Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dirk_S on January 15, 2022, 09:54:21 PM
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A couple months ago I purchased a set of used spokes V7 wheels. Planning to replace the spokes and seal the rims to run tubeless tires, like I did previously with the set that’s currently on the bike. This new-to-me set is bare aluminum, and I want these on the bike, and I’ll throw one of the current wheels over to the sidecar axle.
While I’ve got everything deconstructed, I’m going to take the opportunity to replace the bearings. I haven’t removed them yet, so I’m not sure if they even NEED to be replaced (assuming probably not), but I view this as an inexpensive lesson of the empirical sort. I’ve never purchased wheel bearings before. I know there’s a code stamped on the race or cover, but without looking at a bearing thats already in the wheel, is there a way to find out what aftermarket bearing sizes to look for that fits the V7 II? I read recently about certain grades? Should I avoid roller or tapered bearings? What general tips SHOULD I know?
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Certainly not tapered rollers.
If you do that, you then have to monitor preload and the sort of Nm figure that would be called for, would not be sufficient for a snug axle / fork slider connection.
I see you are running a side car, so the concept of tapereds is not a ridiculous choice empirically, but you will introduce the potential for a hornet’s nest of complications, although the sidecar wheel may be worth considering.
You’ll also be well advised to get some warmth onto the hub if you can when extracting the races, it leaves the bore in pristine condition (if it ever was..).
Also when fitting the new ones, warm the hub and freeze the races, they’ll go in so easily, you’ll think they’ve sold you the wrong ones..!
For heaven’s sake though, don’t forget the spacer... :rolleyes:
If you do and you have to belt one of the new ones out..? Don’t re use it.
Also.
When you’ve fitted the new ones, push on the inner of the left race while holding opposite pressure on the other one and make sure that the inners won’t turn independently of each other. This would indicate that the spacer is not in solid contact with the inners and it’s imperative that it is.
If you have ANY clearance between the inners and the spacer, you will brutalise the races upon tightening the axle and you’ll be back in there quick sticks....
Why ?
‘Cause they’ll be rooted.
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Certainly not tapered rollers.
If you do that, you then have to monitor preload and the sort of Nm figure that would be called for, would not be sufficient for a snug axle / fork slider connection.
I see you are running a side car, so the concept of tapereds is not a ridiculous choice empirically, but you will introduce the potential for a hornet’s nest of complications, although the sidecar wheel may be worth considering.
You’ll also be well advised to get some warmth onto the hub if you can when extracting the races, it leaves the bore in pristine condition (if it ever was..).
Also when fitting the new ones, warm the hub and freeze the races, they’ll go in so easily, you’ll think they’ve sold you the wrong ones..!
For heaven’s sake though, don’t forget the spacer... :rolleyes:
If you do and you have to belt one of the new ones out..? Don’t re use it.
Also.
When you’ve fitted the new ones, push on the inner of the left race while holding opposite pressure on the other one and make sure that the inners won’t turn independently of each other. This would indicate that the spacer is not in solid contact with the inners and it’s imperative that it is.
If you have ANY clearance between the inners and the spacer, you will brutalise the races upon tightening the axle and you’ll be back in there quick sticks....
Why ?
‘Cause they’ll be rooted.
That is excellent guidance; very instructive. Thx!
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A blind bearing puller makes removal of old bearings an easy task.
Trying to punch a bearing out with a drift through the center axle opening from the opposite side while trying to catch the edge of the bearing can be difficult. The through punch also requires slowly moving around the bearing to not wedge the bearing into the hub.
A cheap blind bearing puller kit can be found at Harbour Freight or Amazon. A blind bearing puller is useful for many other bearing extractions on a motorcycle.
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Buy quality American made. Don't buy cheap China bearings.
And do not side load as others said.
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20 years ago I worked for NSK, so here's a few general pointers.
