Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: toddhaven on August 18, 2011, 05:37:40 PM

Title: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: toddhaven on August 18, 2011, 05:37:40 PM
Quote
OK guys  there have been a lot of postings about  this problem, and a few good fixes.  They all involve some fiddling with wiring, a topic that many are not comfortable doing.  The cause is known to those of us who have posted fixes, the trouble has been finding a way for the home DIY Guzzi guy to make his bike reliable.
I rarely feel that adding parts to a system is the best way to make it more reliable, but in this case it is.
MPH has sourced the connectors needed to make a plug and play voltage supply relay kit available.
Installation is  as simple as can be , unplug your starter relay,  plug in the harness, attach the removed relay to the harness, zip tie the OE removed relay to the supplied relay, and connect the 2 eyelets to the battery.  We are using the  well known Bosch relay and a Mini ATC fuse holder .   In the rare event of a failure of any part of this system, you can unplug it all and be stock again in seconds.
-Mike Haven

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y114/toddhaven/DSC02018.jpg)

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y114/toddhaven/DSC02023.jpg)

This kit looks like it will sell for about $40 shipped in the US.
W have enough supplies on hand to make a few, but we are wondering how much call there will be for these.
Any volume production will take a few weeks to get ramped up.

Any interest?
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: ohiorider on August 18, 2011, 05:47:17 PM
Todd - this would also address potential 1200 Sport Startus Interruptus, right?  Any interest? Yes .... if my 1200 Sport has the same potential problem as the B11 and N12, and I suspect it does.  Matter of fact, if my 1200 Sport is prone to the same issue, bill my credit card (on file .... you should also have my mailing address), and ship the kit to me ...... but don't ship until at least Sept 10th ...... we'll be checking out Glacier Nat'l Park and other places of interest far from Hudson, Ohio.

Bob
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: blackcat on August 18, 2011, 05:52:26 PM
I'll take one. You have my credit card so just send it when you are up and running. Just PM me for shipping to FL or NY.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: actwin on August 18, 2011, 06:22:46 PM
 Yea I'll take one too, send me a PM and I'll give you all my info. Thanks for helping us out.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Crusty on August 18, 2011, 07:01:11 PM
I'm interested.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: gsf12man on August 18, 2011, 07:19:03 PM
I will very likely buy one too.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Slygrin on August 18, 2011, 07:50:27 PM
I'm in for one when they're ready.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Frank Smith on August 18, 2011, 07:56:32 PM
Damn, now I want to find a clean B or Norhay just to fix it with one of these kits.  I do have affection for simple aftermarket solutions and addictions.  Good job on those, Mike!
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Kev m on August 18, 2011, 08:05:40 PM
Looks like a good product and good value for those that want any easy solution.  Good job guys  ;-T
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Nick on August 18, 2011, 08:08:49 PM
Like BC stated:

"I'll take one. You have my credit card so just send it when you are up and running."

Nick
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: toddhaven on August 18, 2011, 09:51:35 PM
Yes, it will also work on 1200 Sport.
We had to do this to one 05 Breva 750.
This kit will also address that same issue on B750, but we have only seen one occurrence, so I can't push it real hard.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: kitze2 on August 18, 2011, 10:14:36 PM
I'll take one also.

I haven't heard about this being an issue on the SBs.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: healeyblue on August 18, 2011, 11:09:58 PM
Add another to your list.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jreagan on August 19, 2011, 07:13:06 AM
Sure.  Sign me up.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Mike Craven on August 19, 2011, 09:55:38 AM
I'll take one kit eventually.  I'll wait to add with another order.  Thanks.
Mike  L-715
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: blackbuell on August 19, 2011, 10:29:00 AM
Put me on your list,

Jon Hastings
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: ajonen on August 19, 2011, 11:15:09 AM
I would order one, but the fix was so easy I already did it myself. 
I can tell you buying the parts needed from autozone was about $20.  So $40 for a simple solution should sell very quickly.  ESPECIALLY if instructions are included. 
My mantra is a tool/software/product is only as useful as its documentation.

Very cool.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: mphcycles on August 19, 2011, 11:49:23 AM
  After some peer review I have modified the  part to eliminate the relay.  I put it there because of the low Kl.15 voltage  I measured  on all the bikes. I have seen as much as a 6V drop on this circuit.  Maybe I am over thinking it a bit.  I hate voltage drops on anything.
  It seems that Wayne's fixes have not seen any other effects of that low voltage, and this new set up simply addresses the low voltage to the start relay and not  supplementing  the whole bikes Kl 15 , ignition on circuit.  This is much simpler to make and uses less parts, so we can offer it for less $$ .  its gets you the same result of a reliable starter operation, but wont have any effect on anything else. (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac131/somedudefromhouston/relayresized.jpg)
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Dean Rose on August 19, 2011, 12:00:09 PM
I'll take one. Sell them to the factory.

