V100 Mandello Merged Threadfest

[SLDMRossi]

https://www.rideapart.com/news/656712/spec-showdown-motoguzziv100mandello-vs-hondant1100/

Steven Rossi

[rocker59]

https://www.rideapart.com/news/656712/spec-showdown-motoguzziv100mandello-vs-hondant1100/

Steven Rossi

I can't imagine riders cross-shopping these two machines...

To summarize:

"Both achieve their ends with efficiency, but that doesn’t lend to direct comparison."

"The Goose upholds the ‘sport’ side of sport-touring, while the Honda focuses on the ‘touring’ part of the phrase. Those characteristics will appeal to different customers, making both a winner in the market."

"For our purposes—which usually sides with performance—there’s no other choice than the Moto Guzzi. The Honda certainly brings its fair share of pragmatism and reliability to the sport-touring party. However, with the V100 Mandello, Moto Guzzi ushers its brand and the category into the future."

[Tusayan]

Who turns off the service reminder light after you finish adjusting your own bikes valves etc? Or just checking them if no adjustment is needed.

I am sure there are dealers reading this who could answer now.

[blackcat]

Who turns off the service reminder light after you finish adjusting your own bikes valves etc? Or just checking them if no adjustment is needed.

I am sure there are dealers reading this who could answer now.

BMW motorcycles have MotoScan to clear the codes, hopefully there is something else out there that will work for the V100.

https://www.bmwownersnews.com/2021/11/motoscan-and-obdlink-mx/

[guzzisteve]

A guy over on GT forum posted his dash pic, said 144mph.

[brother dave]

More V100 porn...
https://youtu.be/vhEmq2IpT_4

[Huzo]

More V100 porn...
https://youtu.be/vhEmq2IpT_4

I like that guy’s style.
He packs a lot into his presentation and talks like a biker. I really hope all the new tech type stuff hangs together over the journey and have no reason to think it won’t.
I can see how archaic my Norge is starting to seem, but I do not see that as a negative.
If I did though…..

[brother dave]

I like that guy’s style.
He packs a lot into his presentation and talks like a biker. I really hope all the new tech type stuff hangs together over the journey and have no reason to think it won’t.
I can see how archaic my Norge is starting to seem, but I do not see that as a negative.
If I did though…..

I am a little concerned about the amount of user un-serviceable tech as well.  I have some hope as they seem to be re-using somewhat more mature Aprilia electronics this may help.  As for the valves, sure its 10 times more complex than the current Guzzis but still easily accomplished as long as you can follow instructions and take a little care.

[MGrego]

I can see how archaic my Norge is starting to seem, but I do not see that as a negative.

I was thinking the same thing about my Norge....

[kingoffleece]

"Pay close attention not to drop the calibrated pads into the engine."
  Ok, then.
 

[Phil/TX]

AF1 was great, got the bike after an early morning drive to Austin (500 mile round trip) now have 300 miles on it, and still learning the steep curve. Taking it on a 700 mile trip in the morning. Will give a report when I get back.

[Huzo]

Who turns off the service reminder light after you finish adjusting your own bikes valves etc? Or just checking them if no adjustment is needed.

I am sure there are dealers reading this who could answer now.

Well I do routinely on my Norge, but the V85 one is ever present.

[jrt]

AF1 was great, got the bike after an early morning drive to Austin (500 mile round trip) now have 300 miles on it, and still learning the steep curve. Taking it on a 700 mile trip in the morning. Will give a report when I get back.

Looks great!   

[sdcr]

I stopped by Motoplex in West Chester on Wednesday. They had a V100 intro day, and had a about a dozen in stock, both base and S models. About 10 were presold, but they said more are coming. Got to sit on one, and hear it. Makes a nice rumble. The big old Vtwin, looks “ small” and very short, compared to air cooled models.

