated.
I don't see it possessing the qualities of a Sportster for the reasons I stated.
They can call it the Harley Sprinkler (water cooled, right?),
but it ain't no Sportster.
Current Fleet
2015 Moto-Guzzi GRiSO
1972 Aermacchi Harley-Davidson 350 Sprint
1967 Kawasaki 650 W2TT
1966 Triumph Bonneville

Wildguzzi.com

Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2021, 06:30:04 PM »

Online twowheeladdict

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6150
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2021, 09:51:39 PM »
When that bike/engine hit the market, the writing was on the wall.

 

And what was that writing on the wall?

That eventually all Harleys would be liquid cooled?

Or, that the Vrod would only have a 17 model year run?
2022 Moto Guzzi V85TT Guardia D'onore
2018 V7 III Carbon Dark #0009 of 1921
2018 Road Glide Special
2021 Kawasaki KLX300SM
2017 Suzuki Van Van 200
2009 Harley Davidson Softail Custom

Offline cliffrod

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2171
  • AC Button II
    • Carolina Sculpture Studio
  • Location: Spartanburg, SC USA
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #65 on: July 15, 2021, 06:51:49 AM »
And what was that writing on the wall?

That eventually all Harleys would be liquid cooled?

Or, that the Vrod would only have a 17 model year run?

The writing was that Liquid cooling would be the likely & unavoidable result of changing EPA rules & regulations and market realities.  The VRod was the first production model in that effort and completely divergent from the decades old HD big twin platform and architecture.  It was the first step towards that destination.

It's probably no coincidence that this new Revolution engined Sportster is being released after the water cooled entry-level 750 has been on the market for a while.   riders comfortable with that platform are likely looking to trade up to a bigger but equally familiar bike.  It makes sense that a new water cooled big bike will follow this Sportster in a similar manner for similar reasons.  A new core customer base can be developed as those who have driven much of new HD sales for the past 20-30 yrs age out of the market and at the same time as new rules & regulations need to be met.

 
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio YuoTube Channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifz

Offline kingoffleece

  • SplitWeight(tm) seat covers
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4014
  • Rated 5 STARS Motorcycle Consumer News
  • Location: Valley of the Sun
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #66 on: July 15, 2021, 07:10:44 AM »
Aside from how dumb it looks, what to me gets to the core of this is the nebulous motor.   It's got gobs of power, and is no doubt mucho fun from that perspective, but it lacks any real identity.  Stick any big liquid cooled v2 from any of the big boys and you would still have essentially the same motorcycle.  So HD has done what every one else has been doing, big deal.  Perhaps it is what they felt they needed to do to stay relevant with the times, but it's too generic for my taste. 

I do hope the new Moto Guzzi shows more originality.


Most likely spot on.  But, what does anyone making bikes do?  Janus is vilified for being under powered, H-D is raked over coals by many for the PanAm styling, and so forth.  Further, any designer has to look 3-5 years into the future.  Not for the faint of heart!
SplitWeight(tm) seat covers. A King of Fleece LLC product.

Online blackcat

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 8855
  • Location: USA
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #67 on: July 15, 2021, 07:46:57 AM »
In the last few years HD has developed a new water cooled engine producing 150HP and utilized that engine in two bikes and they also have a well styled electric motorcycle. Though sales are slow on the Livewire, maybe they will increase now that they have lowered the price to $22K.

Over a similar time period, Moto Guzzi has changed colors on their small blocks, added a dual purpose bike with a slightly less underpowered engine and shown a fuzzy picture of some kind of bike.  And they ditched their big block engined bikes.  Exciting.
1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline cliffrod

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2171
  • AC Button II
    • Carolina Sculpture Studio
  • Location: Spartanburg, SC USA
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #68 on: July 15, 2021, 09:02:11 AM »
In the last few years HD has developed a new water cooled engine producing 150HP and utilized that engine in two bikes and they also have a well styled electric motorcycle. Though sales are slow on the Livewire, maybe they will increase now that they have lowered the price to $22K.

I have not personally seen the service procedure requirements that HD corporate sent to dealerships, so will not repeat specific aspects as I was told.  If accurate (which I fully believe them to be, coming from trusted properly-connected friends whom I've known for decades), I will submit that the practically unbelievable & over-the-top safety protocol measures required are most likely the reason that a given dealership would not want anything to do selling & servicing LiveWire bikes.   