Dimensions are coded so match the numbers from any supplier you'll get the same bearing . The caveat being some of the specials like the big ones in the CARC which might not be quite the same
1 or 2 S indicates a bearing with 1 or 2 metal shields. Smilarly 1 or 2 R indicates a bearing with rubber seals . This isn't universal and some suppliers are slightly different
If you need to press a bearing into place. NEVER use the inner race to push the outer race into place.
You WILL dent (brinnel) the races that will cause them to fail in short order.
I spent a lot If time telling customers to stuff their warranty claims for that :thumb:
A decent branded manufacturer is worth paying for.
I'd suggest NSK, SKF or other European (I don't know any US manufacturers)
They all have Chinese manufacturing plants, but quality should be gaurenteed by the mother ship
All rolling element bearings need a degree of axial load. If not loaded the rolling elements skid across the races again destroying the bearing. RTF for the numbers
HTH
Tris
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All these comments are really appreciated. tris, thanks so much for the code explanations.
I had already seen Stein-Dinse’s site show that the front bearings appear to be shared amongst MANY Guzzis. Not sure about the rear. Was hoping there was a way to know without pulling up the bearing itself, but I guess Guzzi doesn’t want you knowing the code off the bat, as they certainly would rather make money having you buy the bearings from them direct. I’ll check the rear bearings later today when I knock them out.
I’m going to skip the bearing puller in favor of learning the cheap, everyday screwdriver and socket / punch method. I live in a tiny apartment and find myself excitedly buying tools too often—that’s not helping my minimalist goals.
Huzo, I did read about hearing the hubs, which I’ll use if necessary, but freezing the bearings scares me—freezing can cause condensation, and I don’t want to start off on the wrong note by introducing moisture into the brand new bearings. Maybe my science is wrong?
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Dirk - you can source wheel bearings in the US pretty easily. Greg Bender’s site has references.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_small_blocks_wheel_bearing_cross-references.html
I buy the best that I can get and I buy extras in case I screw one up on the install or forget a spacer.
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There are lots of how to videos on YouTube. I'm pretty sure freezing the bearing is common and nothing to worry about.
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Yup, I feel fairly comfortable with the process. I should’ve mentioned that I already watched Ari’s (Revzilla, formerly with Motorcyclist Magazine) and Delboy’s bearing replacement videos a few times over the years to prep for this moment. Neither mentioned freezing the bearing, so that tip caught me off guard. The process isn’t as much of a concern as knowing exactly which bearings to go for with needing to actually go look at the code on the bearing.
I’d already Greg’s site a couple times looking for the specific codes for the V7 II, but if the information is on the site, I didn’t see it upon cursory search; hence why I posted here. This is all I found:
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_small_blocks_wheel_bearing_cross-references.html (https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_small_blocks_wheel_bearing_cross-references.html)
I haven’t found a cross-reference list or a forum post that specifically mentions the bearing sizes for post-Classic V7 models that makes me feel confident in purchasing, so I’ll just check the bearings myself and post the sizes for posterity.
Will make sure to stick with one of the well-regarded brands—looks like Guzzi uses SFK.
:thumb::thumb::thumb:
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NAPA is big on loaning tools. You leave the value of the tool on your credit card and NAPA (Auto Parts) refunds it when they get the tool back.
My local NAPA had an excellent blind bearing puller set on hand when I redid a couple of Guzzi transmissions. Sure made the job go quickly and smoothly.
I'm a fan of SKF "Explorer" series bearings. These are supposedly their best of the best. They aren't much more expensive than any other good quality bearing.
Guzzi wheel applications (1977+ at least) seem to use ball bearings with part numbers suffixed 2RS (2 sides, rubber seals).
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I tried really hard to find US made bearings. I could not, many manufacturers are US based but the bearings they supply are made globally. Maybe someone has better google foo than I. I ordered NSK from a US based supplier from Amazon. Most of the bearings I found were C3 class which means that they have some clearance more than the tightest. I have it on good authority that C3 class is fine for wheel bearings, tighter than C3 is for aerospace and precision type stuff, my Guzzi ain't that. YMMV
Brian
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Since they are relatively inexpensive, buying both a blind bearing puller and outside puller set is a no-brainer. They are useful for so many jobs and the need usually comes up suddenly. For removing wheel bearings I usually try a drift first. A good selection of larger sockets and a soft mallet are all I need for the install. Freezing the bearing first helps.
