Author Topic: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer  (Read 19423 times)

Offline jcb72

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Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« on: January 10, 2015, 04:06:36 AM »
Happy NY everyone.

Has anyone fitted an autotune to a v7 2011 ?
I've had both sitting in a box for a while  and finally had time to install them, the PCV was easy and also easy to hide but the autotune is not so easy to hide on the V7 as the fat connector doesn't really fit anywhere discreet and its not long enough to hide beside the battery   >:(
 
If anyone has any ideas with pictures i would love to see how they did it  ;)

I disabled the 02 sensor with GuzziDiag so im using the same bung "wow how ugly is that big fat crossover".

2 more question for the wise do I take it I don't need the O2 optimizer that came with PCV if i'm using the autotune and O2 sensor (lambda) disabled ?.
Does anyone have a good base Map I can use that's better than stock until I get the bike Dyno'd, I'm running Straight through megaphone pipes.

Thanks

JCB



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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2015, 06:00:54 AM »
What are you hoping to achieve?

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2015, 06:12:45 AM »
Achieve depends on what question I was asking.

The first is somehow hide the fat connectors from the O2 sensor as its not as easy to on a naked compared to a sports bike, as for the map I guess I should not really need a custom map as the autotune would dynamically do what it wants anyhow,

Offline Perazzimx14

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2015, 06:31:45 AM »

Does anyone have a good base Map I can use that's better than stock until I get the bike Dyno'd, I'm running Straight through megaphone pipes.

Thanks

JCB

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2015, 06:31:45 AM »

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2015, 06:45:57 AM »
thanks, ive already tried the site and still looking for some answers.

Offline cwiseman

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2015, 07:16:35 AM »
 If your going to have it dyno'd then why install the autotune?
By using the autotune you won't really need it dyno'd if you spend some time accepting fuel trims.
You can always stick the autotune where ever it fits then have the cable plugged into it and can pop the seat, pull the cable out to length to plug into the laptop. Once your done tuning the bike after a few day take the cable off and tuck the autotune wherever it fits.
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Offline Kev m

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Re:
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2015, 08:00:12 AM »
How would auto tune work with the O2 sensor disabled?

CWise makes a good point about auto tune vs dyno. They're two different ways around the same square, so both would be redundant.

Vasco is probably getting ready to say that you're not going to make note power.
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Offline cwiseman

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2015, 08:20:09 AM »
I'm not sure about the autotune being disabled, maybe not able to tune the lowest of throttle settings but the other should still work.
Biggest thing I've found is only tune one map per day and keep a not book and write down comments about each map you load with the map name. That way you know what map is working best then you can tune your map table manually and really dial it in. It took awhile for me to figure that out but now I feel I'm pretty handy at it.
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2015, 08:35:33 AM »
The Autotune O2 sensor works separate from bikes ECU circuit. Sensor is read by AT box not bikes ECU. Shutting off O2 on bikes ECU is proper thing to do for this set up.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2015, 08:39:03 AM »
The Autotune O2 sensor works separate from bikes ECU circuit. Sensor is read by AT box not bikes ECU. Shutting off O2 on bikes ECU is proper thing to do for this set up.
Ahhhhh, thank you.

Guess it makes sense that it would have to come with its own O2 sensor so it would be a wide band.
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Offline pauldaytona

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2015, 06:18:00 PM »
> 2 more question for the wise do I take it I don't need the O2 optimizer that came with PCV

correct when lambda is disabled in ecu, you don't need the optimizer
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Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2015, 06:28:03 PM »
Thanks guys.

So from the reply's it looks liket:

1. In fitting the AutoTune I DO NOT need to install the supplied PCV O2 optimizer.
2. It makes no sense to have the bike Dyno'd for a good base custom map as the Autotune will do its thing and modify it on the fly as I ride.
3. as with point 2 It does not matter about what base map I use, so the default V7 "stock" should be sufficient, and the Autotune will compensate with the open mufflers and any other Mods I add/change example new PipeMaster mufflers, possibly new Crossover.

I'm not looking for extra HP just smoother riding as the weather is so unpredictable here in Melbourne, and I want to keep the bike healthy.
I just think the design of the O2 Sensor that comes with the Autotune is wonky as its near impossible to hide the bloody thing  ??? I dont mean Unit itself as that just tucks away under the seat with the PCV, its the fat connector that joins the O2 sensor to the Autotune I just have no where to hide it that keep it tucked away, protected from rain etc, and its not long enough to hide behind side panel or under seat.

cheers

Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2015, 09:59:19 PM »
I've fitted a PC-V and Autotune to my 2011 V7R.  All your points above are correct.

I found that following the advice from Dynojet in this Youtube video helped a great deal, for me at least.  I had very little playing time this summer to fool with the Autotune values but I did find that a AFR of 13.4 or 13.6 made the bike very smooth.  I'm using stock everything, including mufflers.

