Author Topic: V85TT vs HD Pan American  (Read 4522 times)

Offline DesertPilot

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V85TT vs HD Pan American
« on: September 26, 2021, 08:21:18 PM »
We had a chance to stand a V85 TT next to a HD Pan American at STP the other day, and it was... interesting.  Here were my conclusions.

1) They're both very good bikes.

2) Both may be equally capable for most of the same things, unless you need the Pan American's extra hp for something.

3) They're both V-Twins, about the same weight, from companies with a tradition of... well.. tradition, but they aren't as similar as one might think at first glance.

4) The V85 is much simpler.  Except for the TFT display and the three more-or-less-identical riding modes (why did they even bother?), it's about as simple as you can get these days.

5) The Pan American is Not Simple.  The bike's computer most certainly seems to be a presence.  And it seems it can also throw error codes.  I imagine they'll get this sorted, but I still have trouble imagining Marlon Brando starring in 'The Wild Ap'... with Mary Murphy in Tech Support?

I imagine they'll sell zillions of Pan Americans to all the tech types here in Silicon Valley, but after 30 years at NASA and 10 years in industry doing software research, I want to get as far away from computers as possible on the weekend, so I'm happy with the V85TT  :grin:

Offline Tusayan

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2021, 04:54:55 PM »
three more-or-less-identical riding modes (why did they even bother?)

I’ve found on my 2020 V85TT that I prefer Rain Mode for normal riding.  Road Mode has a non linear throttle effect (insensitive becoming much more sensitive as it’s opened) while the Rain Mode is more linear and does not seem to lack power.  They seem to be the same otherwise, when you might expect Rain Mode to be some drastic curtailment of power.

I do notice that the 2021 version has an additional mode (Sport?) plus a custom user programmable mode.  I’d prefer no modes except to make it ride like a normal bike in a single mode.  Oddly, Rain Mode seems to be that to me.

I’m 100% with you in not needing “technology” in my entertainment when my job is in technology (no quotes).
« Last Edit: September 27, 2021, 04:57:02 PM by Tusayan »

Offline MacGlennon

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2021, 07:38:30 PM »
I have a V85tt but jumped at the chance to test ride a Pan Am when test rides were made available locally. I rode my Guzzi to the event.
Are they really the same weight? The Harley felt a lot heavier coming up off the side stand. Had a little trouble with the PA going into first- maybe needed more of a healthy prod than what I’m used to. Although they recommended staying in rain mode until we got used to the power, I immediately popped it into normal road mode (on the fly).
The Harley has power. No surprise- it would leave the V85tt for dead.
The seat is soft- you sink into it. The automatic ride height thingie works seamlessly- I never noticed it doing its thing. The suspension is great. I tried sport mode and it firmed up- you could feel it but I went back to normal mode, much better for me.
One thing I didn’t dig was the handling- it’s a freight train in a straight line but it lacked any nimbleness- it felt it was an effort to break that straight line. I know the Harley has a steering dampener but I don’t know if it’s adjustable (maybe my bike had it cranked way down?).
Brought the bike back and put it in line. For the life of me, I could not get the thing to go into neutral. After many tries, it finally did. Pointed out the clunky trans to the Harley guy, who seemed eager to hear how I liked the bike and he just walked away lol.
Hopped on my Guzzi to head home and tossed it through the same turns that I had just before taken on the PA. I can’t find a fault in the way my bike handles- easy, confident, almost telepathic. The Harley requires effort- maybe I’m just spoiled.
So that’s it- a quick 20 minute ride on the Pan Am. I liked it and damn, that power. But would I swap my V85tt for it? Nope.
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Offline DesertPilot

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2021, 10:55:04 PM »
IMHO, steering on the Moto Guzzi is brilliant.  Even I can look good on a Guzzi... and that's setting the bar pretty high :grin:

As far as Rain vs Road mode for everyday use... I never even thought to try.  I'm so used to the normal universe, where 'rain' means 'reduce power so the poor fellow doesn't hurt himself' it never occurred to me that things must surely be different in the Guzzi Universe.   I'll have to give it a go!  Thanks for the suggestion!
« Last Edit: September 27, 2021, 10:55:35 PM by DesertPilot »

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2021, 10:55:04 PM »

Offline blu guzz

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2021, 05:53:32 AM »
i got to see a PA at the Kentucky rally last weekend.  as a patriotic merrican, i want to see HD thrive. i am thrilled that they are meeting such success with this new machine.  however, speaking for myself alone, it did not flip my switch in the looks department.  nothing said "you want me". it looked heavy to my eyes and the tank looked out of proportion to the rest, very large. 
most importantly, $20,000+ bikes are in my past now.  i will ride the v85 until i can no longer get a leg over and then reassess. 
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2021, 07:17:11 AM »
I haven't ridden a V85TT yet, but I did an extensive solo test ride of the Pan America on and off road. 