First impression, is a high level of fit and finish. Nothing appears to be parts bin, or cobbled. The “ invisible”  Hard bag racks are very cool. They are integrated into the bike, so all you need to purchase is the bags themselves, quoted at $850. Another feature is the under the seat phone charger, with a spot that fits the phone.

I really like the red with gold wheels.







so we ll go no more a roving poem

[blackcat]

I do like the red, hopefully they will come out with an S model version.

[usedtobefast]

On the shims vs screw/wrench adjustments ...

I've always seen an exact clearance number for bikes with the screw/wrench style adjusters ... and, you can get them easily to that exact number.

On bikes with shims, I've always seen a range of clearance listed ... so the clearance can change over time, but as long as the clearance is in that range you are ok.  If the clearance was 1 exact number, you would probably need to re-shim several times.

Example bike "B" I have with shims, intake 0.13mm - 0.23mm and exhaust 0.30mm-0.40mm
Example bike "MG" with screw adjusters, intake 0.10mm and exhaust 0.15mm

If bike B (with shims) had 1 exact number, say 0.15mm for intake, and I checked it at say 0.19mm, then I would need to re-shim to get to 0.15mm ... but not the case, there is a fairly wide range in there, and in this example 0.19mm is still in the proper tolerance.

If bike MG (with screw adjusters) had an intake clearance of 0.14mm, I could easily adjust that to 0.10mm. 

I'm not 100% sure why this is.  But it makes it such that a screw type "needs" (gets?) more frequent adjustments than a shim type ... but in reality, the screw type is held to an exact clearance number vs a range.

And what I've done with many shim bikes ... I check the clearances (not super hard to do), and if they are off and need shimming, then I can set up a trip to a shop if I don't feel like pulling cams out and risking messing up engine/valve timing.  And like most guys figure out, the shim bikes don't often drift out of that fairly wide tolerance range.  My BMW R1200RT at 35,000 miles has never needed a shim, for example.

So ... buy the V, ride it, check clearance every 15,000 miles, and probably sell it before you need to re-shim.   

[usedtobefast]

I think I've read all 45 pages, not 100% sure ... so, not sure if this topic has been covered ...

When I read about this new engine, my thoughts have been "Oh, so Aprilia designed the motor for Moto Guzzi".  And wondered how the folks in Mandello Del Lario felt about that.  Like 100 years of making bikes and Piaggio (the scooter company) tells you Aprilia will make your new future motor for ya. 

Anyone know how that came about?  Maybe it really is one happy family.  Maybe it was a great coordinated effort between Moto Guzzi and Aprilia, with Piaggio funding and supporting it.

I guess as the buying/riding public we shouldn't care what goes on in the kitchen.   

[LowRyter]

The local shop is supposed to be getting a White one today.  Unfortunately his customer ordered the Green and Silver one. 

[Huzo]

I think I've read all 45 pages, not 100% sure ... so, not sure if this topic has been covered ...

When I read about this new engine, my thoughts have been "Oh, so Aprilia designed the motor for Moto Guzzi".  And wondered how the folks in Mandello Del Lario felt about that.  Like 100 years of making bikes and Piaggio (the scooter company) tells you Aprilia will make your new future motor for ya. 

Anyone know how that came about?  Maybe it really is one happy family.  Maybe it was a great coordinated effort between Moto Guzzi and Aprilia, with Piaggio funding and supporting it.

I guess as the buying/riding public we shouldn't care what goes on in the kitchen.   

