Czakky’s T3

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I went back through the carbs again today (among many other things). I found that my floats are labeled 8g where the service manual calls for a 14g float. Anyway I found somewhere the 8g floats are to be set at 18mm as opposed to 23mm or some where there abouts. Try as I might but there is no way for me to set these floats that high. I found them at 23mm (I’m forgetting exactly what the height is) which is what they were supposed to be set at stock.

Does anybody have an opinion on this?

Let me guess: the 8 gram floats are those horrible white ones? I chuck those in the bin and replace them with original 14 gram ones.

[czakky82]

No they are actually solid black ones. I said 8g they might be 10...

[wirespokes]

The answer, of course, is replace them with 14 gram floats. 

[czakky82]

NLA.
Anybody have 14g black floats?

I don’t think this is my problem, since the bike did run fine for a while. It should be made right though.

[wirespokes]

14g floats are NLA???

That sucks!

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

10 or 14 - I've never seen much of a difference. Set them at 23.5-24.5 mm.

[czakky82]

A freakin bad CONDENSER! Brand new of course. Right cylinder. Aaaargh!

Happy I got it!

Thanks for the support.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

A freakin bad CONDENSER! Brand new of course. Right cylinder. Aaaargh!

Happy I got it!

Thanks for the support.

I had the same thing on a customer's V700 - brand new Facet condenser bad right out of the box. The first bad one of probably two dozen I've installed over the last few years.

[czakky82]

Yup, I’ve always heard that a good old condenser is better than an unknown new condenser.

Really felt like a lean condition but it never backfired or popped.

 What’s the sayin? 90% of carburation problems are ignition problems.

[wirespokes]

I've heard that a bad condenser can mimic just about any poor running condition.

And that takes us back to the mechanic's maxim "inspect the last thing changed/handled".

Well done figuring it out! My first condenser issue was in 1970 in the middle of nowhere Indiana cruising along, then suddenly running like crap. Thought it was carburation but couldn't fix it, called a tow, the tow driver went right to the consdenser and fixed it on the side of the road. Had a condenser go bad on the R90 and spent days figuring that one out. It would run fine, then suddenly die and not restart. After a while of checking, it would suddenly start again. Took it on a test ride to Swan Island which is a couple hundred feet lower than the rest of the landscape. It died down there and so I pushed the thing all the way back home, which wasn't that far, but the push up the hill was certainly tiring.

Some experiences you just don't forget.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Yup, I’ve always heard that a good old condenser is better than an unknown new condenser.

Really felt like a lean condition but it never backfired or popped.

 What’s the sayin? 90% of carburation problems are ignition problems.

That's mine. Carburation problems are generally ignition. 

[Muzz]

Nice find.

Electrolytic condensers can repair themselves  to a certain extent, but of course, they will always be faulty.  It does tend to lead to that "intermittent" which we all love.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I know of a guy (I won't mention any names  ) that traded away a very nice disc Eldorado because it wouldn't run right. Turned out to be the condenser.

[czakky82]

Not out of the weeds yet... She ran great, like really great for about 3 miles. Then the same symptoms came back.

I have yet to dig into it again, but what would cause a condenser to keep dying?

As I type this I am wondering if a failing regulator could overcharge and cause problems with a condenser?

I haven’t diagnosed anything yet, just spit balling...

[wirespokes]

After my heavy duty refresh this winter and my first couple rides she ran great, not perfect but acceptable. Then somehow after getting my linked brake issue solved she’s running like crap. Like just bogs with any throttle input. Hot or cold it doesn’t make much difference. Once rolling up past 4K it seems to get better but still bad. If I give her some choke (enrichener) it would just die.

These are the symptoms? Sure sounds like carburetion to me. It ran fine last year before all this work?

My guess would be something aint right in the carbs.

[czakky82]

I just bought the bike this winter. It has run great for a few miles twice. Then something happens seemingly with a condenser. I am going to dig into it a bit this evening.

It definitely ran great after replacing a condenser, I could see constant blue sparks on the right side points when idling before I replaced the condenser.

[Tom H]

Have you checked for spark at the 3 miles when it acts up? Both sides?

Things to consider.... Coil, plug wires and caps, plugs, fuel filter, fuel valves.