Here is what I posted after the test ride:  https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=110874.0;nowap

and for those who don't like clicking on links here is the text without photos:

Today I stopped in at the local Harley Shop determined to take the new Pan America out on a test ride.  I checked in with a Salesman and he wheeled the bike out to the apron between the building and parking lot at a slight downhill angle.  Identification recorded and he asked me to wait while he goes and grabs a helmet.



I’m thinking “Oh crap, a guided ride.”  I said, “What are you going to ride?”  He points to a 2020 Blue Road Glide with air ride suspension.  “Double crap!”  Then he walks back out and says “Everyone knows you, so you can go on your own, we know you won’t take off on us.”  I was doing back flips in my head!  LOL!

He took a moment to show me the menu options, and I started out in sport mode.  Time to mount up.  With the slight downward slant and the lean it has on the side stand, it definitely took a little more effort than I was expecting and a stretch of the left leg as I pushed it upright and centered it with my right leg flat footed.  This particular bike did not have the auto height adjust feature.

Snick it into first gear and make the slow roll through the parking lot and out to the street.  No one coming, so I rolled out towards the right and as soon as I straightened out I nailed the throttle!  The raucous that emitted from the intake and exhaust let me know I was in for a spirited ride!  Before I could fully take in the sound and feel of the bike I hit the rev limiter and instead of bouncing off of it, it appeared to cut the throttle until I shifted a couple gears and then took off again.  I forgot that it had a low redline compared to other bikes of this HP range.



When you are riding the Pan America you definitely know you are not on a Honda Africa Twin.  The Pan America is Rowdy, Mean, and ready to take on anything you dare point it at!  I would say Harley was going after KTM rather than BMW when they made this bike.  The KTM adventure bikes I have ridden are precise handling machines that are definitely high spirited and love to be pushed hard.

I didn’t keep track of how many miles I rode the bike but I rode back roads, bumpy roads, interstate, and gravel.  The long travel suspension definitely keeps the wheels in contact with the ground.  I managed to comfortably ride 45 mph on the gravel, easily maintaining the speed limit on the interstate (LOL) and the bike handled bumpy roads favorably but not floaty like a ’78 Cadillac Sedan Deville.



Very slow speed riding was very easy, but I did notice some hesitation in the fueling when very slowly opening the throttle.



I stopped and got off the bike many times to take a photo and it took a few seconds to find the side stand the first time.  Where the Side Stand deploy tab is normally located is actually the deploy tab for the center stand.  You deploy the Side Stand at the Tab in front of the left foot peg.


 
When I got back to the dealership I did the slow roll through the showroom to the Pan America display location at the rear wall.  Never even thought about putting a foot down.  Came to a stop and kicked down the side stand and an employee approached and very nicely said I should have left the bike outside for liability purposes.  He really was cool about it though because he saw how well I handled the bike.



Would I buy one?  If I were into Adventure Touring I would definitely buy one over the competition.  I am no longer touring by motorcycle though.  I now haul one or two bikes with me, base camp and go out on day rides.  I am gravitating toward lighter bikes for that type of riding.  Trying to stay around 400 lbs and lighter.



This orange accessorized bike was back for first service after one week of ownership.
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elvisboy77

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2021, 10:53:02 AM »
It's apples and oranges, really.

HD came up with an "offroad" bike so that their fans could park safely in a gravel parking lot at the local bar LOL
« Last Edit: September 29, 2021, 02:13:56 AM by elvisboy77 »

Offline Ncdan

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2021, 10:56:56 AM »
It's apples and oranges, really.

HD came up with an "offroad" bike so that their fans could park safely in a gravel parking lot at the local bar.
Maybe a “smiley face” with that remark…. For us sensitive HD sympathizers would be appropriate 🤔😂👍

Just a little light hearted humor is a good thing sometimes 👍
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 10:58:45 AM by Ncdan »

Offline Kev m

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2021, 11:06:29 AM »
Maybe a “smiley face” with that remark…. For us sensitive HD sympathizers would be appropriate 🤔😂👍

Just a little light hearted humor is a good thing sometimes 👍

Humor is fine, but that shyte so beat to death it's the equivalent of a fart joke. Fine for my 7 y/o....