Dean
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Wayne Orwig on August 19, 2011, 12:16:59 PM
  After some peer review I have modified the  part to eliminate the relay.  I put it there because of the low Kl.15 voltage  I measured  on all the bikes. I have seen as much as a 6V drop on this circuit.  Maybe I am over thinking it a bit.  I hate voltage drops on anything.
  It seems that Wayne's fixes have not seen any other effects of that low voltage, and this new set up simply addresses the low voltage to the start relay and not  supplementing  the whole bikes Kl 15 , ignition on circuit.  This is much simpler to make and uses less parts, so we can offer it for less $$ .  its gets you the same result of a reliable starter operation, but wont have any effect on anything else. (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac131/somedudefromhouston/relayresized.jpg)

Even though I usually prefer a simple solution. Your original idea with the relay to unload the ignition switch circuit is a pretty good idea too.

Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: DanR on August 19, 2011, 12:29:39 PM
Since I did the Orwig fix to my Norge which I will be selling shortly it is not needed however has anyone heard of a Griso suffering the same condition ? I would be interested if they will become or are trouble prone.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: mphcycles on August 19, 2011, 12:37:46 PM
 Yes Dan we have had Griso's do it too.  The CARC  bikes and the B 750 all use the same setup on the start relay
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jreagan on August 19, 2011, 12:41:35 PM
  After some peer review I have modified the  part to eliminate the relay.  I put it there because of the low Kl.15 voltage  I measured  on all the bikes. I have seen as much as a 6V drop on this circuit.  Maybe I am over thinking it a bit.  I hate voltage drops on anything.
  It seems that Wayne's fixes have not seen any other effects of that low voltage, and this new set up simply addresses the low voltage to the start relay and not  supplementing  the whole bikes Kl 15 , ignition on circuit.  This is much simpler to make and uses less parts, so we can offer it for less $$ .  its gets you the same result of a reliable starter operation, but wont have any effect on anything else. (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac131/somedudefromhouston/relayresized.jpg)

So this is more like the current solution floated around on the forums, yes?  (other than the yellow wire cutting/splicing - replaced with the removable harness)

Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Kev m on August 19, 2011, 12:49:59 PM
 After some peer review I have modified the  part to eliminate the relay.  I put it there because of the low Kl.15 voltage  I measured  on all the bikes. I have seen as much as a 6V drop on this circuit.  Maybe I am over thinking it a bit.  I hate voltage drops on anything.
  It seems that Wayne's fixes have not seen any other effects of that low voltage, and this new set up simply addresses the low voltage to the start relay and not  supplementing  the whole bikes Kl 15 , ignition on circuit.  This is much simpler to make and uses less parts, so we can offer it for less $$ .  its gets you the same result of a reliable starter operation, but wont have any effect on anything else. (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac131/somedudefromhouston/relayresized.jpg)

So this is more like the current solution floated around on the forums, yes?  (other than the yellow wire cutting/splicing - replaced with the removable harness)



I believe it is, but in a more elegant plug-n-play version!  ;-T
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: DanR on August 19, 2011, 01:05:14 PM
Yes Dan we have had Griso's do it too.  The CARC  bikes and the B 750 all use the same setup on the start relay

You got my card, send one when you can. BTW Thank you for overnighting the Griso Tank bag to me in North Carolina, got it in time.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Adk.IBO on August 19, 2011, 01:42:38 PM
Please post when they're ready with a firm price and I can see me in on it.
                    Thanks,
                     John
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: gsf12man on August 19, 2011, 01:50:27 PM
I'll change my "likely" to "definitely" as soon as you are good to go on it.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: rodekyll on August 19, 2011, 03:09:22 PM
I prefer the relay version, but then, I likes me my relays.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jreagan on August 19, 2011, 04:12:31 PM
Sure.  I'm still in with the new revised adapter (ie, no extra relay).  I have the wire/fuse-holder on my workbench (too lazy to install), but I like the plug-n-play (plus I get to support the community).
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: DRM 53 on August 19, 2011, 05:34:34 PM
If this will work on an '04 Breva 750 also,I'll take one too.Wife blew a couple 10 amp fuses last week trying to start it,she put in a 15 amp.I had been searching for Mike's solution,thought it was for the 750 and searched it that way.Nice timing, Thanks !
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: mphcycles on August 19, 2011, 06:34:59 PM
 We will have a batch of 8 ready to ship on Monday of the version with no relay.  I had to upgrade my used bikes dept first!
  25 bux shipped in the CONUS.
 I have more components on order and we will make more when they arrive next week.  It was a test  balloon,  and I see you guys want  it.  So we will do it,  and ship them out as ASAP.
 The relay does serve a purpose, my bike would get the relay because of the voltage drop noted.
Several guys have already done the mods as posted before. The idea here is to make it  as easy and not scary as it can be made.  If you are OK with wiring mods, you don't need this, if you don't relish  cutting wire on your bike , you can use it.  Its not rocket surgery but it does work. 
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Frank Smith on August 19, 2011, 07:43:58 PM
We want to see rocket surgery!  Dammit!
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: ken farr on August 19, 2011, 09:44:54 PM
Yeah, well Rocket Surgery ain't nothin' compared to Brain Science.