The first question though is whether to replace at all. On my SP project, it has 20k miles on it and the bearings spin freely with no looseness or binding. Although I had ordered new bearings I elected to keep the old ones in. The old me would have replaced them, inviting possible complications such as improper install or buggering something in the removal.
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Since they are relatively inexpensive, buying both a blind bearing puller and outside puller set is a no-brainer. They are useful for so many jobs and the need usually comes up suddenly. For removing wheel bearings I usually try a drift first. A good selection of larger sockets and a soft mallet are all I need for the install. Freezing the bearing first helps.
The first question though is whether to replace at all. On my SP project, it has 20k miles on it and the bearings spin freely with no looseness or binding. Although I had ordered new bearings I elected to keep the old ones in. The old me would have replaced them, inviting possible complications such as improper install or buggering something in the removal.
If you read my original post, I note that they may not need to be replaced, but since I’m rebuilding the wheels, and as I’ve never worked on bearings before, AND because they’re inexpensive enough, I see it as a golden opportunity to learn by doing.
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If there is any question at all on a wheel bearing, I replace them as a pair. It’s something that will stop me on the road and I’ve had that happen so I like to think I’ve learned my lesson
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If you read my original post, I note that they may not need to be replaced, but since I’m rebuilding the wheels, and as I’ve never worked on bearings before, AND because they’re inexpensive enough, I see it as golden opportunity to learn by doing.
SKF Explorer 6004.2RS as low as $6 each on Fleabay (shipped). Cheap enough to swap with every tire change. Good enough to run 100K miles without issue.
(6004 is one of Guzzi sizes. Other size similarly priced. See This Old Tractor for cross reference)
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If you read my original post, I note that they may not need to be replaced, but since I’m rebuilding the wheels, and as I’ve never worked on bearings before, AND because they’re inexpensive enough, I see it as golden opportunity to learn by doing.
I hope I didn’t come off as preachy Dirk.
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Motion Pro sells this nice bearing remover set:
https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0269
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I hope I didn’t come off as preachy Dirk.
All good! Nobody knows how much I know/don’t know beyond what I write, so making note about checking them first and only replacing when necessary is totally valid. But in this case, it’s being done regardless.
Having refereed roller derby for 10 years, I do know how to check bearings for degradation. That said, I also recognize there’s a wee amplification in safety measure when comparing roller skates to a motorcycle that will be ridden thousands of miles in all elements :grin:
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I would have thought that the US is similar to UK.
Find your local Engeering Supply company with the bearing identity no and they'll sort you out .... without the mark up
Take the old bearing with you if you're concerned.
If you can recognise a dead skate bearing you'll be fine Rumbling, notchiness, noisy, rusty, excessive free play, all the same, just different size
Useless info, the bearings (deep groove ball) 625 IIRC used on roller skates/skateboards are the most popular in the world
Good luck with with your endeavours
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The 6000 series bearings that Guzzi (fortunately) use are the most common boggy all-purpose bearings around, which makes them cheaper than a lot of other more speclialised sized bearings.
I guess you don't know the mileage on your wheels. The ones on the front of my Breva 750 failed somewhat prematurely at around 32,000 miles. It was very fortunate for me that my tire needed replacing in a very isolated community which sports a bike shop owned by a very good mechanic. He did a wheel bearing check as a matter of course, found one had seized and the other was notchy. He just replaced them; he knows the miles I do to even get there and knew I wouldn't make it home. Again fortunately, absolutely no damage to the shaft or the wheel. Dodged a bullet there.
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Curious—if the bearings are removed from the hub (for whatever reason I don’t know), can they still be used, or has the combination of initial tap-in and subsequent tap-out potentially compromised the bearings’ structural integrity too much for comfort? I imagine the answer to be ‘yes, replace the bearings, you cheap bastard.’
