Group Riding Safety Question

[Cam3512]

I prefer solo, but on occasion will go out with a small group IF I know the riding habits if the leader.  On many occasions I have gone out with a leader (who usually organizes the ride) and he turns into "Ricky Racer" TRYING to leave everyone in the dust.   I've also seen guys crash trying to keep up.  I don't give a flying crap how fast you can ride when 10 bikes are following you on a ride YOU organized!

[hooah54]

I have done only a few  rides with over six bikes... even led one.  Prefer to ride with a group of three or four...you can ride your own ride that way.  Picked some good pointers in this thread

[tiger_one]

Lots of good info in this thread, many miles of riding represented by a bunch of folks.

One other thing, the riders I ride with will not hesitate to point out to someone that they felt did something dangerous.  We don't get old riding bikes being foolish.  Bikes are fun, visiting with folks from areas we go through is also part of the fun, being safe is the most important part of the trip.

If you feel the need for speed, schedule some track days, get some instruction at the track.  You will be surprised how much better you will ride on the streets and most likely slower and safer.

[segesta]

Like boat ownership, picnics, Russian literature and jazz, group riding is a lot more enjoyable in concept than in its reality.

I've been on only two large ones--a Distinguished Gentlemen's Ride, and a Harley-focused charity ride--and I peeled away after about a mile. Slow and dangerous is the opposite of how I like to ride.

[Lannis]

Rule number 1 for all group rides : Everyone starts with an empty bladder and a FULL tank!  Fuel stops are planed with the bike with the shortest range in mind.  At fuel stops everyone should pee and fill up again, so everyone stays in sync.  ....

This is SO hard to enforce, among a group of friends.    You can't "make" people hurry up, or be ready to go.

When you stop, it can be a nightmare.    You THINK everyone's ready to go, but there's one guy still on the hopper, or still topping up his oil.   So when the leader switches his engine off, everyone else does too, then some guys take off their helmets, then ....

.... Then the guy you were waiting for is ready, but now someone ELSE has gone back into the store for something, or his bike won't start, and you have to wait for HIM, and then .....

And if someone breaks down, EVERYONE wants to stop and help, and the shoulder is crowded with bikes, and you get the broken guy going, but now everyone else has to get their gear on, get their bike turned around .....

Alone is best.

Lannis

[johnr]

There was a time when I was living in Auckland that I did a lot of riding with a particular friend. His beautiful BSA Lightning would rumble up my drive before dawn on a Saturday morning and despite my best efforts to continue sleeping off Friday nights excesses I would be shaken into full consciousness with him saying "C'mon, where are we going this weekend?"   It got so that I could be on the road in 15 minutes and we would be having breakfast a couple of hundred miles away.

In general we would ride with enough separation that each was just another vehicle on the road but there were times when we would close up for one reason or another.

Our rule was that the rear bike was responsible for staying clear of the one in front, and,when closed up, the rear bike would ride in the front bikes mirror. That is, so that the rear rider could see the front riders face in the front riders mirror.  That way the rear rider could be sure that the front one knew where he was.

Of course we passed each other from time to time but that was just the same as passing anything else.

[Gliderjohn]

Riding with a group of folks that are competent is great fun . Maybe the best advice is to remind others to check their mirrors on a regular basis . Seems simple , but I have observed many MClists that never ever check behind them , riding as if they are the only one on the road . Situational awareness is paramount to safe MCling .

  Dusty

I am normally not all that much of a fan of group riding but it is really nice and helpful to be able to follow good leads on unfamiliar roads. I really appreciated Dusty, Lowrider, and Rocker 57 leads. The ride through the Talimina, OK Mountains was very enjoyable and though spirited it was comfortable. At any time if I would have felt I was getting in over my head I would have been just fine backing off and also knowing the leads would pull over somewhere ahead and wait if needed. Beautiful area and great riding for a flatlander.
GliderJohn

[Lannis]

There was a time when I was living in Auckland that I did a lot of riding with a particular friend. His beautiful BSA Lightning would rumble up my drive before dawn on a Saturday morning and ........ we would be having breakfast a couple of hundred miles away.

Surprisingly enough, there are those who think that's not really achievable with old Brits ..... But it is, and it's enjoyable, and you don't have to spend more time working on the bike than you do riding it ....