( or something like that )


 ;D


kjf
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Crusty on August 20, 2011, 04:32:43 AM
I can't decide whether I want to be a Brain Surgeon or a Soda Jerk.  Jethro on The Beverly Hillbillies ca. 1964
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: PICKLEKOOKEN on August 20, 2011, 09:30:07 PM
Ill take one too Mike left me know when you get downto my name Pic.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Brian UK on August 21, 2011, 03:47:35 AM
  After some peer review I have modified the  part to eliminate the relay.  I put it there because of the low Kl.15 voltage  I measured  on all the bikes. I have seen as much as a 6V drop on this circuit.  Maybe I am over thinking it a bit.  I hate voltage drops on anything.
  It seems that Wayne's fixes have not seen any other effects of that low voltage, and this new set up simply addresses the low voltage to the start relay and not  supplementing  the whole bikes Kl 15 , ignition on circuit.  This is much simpler to make and uses less parts, so we can offer it for less $$ .  its gets you the same result of a reliable starter operation, but wont have any effect on anything else.
I suspect that when you put this version in place, you won't see the voltage drop on the other part of the ignition circuit. I believe the drop was caused by the high current required by the starter solenoid being routed through the ignition switch, which this latest version avoids.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: mphcycles on August 21, 2011, 05:11:43 AM
 The simple version will be the only one  offerred.  Simple is good, 20 bux US shipped in CONUS.  Should start going out next week.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: blackbuell on August 21, 2011, 06:36:08 AM
Mike,

You should have my address and card on record. Please send me one.

Jon Hastings
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: old head on August 21, 2011, 08:20:46 AM
Mike,

I'll take one also,

Old Head
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Crusty on August 21, 2011, 11:19:33 AM
Mike; I tried calling on Friday evening, but I think you were already closed. I was going to call you yesterday, but Terri and I went out for a ride, and by the time I got home, it was too late. I don't know if you're open on Mondays, but I'll try then.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jdgretz on August 21, 2011, 01:41:01 PM
Sounds like a great addition.  I'll take one as well.

jdg
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Crusty on August 22, 2011, 09:33:41 AM
Hey; I got through and ordered one! Now all you have to do is figure out how to pronounce Leominster.  ;)
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Kev m on August 22, 2011, 10:31:00 AM
Phone hiccup
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: murphy on August 22, 2011, 10:47:17 AM
Count me in too Mike. Thanks for putting this together.
Murphy
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: HDGoose on August 22, 2011, 11:32:15 AM
pretty much the same solution I had to do on my Electra Glide.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: kitze2 on August 22, 2011, 11:53:09 AM
Ordered one today. Along with a couple of gaskets and a T-Shirt.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Eric on August 22, 2011, 05:32:52 PM
I'm really sorry to ask this but I've been away from the board for a while and I couldn't find anything with the search feature. What problems does this solve?
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: DanR on August 22, 2011, 06:47:59 PM
I'm really sorry to ask this but I've been away from the board for a while and I couldn't find anything with the search feature. What problems does this solve?

Start here
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=43725.0

This

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=46270.0
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Eric on August 22, 2011, 07:18:47 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Eric on August 23, 2011, 07:53:42 AM
How incredibly wierd. I have never had this problem in the years that I've owned the Norge. Yesterday I read this thread and this morning I press the starter on the Norge, the light show finishes, I press the starter and a loud click and the dash goes dark. Conicidence? Or does Guzzi not give you trials greater than the board's strength to deal with it?
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on August 23, 2011, 08:05:47 AM
How incredibly wierd. I have never had this problem in the years that I've owned the Norge. Yesterday I read this thread and this morning I press the starter on the Norge, the light show finishes, I press the starter and a loud click and the dash goes dark. Conicidence? Or does Guzzi not give you trials greater than the board's strength to deal with it?
;D That's pretty much it..
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jreagan on August 23, 2011, 08:14:57 AM
Dash goes dark?  That is a little different.  Check the battery connections and the ground by the starter.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: DanR on August 23, 2011, 09:02:35 AM
How incredibly wierd. I have never had this problem in the years that I've owned the Norge. Yesterday I read this thread and this morning I press the starter on the Norge, the light show finishes, I press the starter and a loud click and the dash goes dark. Conicidence? Or does Guzzi not give you trials greater than the board's strength to deal with it?
Original Battery ? could have went belly up
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Dean Rose on August 23, 2011, 09:09:41 AM
How incredibly wierd. I have never had this problem in the years that I've owned the Norge. Yesterday I read this thread and this morning I press the starter on the Norge, the light show finishes, I press the starter and a loud click and the dash goes dark. Conicidence? Or does Guzzi not give you trials greater than the board's strength to deal with it?
Original Battery ? could have went belly up

Batteries are like the weather. You never know when they'll go bad. I seen new ones go bad in days.


