Author Topic: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer  (Read 19425 times)

Offline pauldaytona

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2015, 06:16:04 AM »
Well autotune should work at any rpm, as long as you have a target AFR value. Gears have nothing to do with it. If you rew it in nutral, it will work, not that that is usefull. Set target values, and go for a drive. 
Paul

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Offline sign216

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2015, 10:44:37 AM »

how do I check throttle body balance and mechanical idle speed adjustment ?


I sent you a private mssg about the throttle body balance, but forgot to mention the mechanical idle speed adjust.  Don't even try.  Unlike many bikes, mainly older ones, there is no provision for a mechanical idle adjust (i.e. no set screws, etc).  Many of the throttle body screws you see are set by the factory (esp. one known as the "sacred screw") and messing with them will lead you down a dark road.

That's my view, but I'm open ideas.  I've never even heard of a modern Guzzi 750 with such low idle.  I'm curious now.  Probably an AutoTune issue.  I'm unfamiliar with that unit.
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Offline Xlratr

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Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2015, 01:38:40 PM »
Well autotune should work at any rpm, as long as you have a target AFR value. Gears have nothing to do with it. If you rew it in nutral, it will work, not that that is usefull. Set target values, and go for a drive.

Never having even seen an actual PCV I'm just guessing here, but from what I've read about the configuration possibilities, you have the choice to set the target AFR for different throttle/RPM combinations either for each gear individually, or for all gears. Is it possible that there's some kind of box in the settings menu that requires you to say "apply target AFR to all gears". ? Could it be that the Target AFRs the OP has keyed in only apply to neutral and the AT doesn't see any value otherwise?
Just a wild guess!


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Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2015, 05:39:38 PM »
how do I check throttle body balance and mechanical idle speed adjustment ?
Thanks for the PM to the OP sign216.  OP, you might want to see if you can get a motorcycle shop to perform these adjustments if you lack the tools or knowledge. I can't go into the details of the process because it is involved.

Quote from: jcb72
I put 13.2 in the 0 row at 1000 RPM and after about 30 seconds the green autotune light came on in the software I then started to see the AFR climbing and trying to reach the 13.2 value, after which I checked the trim table and there was a -13 in the cell.  so the Autotune module appears to be working, it just will not work for any cells where I have to engage the gears :(
Yes, it is apparent that the Autotune is functioning as designed and reading the O2 sensor.  If the higher RPM ranges are not causing a change to the trim table, it seems to me to still be pointing to the Lambda setting in the ECU.  But, you are emphatic that this has been changed so that the OEM ECU ignores the O2 sensor below 40%.  Very odd.  Is there value in confirming this setting?

Quote from: jcb72
When I spoke to a dynotec tech he advised "Auto tune is not functioning at 0% throttle. Auto tune requires a flow of exhaust going past the oxygen sensors"
What a next-to-useless advice.  There is a flow of exhaust across the O2 sensor given its position in the crossover tube (albeit low velocity).
- Robert

2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2015, 05:39:38 PM »

Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2015, 05:51:08 PM »
Never having even seen an actual PCV I'm just guessing here, but from what I've read about the configuration possibilities, you have the choice to set the target AFR for different throttle/RPM combinations either for each gear individually, or for all gears. Is it possible that there's some kind of box in the settings menu that requires you to say "apply target AFR to all gears". ? Could it be that the Target AFRs the OP has keyed in only apply to neutral and the AT doesn't see any value otherwise?
Just a wild guess!
There is no config option in the Autotune to adjust the trim table values based on AFR target settings and gearing.  The PC-V has an ability to set gear shift points, which you manually program into the unit.  These shift points work in conjunction with another Dynojet product called Quickshifter.  Quickshifter understands from your programming when the optimal shift RPM has been reached (by data feed from the PC-V) and unloads the transmission for the rider to perform a clutchless shift.

