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I like it.Strong motor, yes, and hurray for that! Might just crush Indian at their own styling and performance game. For now.Problem for me is, I don't see a Sportster in there.Harley Sportster, to me, has always meant "less is more", or accomplishing more with less. Keepin' it simple and providing a great jump off point to make of her what you will. My last new Sporty was in the late 80's and I could see a link back 30yrs to the original. Advancements after that only enhanced the experience. (Rubber mount, 5 speed, belt drive etc..) But that simple concept remained. "Here's your Motor, Frame and Tank, now go make it YOUR bike!". But here, something is lost in translation.Call it something else, just not a Sportster.
When that bike/engine hit the market, the writing was on the wall.
And what was that writing on the wall?That eventually all Harleys would be liquid cooled?Or, that the Vrod would only have a 17 model year run?
Aside from how dumb it looks, what to me gets to the core of this is the nebulous motor. It's got gobs of power, and is no doubt mucho fun from that perspective, but it lacks any real identity. Stick any big liquid cooled v2 from any of the big boys and you would still have essentially the same motorcycle. So HD has done what every one else has been doing, big deal. Perhaps it is what they felt they needed to do to stay relevant with the times, but it's too generic for my taste. I do hope the new Moto Guzzi shows more originality.
In the last few years HD has developed a new water cooled engine producing 150HP and utilized that engine in two bikes and they also have a well styled electric motorcycle. Though sales are slow on the Livewire, maybe they will increase now that they have lowered the price to $22K.
Why do you guys hate water cooled bikes so much?-AJ
For me there are several reasons starting with aesthetics. Some manufacturers are doing better than others at hiding the radiator and lines / hoses. But many are eyesores and ruin the look of the bike / engine. On fully faired bikes not as much of an issue.Second, is that it is another failure point. Rock causes leak, bike dead on side of road.3rd, more systems to maintain.4th. Where I ride I have no need for it since I avoid well traveled and congested roads.
Triumph makes a water cooled engine with minimal radiator presence on their Classic bikes with over 100HP and the weight is fairly close to a Guzzi small block.
Where are you seeing those numbers?The Bonneville T120 is liquid-cooled, 520 lb (ouch), 1200cc, and only puts out 79 hp. The Scrambler 1200 puts out 89 hp.The new Guzzi V7 850 is 480/490 lb, 853cc, and puts out 65 HP. Sure, a chunk of that HP is lost at the rear, but for an air-cooled bike, I find that pretty respectable compared to the Triumph.
https://www.cycleworld.com/story/buyers-guide/2020-triumph-thruxton-1200-r-rs/454 dry weight with 100+hp
Oh look, the new Harley-Davidson 'Scout'.
What the Scout wishes it could be. The Scout has a great engine, but that is where the comparison starts and ends. The Harley is leaps and bounds better on paper when it comes to chassis, suspension, brakes, you know, all the things that make a motorcycle actually handle instead of just look good.
My thoughts exactly. At first blush I was stunned they did such a blatant rip off.Really? Based on what criteria? Engine: you state admiration of the Scout motor, even at 21 less HPChassis: both have an aluminum chassis with a liquid cooled v-twin as a stressed member.Suspension: Scout rear 3" front 4.7" Sportster, rear 2" Front 3.6Brakes: each have a single disk front and rearfuel capacity: Scout 3.3 Sportster 3.1weight: scout 561 sporty: 502ground clearance: scout 5.7 sporty 3.6wheelbase: scout 62 sporty 60so the edge goes to HD on power to weight ratio and wheelbase. Significant. Both bikes are ridiculous IMHO with a single front disc at 500+ lbs and 100 or better HP, particularly since they're considered 'entry level' bikes by their companies ( I know a family that just put their 18 yr old daughter and 20 yr old son, and 47 yr old Mom on 2021 Sportsters, prior to taking classes. Dad rides, and the dealership was all too happy to oblige) You really lost me on the 'leaps and bounds' thing, particularly when it's such a clear design rip-off. Leaps and bounds would make sense in that case. If you're gonna steal their mousetrap, build it MUCH better. Don't steal it, change the name on it, and call it a revolutionary (pun intended). May be revolutionary to HD, but it's simply getting them in the lane Indian created, and has owned for years..... and Indian does all that, plus accomodating a pillion, stock, for $4000.00 less.
BMW can make an oil head bike that meet's EURO 5 and has over a 100HP. Triumph makes a water cooled engine with minimal radiator presence on their Classic bikes with over 100HP and the weight is fairly close to a Guzzi small block. I'm sure there are issues with those bikes in certain conditions, but they seem to be doing OK. Now if you manufacture a bike that blows fuses on their foglights and you can't fix it at the source even though it's a known problem then yeah, keep away from those complicated bikes. And forget about making bikes that have those complicated hydraulic lifters.
From Kev, "But your comparison misses:Sporty S has significantly more lean angle 5° each sideSporty S single brake is a 4-pot Brembo monoblockSporty S has not only ABS, but cornering ABS/TCSporty S has cruise control and a TFT screen that offers BT navigation and other features.Sporty S has hydraulic valves and therefore no adjustmentsThese are all pretty significant advantages to the new Sporty over the Scout. "IMO, 5% lean angle isn't going to mean much to most buyers.4 pot Brembo monoblock "should" offer better braking, tests will tell. Cornering ABS/tc is a plushydraulic valves, are convient!But those pluses aren't enough to equal a $4000 premium.