Dean
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Eric on August 23, 2011, 09:25:54 AM
Hmm.  I'll have to look into those possibilities.  Yes, the dash goes dark and all is dead. It's the original battery. I had to ride the Ural into work today. Sad thing when your Ural becomes your reliable bike....
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Crusty on August 23, 2011, 10:37:38 AM
Eric; I had the same thing happen to my Norge. One of the bolts for the terminals was loose.I tightened it and all was well again.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: toddhaven on August 31, 2011, 11:40:21 AM
First batch is ready to ship.
$20 shipped in US.
Overseas shipping at cost. An addition $25 to most of the world.
Paypal to todd@mphcycles.com
Those of you for whom I have CCs on file and who have put your hands up will ship first.
Nick, BC, kitze, will ship today.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jdgretz on August 31, 2011, 12:29:47 PM
PayPal sent.

Thanks,

jdg
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: blackcat on August 31, 2011, 12:38:17 PM
First batch is ready to ship.
$20 shipped in US.
Overseas shipping at cost. An addition $25 to most of the world.
Paypal to todd@mphcycles.com
Those of you for whom I have CCs on file and who have put your hands up will ship first.
Nick, BC, kitze, will ship today.


Thanks.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Crusty on August 31, 2011, 03:02:43 PM
Well; Since I called and spoke to you, and gave you my credit card #, I'll assume that I'm one of the fortunate ones.
Yahoo!
(http://s1.postimage.org/1r3jsbbr8/bouncing.gif) (http://www.postimage.org/)
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: blackcat on September 05, 2011, 02:57:25 PM
Stupid Questions 101:

I have identified where the female side goes but where does the male side plug into? And I assume the orange lead goes to the hot side of the bat-tree.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jreagan on September 05, 2011, 03:19:07 PM
The new cable goes between the old cable and the starter relay.  The extra lead goes to the positive terminal on the battery.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: toddhaven on September 05, 2011, 03:20:05 PM
Stupid Questions 101:

I have identified where the female side goes but where does the male side plug into? And I assume the orange lead goes to the hot side of the bat-tree.

Remove relay, plug relay into into female side of harness,  install male side of harness into bike connector.
Orange lead goes to battery positive.  

Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: blackcat on September 05, 2011, 03:24:08 PM
Stupid Questions 101:

I have identified where the female side goes but where does the male side plug into? And I assume the orange lead goes to the hot side of the bat-tree.

Remove relay, plug relay into into female side of harness,  install male side of harness into bike connector.
Orange lead goes to battery positive.  
 

Got it. I knew it had to be simple. Thanks

Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jdgretz on September 05, 2011, 10:37:16 PM
Got mine the other day - looks nice.  Now to get the Norge fixed so I can install this.  I may add a fuse box while I have her apart.

jdg
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: youcanrunnaked on September 05, 2011, 10:51:21 PM
Are Stelvios prone to this problem, too?

It might help if you list all of the models for which this is a known problem.

Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: bilv7 on September 16, 2011, 06:58:55 AM
Would it be possible to send some of these ( maybe 4 -6, I will know for sure by the end of next week ) to Greece ?

How much would the cost be, including P & P ?

Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: bilv7 on September 21, 2011, 12:46:32 AM
Installing instructions come with the setup or do we have to figure out the connections ?
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Brian UK on September 21, 2011, 04:54:48 AM
As stated by Todd only a few posts up.
Remove relay, plug relay into into female side of harness,  install male side of harness into bike connector.
Orange lead goes to battery positive.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jreagan on September 21, 2011, 07:02:10 AM
As stated by Todd only a few posts up.
Remove relay, plug relay into into female side of harness,  install male side of harness into bike connector.
Orange lead goes to battery positive.

When I first took off the side panel, I had to figure out which relay was the correct one.  There are some photos in Kev M's how-to thread that will help.  If you haven't ever look at that set of relays, it might be overwhelming.  For instance, I didn't notice how the rubber strap fits over the tab until I looked closer with a bright light.

Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: bilv7 on September 22, 2011, 11:00:54 PM
Thank you !  ;-T
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: old head on October 07, 2011, 11:26:13 AM
got mine in the mail Wed.   ;D ;D ;D

Installed this morning, and it started.  ;-T

Now, only time will tell whether this will solve the problem or not, but at least I have eliminated this issue.  My Breva has had this issue very sporadically since new.  Only recently, has the issue come to the fore front.  Seems lately, every time I stop, I wonder am I going to get the click-click....  It has always started after a few tries, but still.

It was a very easy installation.  Once I found the relay it took seconds to connect.  Probably took longer to take the cover off the battery, disconnect the power lead, clean the terminals and put on the power lead than installing the harness from MPH.

