Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: chuck peterson on December 17, 2018, 08:18:04 AM
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Still can't...... :popcorn: $100k
Modified to correct listing...Lannis is curious...windfall lotto ticket?
https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/mcy/d/1949-vincent-rapide/6772185691.html
(https://i.ibb.co/sWMfLnc/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sWMfLnc)
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Cripes! Unlikely he/she garages it @ the NYC address?
But. Might it be ridden tomorrow to the 'Ear Inn on Spring St., barring snow showers? For Euro Bike night? I'd drop-in for that,--- from here.
All that power w/cable mechanical brakes, too. Thanx for the temptation. R3~
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:angry:
kjf
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Cripes! Unlikely he/she garages it @ the NYC address?
But. Might it be ridden tomorrow to the 'Ear Inn on Spring St., barring snow showers? For Euro Bike night? I'd drop-in for that,--- from here.
All that power w/cable mechanical brakes, too. Thanx for the temptation. R3~
Hey, it was designed to go fast, not stop fast. Just make sure it has a loud horn.
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If you are serious looking for a genuine bike , you will discover this one needs HUGE money to (re)become a real and valuable Vincent .
Fortunatly everything is available . Have a look on Vincent spares from the VOC , quote and run , run ,... :grin:
But if you are rich and you don't care about original bikes , why not waste your money ?
You want to buy a Vincent ? Best advices from my experience :
- Be a VOC member and learn the models , the series and their differences.
- Learn the way of understanding the serial numbers .
- A doubt ? Contact the VOC registrar. Simon is very helpfull.
And don't forget . As those splendid bikes are turning ridiciously expensive , don't trust anybody , especially the seller ( even if he is a well known member).
Now, you won't say you didn't know.
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Still can't...... :popcorn: $100k
Modified to correct listing...Lannis is curious...windfall lotto ticket?
https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/mcy/d/1949-vincent-rapide/6772185691.html
(https://i.ibb.co/sWMfLnc/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sWMfLnc)
That one there looks a little pricey, but you can still get a decent riding Vincent in the $50,000 range.
We were on a Britbike ride in the Carolina mountains with some friends last year; and one of the guys brought his Vincent for the 220 mile ride, he rode it just like a regular motorcycle in the mountains.
Last gas stop was about 60 miles from the destination motel. He said "You want to take it back to the barn?"
I said "Yes PLEASE". He gave me the starting procedure for that particular bike (Open kill switch, pull in decompressor, 'long swinging kick' and release the decompressor right at the end), it started right up and idled perfectly. I took off, about a mile down the road a pickup truck pulled out in front of me necessitating getting HARD on the brakes, and it stopped without drama.
My take after 60 miles of mountain riding was that it has a beautiful, torquey, powerful engine, the equal of any V-twin sold today, which engine is enclosed in supported by pure 1950s British frame and girder fork technology, which means you'd better stay on top of things or it will get on top of YOU.
It was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity provided by a good friend to whom I will be forever grateful, but it also dissolved any "bucket list" dreams I might have had about cashing in all my existing bikes and sinking it into a Vincent for regular riding .... I'm very happy now without one, instead of having this gnawing "Should I? Should I? I only live once ..." feeling ....
Lannis
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Back in the late eighties I was working my way through university by fixing mowers and gardening at a large cemetery in my area. One of the jobs I had was maintaining the Honda motorcycle the grounds keeper used to get around. One day I was buying parts from the Honda dealer that I liked (and close to a pub I really liked) when the owner said to me, (your into old bikes, See that old guy. Hes got a shed full of Vincent's). I didn't really think much of it at the time as you hear these stories all the time but this disheveled little guy became my unicorn and I kept hearing the same story.
Fast forward a few years and I was at the same dealer buying parts for a Honda CB200 that I had. The dealership had moved but it was a real old fashioned bike shop and I liked it. Parked outside was the most beat up BMW R90s I have ever seen. So having owned two I thought I would talk to the owner. Little guy in a torn parka. About four days growth on his chin. Turned out he was the guy with the Vincent's. He was also into Honda CB160s but had owned a Vincent dealership in the forties/fifties (two stores, one behind my favorite Chinese restaurant). He told me he used to buy them off guys when they wore them out after not maintaining them properly. Some he got for a case of beer. He said one he got had been run with no oil. A lot were ex speedway sidecar racers that were popular here in the old days.
Anyway he was a nice old gent but a bit prickly and it turned out his house was across the road from where my parents were married. Small world. I didn't see him again but I was told he had died and when they cleaned out his house he had 27 Vincent's in varying states of disrepair and assorted motors and tons of other parts. This was before the ridiculous explosion in prices but it still would have been worth a lot. Now ask me about the Brough I found in a disused goods lift.
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Lannis, your story is one that all who lust for our childhood desires should read, and having read let our hearts rest easy that we have not done ourselves wrong.
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So Lannis, what did you give him to ride "back to the barn?" :grin:
I think my favorite Vincent was one ridden by an older gent at the Ariel- Vin rally a couple years ago. It was a Rapide with the correct touring fenders (almost all have the Shadow blades) and Craven panniers. It had a burgundy and black paint job which he explained by saying he painted it like that when they weren't worth too much.
In the morning he turned on the taps and a float chamber started spilling gas. He deftly grabbed a wrench from the pannier, tapped the float and chuckled - "a bit of morning incontinence". It started right up and off we went.
Later I learned he'd ridden it from California to Alaska - twice!