Runs fine for a short while..... Could be getting gas starved. If it sits for a minute, does it run fine again for the same time? Could be ignition. The components can act up when hot. Had a coil that worked fine until it got warmed up, then cut out. Do you need to let it completely cool before it runs decent again?

Just some things to think about,
Tom

[czakky82]

Now the left condenser! Both were brand new. Again I popped the distributor cover off and the left cylinder was sparking like crazy. Threw the old one on and went for a quick spin and it ran fine.

I bought the allegedly better condensers, they even test good with my meter that can check capacitance. I’m not sure what I’m missing.

@TomH, it seems to have nothing to do with being hot or cold. When it starts running like crap it stays that way. I’m very confident that it’s the condensers now. Just not sure why they are playing up? When they fail they completely fail. Yet test ok....?

I’ve got to travel for work for a couple days but hopefully this weekend I can get some miles on her.

[wirespokes]

What a headache!

[Muzz]

Coils can start off ok, then die, cool down and repair themselves only to die again when they warm up.

[czakky82]

Can a coil contribute to a condenser failing? Would a coil have to do with some real ugly sparking at the points?

In case you can’t tell I’m stuck on the condensers.

[RinkRat II]

      I don't know how much the wiring has been fiddled with but I would check for correct polarity on those coils. Ugly sparking has me wondering.......... ...

    Paul B

[czakky82]

With the old condensers back on she has been running great!

But I’m still not out of the weeds. My original regulator had tape wrapped around it and I was only getting 13.8v at full song. Regulators are cheap so I threw one on from MG. Then she stopped charging. I threw back in the old reg but still she wasn’t charging. Checked AC voltage at the rectifier, nothing. Checked resistance at the rotor and it was good. Went through my connections at the stator and fired it up, nothing. Then for no reason at all it started charging again.

This is the original type charging system (three phase. Bosch?).

What gives? Does this sound like brushes? I’m not too familiar with these systems.

[wirespokes]

It could be brushes. When they're worn they can get cocked in their channels, hang up not contacting the slip ring. Take a look and see if the pigtail is stretched tight. I think the brushes are something like 14mm new (don't take my word for it - been a long time since I've looked at the spec).

Whatever it is, it's intermittent - the worst kind of fault! Maybe it's a lead broken inside the insulation. Or broken near its end.

I'm not familiar with Guzzi sites on troubleshooting the system (Greg Bender?) but the airhead BMWs have the exact same system and this guy (snowbum) has quite a write up (his day job was electronics repair):

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/trbleshootalt.htm

[czakky82]

Looks like a good read.

Thanks again wirespokes!

[canuck750]

I just replace all the old Guzzi electronic componets with new parts from Euro Moto electrics, pretty cheap if you buy all the bits in the kit. I have had two bikes aith one bad diode that just kept the charging system under minimum.

Are you using coper core high tension leads? Mike Harper diagnosed a similar problem years ago on my 1972 Eldorado, I was running /modern' high tension leads that overheated the coil.

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/edl1-altkit105.htm

Ekectrical gremlins are a bear!

[czakky82]

If I have another blip after replacing the brushes, I will end up buying that kit.

Not sure if my HT leads are modern, they are the recommended ones from MG Cycle. With resistor caps. That is interesting though.

[canuck750]

If I have another blip after replacing the brushes, I will end up buying that kit.

Not sure if my HT leads are modern, they are the recommended ones from MG Cycle. With resistor caps. That is interesting though.

If you got the leads from MG Cycle they will be copper core, the 'right' ones to use.

[czakky82]

Just when I’m about ready to shop for horns!
I went for a nice ride this evening and it looks like my base gasket is leaking. I thought I was out of the weeds!

Full disclosure, I had a moment of, “Did I orient the rings correctly?” This winter and took this cylinder apart to verify after the initial two head torques. Then I proceeded to re-torque after a few heat cycles and again after 200 miles.

So unless anybody tells me otherwise I’ll get the parts on order and refresh the gaskets... again.

Do I have to re-hone the cylinder or anything? It’s brand new (300 miles).

That’ll take the wind out of a guys sails...
Thanks for any help.

[czakky82]

Anybody have opinions on my last post? I can’t find anybody who ever had leaking base gaskets...