So big  ;-T to MPH..

thanks

Old Head
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: bilv7 on October 12, 2011, 10:44:39 AM
Oldhead, would it be possible to post a photo of the "solution" installed, preferably a close one ?
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: old head on October 12, 2011, 02:24:24 PM
bilv7,


As you can see, the harness simply plugs in.  Seriously, just slide the relay off its support mount, unplug the relay, plug in MPH harness (color of wires match), plug in relay at female end of harness, run to battery and slide relay back into place..done and done...

(http://s1.postimage.org/1u21f0yh0/mph_harness.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1u21f0yh0/)

Old Head
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: bilv7 on October 13, 2011, 01:56:31 AM
Thank you !!!!!  ;-T
This picture will be a lot of help !!!
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jreagan on October 15, 2011, 02:39:40 PM
So I finally am getting around to installing this (I'm in the middle of moving, etc. so I haven't had much riding in the last few months).

Prior to install, I start the B1100 just to make sure things work.  I had already identified the right relay as far as I can tell from the wire colors, etc.

I plug in the MPH cable.  I attach the power lead to the battery.  Try to start.  Nothing.  Zilch.  Not even a click on the relay. 

So I put it back the way it was just a minute earlier.  This time SERVICE on the dash.  Turn key off/on.  I now get a dashboard error.  Sigh...

I clean all the battery connections.  With the MPH cable NOT in the system, I still cannot start the bike.  I hear the loud click of the solenoid (and feel the click in the relay).  But the starter won't start.

Now looking at the cable, it seems to be cross-wired.  The yellow and green wires are on the top in the left connector, but on the bottom on the right connector.  I would have expected them to flow through straight (other than the power wire).

Am I confused?  What I did mess up?  There is another 4 connector relay but those wires don't even come close in colors to the one I tried.  I tried to attach photos of the cable ends but the "upload folder is full".  I'll put them on another site and add a reply in a sec.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jreagan on October 15, 2011, 02:46:32 PM
Photos

(http://images3a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp733%3C%3B%3Enu%3D6685%3E898%3E257%3EWSNRCG%3D3458%3A%3B9%3A75348nu0mrj)

(http://images3a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp73455%3Enu%3D6685%3E898%3E257%3EWSNRCG%3D3458%3A%3B%3C333348nu0mrj)

(http://images3a.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp73455%3Enu%3D6685%3E898%3E257%3EWSNRCG%3D3458%3A%3B%3C332348nu0mrj)
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: mojohand on October 15, 2011, 05:53:00 PM
Two kits to me, Todd (Griso 8V & Norge 4V). Thanks for doing this, guys!
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Jim 06B1100 on October 15, 2011, 06:45:15 PM
I would like to purchase this solution.  Please message me when you are ready to ship for payment info.

Thanks for this guys.  My 06 Breva 1100 has had this starting issue, and I look forward to this permanent solution.

Jim
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: toddhaven on October 15, 2011, 08:32:26 PM
Welcome to the world of small production runs..
Looks like the guy we subbed these out to missed a connection on assembly of a few units.
You are the third I have heard about.
It is a simple fix, or we can send you a replacement unit.
Call on Monday, Mike can walk you through it.
281-647-6557.

I thought we'd sell maybe 20 of these kits.
Sold over 50 so far, more supplies ordered.

Sorry for the hassle.
All the batch sent to Greece were QC'd to avoid any hassles, you should be good to go bilv7.
I have an instruction sheet printed, will post on Monday.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jreagan on October 15, 2011, 10:22:11 PM
Thanks.  I'll call on Monday.

Any idea why I'm having trouble with getting it started with everything back to stock?  Did I blow a fuse somewhere? (I haven't checked yet -- I'll do that in the morning)

Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jreagan on October 16, 2011, 01:18:22 PM
Here's an update to finish the story...

Checked all the fuses (all good), cleaned the battery connections, removed the battery overnight and put on BatteryTender, cleaned the ground connection by the starter, checked/cleaned the connections to the solenoid.  It now starts fine.  Either I didn't have enough juice left in the battery to spin the starter or the ECU was upset over getting 12v backfeed into the wrong connection.  Letting it sit overnight without the battery seems to have reset things OK.

I was able to flip the mis-wired connections but I didn't put in the new harness (I ran out of time and needed to stop).  I will keep an eye on things for odd service warnings/dashboard errors/etc.  I hope I didn't fry anything with the mis-wired version.