(https://i.ibb.co/k40rYMv/IMG-2479-Mod.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k40rYMv)
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Uh , the type of people who spend that kind of money on a rare or exotic motorbike want it to be either original , restored to orignal , or have some significant provenance , none of which this bike has .
Dusty
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They painted flames on it.
wtf
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They painted flames on it.
wtf
yea they did way to much to it ............... :tongue:
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I have a Vincent story
When I was about 16 I went with my older Brother to have a look at a Vincent Rapide for sale, it was out in the country where a guy was renting an old farm house, he had restored it in the lounge.
He also had one other item he was quite proud of, an AJS Porcupine motor.
My Brother bought the Vincent and had it for several years, it ran pretty good but it had a fierce clutch, very hard to take off which made it hard to ride in town, I think this was his reason for parting with it.
He wouldn't sell it to me, i think he figured I would kill myself on it.
My Brothers Rapide, the other bike might be an Indian
(https://i.ibb.co/JKVfkNV/0189-015.jpg)
In the town I grew up I would sometimes see a Vincent Comet, several years later I bought that off the owners estate for about $500. It had a few issues, the shafts in the front forks had corroded (electrolysis I think) and were quite loose
and the cams and followers were badly worn, I was only a poor apprentice at the time so I built the cam & followers up with weld and re-shaped them with a file.
Thinking that the wear was due to lack of oil I drilled a hole above the cam and tapped into the oil line going to the cylinder head.
Underneath the seat is a tool tray that slides in a bracket like a drawer, I remember one day hitting a bump so hard the tray tore out and scattered tools all over the road.
At one time it dropped the exhaust valve and I had one of the machinists turn me another from a diesel valve.
I had the bike for about 5 years and eventually my Brother sold it to a collector on my behalf, he was going to restore it, last I heard it was still in bits.
The front forks are not really Girder, they are quite high tech with a cam you can flip over to change the rake for sidecar work.
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So JukeboxClassic,
tell us the one about the Brough in the disused goods lift.
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Uh , the type of people who spend that kind of money on a rare or exotic motorbike want it to be either original , restored to orignal , or have some significant provenance , none of which this bike has .
Dusty
Exactly!
I don’t have that kind of dough to spend on a toy, but if I did, I would want it unmolested.
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Exactly!
I don’t have that kind of dough to spend on a toy, but if I did, I would want it unmolested.
Thats it in a nutshell... its one thing to see a mis matched, cb750 thrown together with conflicting visions... but ... I dont know... this just doesnt work for me. The problem is they were so right to start with.. your not improving it... only changing it..
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Thats it in a nutshell... its one thing to see a mis matched, cb750 thrown together with conflicting visions... but ... I dont know... this just doesnt work for me. The problem is they were so right to start with.. your not improving it... only changing it..
On the other hand, the "Egli Vincents" and people creating nice "NorVins" are not necessarily doing a bad thing.
The Vincent engine is SO much nicer than the Vincent "frame" (consisting of the oil tank and ... nothing else), Girdraulic front end, funky rear end, and brakes, that I can see why someone would want a good-handling, good-stopping bike with that motor for go-power.
I don't say that an Egli or other well-engineered Vincent special should be worth more than a stock one, but I can see why people do it after riding one.
These Vincent experiences make it pretty clear, I think, that at one time Vincents WERE in fact treated like we would treat a worn out CB-350 Honda or Yamah Big Bear Scrambler ... chucked in the back of a shed to rust, or parted out for race bikes. I say again that we never know what will be a six-figure classic and what will not ...
As far as what did my Vincent friend get to ride back to town ... That year, some friends from England had come over, and we were riding the East Coast - Hatteras, Huntsville AL, Barber, and all. USUALLY I would have ridden a BSA or Norton down to North Carolina and done the Mountain ride on that, but this time we were in the middle of a 3000 mile two-week sightseeing trip, and we did the ride with Fay and I on our Triumph Trophy SE and my English friends on my Stelvio.
So I swapped him the Trophy SE for the Vincent. He climbed aboard, laid back against the backrest with his feet up, and said "Do I have to push a button or is there a voice command for "Take Me Home"?" ....
Lannis
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I found this guy broken down on the side of the road. Both of us were out of breath trying to start it and finally pushed it to his garage. I took this photo after he was able to get it going a week or two later.
(https://g4.img-dpreview.com/A4D0EF56066F461FA1363A053D9BFC05.jpg)
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My take after 60 miles of mountain riding was that it has a beautiful, torquey, powerful engine, the equal of any V-twin sold today, which engine is enclosed in supported by pure 1950s British frame and girder fork technology, which means you'd better stay on top of things or it will get on top of YOU.
Lannis
Are you saying the Vincent was equal to a triple disc brake 100 HP modern V twin sport bike ?
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Are you saying the Vincent was equal to a triple disc brake 100 HP modern V twin sport bike ?
No, I was saying the opposite of that ... ??
Brakes that would haul you to a hard stop reliably ONCE on a long downhill .... a suspension that created a great adventure for you using nothing more than a bump in a curve .... in other words, 50's Brit girder fork drum brake technology.
The ENGINE is the equivalent or superior of anything else I've ever ridden. Smooth, torquey, powerful. Nobody's made a better V-twin since.
