Author Topic: Dr. John RIP  (Read 2028 times)

Offline testa_di_formaggio

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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2024, 08:31:21 PM »
The multiple obit links out there that I looked this weekend past, all appear basically the same. It's murderous to try and get through the pop up ads. No mention of family? Education? Date of birth? Where in Pennsylvania, note the writer had to say "Pennsylvania" more than once, and note that it is in the USA. Yeah, we know it's Pennsylvania. 77 years old how many times?  With duplicity and a writing style that looks, well, "hokie". Foreign. I met him at Lawton's Cycle outside of Milwaukee, on a Tuesday after the Elkhart Lake races, I'd guess in '86 or '87. I was there looking for parts for my T3. He was working on the bike in the Lawton brother's shop, and asked if I could give him a hand. He was finishing up, and when we were done, I helped him load up the bike and his tools and other gear. In what was a somewhat dated Chevy van. He wanted to go out and look at my bike. He was very likable and chatty, and our conversation wasn't strictly limited to Moto Guzzi. He seemed to me to be a man of many other facets and experiences. Obits placed by funeral homes and such don't read like these, with information always mentioned in other obits, non existent. Maybe not AI, but absolutely suspect, made up like click bait. 

TdF   

Offline Moparnut72

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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2024, 09:55:45 PM »
I agree. When I started reading all the different ones, they weren't exactly quite the same but very similar in the language used. Seemed very strange.
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Offline sdcr

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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2024, 06:10:47 AM »
Here is the actual obituary from Donohue Funeral Home.

https://www.donohuefuneralhome.com/obituaries/john-wittner
John
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Offline rocker59

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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2024, 07:47:18 AM »
Here is the actual obituary from Donohue Funeral Home.

https://www.donohuefuneralhome.com/obituaries/john-wittner

Thanks.  I'm posting the text from the link:


John A. Wittner

A legendary innovator for Moto Guzzi and driving force in the motorcycle community, Dr. John A. Wittner, DMD, age 78, of West Chester, PA, passed away on February 15, 2024. He was the son of Howard Wittner and Victoria (Shenker) Wittner, and brother to Ken Wittner, who pre-deceased him. “Dr. John,” as known to friends, colleagues, patients, and members of the motorcycle community, was intensely dedicated to his craft, whether it was complex dentistry without pain — or mechanical innovation and next-level mastery in motorcycle engineering.

Studying mechanical engineering at Lehigh University (always with a love of fixing things), he applied his inherent talent and skills to help improve human performance, and graduated from University of Pennsylvania Dental School, as DMD, and was partner to Dr. Bill Deal, in Deal-Wittner Dental Health Group for many years. But for decades, he kept on building engines for motorcycle racing, channeling the magic into Moto Guzzis that won and won and won.

One day, he reached a turning point while working on a friend and patient in the dental chair – who encouraged him to take motorcycle racing from the local to the big time. And that’s how the legendary Dr. John’s Team Moto Guzzi was launched and went from an experienced, dominant group of regional racers to winning and dominating the 1984 AMA National Endurance Racing Championship at the Daytona Firecracker 400. And went on to design and engineer unique marques for Moto Guzzi in Italy, leaving an historic legacy for motorcycle racing.

Dr. John was a Vietnam veteran, loyal friend, and independent individual who always rose to a challenge and who’d rather be burning rubber than anything else.

Services and Interment are Private.
Michael T.
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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2024, 07:47:18 AM »

Offline rocker59

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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2024, 07:48:46 AM »
The multiple obit links out there that I looked this weekend past, all appear basically the same. It's murderous to try and get through the pop up ads. No mention of family? Education? Date of birth? Where in Pennsylvania, note the writer had to say "Pennsylvania" more than once, and note that it is in the USA. Yeah, we know it's Pennsylvania. 77 years old how many times?  With duplicity and a writing style that looks, well, "hokie". Foreign. I met him at Lawton's Cycle outside of Milwaukee, on a Tuesday after the Elkhart Lake races, I'd guess in '86 or '87. I was there looking for parts for my T3. He was working on the bike in the Lawton brother's shop, and asked if I could give him a hand. He was finishing up, and when we were done, I helped him load up the bike and his tools and other gear. In what was a somewhat dated Chevy van. He wanted to go out and look at my bike. He was very likable and chatty, and our conversation wasn't strictly limited to Moto Guzzi. He seemed to me to be a man of many other facets and experiences. Obits placed by funeral homes and such don't read like these, with information always mentioned in other obits, non existent. Maybe not AI, but absolutely suspect, made up like click bait. 

TdF   

AI is some insidious shyte, isn't it?
Michael T.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2024, 08:31:35 AM »
Studying mechanical engineering at Lehigh University (always with a love of fixing things),

Aw hell, I didn't know he was a fellow Lehigh grad....