BTW, I fitted the PC-V right beside the battery (towards the tail) using a piece of industrial-grade velcro to fasten it securely to the battery compartment.  I placed the large connector and Autotune in the space under the seat just beside the fuse box.  I also permanently installed a usb cable to the PC-V and leave it under the seat.  There's even room left over under the seat for me to stash my disk brake lock.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 10:14:44 PM by rbm »
- Robert

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1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2015, 10:24:51 PM »
I already have the Lambda disabled, I have another problem at the moment the pcv and the autotune both power up and I can see them using the software, however the bike will not start now ? I cannot see what the problem could be.

when I remove replace the original cables back in to the injectors the bike starts ?.

Ive checked all the cables and everything that needs to be grounded is connected to the negative of the battery and I connected the autotune to the yellow wire (tail light).

Anyone got any ideas.

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2015, 11:06:54 PM »
Fixed the starting issues :D  no i'm not going to tell you how as its embarrassing, and I should have read the manual.

Anyways all good just need to take it out for a spin.

RBM when you loaded the map did you notice there was an awful lot of 0 and trim was nothing but ?, was that the same for you ?.

I take it that I do not need to adjust anything in the software apart from enabling the autotune ?

cheers

Offline cwiseman

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2015, 06:50:51 AM »
My suggestion is set the values between 13.4 and 13.6 then take it out and ride it, after that you'll see the fuel trims on the autotune side of things starting to change. Accept those trims. Over the course of 4 or 5 long rides and accepting the trims things should be getting close.
The is a nice thread on Guzzitech you should read up on!
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Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2015, 07:50:35 AM »
JCB, Yes, I did notice a large number of zeros and no trim values.  That is the base fuel map in the PCV that gets modified by the Autotune.  The zeros means PCV will not modify the AFR issued by the ECU.  Using the interface, set your target AFRs (13.4-13.6) in the cells of the fueling map that you wish Autotune to attempt modification.  Take the motorcycle out for a long ride, using a variety of throttle openings and gearing so that Autotune gets to modify fueling throughout the map.  When you next go in, the trim map will have trim values assigned (these are the differences to the ECU fueling that will bring the actual fueling to the target fueling).  If you notice anomalies with the performance of the motorcycle, adjust the base map to add or remove target fueling to suit.  When your adjustments are finally correct, accept the trims.
- Robert

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Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2015, 04:36:02 PM »
RBM does accepting the trims mean that the autotune is just replacing the the values in the base PCV base map?.
From reading the main PCV section on guzzitech I had the impression that autune would just continually tune the fuel day to day in all riding conditions if this is the case why accept the trims when it could change when the weather changes ?.

I did not get a chance to take the bike out as I damaged the TPS wire whilst adding the PCV (cut to close to the connector) so I need to find another connector :(

cheers

Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2015, 05:10:06 PM »
Yes, it replaces the values  in the PC-V map.  What you've done by accepting the trims is to take a snapshot of the fueling at a point in time and made it relatively permanent.  That way, it _could_ be possible to remove the Autotune device and still enjoy all the benefits of an improved fueling. 

However, with the Autotune still connected, the Autotune continues to monitor the wideband O2 sensor and adjust fueling.  If you don't change the fuel map targets in the PC-V, it is highly unlikely that the Autotune would alter any of its trim values.  You're correct in stating that possible atmospheric variables would cause trim changes.

It is possible to add a SPDT switch to the PC-V to switch between the current map and the last saved map, so that you can compare any changes in fueling.  For example, let's say you transfer the current trim values and then adjust the fueling targets at low throttle openings with the intent to improve idle and cold start characteristics.  Then using the switch you can instantly compare performance before and after your change to see if  the intended change was beneficial or detrimental.
- Robert

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1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2015, 05:49:28 PM »
thanks, its all making sense now.

Is the electrical connector that joins the O2  sensor to the Autotune unit waterproof ? it does not look like it and I'm worried as it will not fit anywhere safe i.e under seat or in side panel as the PC O2 sensor cable is too short.

Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2015, 06:01:01 PM »
It's no worse than any other automotive style connector.  It's weather resistant but not waterproof.  I wouldn't worry.
- Robert

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1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

Offline LaGrasta

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2015, 11:52:50 AM »
I have this exact set up, in addition to a Shorai battery, much, much smaller than stock thus allowing plenty of room under the seat.
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Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2015, 06:20:10 PM »
Sorry lagastra I think I may be confusing you in regards to what component I'm meaning.

Its not the actual Autotune Unit (which sits easily next to the PCV and tucks away under the seat, my issue is the plastic connectors that connect the probe to autotune as its not long enough to reach the seat or the battery compartment for that matter.


Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2015, 09:28:24 PM »
JCB, Yes, I did notice a large number of zeros and no trim values.  That is the base fuel map in the PCV that gets modified by the Autotune.  The zeros means PCV will not modify the AFR issued by the ECU.  Using the interface, set your target AFRs (13.4-13.6) in the cells of the fueling map that you wish Autotune to attempt modification.  Take the motorcycle out for a long ride, using a variety of throttle openings and gearing so that Autotune gets to modify fueling throughout the map.  When you next go in, the trim map will have trim values assigned (these are the differences to the ECU fueling that will bring the actual fueling to the target fueling).  If you notice anomalies with the performance of the motorcycle, adjust the base map to add or remove target fueling to suit.  When your adjustments are finally correct, accept the trims.