The Autotune is not aware of gearing, it is only aware of engine RPM (via RPM data input from the PC-V) and throttle opening (via TPS).  It reads a wide band O2 sensor for feedback that causes minor adjustments to be made to the primary fuel table based on a pre-programmed target AFR settings.  The PC-V is modifying the ECU injector timing to come up with the optimal injector open time based on AFR targets in the Autotune unit. The OP's problem seems to be that the Autotune is not adjusting PC-V fuel table values in the range below 40% throttle opening.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 05:56:49 PM by rbm »
- Robert

2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2015, 08:54:23 PM »
Yes, it is apparent that the Autotune is functioning as designed and reading the O2 sensor.  If the higher RPM ranges are not causing a change to the trim table, it seems to me to still be pointing to the Lambda setting in the ECU.  But, you are emphatic that this has been changed so that the OEM ECU ignores the O2 sensor below 40%.  Very odd.  Is there value in confirming this setting?

Do you mean confirming that the O2 sensor has been disabled using guzzidiag and TunnerPro ? I can verify that the Tunnerpro map has the Lambda check box empty and that its been loaded on to the V7, is there a way I can tell within Guzzidiag software whilst the bike is running ?

The only adjustments that Ive done via guzzidiag and tunnerpro is disable Lambda, reset TPS, recommendations from Pauldaytona in changing the values in the  01-Fuel Map , which entered 0 in a range off cells in the lower rev ranges (help stop pop on decel).

Offline Xlratr

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2015, 12:53:55 AM »
There is no config option in the Autotune to adjust the trim table values based on AFR target settings and gearing.  The PC-V has an ability to set gear shift points, which you manually program into the unit.  These shift points work in conjunction with another Dynojet product called Quickshifter.  Quickshifter understands from your programming when the optimal shift RPM has been reached (by data feed from the PC-V) and unloads the transmission for the rider to perform a clutchless shift.

The Autotune is not aware of gearing, it is only aware of engine RPM (via RPM data input from the PC-V) and throttle opening (via TPS).  It reads a wide band O2 sensor for feedback that causes minor adjustments to be made to the primary fuel table based on a pre-programmed target AFR settings.  The PC-V is modifying the ECU injector timing to come up with the optimal injector open time based on AFR targets in the Autotune unit. The OP's problem seems to be that the Autotune is not adjusting PC-V fuel table values in the range below 40% throttle opening.

The AT is not aware of gearing, but the PCV can be. On the PC website it says "Gear input (allows for map adjustment based on gear and speed)",: but that would require a map per gear. As I say I'm just guessing, but if the settings are somehow messed up and the PC/AT is looking for a map per gear to adjust, and that map isn't there, then it won't be able to make any adjustments.


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Offline pauldaytona

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2015, 03:07:25 AM »
well what is the problem anyway, set target afr in all field, no matter what, can be adjusted afterwards, and go for a drive,  20 miles. And tell what it says
Paul

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Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2015, 03:48:08 PM »
Paul ive done this already i.e ive entered a value of 13.4 in all the cells and gone for a number of rides now and there is no changes registering in the trim, it still reads 0 in all fields ?.

Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2015, 06:19:07 PM »
Do you mean confirming that the O2 sensor has been disabled using guzzidiag and TunnerPro ? I can verify that the Tunnerpro map has the Lambda check box empty and that its been loaded on to the V7, is there a way I can tell within Guzzidiag software whilst the bike is running ?
That's what I meant.  AFAIK, Tunerpro is used to turn off Lambda.  There is no feature of Guzzidiag that provides that capability.   I know Guzzidiag can display Lambda but I can't say whether that confirms it being turned off or no.

I'm out of ideas.  You have done all that I have, yet you're experiencing this problem.  Don't know what else to suggest.
- Robert

2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

Offline pauldaytona

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2015, 03:08:51 AM »
Paul ive done this already i.e ive entered a value of 13.4 in all the cells and gone for a number of rides now and there is no changes registering in the trim, it still reads 0 in all fields ?.

well, i've never seen such a device, call dynojet support. It does show afr values? It's not that you have to enable the autotune somewhere?
Paul

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Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2015, 07:00:44 AM »
JCB72,

Just thought of something.  Have you tried the verification test on the O2 sensor as described in the install manual?