Lannis
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Coming up at the MECUM auction in Vegas next month...("Oh my!!!") :shocked: :huh: :rolleyes: :thumb: :cool:
A Vincent for EVERYONE's taste!! Just bring the BIG CHECKBOOK!! :laugh: :grin: :wink:
(https://i.ibb.co/2vQTQRK/Screen-Shot-2018-12-18-at-5-41-51-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/2vQTQRK)
(https://i.ibb.co/zH8Zwpv/Screen-Shot-2018-12-18-at-5-41-37-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/zH8Zwpv)
face in hole harry potter (https://movieplotholes.com/harry-potter-and-the-chamber-of-secrets)
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Brakes that would haul you to a hard stop reliably ONCE on a long downhill .... a suspension that created a great adventure for you using nothing more than a bump in a curve .... in other words, 50's Brit girder fork drum brake technology.
The ENGINE is the equivalent or superior of anything else I've ever ridden. Smooth, torquey, powerful. Nobody's made a better V-twin since.
For those of us who may never get the chance to ride one, what would you compare the engine to? As I understand it, the chassis has adjustments all over, and once dialed in handles very well. Adjusted wrong and it's supposedly a mess.
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No, I was saying the opposite of that ... ??
Brakes that would haul you to a hard stop reliably ONCE on a long downhill .... a suspension that created a great adventure for you using nothing more than a bump in a curve .... in other words, 50's Brit girder fork drum brake technology.
The ENGINE is the equivalent or superior of anything else I've ever ridden. Smooth, torquey, powerful. Nobody's made a better V-twin since.
Lannis
Ok, ...Extremely unlikely I 'll ever ride one so I have to take your word for it....No one lets me ride anything nice, :cry:
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For those of us who may never get the chance to ride one, what would you compare the engine to? As I understand it, the chassis has adjustments all over, and once dialed in handles very well. Adjusted wrong and it's supposedly a mess.
Well, the owner liked it and rode it way faster than I ever would be able to, but perhaps some of that is due to the fact that I'm worried about throwing someone ELSE's $60,000 motorcycle down the road, and he's not. So maybe it was handling "good" and he's used to it and I wasn't, although I have four 50's and 60's Britbikes in the shed and thought I was well broke to them. Handling was not confidence-inspiring for me.
The motor wasn't rough, didn't vibrate, pulled hard from low RPMs on up, had good engine braking, instantly responded to the throttle, no hesitation. I couldn't think of any way to make it better.
Lannis
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Many years ago I was at a BMW rally in Boyer, WV and one of the locals came over to look at the bikes, on his daily rider. It was some manner of Vincent with, I believe, a GSXR inverted fork dual brake disc front end. Needless to say it attracted a lot of attention.
Howard
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Curiosity about Vincents got me to read what's available on the internet, much of it opinion of course.. In terms of acceleration, it can be compared to an ironhead Sportster, similar weight HP and torque, ..For sure the Sporty is a rougher more vibrating engine...It also seems Vincents like other bikes of that era have flaws that were never resolved by the factory...Some rather expensive one time work on the engine if the bike is ridden a lot.I believe cam and rocker wear issues..and perhaps main bearings...
The famous photo of Rollie Free stretched out on the Vincent at Bonneville to set a record of 150 MPH , would require about 75 HP . it's not a factory stock engine of course. But that's impressive power from such an engine..
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Curiosity about Vincents got me to read what's available on the internet, much of it opinion of course.. .......Some rather expensive one time work on the engine if the bike is ridden a lot.I believe cam and rocker wear issues..and perhaps main bearings...
Then there's this tough-looking old bird ...
(https://photos.smugmug.com/General/i-z9GBHTd/0/bd7d309d/O/390285990_cEWYU-L.jpg) (https://lannisselz.smugmug.com/General/i-z9GBHTd/A)
name of Stuart Jenkins who bought this Vincent in 1955 and put 715,000 miles on it touring Europe, UK and lands beyond. 3 major rebuilds in that time, so that's about on par with someone's Guzzi or BMW or Harley Big Twin ....
That's what got me thinking about Vincents. A lot of people here could do that ... cash in all the other bikes on the list of "My Bikes" in the signature, buy a $5,000 used Dodge Ram instead of the $40,000 crew cab King Ranch, and you'd be riding a Vincent.
But you'd have to be "all in" on it. Everything except the motor is just Old British Bike - cables, carburetors, suspension, brakes, transmission, chains, sprockets, electrics - all of that would be no different that a BSA of the era, and I already do that. The motor is a different thing - there are only a few specialists who deal with them, and you'd have to have plenty of lead time and probably a few dollars from the couch cushions to cover a major rebuild. But if those were truly 200,000 miles apart (as with Mr. Jenkins), that's handleable too.
I thought long and hard about it, but declined. It would be fun, and if you fancy some socializing and attention, you'd have all you could stand riding one of these everywhere ....
Lannis
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Close to the best of the two worlds .
(https://i.ibb.co/G0zPmty/20180810-191701.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G0zPmty)
(https://i.ibb.co/mSC8hgb/20180810-191721.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mSC8hgb)
(https://i.ibb.co/jVG2qmt/20180801-221257.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jVG2qmt)
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Close to the best of the two worlds .
(https://i.ibb.co/G0zPmty/20180810-191701.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G0zPmty)
I'll go along with that! Yours, by any chance?
Lannis
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700K miles on a Vincent is impressive, almost unreal....... The late Pat Owens put over 500,000 documented miles on a 70 Triumph...Certainly it was rebuilt a number of times but I can't imagine riding one 1/5th that distance
Some riders just don't stop...
(https://ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Pat-Owens.jpg)
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700K miles on a Vincent is impressive, almost unreal....... The late Pat Owens put over 500,000 documented miles on a 70 Triumph...Certainly it was rebuilt a number of times but I can't imagine riding one 1/5th that distance
Some riders just don't stop...