If & when the bulletin(s) are made public, it will exonerate a lot of those "uninterested" dealerships that folks like to bash.  And if the same service protocol remains as company SOP, simply lowering the price isn't going to make the dealerships any more interested in handling the bike.
1973 V7 Sport  "Now THAT'S a motorcycle!"-  Master Sculptor Giuliano Cecchinelli
1967 V700 Corsa Record
1981 Lemans CX100
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExX3YmQel_Q
http://carolinasculpturestudio.com/
Carolina Sculpture Studio YuoTube Channel-
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzSYaYdis55gE-vqifz

Online AJ Huff

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4069
  • Location: College Community IA
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2021, 09:54:14 AM »
Why do you guys hate water cooled bikes so much?

-AJ
'71 Ambassador
'01 California Special
'05 Road King
MGNOC# L-753

Online Dirk_S

  • www.dirkshearer.com
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1506
  • Doodler of doodles
    • www.DirkShearer.com
  • Location: Portland, Maine, U.S.
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #70 on: July 15, 2021, 09:58:26 AM »
Why do you guys hate water cooled bikes so much?

-AJ

Guzzis have a reputation of being easier to work on and being more simple.

Adding a radiator with hoses = more parts to have to worry about, more things that can go wrong.
Current: ‘16 Guzzi V7 II Stone, ‘78 BMW R80/7

Previous: ‘15 Ural Gear Up, ‘77 Kawasaki KZ400 Special, ‘78 Honda CX500S, ‘80 Honda CX500D, ‘11 Suzuki TU250X

Online blackcat

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 8855
  • Location: USA
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #71 on: July 15, 2021, 10:03:38 AM »
As this video of the first Livewire service shows, they can be dangerous just like any hybrid or all electric vehicle on the market.

https://youtu.be/rvUKOx_5J_o

The last time I was at my local HD dealer in which I took the LW for a ride, they claimed to have sold 6 LW that month and that was at the higher price. Certainly, some regional markets are not going to sell these bikes until it has become widely sold. Maybe that won't happen for a while, but the point I'm trying to make is that they are at least trying to bring different bikes and buyers into the showrooms.
1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Online twowheeladdict

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6150
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #72 on: July 15, 2021, 10:32:37 AM »
Why do you guys hate water cooled bikes so much?

-AJ

For me there are several reasons starting with aesthetics.  Some manufacturers are doing better than others at hiding the radiator and lines / hoses.  But many are eyesores and ruin the look of the bike / engine.  On fully faired bikes not as much of an issue.
Second, is that it is another failure point. Rock causes leak, bike dead on side of road.
3rd, more systems to maintain.
4th.  Where I ride I have no need for it since I avoid well traveled and congested roads.
2022 Moto Guzzi V85TT Guardia D'onore
2018 V7 III Carbon Dark #0009 of 1921
2018 Road Glide Special
2021 Kawasaki KLX300SM
2017 Suzuki Van Van 200
2009 Harley Davidson Softail Custom

Online Dirk_S

  • www.dirkshearer.com
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1506
  • Doodler of doodles
    • www.DirkShearer.com
  • Location: Portland, Maine, U.S.
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #73 on: July 15, 2021, 10:34:27 AM »
Why do you guys hate water cooled bikes so much?

-AJ

Adds more weight, I forgot to add.
Current: ‘16 Guzzi V7 II Stone, ‘78 BMW R80/7

Previous: ‘15 Ural Gear Up, ‘77 Kawasaki KZ400 Special, ‘78 Honda CX500S, ‘80 Honda CX500D, ‘11 Suzuki TU250X

Online blackcat

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 8855
  • Location: USA
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #74 on: July 15, 2021, 10:49:00 AM »
For me there are several reasons starting with aesthetics.  Some manufacturers are doing better than others at hiding the radiator and lines / hoses.  But many are eyesores and ruin the look of the bike / engine.  On fully faired bikes not as much of an issue.
Second, is that it is another failure point. Rock causes leak, bike dead on side of road.
3rd, more systems to maintain.
4th.  Where I ride I have no need for it since I avoid well traveled and congested roads.