Your sensor might not be feeding information back to the Autotune.  This test will confirm operation of the sensor.

Also, you have installed the AT-200 model of Autotune, right?
- Robert

2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2015, 11:27:46 PM »
I removed the O2 sensor and run the test and it only blinks once indicating that the sensor is functioning correctly, its gets bloody hot though I thought it would switch off when the engine is off but this must not be the case as I have had the bike off for the last couple of days and its still roasting.

I was worried about the heat but found a post on a yamaha forum stating that its  normal.

and yes its the AT-200
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 12:30:29 AM by jcb72 »

Offline Xlratr

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2015, 02:11:02 AM »
They do get hot, but that should only happen when the ignition is on. If your sensor is hot after days of having the bike standing, then you've got it wired up wrongly. The power supply for heating must only be active with ignition on. Sounds like you have yours connected straight to the battery.


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Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2015, 02:12:54 AM »
Nope its connected to the back light, the ground is connected to the negative of the battery as recommended.

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2015, 02:18:48 AM »
Damn  :-[  just noticed something that may be causing the autotune from working and probably the PCV in general.

"Calibrate TPS"  is screwed I calibrated and dont think I was meant to have a fly-by-wire throttle. Ive gone in and it was wrong and now throttle shows 100% at idle.

Any one got any idea's how to fix this without a dyno minimum voltage is set to 0.004 and max is 0.006 and now its stuck even after a reset.

Offline Xlratr

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2015, 02:52:58 AM »
Nope its connected to the back light, the ground is connected to the negative of the battery as recommended.

Imagine how long your battery will last if it's heating the sensor all the time! It should not be hot if the bike has been standing for days with the ignition off. Something is wired wrongly.


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Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2015, 03:33:58 AM »
I got it wrong the o2 sensor shuts off, it just heats up very very quickly when the ignition is on.

RBM I reset the TPS and seems I was not supposed to do that oops.

I cant remember what the default one was set to is it possible that you could stick a PC on your PCV and check whats yours MIN and MAX is set to.

cheers

Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2015, 07:02:45 AM »
jcb,

It's not possible at the moment because the bike is asleep for the winter.  Battery's taken out, fuel tank is off and everything is stuffed in the back of the garage.  Sorry.

I do have some screenshots of Guzzidiag with throttle voltages though that might help.
Values of Throttle and Corrected Throttle after a TPS reset when throttle fully open
Values of Throttle and Corrected Throttle after a TPS reset when throttle is returned to rest position

There is a throttle calibration procedure for the PC-V.  Are you saying that procedure is producing invalid settings on the PC-V?
- Robert

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1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2015, 05:50:57 PM »
Yes invalid readings, and when I tried to de a reset etc following the guide on youtube the TPS now shows 100% at closed throttle ?.
And no matter what I do I cant fix this,  I then found a some information that you are not meant to set this on fly-by-wire throttles as it has to be dyno.


Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2015, 06:02:22 PM »
Then, I'd say your have a problem with the connection to the TPS and I think you have to investigate your wiring.  I remember on my V7 that the throttle calibration screen shows the TPS voltage varying as the throttle is twisted.  If you're showing 100% that means the TPS voltage is reading 4.9V at the TPS tap.  IIRC, there is one Brown/Yellow, one Brown/White and one Grey wire in the bundle coming from the TPS.  I first tapped into the one Brown/White by mistake and my PC-V didn't function properly; it seemed to be the same colour as the other brown wire.  I then tapped into the Brown/Yellow and it worked.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 06:13:21 PM by rbm »
- Robert

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1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2015, 06:58:25 PM »
Ive just gone in through Guzzidiag and checked my min max tps, they are a little different to yours which is suprising, my min is set to 0.510 and when I open the throttle to full it jumps to 4.194.