(https://ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Pat-Owens.jpg)
I have personally met only 3 folks who have put 400K+ miles on one bike, one being a quick Hello! to Karl Werth and his Guzzi once, one being a guy I met at a mutual friend's funeral with an R75/5 with a little over 490,000, and one being a Harley rider with over 500,000.
Quite a few folks here on the list have that many lifetime miles, or many more, but it's been on many bikes, not just one.
It has taken me a whole riding lifetime to realize that I would be a safer, happier, more secure rider if I kept one bike and just kept it running, no matter what, because my reflexes and reactions work better that way.
And if I were going around again, I would not do the "A Bike Brand For Every Brand Rally" or the two-up/antique/sport/bimbler collection ... I'd pick a bike I really loved (and there have been several), and make the decision that I would ride it and no other. It's just a mechanical thing with a finite number of parts, and every single one can be replaced, so it's doable, it's just not common.
Too late now, though!
Lannis
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I the Mid 80s I was working at a small shipyard in Seattle. The Superintendent had a Vincent and a cocaine problem. I offered him 10 grand for a nice condition , running Black Shadow and my offer was rudely declined. Three months later he sold it to our welding supplier for less than 4 thousand dollars at 3 in the morning. Damn, The Vincent deal of the Century and I missed it.
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I imagined a similar long term relationship with a Velocette.Until I rode a few.
Down to one bike now, and going many more places than before. And actually seeing them!
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I imagined a similar long term relationship with a Velocette.Until I rode a few.
If you read Clement Salvadori's essays and stories, you'll find him trying to do the very same thing ... buying a new Velocette and (trying to) see the world from it. Some things are just not meant to be ....
Lannis
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@Lannis
Vincent gone.
Duke still in the garage. :thumb:
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Curiosity about Vincents got me to read what's available on the internet, much of it opinion of course.. In terms of acceleration, it can be compared to an ironhead Sportster, similar weight HP and torque, ..For sure the Sporty is a rougher more vibrating engine...It also seems Vincents like other bikes of that era have flaws that were never resolved by the factory...Some rather expensive one time work on the engine if the bike is ridden a lot.I believe cam and rocker wear issues..and perhaps main bearings...
The famous photo of Rollie Free stretched out on the Vincent at Bonneville to set a record of 150 MPH , would require about 75 HP . it's not a factory stock engine of course. But that's impressive power from such an engine..
The engine in the Rollie Free bike was a Black Lightening motor which was based on the Picador project , which was an engine built for use in drones. Caged rod bearings instead of lose ball , higher compression , bumpier cams , etc . Probably most Vinnies running today have engines which are a blend of Lightening spec with softer tuning . Interestingly enough , that LSR Vinnie ran faster at a later time , but the sanctioning body made him wear protective gear , and he wasn't stretched out on a piece of plywood , so the pictures aren't as , er , dramatic :laugh: Memory says it ran 155. something , of course all of this was running dope , not straight race gas .
Dusty
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I the Mid 80s I was working at a small shipyard in Seattle. The Superintendent had a Vincent and a cocaine problem. I offered him 10 grand for a nice condition , running Black Shadow and my offer was rudely declined. Three months later he sold it to our welding supplier for less than 4 thousand dollars at 3 in the morning. Damn, The Vincent deal of the Century and I missed it.
Sounds like a different currency might have better completed the transaction.....
When I had & still had to have all kinds of bikes, I often seriously contemplated cashing in all for one. More than once, I hoped I could do so to somehow buy the 1949 HRD that has been part of the old bike display for decades at the local HD dealer. When I actually pursued the idea in the late 90's, it was met with a firm "No!"
Then it did happen. In 06-07, everything except the V7 Sport and 74 FLH shovelhead ("our" bike for two-up) went away because I wanted my studio more than a dozen bikes.
Always liked singles very much and still do. Liked lots of others and readily justified owning them to great fault. without exception, all of them were easier to like than ride full time compared to either of these two completely usable & realistic survivors. I miss the now-gone bikes sometimes, but mostly because they were each a deal and a story & came to me before they started to matter ($$$) to other people.
Of course, cool old bikes do have a way of growing back in an empty garage. And I can still go 5 miles down the road and look at the same HRD for free.
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Uh , the type of people who spend that kind of money on a rare or exotic motorbike want it to be either original , restored to orignal , or have some significant provenance , none of which this bike has .
Dusty
This. The tank, carbs, wheels, seat, mudguards. Might have had a lot of money spent on it and it probably goes like stink being a 1200, but unmolested it ain't. :cry:
My bro has a '50 Comet. In the over 50 years he has owned it he has slowly worked through all those little things, which, when they are set up right make it a very special bike to ride. The forks are not a true girder and although not long travel are remarkably compliant. They are subject to wear in the bushes which can affect their performance considerably. I am given to understand that John Britten modeled the Britten forks on the design. Something about the rake/trail not altering under braking.
During an AJS/Matchless rally I went on we were scrambling up a goat track type farm road out in the boonies when bro flew past the three of us two up going like the clappers, but still making the pop pop pop they they made. No way we going solo could keep up.
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The engine in the Rollie Free bike was a Black Lightening motor which was based on the Picador project , which was an engine built for use in drones. Caged rod bearings instead of lose ball , higher compression , bumpier cams , etc . Probably most Vinnies running today have engines which are a blend of Lightening spec with softer tuning . Interestingly enough , that LSR Vinnie ran faster at a later time , but the sanctioning body made him wear protective gear , and he wasn't stretched out on a piece of plywood , so the pictures aren't as , er , dramatic :laugh: Memory says it ran 155. something , of course all of this was running dope , not straight race gas .