Maybe the “family” thing, is something we should all remember fondly but learn to let go of.
The world is inexorably moving away from the “tradition for tradition’s sake” mentality and more towards the hard nosed reality of corporate bean counting, but this is not unlike the British bike renaissance around the beginning of the Hinkley era with the demise of the Meriden experience.
It has been a much needed shot in the arm for them and I think history will show that it is the panacea that we had to have.
The waxed cotton/Belstaff wearing old timers will lament the passing of the old brigade as they bid their gleaming new faultless V100 goodnight and trundle off to their air conditioned unit to sleep off the lovely meal and cheeky wine they enjoyed for dinner.
I used to wipe the remnants of a hamburger off my pie hole with my sleeve, now I dab the corners of my gob with a white serviette, I’m becoming a cultured bastard….
The days of laying down under a ground sheet smelling of petrol and greasy hands, after patching up some old relic and missing the hamburger joint because you were “working on the bike”, are disappearing in the fancy shaped mirrors, along with a million memories of mates, loyalty and adversity.
You won’t remember the trouble free ride ten years later, but you’ll never forget the time you nearly set the Norge on fire in rural France.
As that great philosopher Bob Dylan put it…?

“The times they are a changing’…” 

[guzzisteve]

I think I've read all 45 pages, not 100% sure ... so, not sure if this topic has been covered ...

When I read about this new engine, my thoughts have been "Oh, so Aprilia designed the motor for Moto Guzzi".  And wondered how the folks in Mandello Del Lario felt about that.  Like 100 years of making bikes and Piaggio (the scooter company) tells you Aprilia will make your new future motor for ya. 

Anyone know how that came about?  Maybe it really is one happy family.  Maybe it was a great coordinated effort between Moto Guzzi and Aprilia, with Piaggio funding and supporting it.

I guess as the buying/riding public we shouldn't care what goes on in the kitchen.   

No worse than Bennelli makining bikes badged Guzzi years back. Nothing changed.
I would worry when you take it in for service they get all info & void the warranty. Like in the guy posted on GT forum that went 144 @ 9,000rpm on a new bike. This happens w/BMW service. Memory in the ECU or dash? Time will tell, they also read forums so don't brag.

[Moparnut72]

I am a diehard Mopar fan. Would I be upset if I learned that Peugeot and Fiat had a lot to do with the design of the new Dodge Hornet? Nope, especially if it results in a better car. I don't know but I suspect a lot of it comes from Europe as they have a lot of experience building small cars. If this helps keep Moto Guzzi healthy, great.
kk

[LowRyter]

I have to say if it's like Ducati being owned by Audi, I'd guess that Guzzi may finally be better off with the Piaggio.  The electronics on these new bikes have to be dead reliable.  If we know anything about legacy Guzzis, anything electric was a big guess at best.

Given my Ducati, I'm pretty impressed with the pricing and quality this kind of product integration has resulted.  If anything, the European bikes are every bit as equal to the Japanese bikes.  <knock wood>

[lucian]

The best v100 review I have found ' lots of info and operation data here. looks promising
https://www.saferiders.it/2023-moto-guzzi-v100-mandello-review/

[Duc-Duc-Goose]

I was thinking the same thing about my Norge....

Me as well… in fact I just traded my ‘15 Norge (that’s been a wonderful traveling companion!) in on a V100 S, today . Getting the hard bags too. Any other “must have accessories?” I’ve read that the TFT screen is easily scratched. And, also thinking some protection for the “rotated” exhaust pipes and heads. Pretty stoked!

[Tusayan]

 

I think I've read all 45 pages, not 100% sure ... so, not sure if this topic has been covered ...

When I read about this new engine, my thoughts have been "Oh, so Aprilia designed the motor for Moto Guzzi".  And wondered how the folks in Mandello Del Lario felt about that.  Like 100 years of making bikes and Piaggio (the scooter company) tells you Aprilia will make your new future motor for ya. 

Anyone know how that came about?  Maybe it really is one happy family.  Maybe it was a great coordinated effort between Moto Guzzi and Aprilia, with Piaggio funding and supporting it.

I guess as the buying/riding public we shouldn't care what goes on in the kitchen.   

At least they aren’t Chinese owned.