....ok, I still laugh at em, sometimes.  :angel:
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2021, 11:29:55 AM »
It's apples and oranges, really.

HD came up with an "offroad" bike so that their fans could park safely in a gravel parking lot at the local bar.

What does that say for the V85TT since all the moto journalists pretty much say better to keep it on the paved roads.  Should I even bother test riding it? 
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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2021, 11:31:44 AM »
Why would anyone think most of the ADV bikes are suitable for anything other than fire roads-park gravel, and such?
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Offline bad Chad

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2021, 11:38:30 AM »
“All the Moto journalists pretty much say better to keep it on paved roads.”

That simply is not an accurate statement.
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Offline Chethro

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2021, 03:17:23 PM »
I purchased the TT to be my street ride. That doesn't mean I don't occasionally take it down some difficult terrain. This ride included some very deep large sized gravel on a steep downhill, light mud, many creek crossings etc. I have a DR650 for more difficult offroad fun. I'm no single track rider, but I do seem to get myself into some challenging situations... :grin: At least if I hit a dirt road I don't turn around right away. If you put some serious knobs on the TT I feel confident it could handle anything your skill would allow. In the places I have taken it, I feel it handles quite well, but could use a lower first gear for extremely slow work. I personally wouldn't want it since I use it for the street, but I see where it could be a little better in that regard. Even in street mode with the traction control I have no problem handling some slippery situations from time to time offroad. 6.7" of suspension only takes you so far. I did this same ride on the DR a week later and went 3 times the speed with the same confidence level. You can take any bike down gravel roads. You may just beat the bike and yourself up more depending on the speed you go. I have taken my old Carbon Dark down some gravel roads, but man was I going slow.









« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 03:30:45 PM by Chethro »
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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2021, 03:55:43 PM »
“All the Moto journalists pretty much say better to keep it on paved roads.”

That simply is not an accurate statement.

Maybe not the paved part, but definitely roads.
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Offline DesertPilot

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2021, 08:10:43 PM »
Me take on ADV bikes is that these aren't 'off-road bikes', they're 'any road bikes'.  Which is absolutely perfect for the roads -- or 'road-like objects', as the case may be -- that I get a chance to ride.

Pretty much every ADV bike is good for that sort of thing, but low center of gravity is nice if you have to stop on some steep heavily-rutted surface.  In the rain.  With a volcano erupting nearby.  Which they way things have been going around here the past two years doesn't seem entirely out of the question  :grin:

elvisboy77

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2021, 02:13:29 AM »
What does that say for the V85TT since all the moto journalists pretty much say better to keep it on the paved roads.  Should I even bother test riding it?

It is too big to be a "dirt bike" IMO.  As others have said, gravel and dirt roads are ok.  But then you have Nick Adams who rides logging roads on an old Eldorado and a Suzuki Cavalcade.

I got the V85tt because it was relatively lightweight, had good ergonomics for me and was very comfortable on long trips.  It had nothing to do with off road travel.

Offline steven c

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2021, 06:49:25 AM »
 When Buell came out with the Ulysses they marketed it as  an "All Road Bike" which is how I use mine. Which really is what most ADV bikes are.
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Offline egschade

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2021, 06:58:53 AM »
Agree with the 'all road' designation which is why I went with the V85TT. Pretty much a perfect all-around bike for me.

As for the original topic, I could certainly live with a Pan America if someone handed me the key (fob) but the level of technology is a double edged sword. Lots of cool features but I would worry about tech glitches and failures especially in a first year model. And while the V85TT isn't a classic beauty, I prefer it's looks over the PA. In sum, I'm quite happy with what I have and wouldn't trade even if the $$ was equal.
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Offline twodogs

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2021, 07:20:07 AM »
Well I finally went down to the local HD shop to see if they had a pa so I could see one in person and have to admit that I was not very impressed, I sat on it and checked out the lowering gizzmo which was a nice feature but to me the fit and finish with all the buttons and how it felt while sitting on it just didn't do it for me, I kindly turned down the offer to ride it which I'm sure would of been nice but for over 24k large I think I'll wait. :boozing:
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Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2021, 07:24:58 AM »
It's apples and oranges, really.

HD came up with an "offroad" bike so that their fans could park safely in a gravel parking lot at the local bar LOL

I know that years ago, a large number of 'cruiser' riders of a certain brand refused to go to the restaurant at TWO, just because the parking lot had gravel in it.  :huh:
You know, they can't drag their feet and use the rear brake pedal at the same time.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2021, 09:07:46 AM by Wayne Orwig »
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Offline Kev m

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2021, 07:36:13 AM »

Honestly ADV bikes are just not my bag. I don't ride gravel/fire roads (though if I did I'd have a plethora around here, it's just that it's almost all DEEP sand and these are NOT the tools for that).