I'm still a bit confused on the autotune setup.
I selected get map  and changed the 13.2 to 13.4 and in the cells that where in the cruise range I set to 13.6 I also set 2 rows of the cells that where set to 0 in the throttle %25 %40  to 5250 RPM to 13.4.

When I got back from my ride and loaded the map and looked at the trim, the only cell that changed was 100% throttle at  1500rpm and was changed to -0, does this seem correct ? as I would have expected to see a lot more values changing

as for AFR that was originally set to 0 am I not meant to change this to 13.4 am I supposed to leave this as 0 ?

There is also a video in youtube where the lad fixes his rough idle by adding a value in the low idle range that was originally set to 0, after changing the value it fixed the rough idle, my question is is this ok to do with the V7.

Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2015, 11:18:33 PM »
My experience has been that the trim map values change significantly through Autotune, so I'm perplexed by the lack of changes that you are seeing.  You did mention an installation problem with the TPS, I believe.  Could there still be a problem?

Not sure what AFR originally set to zero you are talking about.

I'd first make sure that any rough idle you may be having is not caused by (1) valve maladjustment (2) air leakage in the intake track (3) TBs being unsynchronized.  If you eliminate those possible causes, then adding the fueling in the low throttle range could improve idle, at the expense of poorer fuel economy.  I added some 5% to my V7 in that range.
- Robert

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1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2015, 12:31:05 AM »
Naa the TPS fixed itself after I fixed and installed the new connector I broke.
its not that the idle is rough it just seems low around the 800rpm range "its probably normal", as for "the AFR set to 0" question.. in my base AFR table am I not meant to change any cells that have a 0 ? as I seem to have 0s (not including first 2 rows) from 500rpm @ 5% throttle, to 5250rpm @ 40% throttle which seem like a lot of cells that can not be modified.

Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2015, 09:41:52 AM »
Have you seen this video?

Your target AFR map should have values of 13.2-13.6 in the cells from 10% throttle @ 1500 RPM onwards.  If your target map is mostly zeros, then Autotune will not be able to adjust trim table values in those cells.  It sounds like the target AFR table is not correct from your description.
- Robert

2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2015, 09:13:54 PM »
Ok I added 13.4 in those cells saved it then went for a ride, still no changes showing in the trim table, perhaps I need to go for a really long ride or let it gather its data over a week of general  riding ?.

I set all the cells you mentioned to 13.4 as was not sure which ones need to be 13.6.

Funny thing is the Idle has gotten worse, it now feels like its going to stall and this is only with the Powercommander connected, with it disconnected its fine (just)
is it best using guzzidiag and adjust the CO trim for the idle i.e jump up from say 0 to +20 or is it best using  the power commander and put something like 13.8 in the cell ?.

I just set the CO trim in guzzidiag back to 0 as it was set to +10  its seems to bet better on idle for now.


cheers
« Last Edit: January 17, 2015, 09:53:45 PM by jcb72 »

Offline rbm

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2015, 12:49:15 AM »
Your 800 RPM idle is too low; it should be around 1100-1200 RPM.  Things I'd try:
- double check throttle body balance and mechanical idle speed adjustment.  Once you're happy these are to factory specs, then ...
- reset the TPS, using Guzzidiag for the ECU and do the same in the Dynojet software for the PC=V
- calibrate the throttle in the PC-V

I'd not touch CO levels in Guzzidiag before you have eliminated mechanical problems or mal-adjustments as a possible source for the low idle speed.  And I think you can get the same effect as CO trim by adding AFR targets in the low throttle columns on the Autotune.  My personal preference is to leave the ECU alone as much as possible, but you may have a different view.

As for the trims, they should begin to change almost immediately.  When I was initially testing my setup, I'd just take a 2 minute ride around the neighbourhood, using as much range on the throttle as I dare.  I'd see immediate updating of the trim table when I returned.  A long ride or a week's data collection should not be necessary.

If you are still not getting satisfaction with the PC-V / Autotune, then maybe a call to technical support at Dynojet is needed.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 12:50:21 AM by rbm »
- Robert

2011 Moto Guzzi V7 Racer
1987 BMW K75 @k75retro.blogspot.ca

Offline jcb72

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Re: Dynojet autotune with V7 racer
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2015, 10:16:52 PM »
Thanks RBM

I was in NZ for a few days catching up with some friends so have not had time to make those adjustments.

how do I check throttle body balance and mechanical idle speed adjustment ?

Last time I had a go at getting the autotune wasThursday.

I put 13.2 in the 0 row at 1000 RPM and after about 30 seconds the green autotune light came on in the software I then started to see the AFR climbing and trying to reach the 13.2 value, after which I checked the trim table and there was a -13 in the cell.

so the Autotune module appears to be working, it just will not work for any cells where I have to engage the gears :(

When I spoke to a dynotec tech he advised "Auto tune is not functioning at 0% throttle. Auto tune requires a flow of exhaust going past the oxygen sensors"

This does not make sense to me as the exhaust fumes must be getting picked up by the 02 sensor at 0% throttle or it would not have started to increase the AFR which it clearly did.

 ???
 

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