@jas67 he was one of us.
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Offline testa_di_formaggio

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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2024, 12:24:15 PM »
Ah yes. That link is more like it. Thanks folks, for getting the real information out.

Yes, insidious. Spooky.

TdF

Offline dxhall

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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2024, 08:05:13 AM »
« Last Edit: February 23, 2024, 09:19:28 AM by dxhall »

Offline lazlokovacs

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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2024, 08:10:39 PM »
Just curious, what did you notice that makes you believe that?

I was certain it was AI written by the end of the first paragraph. Hard to analyse why precisely.

Some pointers

It's highly repetitive

Many sentences, although long, actually convey no factual information

If you were to replace the main nouns, in this case John Wittner, Moto Guzzi motorcycles and Pennsylvania with two other names and another place name, the article would still make just as much (or as little) sense. 

Frankly, an AI obituary is probably the most soulless thing I've encountered in a long time.

Offline rocker59

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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2024, 08:13:25 PM »
I was certain it was AI written by the end of the first paragraph. Hard to analyse why precisely.

Some pointers

It's highly repetitive

Many sentences, although long, actually convey no factual information

If you were to replace the main nouns, in this case John Wittner, Moto Guzzi motorcycles and Pennsylvania with two other names and another place name, the article would still make just as much (or as little) sense. 

Frankly, an AI obituary is probably the most soulless thing I've encountered in a long time.

 :thumb:
Michael T.
Aux Arcs de Akansea
2004 California EV Touring II
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are." - Theodore Roosevelt

Online nc43bsa

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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2024, 10:57:29 PM »
I was certain it was AI written by the end of the first paragraph. Hard to analyse why precisely.

Some pointers

It's highly repetitive

Many sentences, although long, actually convey no factual information

If you were to replace the main nouns, in this case John Wittner, Moto Guzzi motorcycles and Pennsylvania with two other names and another place name, the article would still make just as much (or as little) sense. 

Frankly, an AI obituary is probably the most soulless thing I've encountered in a long time.

I came to the same conclusion but I couldn't quite articulate why.  Your description nailed it.   :thumb:
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Offline testa_di_formaggio

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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2024, 06:37:52 AM »
:thumb:

Wish I could articulate it as well as you cats did. I looked at it and thought: Keep Pennsylvania, sub Ducati and Eraldo Ferracci.

Something tells me we are going to see shit tons of this kind of dreck going forward.....

TdF

Offline Moparnut72

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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2024, 08:28:09 AM »
I came to the same conclusion but I couldn't quite articulate why.  Your description nailed it.   :thumb:

You saw and said what I couldn't. Excellent.  :thumb:
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Offline Tusayan

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Re: Dr. John RIP
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2024, 10:51:50 AM »
https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/moto-guzzi-racebike-designer-john-wittner-dies/

Nice obit by Kevin Cameron.

A very nice obituary, with one major factual error:  Umberto Todero designed the Daytona’s 4V heads in Mandello before Wittner was on the scene and was developing them on the dyno when Wittner came to visit.  When pressured to give Wittner a set for the US race program he was not happy, and gave him a worn out set.  Wittner rebuilt them, used them successfully to win races and eventually Todero and Wittner became partners working in Mandello.

It took a long time however to get the 4V heads into serial production.  The belt drive on the front means they run hot and were prone to crack in prototype testing.  The metallurgical solution was I understand developed with the help of a (German?) outside company referred to Guzzi by TRW, who was the US Army prime contractor for the Guzzi powered Hunter UAV and therefore in regular contact with Guzzi.  I’ve read Wittner eventually worked for TRW after his return to the US. The only problem with the production heads was that the stronger alloy was harder to cast and sometimes led to faulty castings.  I remember one faulty Centauro cylinder head that was replaced under warranty because it cracked in half in the first few miles of use.

Wittner did have the 4V heads ported in the US by somebody knowledgeable (Axtell? I can’t recall) and that port configuration was used on the production heads.  Other Wittner inspired US engineering input was from Crane cams (their profile was used on the 1100 Sport etc), Carrillo connecting rods used on the Daytona RS, Centauro and Sport Corsa, and maybe the first use of AGM batteries on a production bike - an Odyssey AGM battery on its side was used starting in 1997 to replace the awkward twin battery setup on the earlier carb Sport.

The Guzzi engineering department was just a few people in the 90s but they did a lot.  Its last post-Wittner hurrah under Aprilia was bringing in Giuseppe Ghezzi, who had done the MGS-01 under contract, but Guzzi’s engineering capability was subsequently disbanded by Piaggio instead of being reinforced.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2024, 09:34:07 PM by Tusayan »

 

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