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You can't reuse the bearings- you've pulled or punched them out by the inner diameter while the outer diameter is restrained, so they get damaged in the removal process.
I'll add: Use the largest diameter round punch that can angle down to the bearing edge. Mine is about 5/8". Make sure the working corner of the punch is sharp as possible, otherwise the punch will just roll over the edge of the bearing when you pound it. Pound on one side of the bearing, then 180 degrees away. Back and forth. If you warm the hub with a heat gun, it will make things a bit easier. (Heat the hub, not the bearing. Yes, some heat will transfer to the bearing.)
The advice about freezing the new bearing is solid, I've seen it in service manuals. I suppose if you are concerned about condensation, you could play a hairdryer over the bearing once installed.
And as for a blind bearing puller, don't bother. You don't need it for this job and unless you are a pro you'll never use one enough to justify the expense. I've done quite a bit of work on cars and bikes. I've used one exactly once- to remove the swing arm bearings on my Guzzi. Apparently, you can borrow one from NAPA in some places, or rent. Unfortunately I had to buy one. (Don't tell anyone, but I used it that one time and returned it for a full refund, no questions asked.)
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To quote a nearly famous person " ‘yes, replace the bearings, you cheap bastard.’ "
For the 6 to 10 dollars for a bearing, hardly worth the bother to re-use them unless they're only a week old. Some thing I'll throw in the mix is if you have bearings with rubber sheilds ,if you ever so gently, remove one sheild you can re grease that bearing and reinstall the sheild. If it's a metal sheild, forget it. My$.02 on the freezing of a bearing this small, don't bother. The clearance fit of those is only about a half thousandths into the bore, so heating the bore will be plenty.
Paul B :boozing:
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Thanks all for the tips. Got the bearings out last night. Went to my BMW friend’s house to do it since he has loads more experience with bike stuff…and also has a torch. Spent the whole time there defending my decision to remove and install new ones. He’s an engineer, former military, quite the pragmatist. But he’s also punk, so I was trying to get that side of him to roll with my vision of learning-by-deconstruction.
Used an alignment punch (same thing as a drift?). Front hub was easy peasy, but the rear hub needed heat.
I looked once again on Greg’s site for bearing sizes—couldn’t find anything. Mind you, this is a small block V7, not one the old farts. Only mention of small block bearing sizes were of an older V50 or 65. Below are the sizes (mm):
FRONT (same bearing on both sides):
* OD 42; ID 20; Width 12
REAR:
* OD 47; ID 17; Width 14
* OD 40; ID 17; Width 12
In regards to bearing seals, is it ok to just order seals that match the OD and ID of the bearing it covers, or should other things be considered?
And, I nicked the inside of the rear spacer a couple times trying to knock it to the side. Do the tiny nicks even matter since it’s such a soft material, or should I go ahead and sand the inside smooth?
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[quote author=Dirk_S link=topic=113741.msg1799706#msg1799706 date=1642557094
And, I nicked the inside of the rear spacer a couple times trying to knock it to the side. Do the tiny nicks even matter since it’s such a soft material, or should I go ahead and sand the inside smooth?
[/quote]
Not an issue. the axle is stationary as is the spacer (theoretically) and only sets the gap between bearings, if you have collapsed the spacer tube then drive it true with the axle.
BTW a cheap 4 size blind bearing puller is under $30 on Ebay, silly cheap, a biiger is under $45. My cheap 6 size set is at least 15 years old and has paid for itself ten times over
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313836880047?hash=item491222c0af:g:4OAAAOSw8G1h5Qp5
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Thanks all for the tips. Got the bearings out last night. Went to my BMW friend’s house to do it since he has loads more experience with bike stuff…and also has a torch. Spent the whole time there defending my decision to remove and install new ones. He’s an engineer, former military, quite the pragmatist. But he’s also punk, so I was trying to get that side of him to roll with my vision of learning-by-deconstruction.