Dusty
I believe the classic run of Rollie stretched out was 148 MPH....Rules at Bonneville back then were quite different than today and I have no idea what what was in the fuel tank....
Three bikes on my list are a Crocker, Brough Superior SS100 and Vincent.....I will never own any of those, so I have to be content with my Ducatis
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Sounds like a different currency might have better completed the transaction.....
After I get the Time Machine properly calibrated I am going back with hookers and blow to renegotiate . The guy who bought the discounted Vincent was a neighbor so I would walk over to his garage and admire his collection.
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There's an article and pictures by Corey Levenson in the January 2019 edition of ,Motorcycle Classics', page 19. Among other things Mr. Levenson starts off with a few paragraphs regarding 'Big Sid Biberman'. Big Sid was renowned for Vincent restorations, performance mods & a racer himself. I'd bet Charlie knew him, geographically speaking.
2 Guzzi 'heavy' things: Melissa Pierson gifted me the book, authored by Big Sid's son. It's about Sid's Comet single. Corey Levenson has photographed Dave Roper many times.
All Good! Happy Holidays everyone. R3~
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--- The forks are not a true girder and although not long travel are remarkably compliant. They are subject to wear in the bushes which can affect their performance considerably. I am given to understand that John Britten modeled the Britten forks on the design. Something about the rake/trail not altering under braking---
The bushes in my Comet looked ok but the shafts seemed to be eaten out in the bearing area as though by corrosion or electrolysis.
they are a very solid arrangement.
I particularly like that you could remove either wheel without tools (apart from something to remove the clip off the chain link)
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Coming up at the MECUM auction in Vegas next month...("Oh my!!!") :shocked: :huh: :rolleyes: :thumb: :cool:
A Vincent for EVERYONE's taste!! Just bring the BIG CHECKBOOK!! :laugh: :grin: :wink:
The Egli Vincent would definitely be one I'd buy with my Power Ball or Mega Millions winnings.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZEkxfZR.jpg)
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Since we are talking Vincent, here's some porn
(https://i.ibb.co/pnstNYH/CIMG5580.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/372tTk0/CIMG5581.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Xz8Zwc4/CIMG5582.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/bmyYF5c/CIMG5583.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/h2gZWFm/CIMG5584.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/h7ZMBLK/Vincent-Devil.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/qMwsfWm/CIMG3222.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/JjWxfC9/CIMG3223.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/NSgrcBC/CIMG3224.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/DL4ns07/CIMG3225.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/sCxQ0Fb/CIMG3226.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/qmscYVR/CIMG4087.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/m47GLpd/CIMG4088.jpg)
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I've never had the privilege of even seeing a Vincent in real life but I do have an old memory on the subject. 50+ years ago, I was 14 at the time, some buddies and I were sitting on our bikes taking a break from trial ridding. I was on my 65cc Honda scrambler. One of the guys started a conversation about the faster bike in the world, a Vincent Black Shadow. I'll never forget the conversation as he was very descriptive, being 14 years old himself, and made it sound unbelievable, the shear speed of the monster Vincent. Great youth memory's. The next best thing of my Vincent memories would be when the song "1952 Vincent black Lighting" came out of some called it "Red Molly". Google it and listen, great old song about that great bike. Click on to hear, it's fun!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fpwlae4ZYc
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Try Googling the original by Richard Thompson
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Vincent_Black_Lightn
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Sorry, but I just can't get into motorcycle songs by non-motorcyclists.
On my Vincent ride, half of it was on the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina. I stopped at a couple of overlooks, and both times I heard the same thing from people.
"Wow, is that a Vincent, really?" they'd say.
"Yes, it is. Not mine, though, I'm sorry to say".
"Well what kind is it?"
"It's a 1951 Vincent Rapide."
"Oh yeah? Now I'll tell you what you REALLY should have, and that's a 1952 Black Lightning. Yes sir, that's what you really need ... " and they wouldn't even look at the Rapide any more ....
One country song made them experts on the things ....
Lannis
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The Black Lightning I don't think ever came out in road trim. I guess you could easily make one road legal though.
The Black Shadow certainly did though.
My bro's manual has the list of options to take your factory ordered Black Lightening up to about 145mph out of the crate (but not in road trim) :evil:
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Sorry, but I just can't get into motorcycle songs by non-motorcyclists.
On my Vincent ride, half of it was on the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina. I stopped at a couple of overlooks, and both times I heard the same thing from people.
"Wow, is that a Vincent, really?" they'd say.
"Yes, it is. Not mine, though, I'm sorry to say".
"Well what kind is it?"
"It's a 1951 Vincent Rapide."
"Oh yeah? Now I'll tell you what you REALLY should have, and that's a 1952 Black Lightning. Yes sir, that's what you really need ... " and they wouldn't even look at the Rapide any more ....
One country song made them experts on the things ....
Lannis
Mr. Thompson would be somewhat amazed at being described as a country music artist.