There is really no Guzzi and no Aprilia, that was gone over 20 years ago.  Piaggio was before that time looking around for a way to move up in size from scooters, having taken note of the resurgence of larger Italian motorcycle sales in the 90s. After their attempted purchase of Cagiva failed, they gave up on the idea of making Piaggio engined nuovo-Gileras at the Cagiva plant and instead bought Aprilia. This was a good match because as well as them buying a successful competitor in a contracting scooter market, Aprilia was also a motorcycle manufacturer with little powertrain engineering experience - their production motorcycle engines were mostly designed and built by Rotax or Suzuki instead. Meanwhile Piaggio as a relatively huge engineering company had lots of relevant experience in engines but little in full size motorcycle chassis engineering.  Guzzi came along for the ride in this purchase, more by chance than intent, having been an Aprilia subsidiary for a few years. Guzzi had some remaining powertrain engineering capability that Aprilia had never shut down but Umberto Todero the long time chief engineer died in 2005 and that provided a turning point.  Guzzis engineering and management was then shut down by Piaggio and their staff in Mandello became a couple of hundred assembly line workers.

Nowadays Aprilia and Guzzi are divisions and brands of Piaggio that share engineering staff and take direction from the same senior and mid-level management. Powertrain engineering is mostly done at the Piaggio main plant in Pontedera and Aprilia does the chassis engineering.  The V100 engine was designed by Federico Martini (RIP) several years ago - he is known for having led Bimota engineering for a period after their peak, before taking over Piaggio powertrain engineering and designing for example the Dorsoduro V-twin.  The bikes are still assembled at the legacy plants that were associated with the two companies before they were acquired, this is essential for marketing purposes where a perception of brand ‘authenticity’ supports higher retail prices.

My own feeling is that Piaggio’s management of Guzzi was not that great initially (being charitable) but slowly, slowly they have figured out roughly what to do with a product that has a lot of potential.  This is much better than VW’s direction with Ducati which has lost the plot in terms of Ducati’s brand value.

[usedtobefast]

Tusayan - thanks for the excellent history and info! 

I assume the V7 III engines were made in Madello?  Like you could see pistons and valves and crankshafts being put together. 

Is that the situation with the V100 engine?  Or do crates of motors show up on the loading dock? 

[LowRyter]

At least they aren’t Chinese owned.

There is really no Guzzi and no Aprilia, that was gone over 20 years ago.  Piaggio was before that time looking around for a way to move up in size from scooters, having taken note of the resurgence of larger Italian motorcycle sales in the 90s. After their attempted purchase of Cagiva failed, they gave up on the idea of making Piaggio engined nuovo-Gileras at the Cagiva plant and instead bought Aprilia. This was a good match because as well as them buying a successful competitor in a contracting scooter market, Aprilia was also a motorcycle manufacturer with little powertrain engineering experience - their production motorcycle engines were mostly designed and built by Rotax or Suzuki instead. Meanwhile Piaggio as a relatively huge engineering company had lots of relevant experience in engines but little in full size motorcycle chassis engineering.  Guzzi came along for the ride in this purchase, more by chance than intent, having been an Aprilia subsidiary for a few years. Guzzi had some remaining powertrain engineering capability that Aprilia had never shut down but Umberto Todero the long time chief engineer died in 2005 and that provided a turning point.  Guzzis engineering and management was then shut down by Piaggio and their staff in Mandello became a couple of hundred assembly line workers.

Nowadays Aprilia and Guzzi are divisions and brands of Piaggio that share engineering staff and take direction from the same senior and mid-level management. Powertrain engineering is mostly done at the Piaggio main plant in Pontedera and Aprilia does the chassis engineering.  The V100 engine was designed by Federico Martini (RIP) several years ago - he is known for having led Bimota engineering for a period after their peak, before taking over Piaggio powertrain engineering and designing for example the Dorsoduro V-twin.  The bikes are still assembled at the legacy plants that were associated with the two companies before they were acquired, this is essential for marketing purposes where a perception of brand ‘authenticity’ supports higher retail prices.