Used an alignment punch (same thing as a drift?). Front hub was easy peasy, but the rear hub needed heat.
I looked once again on Greg’s site for bearing sizes—couldn’t find anything. Mind you, this is a small block V7, not one the old farts. Only mention of small block bearing sizes were of an older V50 or 65. Below are the sizes (mm):
FRONT (same bearing on both sides):
* OD 42; ID 20; Width 12
REAR:
* OD 47; ID 17; Width 14
* OD 40; ID 17; Width 12
In regards to bearing seals, is it ok to just order seals that match the OD and ID of the bearing it covers, or should other things be considered?
And, I nicked the inside of the rear spacer a couple times trying to knock it to the side. Do the tiny nicks even matter since it’s such a soft material, or should I go ahead and sand the inside smooth?
So it seems you need for the front a 6004 and for the rear a 6303 and a 6203. Not quite sure what you mean about the seals but why not use 2RS bearings as in 60042RS, a 63032RS and 62032RS so double sided rubber seals incorporated.
Ciao
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So it seems you need for the front a 6004 and for the rear a 6303 and a 6203. Not quite sure what you mean about the seals but why not use 2RS bearings as in 60042RS, a 63032RS and 62032RS so double sided rubber seals incorporated.
Ciao
Suddenly that donation seems awfully good value eh Dirk ?
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Suddenly that donation seems awfully good value eh Dirk ?
The R.O.I. is certainly in my favor :)
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So it seems you need for the front a 6004 and for the rear a 6303 and a 6203. Not quite sure what you mean about the seals but why not use 2RS bearings as in 60042RS, a 63032RS and 62032RS so double sided rubber seals incorporated.
Ciao
:thumb: 2RS sealed bearings would be a good choice for this application.
The rubber seals keep the water and other road debris out of the bearings with the penalty of slightly more drag than a metal seal or open bearing
If you're interested in how Phil came up with the bearing numbers go here and plug the dimensions in
https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/bearingsearch.cgi?insidedia=&outsidedia=&width=&type=
PS despite the name Bearings Boys is a good organisation, and I'm sure that there will be an equivalent company in the US if the link doesn't work
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:thumb: 2RS sealed bearings would be a good choice for this application.
The rubber seals keep the water and other road debris out of the bearings with the penalty of slightly more drag than a metal seal or open bearing
Yeah, all three bearings had rubber seals, so I planned on going the 2RS route. One of the bearings was SKF, one was SNR, another Timken, and the 4th was too scratched, but assumed it was the same as the SKF (both were the same size and from the front wheel).
Not quite sure what you mean about the seals but why not use 2RS bearings as in 60042RS, a 63032RS and 62032RS so double sided rubber seals incorporated.
The wheels use 2RS bearings, but 3 of the sides (both front sides and one rear) also use wheel bearing seals outside of the bearing themselves. When replacing them, is there more to searching than simply measuring the inner and outer diameters?
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Small block V7 wheel seal measurements are as follows (measurements on seals were visible):
FRONT:
- 26mm ID X 42mm OD X 7mm thickness (x2)
REAR:
- 25mm ID X 40mm OD X 7mm thickness
I wasn’t sure if there was a certain type to get beyond the measurements. I ended up ordering All Balls seals through Walmart—nobody from All Balls responded to my query the past few days so I just sought them elsewhere.
BTW, I tried to get bearings from the local NAPA and Federated Auto Parts, and decided to buy online after they both quoted $40+ for just one of the bearings.
and ordered everything today:
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Yeah, all three bearings had rubber seals, so I planned on going the 2RS route. One of the bearings was SKF, one was SNR, another Timken, and the 4th was too scratched, but assumed it was the same as the SKF (both were the same size and from the front wheel).
The wheels use 2RS bearings, but 3 of the sides (both front sides and one rear) also use wheel bearing seals outside of the bearing themselves. When replacing them, is there more to searching than simply measuring the inner and outer diameters?