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If I ever win THE LOTTERY, I certainly would add one of THESE to the list!!! A Patrick Godet (R.I.P.) Egli-Vincent!! :thumb: :smiley: :cool:
Custom examples like these STARTED at $85,000 and up!! :shocked: :shocked: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
(https://i.ibb.co/vvt2Y2W/Screen-Shot-2018-12-21-at-4-21-10-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/vvt2Y2W)
(https://i.ibb.co/g7y61mM/Screen-Shot-2018-12-21-at-4-20-52-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/g7y61mM)
(https://i.ibb.co/4FRBrrb/Screen-Shot-2018-12-21-at-4-20-33-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/4FRBrrb)
(https://i.ibb.co/MpGX1Rh/Screen-Shot-2018-12-21-at-4-20-15-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/MpGX1Rh)
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Mr. Thompson would be somewhat amazed at being described as a country music artist.
Well, I don't know if HE is or not (he's a mighty fine guitarist), but that song has been covered by a bunch of country and bluegrass bands over the years, and I suspect that the people that are talking to me about it heard it in between a couple of dead-woman and drunk-and-broke songs on the radio ....
Lannis
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Tried listening to the song and didn't make it to the chorus... 2 thumbs down.
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Sorry, but I just can't get into motorcycle songs by non-motorcyclists.
On my Vincent ride, half of it was on the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina. I stopped at a couple of overlooks, and both times I heard the same thing from people.
"Wow, is that a Vincent, really?" they'd say.
"Yes, it is. Not mine, though, I'm sorry to say".
"Well what kind is it?"
"It's a 1951 Vincent Rapide."
"Oh yeah? Now I'll tell you what you REALLY should have, and that's a 1952 Black Lightning. Yes sir, that's what you really need ... " and they wouldn't even look at the Rapide any more ....
One country song made them experts on the things ....
Lannis
Just curious Lannis, how do you know that all of the guys who did the song were "Non Motorcyclist"🤔
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I’ve seen Richard Thompson a good half dozen times, this song is defiantly a crowd pleaser.
1952 Vincent Black Lightning
Song by Richard Thompson
Says Red Molly, to James, "Well that's a fine motorbike.
A girl could feel special on any such like."
Says James, to Red Molly, "My hat's off to you.
It's a Vincent Black Lightning, 1952.
And I've seen you on the corners and cafes, it seems.
Red hair and black leather, my favorite color scheme."
And he pulled her on behind,
And down to Boxhill,
They'd Ride.
Says James, to Red Molly, "Here's a ring for your right hand.
But I'll tell you in earnest I'm a dangerous man;
For I've fought with the law since I was seventeen.
I've robbed many a man to get my Vincent machine.
And now I'm twenty-one years, I might make twenty-two.
And I don't mind dyin' but for the love of you.
But if fate should break my stride, then I'll give you my Vincent, To Ride."
"Come down Red Molly, " called Sargent McQuade.
"For they've taken young James Aidee for Armed Robbery.
Shotgun blast hit his chest, left nothing inside.
Oh, come down, Red Molly, to his dying bedside."
When she came to the hospital, there wasn't much left.
He was runnin' out of road. He was runnin' out of breath.
But he smiled, to see her cry.
And said, "I'll give you my Vincent.
To Ride."
Said James, "In my opinion, there's nothing in this world
Beats a '52 Vincent and a Redheaded girl.
Now Nortons and Indians and Greavses won't do.
Oh, they don't have a Soul like a Vincent '52."
Well he reached for her hand and he slipped her the keys.
He said, "I've got no further use...for these.
I see Angels on Ariels in leather and chrome,
Swoopin' down from Heaven to carry me home."
And he gave her one last kiss and died.
And he gave her his Vincent.
To Ride.
1952 Vincent Black Lightning lyrics © BMG Rights Management
“Interviewed in the 2003 BBC Four documentary Solitary Life, Thompson said: "When I was a kid, that was always the exotic bike, that was always the one, the one that you went "ooh, wow". I'd always been looking for English ideas that didn't sound corny, that had some romance to them, and around which you could pin a song. And this song started with a motorcycle, it started with the Vincent. It was a good lodestone around which the song could revolve"
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I’ve seen Richard Thompson a good half dozen times, this song is defiantly a crowd pleaser.
1952 Vincent Black Lightning
Song by Richard Thompson
Says Red Molly, to James, "Well that's a fine motorbike.
A girl could feel special on any such like."
Says James, to Red Molly, "My hat's off to you.
It's a Vincent Black Lightning, 1952.
And I've seen you on the corners and cafes, it seems.
Red hair and black leather, my favorite color scheme."
And he pulled her on behind,
And down to Boxhill,
They'd Ride.
Says James, to Red Molly, "Here's a ring for your right hand.
But I'll tell you in earnest I'm a dangerous man;
For I've fought with the law since I was seventeen.
I've robbed many a man to get my Vincent machine.
And now I'm twenty-one years, I might make twenty-two.
And I don't mind dyin' but for the love of you.
But if fate should break my stride, then I'll give you my Vincent, To Ride."
"Come down Red Molly, " called Sargent McQuade.
"For they've taken young James Aidee for Armed Robbery.
Shotgun blast hit his chest, left nothing inside.
Oh, come down, Red Molly, to his dying bedside."
When she came to the hospital, there wasn't much left.
He was runnin' out of road. He was runnin' out of breath.
But he smiled, to see her cry.
And said, "I'll give you my Vincent.
To Ride."
Said James, "In my opinion, there's nothing in this world
Beats a '52 Vincent and a Redheaded girl.
Now Nortons and Indians and Greavses won't do.
Oh, they don't have a Soul like a Vincent '52."
Well he reached for her hand and he slipped her the keys.
He said, "I've got no further use...for these.
