Author Topic: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…  (Read 1272 times)

Offline Beowulf

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V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« on: February 27, 2024, 12:26:40 PM »
So I was adjusting my valves today and as I was feeling for the piston coming up it snapped the plastic pen end I was using. Idiotic i know……

Deep breath….I have approximately a 1/4 inch of plastic in the right cylinder and no way to get it out. Should I disassemble the head to get it out? Will it do any harm? Thanks in advance for helping this idiot.

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2024, 12:34:11 PM »
This is why I use a straw—I once used a chopstick and snapped the tip off. I initially ran the bike for a few cycles, thinking the chopstick tip would shoot out the exhaust, but I got paranoid enough and just decided to pop the head off. Mind you—that was wood. Don’t know if plastic would be worse, but if it stuck around long enough and heated up? Eww.

If you want to avoid pulling the cylinder head off, perhaps you could fish it out through the exhaust port?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2024, 12:49:21 PM by Dirk_S »
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Online Dave Swanson

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2024, 12:35:52 PM »
pull the plugs, and would be best to also remove the header on that side.  Then spin the starter.  If you get lucky it will pop out one of the 2 open holes.   

It might pop out the exhaust port easier because of the pressure release when the exhaust valve opens, so I would probably leave the plug in on that side.  No plug lead attached of course. 
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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2024, 12:42:17 PM »
If you are going to use this method, one hand to turn the engine, one to keep the probe moving around to keep it from getting caught. Safety first!!!!!!!
I actually usually use a long thin screwdriver for this, believe it or not. Keeps me attentive!

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2024, 12:42:17 PM »

Offline Rower30

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2024, 12:55:37 PM »
pull the plugs, and would be best to also remove the header on that side.  Then spin the starter.  If you get lucky it will pop out one of the 2 open holes.   

It might pop out the exhaust port easier because of the pressure release when the exhaust valve opens, so I would probably leave the plug in on that side.  No plug lead attached of course.

Don't forget to ground the plug lead, some ignition systems frown on an open plug lead. Better to be safe and assume yours is one. Use an old plug lying around and ground it to the bike.
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2024, 01:12:38 PM »
No need to ground the plug. Turned over fine. No sign of the broken piece. I’m guessing it passed through the exhaust already. Seems to turn over fine. Gina complete the valve check and go from there. I held the pen in my hand to prevent this but it did. I tried doing this gingerly but here I am.

I’m glad it’s a small plastic piece but wish it hadn’t occurred. There’s no way it’s still in there now.

Offline Beowulf

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2024, 01:13:40 PM »
Any more thoughts I’ll hear them. Thanks

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2024, 02:43:54 PM »
Don't feel bad. Have done it on the T-3. Did pull the head but that is quite quick and simple on a T-3.
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2024, 02:53:52 PM »
Don't feel bad. Have done it on the T-3. Did pull the head but that is quite quick and simple on a T-3.
GliderJohn

Appreciate it. Checked the valves. All were in spec and I didn’t end up needing to adjust them at all. I put it back together including the fuel tank I taken off to make sure the side covers cleared the engine guards.

Started it and ran for several minutes. No codes out noises or weird behavior. Going for a ride in a bit see and see what happens…. Feeling stupid but hopeful. I did several checks in the cylinder including blowing it out before turning it over with the starter.

Thanks for the tips. I let you know if I screwed up really bad.

Offline John A

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2024, 07:26:48 PM »
Take a straw and put some glue from a sticky trap on the end and fish it out.
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Offline jrt

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2024, 07:42:11 PM »
pull the plugs, and would be best to also remove the header on that side.  Then spin the starter.  If you get lucky it will pop out one of the 2 open holes.   

It might pop out the exhaust port easier because of the pressure release when the exhaust valve opens, so I would probably leave the plug in on that side.  No plug lead attached of course.

How much squish is there in the head?  I'd be worried about smashing the pen between piston and head/valves, then having 50 small pieces to pull out, rather than one big piece. 
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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2024, 07:50:24 PM »
I would have been most concerned that a piece would have lodged on the valve seat and put a bending force on the stem as it was closing.
Anyway, if it’s run as long as it now has post disaster, the bit/s must have shredded, melted or otherwise disintegrated.
Since you have compression on both sides, nothing can be awry… :thumb:

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2024, 08:33:08 PM »
I'd get a vacuum cleaner and place it as flat as possible on the spark plug hole (obviously with the plug out) and see if it sucks anything out....
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Offline Beowulf

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2024, 09:22:00 PM »
I would have been most concerned that a piece would have lodged on the valve seat and put a bending force on the stem as it was closing.
Anyway, if it’s run as long as it now has post disaster, the bit/s must have shredded, melted or otherwise disintegrated.
Since you have compression on both sides, nothing can be awry… :thumb:

Appreciate the tips. I attempted several methods to extricate the piece. I buttoned everything up and went for a 15 mile ride with no issues. I think that piece Is long gone. No unusual noises, lights or anything sinister.  Thank you everyone for the advice
« Last Edit: February 27, 2024, 09:29:32 PM by Beowulf »

Offline azccj

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2024, 09:31:52 PM »
When I did the same thing but with a pencil, I blew compressed air into the spark plug hole. The broken off pencil shot out of the spark plug hole after a minute or so.
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Offline Willy59

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2024, 04:04:42 AM »
In order to inspect the cilinder & valves,you can use an "small"endoscope (Ali express +/- 20 USD)
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Offline 1wild1

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2024, 08:45:08 PM »
I turn the motor till the exhaust valve is open and adjust the intake valve, then open the intake and adjust the exhaust. First  time I tried the tdc method the screwdriver stuck on me, probable same way it broke the pen. Decided I'd do it the other way.

Offline John A

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2024, 09:10:30 PM »
No need to ground the plug. Turned over fine. No sign of the broken piece. I’m guessing it passed through the exhaust already. Seems to turn over fine. Gina complete the valve check and go from there. I held the pen in my hand to prevent this but it did. I tried doing this gingerly but here I am.

I’m glad it’s a small plastic piece but wish it hadn’t occurred. There’s no way it’s still in there now.










The reason to ground the plug is because if there is no place for the electricity to go, it can damage the ecu. You got lucky.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2024, 09:46:32 AM by John A »
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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2024, 02:58:10 AM »
Ok.
The bike has run fine for an extended period, so there is no ongoing concern. The endoscope idea would have been great had you attempted to check for fragments pre ride, but looks like you have dodged disaster.
You’re not the first and certainly won’t be the last.

Offline Vagrant

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2024, 07:33:33 AM »
I turn the motor till the exhaust valve is open and adjust the intake valve, then open the intake and adjust the exhaust. First  time I tried the tdc method the screwdriver stuck on me, probable same way it broke the pen. Decided I'd do it the other way.

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Offline 1wild1

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2024, 07:26:19 AM »
That’s going to be ok if you have concentric base circles on your cams, if not, you will meet trouble using that method.
What is so damn hard about just getting the damn thing to TDC on the compression stroke ?

Offline 1wild1

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2024, 11:07:28 AM »
That’s going to be ok if you have concentric base circles on your cams, if not, you will meet trouble using that method.
What is so damn hard about just getting the damn thing to TDC on the compression stroke ?

You are literally in a thread about troubles with finding TDC and multiple people claiming to have done similar things. Just throwing it out there that there are other methods, even demonstrated by an official Moto Guzzi Dealer/mechanic.  Are there actually cams with non-concentric base circles.  I figure that would be a problem? adding tension to a valve when it's supposed to be closed would lead to burnt valves just like a valve that is to tightly adjusted. IDK , I'm just passing along info. 

Offline Beowulf

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2024, 12:02:10 PM »
Well I must admit I didn’t expect to check back and find this thread still going. I’ve learned a few things I really didn’t know.

I’ll keep in mind the reason to ground out the system in future and to use a straw. Everything is running really well and no issues.

Bike passed 2500 miles this week. Thanks to all for your advice.

I really love the v85. It’s nice how solid it feels on the road and turning. Stay safe

Offline dguzzi

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2024, 05:16:34 PM »
   Thank you for asking the question, and thank everyone for being humble enough to let Beowolf know he is not a lone dummy!
  I learned to judge by looking at the valves to see when they are fully closed...
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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2024, 01:45:25 AM »
I broke my 20-year-old trusted TDC dowel in the stornello during its first valve adjust (600 miles). I wasn't prepared for how quickly the piston would come up and it caught the dowel and snapped off about 1/2-in inside the chamber. After checking with a borescope I could see the pieces.

I contemplated pulling the head off but after blowing air into the spark plug hole and getting a few small pieces out, I ended up putting a small  cone nozzle on my Shop-Vac, jamming it down over the spark plug hole and cracked the starter a few times. That was 6 years and 10,000 miles ago with no problems.

The problem was I dropped the dowel into the hole too early. Now what I do is watch for the valve open and close and crank it a bit more so the piston comes up. I also found that a long one quarter inch extension slides perfectly into the spark plug hole. It's thick enough so it doesn't get cocked and stuck on the threads when the piston comes up.

I think some of the difference on the small block was the motor was so new. It was also the first time I was using the rear tire with the bike in 6th gear to spend the motor rather than the bolt on the front of the crankshaft from the big blocks.

I had done dozens of adjustments on my Griso and Norge without issue, but the Stornello got me.
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Offline kballowe

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Re: V85 valve adjustment gone wrong…
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2024, 05:17:41 AM »
I witnessed 1st startup on an 80 cu in Harley, after a rebuild.

They had accidentally left a red shop towel in the front cylinder.

It spit it out the exhaust, in shreds.  That bike is still running, ten years later.


 


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