Ok, any images of these additional seals? Not something I'm familiar with. They aren't old bearing seals that have dislodged and been left there are they? Basically you just want the type of bearing (IE single row deep groove ball for example) the OD, ID and width. Then it's the seal type/s if any and the internal clearance if it's a bit of a special case.
Ciao
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Ok, any images of these additional seals? Not something I'm familiar with. They aren't old bearing seals that have dislodged and been left there are they? Basically you just want the type of bearing (IE deep groove ball for example) the OD, ID and width. Then it's the seal type/s if any and the internal clearance if it's a bit of a special case.
From what I’ve been reading, and from Delboy’s and Ari’s how-to videos, these wheel seals (oil seal? hub seal? Known by another, more popular term, perhaps?) are pretty common on motos and other automotives.
(https://i.ibb.co/vdhzr87/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vdhzr87)
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From what I’ve been reading, and from Delboy’s and Ari’s how-to videos, these wheel seals (oil seal? hub seal? Known by another, more popular term, perhaps?) are pretty common on motos and other automotives.
(https://i.ibb.co/vdhzr87/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vdhzr87)
Ok they look like a SC type seal for rotary shafts, They should have some numbers on them which will take a glass to see probably. I'm not sure of the std V7 setup but I'd be surprised if they used an open bearing and a separate pressed in seal on the hubs. Others here have greater knowledge on the V7 then I.
Some general info.
https://sealingaustralia.com.au/rotary-shaft-seals/
Ciao
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Yep, real common to all motorcycle mfgrs. 26 X 42 X8 mm lip seal. (the ones pictured) available online, at your local bearing dealer or your local Honda,Yamaha or Kawasaki dealer.
Paul B :boozing:
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Yep, real common to all motorcycle mfgrs. 26 X 42 X8 mm lip seal. (the ones pictured) available online, at your local bearing dealer or your local Honda,Yamaha or Kawasaki dealer.
Paul B :boozing:
For wheel bearings? All the wheel bearings I've experienced going back to the early 70's rely on the integral 2RS seal or the equivalent. I've not seen a separate shaft seal on a wheel bearing. Willing to be corrected and educated.
Ciao
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For wheel bearings? All the wheel bearings I've experienced going back to the early 70's rely on the integral 2RS seal or the equivalent. I've not seen a separate shaft seal on a wheel bearing. Willing to be corrected and educated.
Ciao
Just found a parts diagram for the 2016 V7ii and it does indeed show both bearings and seals outboard of the bearings. Whether or not the bearings are sealed is not specified in the part diagram.
GU92204221 is front bearing and crosses to a lot of Guzzis including my T3. On the T3 these bearings are 2RS sealed. Diagram shows seals over the bearings. They are part GU90402642 and they only seem to appear on V series wheels.
Rear is a similar setup with bearings inboard and seals outboard.
I do know if you ride in the slop it will get past 2RS bearing seals. A second set of seals with a bit of grease packed behind them (to lubricate the seal) will probably guarantee you zero maintenance lifetime wheel bearings.
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Most are exclusionary seals that press in outside the bearing. The spacer between the fork and bearing seals to the inside of the lip seal to keep out the water and dirt. Most seals installed in the bearings themselves are only to keep the grease in.
Paul B :boozing:
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Most are exclusionary seals that press in outside the bearing. The spacer between the fork and bearing seals to the inside of the lip seal to keep out the water and dirt. Most seals installed in the bearings themselves are only to keep the grease in.
Paul B :boozing:
👍
Took a while
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Most are exclusionary seals that press in outside the bearing. The spacer between the fork and bearing seals to the inside of the lip seal to keep out the water and dirt. Most seals installed in the bearings themselves are only to keep the grease in.