So everybody who hasn't installed theirs yet, check the wiring connections carefully.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Crusty on October 16, 2011, 01:50:22 PM
Mine was also mis-wired when I got it, but I have a tool that lets me slide the blades out of the block; so I rearranged the wires. I wasn't going to say anything, but I decided that you might want to know about it.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Chicago Mark on October 16, 2011, 03:32:58 PM
PayPal funds sent. Thank you MPH Cycles!  ;-T

Mark
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jdgretz on October 16, 2011, 08:46:23 PM
OK, so now I'm curious as to what the correct pin placements are

Mine is wired as follows - looking at the connectors end on with the connector fitting a the bottom -

Male connector:                           Female Connector:

    Green                                      Orange   Green
    Yellow     Yellow/Brown               Yellow    Yellow/Brown
           Connector                               Connector


jdg
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jreagan on October 16, 2011, 09:19:18 PM
I have some dental picks that used to push down the tabs and remove/reposition the male connectors.

jdg: Can't tell from you diagram on the orientation, but I'd move the green wire so it matches from the male to the female.

Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: jdgretz on October 16, 2011, 10:26:31 PM
Thanks, then it's correct as delivered.

jdg
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: bilv7 on October 18, 2011, 03:09:08 PM
Welcome to the world of small production runs..
Looks like the guy we subbed these out to missed a connection on assembly of a few units.
You are the third I have heard about.
It is a simple fix, or we can send you a replacement unit.
Call on Monday, Mike can walk you through it.
281-647-6557.

I thought we'd sell maybe 20 of these kits.
Sold over 50 so far, more supplies ordered.

Sorry for the hassle.
All the batch sent to Greece were QC'd to avoid any hassles, you should be good to go bilv7.
I have an instruction sheet printed, will post on Monday.


 ;-T ;-T ;-T
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: azccj on October 23, 2011, 05:07:47 PM
My Norge failed to start a few weeks ago and would continually blow one of the 15 amp fuses each time I pushed the starter button. Got the MPH Startus Interruptus and finally got it installed today. Bike fired right up and now all is well.

Thanks MPH for making these things and offering them so cheap. ;-T
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: old head on November 11, 2011, 05:35:41 PM
Just wanted to post an update since I installed MPH's solution.

Its been about 2 months, and I haven't experienced one incident since installation.  Nada, nothing, no clicks, starter works every time hot or cold.  I used to get the click a couple times a day, especially when hot, and sometimes when cold.

So big  ;-T ;-T ;-T ;-T ;-T to MPH..

Old Head
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: JRCALVIN on November 13, 2011, 05:14:54 PM
Hi Mike,
2007 CalVin which have same issue when cold, however it is fine at over 68F.
Does this fix apply to the CalVin and if so, I will like to purchase one on my next visit to Houston on November 22.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Idontwantapickle on November 13, 2011, 10:30:48 PM
So my battery on the Norge got a bit lazy after a couple weeks of lolygagin' around in the garage. Yesterday my ride was briefly delayed by an annoying click followed by no start. Charge battery and off to ride.
BUT being the owner of a Guzzi I thought I would go back and look at the no start threads (very informative) and see if I had an issue.
Maybe yes, maybe no.
I studied (curious nature) the solutions, complaints, and Carl's valuable diagram for the Norge. I was left with a nagging question:
What happens if a modified relay circuit sticks and cranks out of control due to the relay failing?
On the original setup the human turns the key off breaking the circuit to the solenoid, not just the relay. This is most likely why the factory did it this way. I have never had a bike do it, but I have seen the nuclear meltdown that can occur when a car starter circuit cranks to death. No doubt the legal dept had a say in that. Any thoughts from y'all? My apologies if this has been covered, I did not find it when I looked.

Hunter
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Bill Hagan on December 29, 2011, 10:12:54 AM

As Wayne had done this repair to my Norge before the Havens created their elegant fix discussed here, I did not think much about this.  My Norge, once a frustrating machine that needed to be parked on a hill or have strong friends along, has not skipped a beat since Wayne did his surgery on it.

And, this thread was pretty much history by time I bought my Griso, so I did not pay much attention when it got bumped a couple of times after that.

But, I happened to talk with mojohand and then saw his earlier post about ordering one for his Griso, too.  Then, saw that danr and chicago mark did same.  Hmmmmmm. 

Just off phone with Todd.  One's inbound to Milan.  Thanks, MPH.

Bill

P.S.  I note that no one answered Idontwantapickle's question -- last before my post here -- about "runaway" starter.  Anything to that?

Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Wayne Orwig on December 29, 2011, 10:48:09 AM
P.S.  I note that no one answered Idontwantapickle's question -- last before my post here -- about "runaway" starter.  Anything to that?

You're screwed......

Not impossible. But then a sticking solenoid is also possible.
Best bet. Know how to get the seat off and where the fuse or relay is to pull if the starter keeps going. Very unlikely thing, but possible.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: SemperVee on December 29, 2011, 11:42:03 AM
You're screwed......

