Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: unionguy on April 15, 2021, 05:41:39 PM

Title: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: unionguy on April 15, 2021, 05:41:39 PM
Hello All--Picked up my 2nd ever motorcycle yesterday and my first Moto Guzzi, a V85TT and I love it so far.  Quick question that I couldn't find a clear answer online:  is the engine limited in its performance during the 900 mile break in period and then those limits go away after the first service?  thanks!
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: TheHungarian on April 15, 2021, 07:42:52 PM
I'm not sure about MG's recommended break-in process for the V85, but I'd caution you to NOT go easy on the motor during break in. I bought a low mileage V7 that's suffered from oil in the airbox (excessive blow-by) since I've had it and it's now in the shop getting a new top end. Possibly related to the dark art of the rings not seating properly during break in due to a "limp wristed" original owner.
I only know that when I retrieve the bike, I intend to thoroughly flog the new engine properly so that there's no doubt the new rings are seated. YMMV

Mike

Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: kingoffleece on April 15, 2021, 07:56:28 PM
Not saying the rings are not bad but oil blow by in V7's is well know to be a result of excess oil on sump.
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: egschade on April 15, 2021, 08:12:52 PM
Technically the engine is not limited. What Guzzi does is to set the shift warning light to a lower value (4750 RPM?) so that you are reminded not to over rev the engine during their recommended break in period. After the first service you just change the shift light to the true redline.

I run the engine normally, including hard acceleration, but try to stay inside that lower limit. Was the same with my new V7 III and it's shift light. I never had a problem with oil blow by but I also knew not to overfill the engine oil (middle of dipstick).

There are lots of ideas and approaches to engine break-in. Some say 'ride it like you stole it' but I prefer to do what the Guzzi engineers recommend. As we like to say in the IT world: IITFM (It's In The F'ing Manual).
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: TheHungarian on April 15, 2021, 08:44:30 PM
I won't hijack this man's thread but regarding sump oil level, I've had a thread running on here since last July concerning this issue. My V7 blew oil into the airbox with as little as 1.4L of oil in the sump. All other avenues were explored. It's a top-end issue. Carry on.

Mike
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: unionguy on April 15, 2021, 10:26:58 PM
Thanks all, very helpful! That's what I needed to know for now.
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: John Croucher on April 15, 2021, 11:35:45 PM
I rode a demo bike at the Kentucky Rally.  It was broke in when I returned it. 

Question, why do motorcycles need to be "broke in",  but new cars/trucks are never broke in?

Ride it like you stole it.  You will probably sell it before it has 10,000 miles on it.
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: Huzo on April 16, 2021, 03:36:50 AM
Ride it like you stole it.  You will probably sell it before it has 10,000 miles on it.
 
Well, he wouldn’t be the only one guilty of that crime around here. But why throw that barb ?
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: Perazzimx14 on April 16, 2021, 04:35:55 AM
I rode a demo bike at the Kentucky Rally.  It was broke in when I returned it. 

Question, why do motorcycles need to be "broke in",  but new cars/trucks are never broke in?

Ride it like you stole it.  You will probably sell it before it has 10,000 miles on it.

Why do motorcycles need a 600 mile 1st service but a new cars or trucks not until 10,000 miles?

Your last sentence is spot on. Most people do not put on the mileage or keep the bike long enough to realize any minor benefits or detriments from how the motor was run during break in.





Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: egschade on April 16, 2021, 05:55:01 AM
Well, he wouldn’t be the only one guilty of that crime around here. But why throw that barb ?

With you there but I think the point is that modern car manufacturing has obviated the need for any break in period. I know a highly respected German car specialist though who would disagree. He says that all the manufacturers now provide extended maintenance windows and use 'lifetime' lubricants but the number of low-mileage engine failures he sees if markedly higher. 

Most car engines are designed with lower tolerances and specific output than a MC engine and by design will require less maintenance. Consumers of cars won't accept anything less

For my new V85TT, with it's higher performance, higher spec motorcycle engine (especially an Italian one) compared to a car, I will be following the break in rules so that I don't HAVE to rebuild the engine .
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: Perazzimx14 on April 16, 2021, 03:54:15 PM
With you there but I think the point is that modern car manufacturing has obviated the need for any break in period. I know a highly respected German car specialist though who would disagree. He says that all the manufacturers now provide extended maintenance windows and use 'lifetime' lubricants but the number of low-mileage engine failures he sees if markedly higher. 

Most car engines are designed with lower tolerances and specific output than a MC engine and by design will require less maintenance. Consumers of cars won't accept anything less

For my new V85TT, with it's higher performance, higher spec motorcycle engine (especially an Italian one) compared to a car, I will be following the break in rules so that I don't HAVE to rebuild the engine .

So you’re pushrod 1920’s tech v85 is more performance than a twin turbo Ford Transit? Don’t fool yourself. Because it’s a motorcycle doesn’t mean it’s high performance.
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: TheHungarian on April 16, 2021, 09:07:47 PM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: redhawk47 on April 17, 2021, 12:12:55 AM
Technically the engine is not limited. What Guzzi does is to set the shift warning light to a lower value (4750 RPM?) so that you are reminded not to over rev the engine during their recommended break in period. After the first service you just change the shift light to the true redline.