Paul B :boozing:
Well not really. Here's what the Koyo manual says on "dirt resistance". The ZZ non contacted shielded deep groove ball, Good. Non contact 2RU better than the ZZ. 2RS, ( probably the most common seal type) better than 2RU. The 2RK type, is rated as "excellent" as is the 2RD,excellent. If you also want "excellent" for water resistance as well as dirt resistance then the 2RK and 2RD are the ones to go for. The 2RU is rated as "good" for water resistance. So integral bearing seals are much more than simple grease retainers. A 2RS bearing is the most common wheel bearing I have seen without an additional seal and I've commonly seen 1RS wheel bearings where the non sealed side is facing inside the hub which I think is less than optimal but what some manufacturers have gone with OEM.
Ciao
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Awww C'mon, those guys in marketing will tell you anything to sell a bearing or two! :evil:
Paul B :boozing:
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Many years ago, I saw a unique (as least to me) technique where the wheel bearing was cooled in a cup of dry ice. The dry ice made the bearing so cold, (and no condensation to worry about) the installer was able to seat the bearing into place with his (gloved) fingers. I've always wanted to try it, but dry ice isn't readily available where I live.
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Many years ago, I saw a unique (as least to me) technique where the wheel bearing was cooled in a cup of dry ice. The dry ice made the bearing so cold, (and no condensation to worry about) the installer was able to seat the bearing into place with his (gloved) fingers. I've always wanted to try it, but dry ice isn't readily available where I live.
Torch on the hub and dry ice on the bearing and it just falls in. Did that often in the machine shop.
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On the T3 these bearings are 2RS sealed. Diagram shows seals over the bearings. They are part GU90402642 and they only seem to appear on V series wheels.
:thumb:
Thanks for that, I have never seen those bearing carriers with seals fitted, wish I had or thought of it myself 40 years ago .
I’ve been through an awful lot of front wheel bearings in that time, using it as an “adventure bike” in modern speak. Of course, every mx or enduro bike has seals outside of 2rs bearings.
Probably no value to anyone who never leaves the blacktop but definitely worth the unsprung weight penalty if you do.
Added bonus is they hold wheel spacer lightly captive when refitting wheel too.
Good on Guzzi for fitting them to modern V7, that proves it’s not just accountants that run the show.
I hope the V85 TT wheels have them too , good test of design intention.and thinking of longevity over cost.
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We used dry ice a lot in the aircraft shop. The local Safeway grocery store usually had it in stock. Also a heat gun or torch on the housing. When a bearing had an interference fit on a shaft, thrust bearing on a crank, we heated it in hot oil.
kk
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Here’s a fun roadblock: pretty sure the new bearing is seated, and I’m ready to pull out the old bearing that I used as a punch… but I’m having a bit of a hard time getting that old bearing out. I tried heating the hub and cooling the bearing with canned air. The screwdriver just ain’t digging in deep enough between the two bearings, and I’m afraid to really push in for fear of goofing up the new bearing’s inner race.it’s pretty flush, so I don’t think I have it jammed; it’s just super tight.
Thoughts?
(https://i.ibb.co/d4MxM8d/974-AD490-ED71-470-D-9-D79-2-D150-AFA55-DF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d4MxM8d)
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Borrow the free blind bearing puller from NAPA.
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Borrow the free blind bearing puller from NAPA.
I considered this, Ron, but was curious if it might damage the new one that’s already seated.
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Set it so that it only grips the inner race of the old bearing.
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Buy quality American made. Don't buy cheap China bearings.
And do not side load as others said.
This is what happened when I put Chinese bearings (All Balls) in my Griso
The bearing seized and rotated on the shaft, I had a heck of a job extracting the axle.
(https://i.ibb.co/PxrnMN8/DSCN0422.jpg) (https://ibb.co/H7KsCVQ)
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Here’s a fun roadblock: pretty sure the new bearing is seated, and I’m ready to pull out the old bearing that I used as a punch… but I’m having a bit of a hard time getting that old bearing out. I tried heating the hub and cooling the bearing with canned air. The screwdriver just ain’t digging in deep enough between the two bearings, and I’m afraid to really push in for fear of goofing up the new bearing’s inner race.it’s pretty flush, so I don’t think I have it jammed; it’s just super tight.