Not impossible. But then a sticking solenoid is also possible.
Best bet. Know how to get the seat off and where the fuse or relay is to pull if the starter keeps going. Very unlikely thing, but possible.
[/quote

 It had only happened once,  so yes it is rare -  I experienced a stuck solenoid at an embarrassing event. I was teaching an MSF advanced rider course and was just about to demonstrate how to ride the course on my 1989 Hardley Electra Glide FLHTC.  I had just announced to the class to " do what I do on the course ".  Hit the starter button and smoke started rising from behind the R saddle bag and the starter would not stop "Starting".  I quickly unhooked the battery connection.  Of course I was the " only " Harley out there...  Just solidified in the students mind -  how mechanically unreliable and problematic the HD's were still back then....
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Jim 06B1100 on March 24, 2012, 03:52:23 PM
Thank you To MPH Cycles.  Excellent service and a high quality and effective after market part.  My starter relay upgrade kit arrived today. ( a rainy Saturday here in Western Pennsylvania) I had the part installed in about 10 minutes.  Instructions were clear and concise.  Bravo/Bravissimo Todd and Mike at MPH. ;-T ;-T

 :bike

Jim
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: ITALN on April 06, 2014, 09:25:07 AM
Along the lines with post #91, I just installed the MPH relay fix and all I got was my bike continueously turning over and not starting - take my finger of the starter switch and she keeps on cranking….. and does not start. Put it back to stock and she works, and I am sure it will go back to the intermittent fuse blowing problem again soon…..

Any advise would be appreciated. Although I am pretty mechanically inclined, when it comes to electrical, I am barely qualified to hold a drop-light.

Thanks!

Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Wayne Orwig on April 06, 2014, 09:27:33 AM
Along the lines with post #91, I just installed the MPH relay fix and all I got was my bike continueously turning over and not starting - take my finger of the starter switch and she keeps on cranking….. and does not start. Put it back to stock and she works, and I am sure it will go back to the intermittent fuse blowing problem again soon…..

Any advise would be appreciated. Although I am pretty mechanically inclined, when it comes to electrical, I am barely qualified to hold a drop-light.


Contact MPH.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: donp71 on February 23, 2016, 05:37:07 AM
Hi all,
I've just purchased one of these MPH kits for my soon to be Breva 1200 2V. Being not the most mechanically minded, can anyone give me a quick run through on where to plug into the correct relay please or how to identify it? The wires on the kit are all white, but numbered 1, 2, 3
Cheers

Don
 
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: tris on February 23, 2016, 06:08:12 AM
If its the one with the 2 white plugs they're handed so you can't plug them in wrong - the only tricky bit is finding the right relay

IIRC there's 2 that look the same but only one has the "YELLOW" wire

On my B11 there are 4 relays/switches on the RHS of the bike. Mine was the second one in nearest to the tank as you look at the RHS of the bike - YMMV

Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: donp71 on February 23, 2016, 06:21:45 AM
Thanks Tris
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: donp71 on May 09, 2016, 02:58:27 AM
Hi all,

I'm pleased to say I've finally fitted the MPH solutions for Startus Interruptus. Thanks also to Peter Roper for having them in OZ and supplying to me.
Actually only did it once the battery was a little low after the bike was left for a couple of weeks without a ride. And sure enough, the "click" and not much else! Ok, time to fit the MPH kit.
After a couple of failed attempts at the right relay, found the right connection,followed the MPH instructions at the start of this thread, and all fixed , started no problem, no need to charge battery.
Thanks again to all for the great advice on this forum that meant i knew about the issue and  the fix (very easy even for a mechanical simpleton like me), problem solved and back on the road!!
Thanks MPH for a great fix and all fellow CARC riders here for the passion, encouragement and advice

Cheers
Don
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: kingoffleece on May 09, 2016, 06:28:49 AM
Are these still available?
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: not-fishing on May 09, 2016, 12:16:18 PM
Yep, I got one a couple of months ago.  You do have to call MPH though.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: PJPR01 on May 09, 2016, 12:18:56 PM
Hey King,

I was just there this morning, they've got several kits still...talk to Larry or Becky, they can get one in the mail to you.

Paul
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: kingoffleece on May 09, 2016, 09:13:49 PM
Ok-THX.  I didn't see this first and took up another wth an offer to sell me his.
If not, I call MPH.

Good on ya, mates.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: donp71 on June 30, 2016, 05:33:31 PM
Hi all,

Just wondering if I can get some guidance.
I have a 2008 Breva 1200 2V that i have fitted the "MPH" fix to as a precautionary measure a few months back.
Initially all seemed good, but in the last few weeks i have experienced the "click" and no start with it fitted. The bike has often been left not ridden for a week or so.
Following initial issue a week or so back, have just fitted a new battery as the one installed was pretty old.
Still having the same clicking issues and no start, with the new battery fitted.
With jumper leads from my car battery, will start every time. But left just on new battery in bike, will not start (occasionally, if clicked enough times, might start).

I am wondering if it may be the earth, as mentioned here i believe?
Can anyone tell me where this earth lead is (possibly behind the starter motor), and what I may need to check please?
Apologies for my mechanical/electrical ineptitude.