My own feeling is that Piaggio’s management of Guzzi was not that great initially (being charitable) but slowly, slowly they have figured out roughly what to do with a product that has a lot of potential.  This is much better than VW’s direction with Ducati which has lost the plot in terms of Ducati’s brand value.

I suppose your last sentence was directed to me.

I'll admit that I've never owned a legacy Ducati.  I will say that my '17 model has been the best and most reliable motorcycle I've ever owned.  Ducati has come out with numerous models, a new V4 engine and have dominated GP racing.  My impression is the Audi was provided them with capital and suppliers that have improved the brand, particularly performance, cost and reliability.  This is the consensus of the folks I'm in touch with my Ducati forums as well.

So far as Guzzi.  I agree with what you've said, that over time quality has improved with Piaggio.  I recall last week talking to the owner of the local shop and he made a point the V85TT and the recent small blocks have been very reliable and the former only had a couple of minor recalls.

Me, I'm partial to Italian bikes because of the "feel".  They seem to fit me.  I like the power band, even Guzzis which aren't that powerful, and the confidence I have in the turns and brakes. 

anyway, my 2 cents. 

[Tusayan]

Tusayan - thanks for the excellent history and info! 

I assume the V7 III engines were made in Madello?  Like you could see pistons and valves and crankshafts being put together. 

Is that the situation with the V100 engine?  Or do crates of motors show up on the loading dock?

The small block engines are made in Mandello, at least I believe so.  There may have been some variation a long time ago when the small block bikes were built at Innocenti in Milano but I’m not really an expert on the small blocks.  As I understand it the newer Guzzi gearboxes are made in Pontedera (Piaggio).

The question about where the new V100 engine is manufactured is a good one and I don’t know the answer - I don’t know what has happened recently to Guzzi engine manufacture.  It would be interesting to see some photos of the engines being produced, and I guess that will happen eventually.  Traditionally Guzzi made all their own engines and also for example the four and six cylinder Benelli engines way back in the 70s.

[blackcat]

Speaking of engines, I wonder if they will up the HP for the new Stelvio to compete with the competition? The Pan America, GS are in the 150HP range and Guzzi will need to get close to that number to compete. To those who don't think HP sells.......HP sells.

[Huzo]

To those who don't think HP sells.......HP sells.

It is a significant factor, but not the main driver. Certainly not like it was in the race rep era.
I find it enthralling to think how much we (males) are attracted to bikes in the same way as we are to women. We can all see outward beauty when and where it exists and we can allow ourselves a flight of fancy to imagine how desireable it would be to experience that aspect if the opportunity arose…
But at some point the reality of other factors begins to skew our decision making process.
Does she smoke ?
Does she shower ?
How did I attract her attention so easily ? (That’s a good one…).
Can she cook ? (That’s an old fashioned and largely outdated one).

MV Agusta latest and greatest= stunning looks and attention grabber, but shocking and largely unsustainable costs.
Suzuki Hyabusa or Kawasaki ZX14R= Outright performance and no licence in two weeks or severe injury.
BMW Six cylinder behemoth=Massive monetary outlay and crushing weight at parking lot speeds.

Point is…
Yes HP sells to some people some of the time and then they move to something else milder or vice versa. Everything sells to some of the people some of the time and not to others.
If I could bolt on another 30 kW to my Norge for 20 bucks, I wouldn’t bother, or for the same cost, increase my V85 to the performance of a Ducati Multistrada…? Same answer.
I…Just…Don’t…Care…
Have a look at how Royal Enfield Himalayas, Interceptors and V85’s are selling, the reality of law enforcement here in Australia is such, that having an extreme performance bike is just a useless toss fest.
If you turn up to a ride day these days on a Ducati Panigale or Kawasaki H2 dressed in race leathers and pristine knee scrapers, you just look like a tool.
Yes..Horsepower sells very well, if you’re buying a racehorse…