I run the engine normally, including hard acceleration, but try to stay inside that lower limit. Was the same with my new V7 III and it's shift light. I never had a problem with oil blow by but I also knew not to overfill the engine oil (middle of dipstick).

There are lots of ideas and approaches to engine break-in. Some say 'ride it like you stole it' but I prefer to do what the Guzzi engineers recommend. As we like to say in the IT world: IITFM (It's In The F'ing Manual).
Yes, keep the RPM below the shift warning light level.  My recommendation is to ride it with "vigor" and vary the speed, preferably on a winding mountain road so you are frequently changing engine speed and load.

Dan
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: egschade on April 17, 2021, 03:58:28 AM
So you’re pushrod 1920’s tech v85 is more performance than a twin turbo Ford Transit? Don’t fool yourself. Because it’s a motorcycle doesn’t mean it’s high performance.
I concede the point that Guzzi uses old technology but I'm not talking about performance - newer automotive engines are incredible and yes, they don't require a break-in period. I'm referring to how the engine is designed and built. Depending on those specs the engineers come up with recommendations on how to properly prepare your engine for a long life.

Folks are free to think and do as they please with following factory guidelines. I change the oil on my turbo Audi when it gets dirty/contaminated which is well before the 'recommended' mileage.  I intend to ride it aggressively but within the break-in rev limit as noted in the manual and will release the Kraken after the initial oil change/service. I'm thinking about doing that a little early as the oil is already starting to turn dark at 450 miles.


(https://i.ibb.co/zfyPrPH/Kraken-Spice-Rum-web.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zfyPrPH)
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: Kev m on April 17, 2021, 06:34:53 AM
Dark oil tells you almost nothing about condition.

$50 says an oil analysis of either will tell you that you've got thousands of miles left if you change it just cause it got dark.
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: kingoffleece on April 17, 2021, 07:07:27 AM
Break-in threads get close to oil threads  :grin:

Cylinder pressure is one of the key concepts.  I'll leave it there.
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: TheHungarian on April 17, 2021, 07:24:46 AM
I concede the point that Guzzi uses old technology but I'm not talking about performance - newer automotive engines are incredible and yes, they don't require a break-in period. I'm referring to how the engine is designed and built. Depending on those specs the engineers come up with recommendations on how to properly prepare your engine for a long life.

Folks are free to think and do as they please with following factory guidelines. I change the oil on my turbo Audi when it gets dirty/contaminated which is well before the 'recommended' mileage.  I intend to ride it aggressively but within the break-in rev limit as noted in the manual and will release the Kraken after the initial oil change/service. I'm thinking about doing that a little early as the oil is already starting to turn dark at 450 miles.


(https://i.ibb.co/zfyPrPH/Kraken-Spice-Rum-web.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zfyPrPH)


Wait. You’re going to release all 80 horsepower’s worth of “Kraken”? At the same time?? You will be good enough to give us all a 20 minute warning so that we have a chance to run for the hills first, won’t you?

Mike
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: Moparnut72 on April 17, 2021, 07:47:00 AM
Dark oil tells you almost nothing about condition.

With my Diesel Ram I wouldn't make it to the end of the driveway.    :evil:  I change when the computer tells me to.
kk
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: egschade on April 17, 2021, 01:41:19 PM
Wait. You’re going to release all 80 horsepower’s worth of “Kraken”? At the same time?? You will be good enough to give us all a 20 minute warning so that we have a chance to run for the hills first, won’t you?

Mike

Did you mean to say 80 Proof? That's what I have in mind  :boozing:
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: TheHungarian on April 17, 2021, 04:40:55 PM
Yes, I saw that. I was just Kraken a joke. Love that word.

Mike
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: elvisboy77 on April 18, 2021, 07:18:53 AM
I concede the point that Guzzi uses old technology but I'm not talking about performance - newer automotive engines are incredible and yes, they don't require a break-in period. I'm referring to how the engine is designed and built. Depending on those specs the engineers come up with recommendations on how to properly prepare your engine for a long life.

Folks are free to think and do as they please with following factory guidelines. I change the oil on my turbo Audi when it gets dirty/contaminated which is well before the 'recommended' mileage.  I intend to ride it aggressively but within the break-in rev limit as noted in the manual and will release the Kraken after the initial oil change/service. I'm thinking about doing that a little early as the oil is already starting to turn dark at 450 miles.


(https://i.ibb.co/zfyPrPH/Kraken-Spice-Rum-web.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zfyPrPH)


In all of these discussions about break in, oils etc I have yet to see a compelling engineering reason for NOT following the manufacturer's instruction.  Lots of opinion, no facts.  As some would say, "If all else fails, read the manual" LOL
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: lorengo70 on April 18, 2021, 12:42:42 PM
Here is a link of a video by mc garage where they take two new engines and flog one and follow the manuals recommendations on the other and then test and take apart the engine to see if there are any changes. Will save you the intrigue. Both look the same afterwards.

https://youtu.be/xpoglovyy_8
Title: Re: V85TT Break In Period Question
Post by: ampm7 on April 18, 2021, 12:56:31 PM
I think the most important factor is changing RPM's and gears frequently. In other words don't go down the freeway and leave it at one static RPM, for very long. Vary engine speed and most 2 lane roads that don't have a lot of traffic are where you can slow down, speed up, change gears frequently for generally the first 600 miles but certainly don't lug the bike. Take it up to the factory limit and decelerate then speed up and do this over and over again.