Also any other thoughts on things to check, would be much appreciated.
Cheers and regards
Don
 
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on June 30, 2016, 06:01:54 PM
Don,
         Unplug the start relay and check you have Voltage on the 30 socket with the key turned Off

Relay
  ---  30 direct from battery via a fuse
  ---  87  direct to starter solenoid
|  |  |
If 30 is alive only when the key is turned ON you have it wired wrong.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Wayne Orwig on June 30, 2016, 07:31:18 PM
Is it a faint clicks from a small relay, or a LOUD CLUNK from the starter?

Quick answer from your description would be a poor connection at the battery, ground, or starter. But we may need more info like battery voltage to be sure.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: mojohand on July 03, 2016, 08:12:33 PM
Don,
         Unplug the start relay and check you have Voltage on the 30 socket with the key turned Off

Relay
  ---  30 direct from battery via a fuse
  ---  87  direct to starter solenoid
|  |  |
If 30 is alive only when the key is turned ON you have it wired wrong.

Any chance for pics? Sorry to ask, but that'd be helpful to those of us not quite so adept... Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: donp71 on July 04, 2016, 05:25:45 AM
Thanks for the info so far guys. Will take a look at a few things in the coming days based off you suggestions and update you all.
Cheers
Don
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: donp71 on July 04, 2016, 05:41:39 AM
Just to clarify a little, i get aloud "click" when i try to start it, after the dials do there normal sweep and fuel pump makes its normal noise.
cheers
Don
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Kev m on July 04, 2016, 06:27:10 AM
Just to clarify a little, i get aloud "click" when i try to start it, after the dials do there normal sweep and fuel pump makes its normal noise.
cheers
Don

Loud can be sorta subjective, but if it's coming from under the cover on the starter at the lower side of the motor, then yeah, check the motor ends of the battery cables. Remove them, clean them, reattach. They're pretty easy to access, you'll have to remove that starter cover, and possibly the starter (I forget). But don't forget to detach the negative cable up at the battery first.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Wayne Orwig on July 04, 2016, 08:45:56 AM
If it is a louder clunk, and from the starter.
Then as Kev says, clean the large positive cable at the starter. (ground off at battery first)
Clean the cables at the battery.

You may have a failing starter. Measure the voltage at the starter when you try to start it.
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on July 04, 2016, 10:23:39 AM
I looked at a Breva750 for an elderly gentleman at the John Day national, I was surprised to find the start relay had no yellow wire. The relay on this bike was the rear most one. We identified it by measuring the resistance from the starter solenoid trigger wire to the relay base 87 contact and confirmed it by jumping from 30 to 87 so it cranked.
This gentleman had figured out with a short piece of wire to jumper at the solenoid he didn't need the start relay to work.
 
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: donp71 on July 07, 2016, 05:12:35 AM
Hi all,

Followed some of your advice, cleaned the ground/earth leads near the starter motor form negative cable and also ecu, plus some extra vigilant attention to battery cable and terminals. Inspected all connections to starter motor/solenoid. Checked all fuses.
General check of all wiring and original "mph startus interruptus" . Put all back together.
Bike now starts no problems. Rode it around for 10 mins, left it for 3hrs. Started again no problems. Rode it home. Reminded myself why i own a Guzzi ,Love this bike!!Just need pipe now and matched fuelling to release the soul of my Breva 1200!!
Again my thanks to this wonderful forum and its members for the assistance.
Cheers
Don
Title: Re: B11/Norge Startus Interruptus-the MPH Solution
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on July 07, 2016, 10:42:04 AM

What happens if a modified relay circuit sticks and cranks out of control due to the relay failing?
On the original setup the human turns the key off breaking the circuit to the solenoid, not just the relay. This is most likely why the factory did it this way. I have never had a bike do it, but I have seen the nuclear meltdown that can occur when a car starter circuit cranks to death. No doubt the legal dept had a say in that. Any thoughts from y'all? My apologies if this has been covered, I did not find it when I looked.

Hunter
I have seen something similar only it was the solenoid that failed. A friend asked me to have a look at his bike, near new solenoid would latch up every time without fail pulling the spade connector off made no difference, it would only drop out when the battery lead was broken.
When you take your finger off the button the relay breaks the circuit to the solenoid terminal but it's still powered up because current passes back from the closed main contact, through the heavy coil to the spade terminal then from there through the light coil to ground. The secret is the current changes direction in the heavy coil so instead of assisting the light coil it works in opposition to weaken the field.
I suspect in this faulty solenoid one of the windings was connected backwards or maybe a few turns shorted putting the coils out of balance.
In this case the starter got smoking hot before the battery was too flat to crank.

I don't believe the factory considered that at all, Startus Interuptus has caused 100 x the grief the odd sticking relay will cause, I don't believe they even know the starter pulls 45 Amps at inrush or they would have at least provided a 20 Amp fuse.