I see Angels on Ariels in leather and chrome,
Swoopin' down from Heaven to carry me home."
And he gave her one last kiss and died.
And he gave her his Vincent.
To Ride.
1952 Vincent Black Lightning lyrics © BMG Rights Management
“Interviewed in the 2003 BBC Four documentary Solitary Life, Thompson said: "When I was a kid, that was always the exotic bike, that was always the one, the one that you went "ooh, wow". I'd always been looking for English ideas that didn't sound corny, that had some romance to them, and around which you could pin a song. And this song started with a motorcycle, it started with the Vincent. It was a good lodestone around which the song could revolve"
If one likes that type of bluegrass music they really like this song, if not they won't. Personally, I have listened to it for decades and always enjoy it when I hear it. I also always thought it was cool that they mentioned all the other popular bikes of the day. Thanks for the words as I play that type of music and will work on it.
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Just curious Lannis, how do you know that all of the guys who did the song were "Non Motorcyclist"🤔
Don't know about "all the guys that did the song", could be some in there.
First of all, MOST people aren't motorcyclists so you can bet that way most of the time. Second, it's written as a love lost ballad or whatever, and doesn't feel like someone who's really into motorcycles wrote it.
Same feeling as when I read Hunter Thompson; some of his writing is pretty funny. I think it's clear, though, that he's trying to represent himself as a motorcyclist, but it's not fooling people who have lived with them their whole lives. His account of buying and riding "one giant motorcycle for myself", a 650 BSA, is proof enough of that.
After a lifetime of this, I'm betting on my experience vs. theirs .... ! Your mileage may vary, professional driver on a closed course, is known by the state of California to cause cancer ....
Lannis
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Don't know about "all the guys that did the song", could be some in there.
First of all, MOST people aren't motorcyclists so you can bet that way most of the time. Second, it's written as a love lost ballad or whatever, and doesn't feel like someone who's really into motorcycles wrote it.
Same feeling as when I read Hunter Thompson; some of his writing is pretty funny. I think it's clear, though, that he's trying to represent himself as a motorcyclist, but it's not fooling people who have lived with them their whole lives. His account of buying and riding "one giant motorcycle for myself", a 650 BSA, is proof enough of that.
After a lifetime of this, I'm betting on my experience vs. theirs .... ! Your mileage may vary, professional driver on a closed course, is known by the state of California to cause cancer ....
Lannis
Lol brother, I'll give you credit for one thing for sure, you definitely have the ability to read between the lines :)
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I wonder why some manufacturer never brought the Vincent back the way they have did Triumph and Indians. It's obvious they are no where the same bikes they were back in the day. Wouldn't a modern day Vincent of that style and looks with modern technology be great.
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I wonder why some manufacturer never brought the Vincent back the way they have did Triumph and Indians. It's obvious they are no where the same bikes they were back in the day. Wouldn't a modern day Vincent of that style and looks with modern technology be great.
It has been tried on a small scale a couple of times , unfortunately in the modern world it takes someone like John Bloor to start a motorbike company from scratch that is viable .
Dusty
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I wonder why some manufacturer never brought the Vincent back the way they have did Triumph and Indians. It's obvious they are no where the same bikes they were back in the day. Wouldn't a modern day Vincent of that style and looks with modern technology be great.
Someone tried, but the engine ( Honda RC51) went out of production, then he died in a crash:
"In 1994 a man called Bernard Li bought the rights to the Vincent name and spent over $2 million developing a new, modern Vincent. The bike was to be powered by the Honda RC51 V-twin engine and was styled very much in the spirit of the 1955 Black Shadow, interest in the marque was extremely high however before production began Bernard Li was tragically killed in a motorcycle accident in Arizona.
Today the Vincent brand lies in ruins, the web address has expired and been taken over by a Google link farm, the prototypes Bernard developed were sold onto collectors and any hope of a resurrection seems a lost cause."
https://silodrome.com/author/benjamin/
(https://i.ibb.co/z7fWYdG/vincent-black-shadow.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z7fWYdG)
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I'm glad the RC51 Vincent never came to be. There's something just not right with that. On the other hand, the Irving Vincents hit all of my buttons.
https://www.irvingvincent.com/ (https://www.irvingvincent.com/)
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Bring back Vincent? The Vincent was a machine of it's time...The old Indian and Triumph were machines of their time and the new ones share zero with the old ones except the name...You want a new Vincent? Buy a Ducati...... :wink:
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Lol brother, I'll give you credit for one thing for sure, you definitely have the ability to read between the lines :)
So do you. You couldn't have survived a career as a law enforcement officer if you couldn't "read between the lines".
When you stopped someone in a car on a lonely North Carolina backroad, the only "lines" you had were "20-something tattooed white male in an old Toyota license plate ALB-113". That was it.
Everything else was reading BETWEEN the lines. "He's nervous. Keeps looking over in the passenger floorboard. Doesn't give the same answers to the same questions. Has a bulge in his beltline on the right hip. Dilated pupils .... " and so on. None of what you are seeing "between the lines" PROVES anything. People can second-guess you and say "But how did you KNOW?"
But you've seen it before a dozen times, and it always means the same thing. And so you act accordingly. If you're wrong in your deduction, then it means an apology or a gig on your record, and you've learned. If you're right, it means you live another day, and a successful arrest, and you've learned again.
That's all I'm doing. I've interacted with thousands of people regarding motorcycles in 48 years, and I find that I'm getting fairly good at "guessing" at the balance of probability ....