BMW can make an oil head bike that meet's EURO 5 and has over a 100HP.  Triumph makes a water cooled engine with minimal radiator presence on their Classic bikes with over 100HP and the weight is fairly close to a Guzzi small block.   I'm sure there are issues with those bikes in certain conditions, but they seem to be doing OK.

Now if you manufacture a bike that blows fuses on their foglights and you can't fix it at the source even though it's a known problem then yeah, keep away from those complicated bikes. And forget about making bikes that have those complicated hydraulic lifters.
1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Online Dirk_S

  • www.dirkshearer.com
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1506
  • Doodler of doodles
    • www.DirkShearer.com
  • Location: Portland, Maine, U.S.
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #75 on: July 15, 2021, 11:06:27 AM »
Triumph makes a water cooled engine with minimal radiator presence on their Classic bikes with over 100HP and the weight is fairly close to a Guzzi small block.

Where are you seeing those numbers?

The Bonneville T120 is liquid-cooled, 520 lb (ouch), 1200cc, and only puts out 79 hp. The Scrambler 1200 puts out 89 hp.

The new Guzzi V7 850 is 480/490 lb, 853cc, and puts out 65 HP. Sure, a chunk of that HP is lost at the rear, but for an air-cooled bike, I find that pretty respectable compared to the Triumph.
Current: ‘16 Guzzi V7 II Stone, ‘78 BMW R80/7

Previous: ‘15 Ural Gear Up, ‘77 Kawasaki KZ400 Special, ‘78 Honda CX500S, ‘80 Honda CX500D, ‘11 Suzuki TU250X

Online blackcat

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 8855
  • Location: USA
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #76 on: July 15, 2021, 11:18:49 AM »
Where are you seeing those numbers?

The Bonneville T120 is liquid-cooled, 520 lb (ouch), 1200cc, and only puts out 79 hp. The Scrambler 1200 puts out 89 hp.

The new Guzzi V7 850 is 480/490 lb, 853cc, and puts out 65 HP. Sure, a chunk of that HP is lost at the rear, but for an air-cooled bike, I find that pretty respectable compared to the Triumph.

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/buyers-guide/2020-triumph-thruxton-1200-r-rs/

454 dry weight with 100+hp
1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Online Dirk_S

  • www.dirkshearer.com
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1506
  • Doodler of doodles
    • www.DirkShearer.com
  • Location: Portland, Maine, U.S.
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #77 on: July 15, 2021, 11:36:31 AM »
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/buyers-guide/2020-triumph-thruxton-1200-r-rs/

454 dry weight with 100+hp

Thanks. That RS is the only classic model I see pushing past 100 hp.

...and nearly twice as expensive as the new Goose. I'm willing to bet there's some titanium bits thrown in there.

Not quite apples to apples, IMO.
Current: ‘16 Guzzi V7 II Stone, ‘78 BMW R80/7

Previous: ‘15 Ural Gear Up, ‘77 Kawasaki KZ400 Special, ‘78 Honda CX500S, ‘80 Honda CX500D, ‘11 Suzuki TU250X

Online blackcat

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 8855
  • Location: USA
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #78 on: July 15, 2021, 11:47:11 AM »
Nope, not the same.

But the point is, there is nothing in the MG lineup that comes even close and it doesn't look like there will be any in the future and if there is, they have been keeping a very tight lip on that development. And I'm not giving much weight to that fuzzy picture.
1968 Norton Fastback
1976 Lemans
1981 CX-100
1993 1000S
1997 Daytona RS
2007 Red Norge

Offline kidsmoke

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1386
  • It's never too late to be what you might have been
Re: All new HD sportster, yuk!
« Reply #79 on: July 15, 2021, 11:56:33 AM »
Oh look, the new Harley-Davidson 'Scout'.

My thoughts exactly. At first blush I was stunned they did such a blatant rip off.

What the Scout wishes it could be.  The Scout has a great engine, but that is where the comparison starts and ends.  The Harley is leaps and bounds better on paper when it comes to chassis, suspension, brakes, you know, all the things that make a motorcycle actually handle instead of just look good.

Really? Based on what criteria?