I get why they make awesome road bikes, but those features make them ugly and less comfortable to me.

I get why someone would want the Guzzi over the PA just like I typically want the Guzzi over the _______________ <---fill in the blank with a metric brand that makes more power, is faster etc.

I think the technology complaints is a cop-out. I've had first year bikes from Harley that were perfect electronically. They put their bikes through tests Guzzi doesn't match with even their unofficial customer beta testing program. That said, I also understand wanting it a bit more simple.

I guess I'm saying if push came to shove I'd buy the Guzzi------- uhhh well a V7 (850) or maybe a V1000..... hmmmmmmmm
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Offline Huzo

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2021, 08:24:45 AM »
You know, they can't drag their feet and use the rear brake pedal and the same time.
They sound like a classy bunch.
Over here they don’t drag their feet
They drag their knuckles...

Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2021, 08:28:13 AM »
I know that years ago, a large number of 'cruiser' riders of a certain brand refused to go to the restaurant at TWO, just because the parking lot had gravel in it.  :huh:
You know, they can't drag their feet and use the rear brake pedal and the same time.

Doesn't Moto Guzzi make cruisers as well?  So, more like a cruiser rider thing than a Harley thing.  I remember test riding a Vulcan Nomad and came back and told the dealer that his detailer either got tire shine on the front rotors or the brakes need work.  He remarked, "You used the front brake?".  LOL!

I wasn't too happy with TWO when it was gravel while riding my Ninja.  That lime rock dust gets into every crack and crevice and you have to remove all the fairing pieces to give the bike a good cleaning. 

Then when I got my Vulcan Voyager with metal fenders listening to all the little rocks bouncing off the inside of the fenders was definitely not music to my ears.

Now I have a 400 foot gravel driveway and only wash my bikes that deep once a year.  Time changes us all. 
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Offline Moparnut72

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2021, 09:15:44 AM »
Yes, Guzzi made cruisers, unfortunately no more.



They make Harley owners jealous. Faster and handle a lot better. When I ride with my Harley buddies, bystanders always come over to talk to me and ignore them.   :thumb:
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Offline Kev m

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2021, 09:30:03 AM »
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Offline Alfetta

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2021, 11:18:56 AM »
I have had my V7 on many non paved roads. from gravel roads to mild single track (nothing hard enduro yet). and it takes it just fine. I think you can take just about any bike you want off road. SO I don't get this adventure dual sport thing much at all.  If you are wanting a bike that can legally get you to the nasty tracks, you should be looking at a WR450F (or similar). If you want a mile munching bike that can get off road, well pick any bike you like, then just limit the off road "trail type" to your riding level..

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Offline twowheeladdict

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2021, 11:23:25 AM »
Yes, Guzzi made cruisers, unfortunately no more.



They make Harley owners jealous. Faster and handle a lot better. When I ride with my Harley buddies, bystanders always come over to talk to me and ignore them.   :thumb:
kk

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Offline John Croucher

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2021, 11:39:10 AM »
Comparing a Buell Blast or other  Buell model would be a much better comparison.  The H.D. is a huge motorcycle compared to the Guzzi.  I did ride the V85.  It is not a large bike in comparison to the H.D. which I saw parked next to My bike and the Guzzi's at the Rally. 

The H.D. is much to big for me and I would only feel safe and comfortable riding on the interstate highways.  Off road would be extremely dangers for my skinny ass.  I would have to have back up crew to lift the bike if it went down.


Offline Moparnut72

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2021, 11:47:13 AM »
I’ve never met a Harley owner jealous of another brand.
Yeah, poor choice of words.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: V85TT vs HD Pan American
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2021, 12:07:46 PM »
Comparing a Buell Blast or other  Buell model would be a much better comparison.  The H.D. is a huge motorcycle compared to the Guzzi.  I did ride the V85.  It is not a large bike in comparison to the H.D. which I saw parked next to My bike and the Guzzi's at the Rally. 

The H.D. is much to big for me and I would only feel safe and comfortable riding on the interstate highways.  Off road would be extremely dangers for my skinny ass.  I would have to have back up crew to lift the bike if it went down.

Yet it's only ~50# heavier.... not saying I want to pick either up off-road. But then again around here off-road really means an 250# bike.
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