So Ive entered these values and they have set the throttle % back to 0 at idle where it should be, the only thing that is strange now is that when the bike is running and software connected when I turn the throttle it still reads 0 %, should it not change here ? this is why I think its not engaging the autotune as its always set to 0% throttle.

I now think the issue is not with the autotune device but with the PCV itself, from watching youtube video's when opening the throttle the throttle indicator on the software should show an increase in value as you twist the value this I'm not seeing.
I just checked the TPS splice to ensure I correctly connected the PCV into the TPS and when I removed it I checked the calibration and the voltage began to climb all the way to the maximum value (throttle was closed).
I then connected it backup again and it was back to showing 0% very strange.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 07:24:25 PM by jcb72 »

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2015, 07:28:17 PM »
I think you are right it must be something to do with the tap, thing is when I put in a new plug I had to cut fresh wires, so all the colours are different so I caannot remember what wire goes where lol, trial and error I think.

Getting there.

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2015, 07:33:34 PM »
I just checked and I'm tapped in to the Grey wire per the instructions, I'll give it a try and tap into the brown/yellow and see what happens.

cheers

Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2015, 07:38:55 PM »
Ive just gone in through Guzzidiag and checked my min max tps, they are a little different to yours which is suprising, my min is set to 0.510 and when I open the throttle to full it jumps to 4.194.
A TPS reset from within Guzzidiag at this point in time will recalibrate the TPS closed position within the ECU.  In other words, it will recalibrate the ECU's understanding of the voltage corresponding to closed position of the TPS.  This should be around 4.7° and the TPS should emit about 0.4V.  You'll notice that the best I could achieve on my V7 was 0.451V and 6.7°.  Oh well.

Quote
So Ive entered these values and they have set the throttle % back to 0 at idle where it should be .....
So, I guess you're doing this value entry from within the TPS Calibration dialog of the PC-V software (DEVICE TOOLS - CALIBRATE  -  TPS CALIBRATION).  Right?  My recollection was that I started the calibration in PC-V, then twisted the throttle through its full range and then stopped calibration.  The PC-V read the lowest and highest voltages achieved and set the idle / WOT accordingly.

Quote
..... the only thing that is strange now is that when the bike is running and software connected when I turn the throttle it still reads 0 %, should it not change here ? this is why I think its not engaging the autotune as its always set to 0% throttle.
So, now I believe you are viewing the main display of PC-V and viewing the realtime display on the far right side. Right?  And you're expecting the %throttle to vary in realtime in sympathy with the way you're twisting the throttle.  Right?  I believe you are corect; the realtime display on the right should display the instantaneous throttle % open as you twist the throttle.  If it does not do this, then the PC-V is not receiving TPS changes.  This is the only way that the PC-V (and Autotune) can understand where the throttle is positioned.

I just want to get my bearings because all the pronouns in the sentence is confusing me.
- Robert

2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2015, 08:06:39 PM »
lol my apologies, i am one of those unfortunates that write with an accent "scottish" but yes RBM you are correct, in all your translations.

I have just followed your advice and connected the yellow/brown wire as the splice tap into the TPS and the throttle now increases in the PCV software when I open the throttle, I'm going to take it out for a ride and see what happens but I have a strong feeling that this could be it :).

I'll update when I get back.


 

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2015, 10:03:12 PM »
Fixed  ;D

RBM it was the splice in to the TPS that was incorrect, I took the bike out and noticed a difference right away in that all popping on decel stopped. and the bike ran a lot smoother.

I just got back and hooked the laptop up to PCV  checked the trims and there it was finally "variations"  I wont except any trims for at least another weeks riding and see what happens.

Thanks everyone for your contributions on getting PCV and Auto tune working, RBM your a legend.

Next mod is a pair of PipeMaster Mufflers from Brisbane, before I get stopped as the ones I have sound like Rolls Royce Jet Engine lol.

Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2015, 10:06:34 PM »
JCB,

You're welcome.  I'm glad that your problems are all fixed and the PC-V/Autotune is working as expected.  Happy riding.
- Robert

2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

 

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