Lannis
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Fear and Loathing: On the Campaign Trail '72 (1973)
After Miami the calendar shows a bit of rest on the political front -- but not for me: I have to come back out to California and ride that goddamn fiendish Vincent Black Shadow again, for the road tests. The original plan was to deal with the beast in my off-hours during the California primary coverage, but serious problems developed.
Ten days before the election -- with McGovern apparently so far ahead that most of the press people were looking for ways to avoid covering the final week -- I drove out to Ventura, a satellite town just north of L.A. in the San Fernando Valley, to pick up the bugger and use it to cover the rest of the primary. Greg Jackson, an ABC correspondent who used to race motorcycles, went along with me. We were both curious about this machine. Chris Bunche, editor of Choppers magazine, said it was so fast and terrible that it made the extremely fast Honda 750 seem like a harmless toy.
This proved to be absolutely true. I rode a factory-demo Honda for a while, just to get the feel of being back on a serious road-runner again . . . and it seemed just fine: very quick, very powerful, very easy in the hands, one-touch electric starter. A very civilized machine, in all, and I might even be tempted to buy one if I didn't have the same gut distaste for Hondas that the American Honda management has for Rolling Stone. They don't like the image. "You meet the nicest people on a Honda," they say -- but according to a letter from American Honda to the Rolling Stone ad manager, none of these nicest people have much stomach for a magazine like the Stone.
Which is probably just as well; because if you're a safe, happy, nice, young Republican you probably don't want to read about things like dope, rock music and politics anyway. You want to stick with Time, and for weekend recreation do a bit of the laid-back street-cruising on your big fast Honda 750. . . maybe burn a Sportster or a Triumph here or there, just for the fun of it: But nothing serious, because when you start that kind of thing you don't meet many nice people.
Jesus! Another tangent, and right up front, this time -- the whole lead, in fact, completely fucked.
-------------------------
But first things first. We were talking about motorcycles. Jackson and I were out there in Ventura f***ing around with a 750 Honda and an experimental prototype of the new Vincent -- a 1000-cc brute that proved to be so awesomely fast that I didn't even have time to get scared of it before I found myself coming up on a highway stoplight at ninety miles an hour and then skidding halfway through the intersection with both wheel-brakes locked.
A genuinely hellish bike. Second gear peaks around 65 -- cruising speed on the freeways -- and third winds out somewhere between 95 and 100. I never got to fourth, which takes you up to 120 or so -- and after that you shift into fifth.
Top speed is 140, more or less, depending on how the thing is tuned -- but there is nowhere in Los Angeles County to run a bike like that. I managed to get it back from Ventura to McGovern's downtown headquarters hotel, staying mainly in second gear, but the vibration almost fused my wrist bones and boiling oil from the breather pipes turned my right foot completely black. Later, when I tried to start it up for another test-run, the backlash from the kick-starter almost broke my leg. For two days afterward I limped around with a golfball-sized blood-bruise in my right arch.
Later in the week I tried the bastard again, but it stalled on a ramp leading up to the Hollywood Freeway and I almost broke my hand when I exploded in a stupid, screaming rage and punched the gas tank. After that I locked it up and left it in the hotel parking lot -- where it sat for many days with a MCGOVERN FOR PRESIDENT tag on the handlebars.
George never mentioned it, and when I suggested to Gary Hart that the Senator might like to take the machine out for a quick test-ride and some photos for the national press, I got almost exactly the same reaction that Mankiewicz laid on me in Florida when I suggested that McGovern could pick up a million or so votes by inviting the wire-service photographers to come out and snap him lounging around on the beach with a can of beer in his hand and wearing my Grateful Dead T-shirt.
(https://flavorwire.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/thompson.jpg)
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Sounds about right. Among other things, he got his 650 BSA up to 80 in second gear, too ....
Like he'd know. At 8000 RPM on a stock BSA, Samuel Smith himself couldn't read the Magnetic speedometer on that bike, assuming a con-rod hadn't taken it off the forks first ....
Lannis
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So do you. You couldn't have survived a career as a law enforcement officer if you couldn't "read between the lines".
When you stopped someone in a car on a lonely North Carolina backroad, the only "lines" you had were "20-something tattooed white male in an old Toyota license plate ALB-113". That was it.
Everything else was reading BETWEEN the lines. "He's nervous. Keeps looking over in the passenger floorboard. Doesn't give the same answers to the same questions. Has a bulge in his beltline on the right hip. Dilated pupils .... " and so on. None of what you are seeing "between the lines" PROVES anything. People can second-guess you and say "But how did you KNOW?"
But you've seen it before a dozen times, and it always means the same thing. And so you act accordingly. If you're wrong in your deduction, then it means an apology or a gig on your record, and you've learned. If you're right, it means you live another day, and a successful arrest, and you've learned again.
That's all I'm doing. I've interacted with thousands of people regarding motorcycles in 48 years, and I find that I'm getting fairly good at "guessing" at the balance of probability ....
Lannis
All true my friend 👍
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Sounds about right. Among other things, he got his 650 BSA up to 80 in second gear, too ....
Like he'd know. At 8000 RPM on a stock BSA, Samuel Smith himself couldn't read the Magnetic speedometer on that bike, assuming a con-rod hadn't taken it off the forks first ....
Lannis
but it's a helluva good story anyway ya cut it :evil:
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but it's a helluva good story anyway ya cut it :evil:
If he didn't tell good stories, I wouldn't be reading him ... ! All this time on the road has made me overly picky about the details, I suppose ....
Lannis