Engine: you state admiration of the Scout motor, even at 21 less HP
Chassis: both have an aluminum chassis with a liquid cooled v-twin as a stressed member.
Suspension: Scout rear 3" front 4.7" Sportster, rear 2" Front 3.6
Brakes: each have a single disk front and rear
fuel capacity: Scout 3.3 Sportster 3.1
weight: scout 561 sporty: 502
ground clearance: scout 5.7 sporty 3.6
wheelbase: scout 62 sporty 60

so the edge goes to HD on power to weight ratio and wheelbase. Significant. Both bikes are ridiculous IMHO with a single front disc at 500+ lbs and 100 or better HP, particularly since they're considered 'entry level' bikes by their companies ( I know a family that just put their 18 yr old daughter and 20 yr old son, and 47 yr old Mom on 2021 Sportsters, prior to taking classes. Dad rides, and the dealership was all too happy to oblige)

You really lost me on the 'leaps and bounds' thing, particularly when it's such a clear design rip-off. Leaps and bounds would make sense in that case. If you're gonna steal their mousetrap, build it MUCH better. Don't steal it, change the name on it, and call it a revolutionary (pun intended). May be revolutionary to HD, but it's simply getting them in the lane Indian created, and has owned for years.....

and Indian does all that, plus accomodating a pillion, stock, for $4000.00 less.







« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 12:01:02 PM by kidsmoke »
'79 G5
'93 1000S
'00 Jackal
'09 GRiSO

Online Kev m

  • Not your normal Hombre
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 30431
  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: All new HD sportster, yuk!
« Reply #80 on: July 15, 2021, 02:18:50 PM »
My thoughts exactly. At first blush I was stunned they did such a blatant rip off.

Really? Based on what criteria?

Engine: you state admiration of the Scout motor, even at 21 less HP
Chassis: both have an aluminum chassis with a liquid cooled v-twin as a stressed member.
Suspension: Scout rear 3" front 4.7" Sportster, rear 2" Front 3.6
Brakes: each have a single disk front and rear
fuel capacity: Scout 3.3 Sportster 3.1
weight: scout 561 sporty: 502
ground clearance: scout 5.7 sporty 3.6
wheelbase: scout 62 sporty 60

so the edge goes to HD on power to weight ratio and wheelbase. Significant. Both bikes are ridiculous IMHO with a single front disc at 500+ lbs and 100 or better HP, particularly since they're considered 'entry level' bikes by their companies ( I know a family that just put their 18 yr old daughter and 20 yr old son, and 47 yr old Mom on 2021 Sportsters, prior to taking classes. Dad rides, and the dealership was all too happy to oblige)

You really lost me on the 'leaps and bounds' thing, particularly when it's such a clear design rip-off. Leaps and bounds would make sense in that case. If you're gonna steal their mousetrap, build it MUCH better. Don't steal it, change the name on it, and call it a revolutionary (pun intended). May be revolutionary to HD, but it's simply getting them in the lane Indian created, and has owned for years.....

and Indian does all that, plus accomodating a pillion, stock, for $4000.00 less.

To be clear, I like and have ridden the Scout.

But your comparison misses:

Sporty S has significantly more lean angle 5° each side
Sporty S single brake is a 4-pot Brembo monoblock
Sporty S has not only ABS, but cornering ABS/TC
Sporty S has cruise control and a TFT screen that offers BT navigation and other features.
Sporty S has hydraulic valves and therefore no adjustments

These are all pretty significant advantages to the new Sporty over the Scout.

I'm also not sure there Harley is intending or marketing THIS Sportster as an entry level product. They are still currently selling 883s, and future smaller displacement Revolution motors are expected.