Lannis

[Rich A]

My best group rides were when we'd meet up as a group for breakfast, split up into smaller groups, then get together again later in the day. And even then, the smaller groups would sometimes splinter.
Rich

[LowRyter]

I've ridden with Guzzi groups and faster guys riding sportbikes.  Best is probably 2 to 4 that are riding about the same speed on the same types of bikes.  You're not going to push a group of Calis too fast.  The Spineframe guys break off in two groups, moderate and swift.  Then there are the sports guys I ride with in Arkansas that are on it and about as fast as I want to go.  And then are the fast guys that I don't try to follow.

I've also ridden in huge gaggles (mainly Harleys) in groups of 20 - 200+ riding really slow and scaring me to death.  That Gentleman's ride bunch is just below the danger line of this type.

I remember that Michael D and I were riding our Californias with Al Harris and his friend Eddie (on his Electra Glide) to Ark Rally.  Eddie was so slow that we'd pull over after fifteen minutes of riding apart.  We were lighting our second cigarettes when they got to us.  Now whenever I ride with Al's friends they all have a big laugh when they are joking about Michael and I waiting for Eddie.  I wonder what they would even think about my Arkansas group?

[ed.bremner]

I basically don't do group rides.  Don't enjoy them; think it's needlessly dangerous.

Yup, that is basically me too, but then I don't even 'joy-ride' that much and in nearly 40 years of riding I can't remember riding in a group larger than 2 or 3.  I love riding my bike, and look forwards to it greatly, but pretty much always use it to get me from 'A' to 'B'.  To work...or visit friends....or go shopping or whatever, but can't remember the last time I just went for a ride for the fun of it...

But I guess I have a bit of a question:  Around here in the summer, there seem to be as many 'groups' as single-riders.  The groups always seem to be either riding way faster than me....or way slower.  When they are faster, I just let them go, but am never sure whether to just hold my normal riding line and make them go around....or to slow down, move over and wave them through.  Sometimes I will do one and sometimes the other, depending on conditions, mood etc.

But it is harder when they are slower.   I don't ride the Cali that fast, but I really don't want to dawdle behind a big group of cruisers, nattering away on their intercoms, with flags flying, often really close, even two abreast.  Just not my kind of riding -  spoils the fun.  But never sure of how to get through the group.  I feel uncomfortable sitting within their group and often don't feel that safe.  This can lead to my riding a bit faster than I would normally, to just get through them as soon as possible.  Sometimes I feel they don't like my coming through, which can make it worse.  There can be those feelings of machismo also, from both within me and their group, which adds to the angst. I notice in this situation, that often I am most concerned by bikes acting erratically and wish they would just ride their normal course, rather than slow and wave me through.  All this of course is highly dependent on the group, the conditions, the road etc....

...but I am sure you get the drift.   Thoughts?

eib

[Sasquatch Jim]

 Suffice to say that the phrase, "group riding", and the word, "safety", should not be used in the sam sentence.
 It makes it an oxymoron because of the morons in the group.

[Lannis]

One thing I try to do when encountering them is to act as friendly as possible, giving nods, waves, and thumbs up, so they don't get to aggressive with someone breaking their ranks.  Disarm them, if you will.

The very fact that people riding in "groups" on the bikes they like to ride have to be "disarmed", and you have to grin and smile and bob your head and wave and all that happy horseshyte .... why?    So you won't be assaulted on the road with a deadly weapon by a fellow "motorcyclist"?    Because you passed them on the road, legally?    So you won't get your arse kicked because you "disrespected" them?

Who are those people anyway?   Fellow "bikers"?    "Brothers in the Wind"?    Or small minded criminals on a power trip on the highway?   

Lannis

[Lannis]

Maybe riders without much in the skills and experience department on bikes that aren't set up the best (Ape Hangers and extreme forward controls), that can be a bit intimidated by another bike taking a space they thought was a rigid barrier around them, causing them to fall out of their comfort zone?   

I agree, but are we really concerned that we're going to be beat up by a group of 1%'ers if we pass a random group of apehangers and concho barges on Sunday afternoon?

I remember the viral video of the Harley passing the Winnebago in the mountains and immediately running off the road into a ravine.   On the audio, a girl in the RV asks if they should stop and help.   The driver says "If we stop, they'll kick our asses".

Really?

Lannis

[Bill N]

Rule number one when riding with others. DON'T HIT THE GUY IN FRONT OF YOU!
Bill

[Orange Guzzi]

Most people do not understand the doppler effect of motor vehicles and traffic flow. A rider following the moves of the rider in front of him is always braking and speeding up to keep the same pace as the lead.  The average speed may be the same, but the rider following has a slower average speed and a higher average speed compared to the leader.  Now stack additional riders behind the leader and the spread becomes larger.  If I ride with other riders, I tell them ride your bike and I will ride mine.  Do not try to keep up with me or let me know where we are going and I will be there soon after you arrive.  Like Dad said, you can't push a chain, it will pile up.

[johnr]

Rule number one when riding with others. DON'T HIT THE GUY IN FRONT OF YOU!
Bill

 :1:

[Chuck in Indiana]

Most people do not understand the doppler effect of motor vehicles and traffic flow. A rider following the moves of the rider in front of him is always braking and speeding up to keep the same pace as the lead. The average speed may be the same, but the rider following has a slower average speed and a higher average speed compared to the leader.  Now stack additional riders behind the leader and the spread becomes larger.  If I ride with other riders, I tell them ride your bike and I will ride mine.  Do not try to keep up with me or let me know where we are going and I will be there soon after you arrive.  Like Dad said, you can't push a chain, it will pile up.

Right on, John. When a few of us fly formation, (in airplanes.. ) the fastest airplane is always in the back for this very reason.
 

[oldbike54]

Right on, John. When a few of us fly formation, (in airplanes.. ) the fastest airplane is always in the back for this very reason.

 Chuckie , any problem with airborne gangs doing 65 Knots in a 90 knot zone ? 

  Dusty

[Orange Guzzi]

Chuckie , any problem with airborne gangs doing 65 Knots in a 90 knot zone ? 

  Dusty

Dusty, I don't know about the speeding, but the loud pipes on some of the smaller planes must be saving a lot of lives.

Chuck are there noise ordinance for small aircraft?  I have never heard of any.  I do know that the jets are much more quite than 30 plus years ago. 

[oldbike54]

Dusty, I don't know about the speeding, but the loud pipes on some of the smaller planes must be saving a lot of lives.

Chuck are there noise ordinance for small aircraft?  I have never heard of any.  I do know that the jets are much more quite than 30 plus years ago.

 That's funny OG 

  Dusty

[LowRyter]

No, I really don't worry about a group trying to run me off the road or chase me down and beat me up.  I just try not to be too controversial.  Except of course when talking to Lowryter about Rossi/Marquez and Grom's.   

My meager skills on the mountain roads have deemed me to be labeled to ride in the "Grom's class".

And as I say, there are the fast guys that I just let go and I ride my own ride.   

[oldbike54]

My meager skills on the mountain roads have deemed me to be labeled to ride in the "Grom's class".

And as I say, there are the fast guys that I just let go and I ride my own ride.   

 You do just fine Johnny  No such thing as an old stupid motorbike rider ...

  Dusty

[LowRyter]

You do just fine Johnny  No such thing as an old stupid motorbike rider ...

  Dusty

you haven't ridden with me in the mountains

[oldbike54]

you haven't ridden with me in the mountains

 Your memory is getting short 

  Dusty

[Chuck in Indiana]

 

Chuckie , any problem with airborne gangs doing 65 Knots in a 90 knot zone ? 

Yep, Mouser stalls at 62.. 

Chuck are there noise ordinance for small aircraft?  I have never heard of any.  I do know that the jets are much more quite than 30 plus years ago.

Not yet.. in the US. When we visited England several years ago, there was a noise limit at the aerodrome. After so many operations the airport was closed. (!) There were villages you couldn't fly over. That sort of thing. Much of what you hear from small aircraft is propeller noise. Not much you can do about that.

[oldbike54]

Can't call that "parade" over Talihina drive "riding in the mountains"!   

I've led and followed John several times, just the two of us, through NW Arkansas and SW Missouri.  He's no "Yellow God" (to repeat a phrase), but he ain't slow by any standards either.   

 OK then , I promise not to hold back next time , didn't want to get you flatlanders in over your heads  Heck , I'll ride the /5 just to make it fair ...

  Dusty

[Triple Jim]

I do think it would be a blast to get the gang at a go-cart track with a bunch of Groms!   

What's your location?  Some friends and I have semi-regular track days at the go-kart/supermoto track at Virginia International Raceway.  Groms would be fine.  I take my DT100, and most of the others are supermotos.

[oldbike54]

What's your location?  Some friends and I have semi-regular track days at the go-kart/supermoto track at Virginia International Raceway.  Groms would be fine.  I take my DT100, and most of the others are supermotos.

 About 1500 miles West of you Jim  Maybe some enterprising (read as crazy) person could open a small track and rent out Groms ... 

  Dusty

[Triple Jim]

Thanks Dusty.  Seems like the "location" slots in the members' profiles haven't recovered since the board upgrade.