I know they are dropping or dropped the Street 500/750, but they are also taking about a Chinese 300 rebranded. Those are more entry level products. Though entry to the brand doesn't have to mean entry to riding/new rider.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 02:24:00 PM by Kev m »
Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

Offline Tiki Joe

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Location: Lake St. Louis, MO
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #81 on: July 15, 2021, 02:30:38 PM »
I like it....I think it looks bad azz!  However, I'm not the guy that would buy one.  I had a Sportster years ago...wanna say it was a '96.  883 that I punched out to 1200 and it ran good for a Harley at below 50 mph.  It shook and vibrated so bad above 50 that I couldn't stand to ride it. 
This new one I think would be a fun bike around town but I don't have a need / want for that type of bike. 
1997 Moto Guzzi Sport 1100
1993 Ducati Superlight
2015 Harley Road Glide Special
2015 Harley Road King

Online twowheeladdict

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6150
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #82 on: July 15, 2021, 02:40:58 PM »
BMW can make an oil head bike that meet's EURO 5 and has over a 100HP.  Triumph makes a water cooled engine with minimal radiator presence on their Classic bikes with over 100HP and the weight is fairly close to a Guzzi small block.   I'm sure there are issues with those bikes in certain conditions, but they seem to be doing OK.

Now if you manufacture a bike that blows fuses on their foglights and you can't fix it at the source even though it's a known problem then yeah, keep away from those complicated bikes. And forget about making bikes that have those complicated hydraulic lifters.

Not sure why you brought HP into the equation.  Or the fuses, while quoting my post about why I don't care for liquid cooling. 

I don't really care about HP.  I am comfortable in my manhood and have a blast on my Van Van 200, KLX300SM, and V7III.  The Road Glide is a torque monster so HP doesn't really matter since I am not going for redline which is where HP numbers are made. 
2022 Moto Guzzi V85TT Guardia D'onore
2018 V7 III Carbon Dark #0009 of 1921
2018 Road Glide Special
2021 Kawasaki KLX300SM
2017 Suzuki Van Van 200
2009 Harley Davidson Softail Custom

Online bad Chad

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 9551
  • Location: Central Il
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #83 on: July 15, 2021, 03:00:05 PM »
From Kev, "But your comparison misses:

Sporty S has significantly more lean angle 5° each side
Sporty S single brake is a 4-pot Brembo monoblock
Sporty S has not only ABS, but cornering ABS/TC
Sporty S has cruise control and a TFT screen that offers BT navigation and other features.
Sporty S has hydraulic valves and therefore no adjustments

These are all pretty significant advantages to the new Sporty over the Scout. "

IMO, 5% lean angle isn't going to mean much to most buyers.
4 pot Brembo monoblock "should" offer better braking, tests will tell. 
Cornering ABS/tc is a plus
hydraulic valves, are convient!

But those pluses aren't enough to equal a $4000 premium.
2007 Breva 1100  Red Arrow (and faster than yours!)
2016 CSC 250TT Zongshen
2017 V9 Roamer

Online twowheeladdict

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 6150
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #84 on: July 15, 2021, 03:54:49 PM »
From Kev, "But your comparison misses:

Sporty S has significantly more lean angle 5° each side
Sporty S single brake is a 4-pot Brembo monoblock
Sporty S has not only ABS, but cornering ABS/TC
Sporty S has cruise control and a TFT screen that offers BT navigation and other features.
Sporty S has hydraulic valves and therefore no adjustments

These are all pretty significant advantages to the new Sporty over the Scout. "

IMO, 5% lean angle isn't going to mean much to most buyers.
4 pot Brembo monoblock "should" offer better braking, tests will tell. 
Cornering ABS/tc is a plus
hydraulic valves, are convient!

But those pluses aren't enough to equal a $4000 premium.

Don’t forget fully adjustable suspension on the Sporty S.
2022 Moto Guzzi V85TT Guardia D'onore
2018 V7 III Carbon Dark #0009 of 1921
2018 Road Glide Special
2021 Kawasaki KLX300SM
2017 Suzuki Van Van 200
2009 Harley Davidson Softail Custom

Online Kev m

  • Not your normal Hombre
  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 30431
  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #85 on: July 15, 2021, 03:56:33 PM »
From Kev, "But your comparison misses:

Sporty S has significantly more lean angle 5° each side
Sporty S single brake is a 4-pot Brembo monoblock
Sporty S has not only ABS, but cornering ABS/TC
Sporty S has cruise control and a TFT screen that offers BT navigation and other features.
Sporty S has hydraulic valves and therefore no adjustments

These are all pretty significant advantages to the new Sporty over the Scout. "

IMO, 5% lean angle isn't going to mean much to most buyers.
4 pot Brembo monoblock "should" offer better braking, tests will tell. 
Cornering ABS/tc is a plus
hydraulic valves, are convient!

But those pluses aren't enough to equal a $4000 premium.

Having owned a bike with 29° of lean (like the Scout) and having changed it to 32°+ it's a significant difference (to me) and likely to many. Looking across Harley's line it's the difference between the old Softails and more cornering than anything else they've built in the past few decades except the XR/XRX.

And Two makes another point I forgot, the adjustable suspension at both ends.

THAT'S more than enough to make up the $4k difference to me and I'm betting a lot of other people. But time will tell.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 03:58:16 PM by Kev m »
Current Fleet

18 Guzzi V7III Carbon Dark
13 Guzzi V7 Stone
11 Duc M696

Online bad Chad

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 9551
  • Location: Central Il
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #86 on: July 15, 2021, 05:29:34 PM »
Indeed, it likely will sell fairly well, if not better.

In the end it won’t sell to folks like me who are already damming it, but there are a lot more who will likely see it through a different lens.
2007 Breva 1100  Red Arrow (and faster than yours!)
2016 CSC 250TT Zongshen
2017 V9 Roamer

Offline TN Mark

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 676
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #87 on: July 15, 2021, 05:53:48 PM »
I showed the right side picture to my wife. Her comment: “wow, that looks awesome!”. She’s even farther from the aimed demographic than I am. Yea, I suspect it will sell quite well. I hope H-D has a legitimate hit on their hands. They, and the market need that.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 11:44:17 PM by TN Mark »

Offline Solorider73

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • *
  • Posts: 205
  • Location: Huntsville Alabama
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2021, 09:25:33 PM »
I just read this whole thread and I can’t wait for the unicorn Moto Guzzi water cooled engine release.  :popcorn:  Should make for days of entertainment.

Back to HD. I don’t dislike the new Sportster, but it also doesn’t thrill me.  However, I do think it will sell well for the demographic they are targeting.  HD seems to be upping their game with lean sensitive abs, TC and other specs.  As far as copying Indian Scout, who cares, automakers copy each other all the time. I’ve seen a lot of Indian Scouts on the road, so they must be selling well.

One of the new Pan America’s was run in the recent Iron Butt rally. I interacted with the rider on another forum and he was very pleased with the bike and engine.  He put over 11,000 miles on it in 11 days running for hours at 80 plus mph with not a single issue with the bike. I think that bodes well for the engine design.
Current Stable
2019 MG V7 lll Stone
2020 MG V85TT Adventure
2021 Royal Enfield Himalayan

Offline Frulk

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 65
Re: All new HD sportster:Merged topics
« Reply #89 on: July 15, 2021, 10:25:09 PM »
Disclaimer: I own two Harleys but have never drank the Kool-Aid nor am I a lifestyle adherent.  At one time I had 4 different makes of bikes in the garage but I'm currently down to 3.

I rode the Pan America about 3-4 weeks ago for about 20 minutes and was impressed how competent the bike and chassis felt and performed with that little time in the seat to evaluate it. Not going to do an in depth ride report  here.  I'll just say I couldn't believe how Harleys FIRST attempt at a large ADV bike was so solid.  The only thing I didn't like....and it REALLY was off-putting for me was the sound of the motor itself.  Not the exhaust, which was anemic for a 1250cc and can probably be resolved with an aftermarket can(s) but the ACTUAL sounds coming from the motor. Just so much whirring and clicking and tapping going on I started to fixate on it almost immediately. 

On to the SportsterS. If I had to second guess Harley's design decision on this Sportster I'd say they took the safe route because they knew they were WAY out there with the Pan America and didn't want to possibly risk bombing with two poorly received designs outside their comfort zone (the other one being the Bronx if they had chose to roll it out).

I think the water cooled 1250cc IS a winner. The specs speak for themselves.  I think the Pan America will BE a winner and sales will substantiate that over time.  As that happens we're probably going to see HD take a little more risk and bring out something styled more like the Indian FTR, Bronx etc. Personally I'd love to see a springer Bobber Sportster with this motor.  IF this SportsterS looked closer to the Indian FTR I'd already have one on order. Until something else comes along I'll keep riding around the best handling Harley ever made.


***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here
 

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here