Thoughts?
(https://i.ibb.co/d4MxM8d/974-AD490-ED71-470-D-9-D79-2-D150-AFA55-DF.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d4MxM8d)
+1 on the blind bearing puller. A great excuse to invest in one. I would flip the hub upside down on a very well padded bench vice and pull the slide hammer downwards. For driving in the bearings a large socket just a bit smaller than the outer race edges works well.
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Here’s a fun roadblock: pretty sure the new bearing is seated, and I’m ready to pull out the old bearing that I used as a punch… but I’m having a bit of a hard time getting that old bearing out. I tried heating the hub and cooling the bearing with canned air. The screwdriver just ain’t digging in deep enough between the two bearings, and I’m afraid to really push in for fear of goofing up the new bearing’s inner race.it’s pretty flush, so I don’t think I have it jammed; it’s just super tight.
Thoughts?
The learning point here is to grind the outer ring of the old bearing you're using to push the new one in so it clears the recess - I did similar to you but was able to get it back out
If you're lucky you might be able to get the edge of the old bearing from the opposite side with a long bar and drift it out. Just go left/right/up/down to make sure it comes out square
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This is what happened when I put Chinese bearings (All Balls) in my Griso
The bearing seized and rotated on the shaft, I had a heck of a job extracting the axle.
(https://i.ibb.co/PxrnMN8/DSCN0422.jpg) (https://ibb.co/H7KsCVQ)
Oh jeez. I thought All Balls was quality. I mean, they’re out of Pennsylvania, so I could only assume as much (home bias withstanding).
The learning point here is to grind the outer ring of the old bearing you're using to push the new one in so it clears the recess
Yep x 5. Grease might’ve been helpful, too. Next attempts will certainly get the grinding.
Borrow the free blind bearing puller from NAPA.
I asked the dudes at the local NAPA store:
“We don’t offer that kind of service here.”
O’Reilly’s had none. Went to AutoZone, and they have a blind bearing puller available for rent, but the edges were pretty knackered. So, the frugality caves in, and I purchased a blind hole bearing remover online.
Lots of great comments in this thread. Thanks again.
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Was able to get the old bearing out pretty easily with the blind bearing puller.
Next and hopefully one of the last questions—
The rear wheels bearings seat against the inner spacer to the point that the spacer is snug. However, the front wheel’s inner spacer is still pretty loose. I can’t recall if it was loose before pulling the old bearings—can that be possible, or is it unheard of for an inner spacer to be fairly loose. Each side has a wall that the bearing stops at, and I THINK I tapped the bearings all the way against.
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Bearings MUST be snug against inner spacer BEFORE they bottom out on outer shoulder. Otherwise when you tighten the axle you will preload the bearings in a thrust direction. They are not designed for thrust loads and will rapidly self destruct.
In an ideal situation (Ural Wheel) the inner spacer and outer shoulder are identical width. The axle clamps the inner races to the inner spacer and the threaded ring clamps the bearings in the hub. Everything stays in alignment.
Moto Guzzi clamps the inner races on the axle and floats the outer races in the hub so they self align.
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I figured, however I thought I had given more than enough taps. Went back and used a small punch along the outer race of each, and now have a snug seating between bearings and spacer. Thanks for the push!
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Bearings MUST be snug against inner spacer BEFORE they bottom out on outer shoulder. Otherwise when you tighten the axle you will preload the bearings in a thrust direction. They are not designed for thrust loads and will rapidly self destruct.
In an ideal situation (Ural Wheel) the inner spacer and outer shoulder are identical width. The axle clamps the inner races to the inner spacer and the threaded ring clamps the bearings in the hub. Everything stays in alignment.
Moto Guzzi clamps the inner races on the axle and floats the outer races in the hub so they self align.
Absolutely correct on all points. Very common on many bikes I've worked on over the years that the spacer is too short and the axle clamping loads cause premature bearing failure. First thing I check when replacing wheel bearings, the spacer length.
Ciao
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I figured, however I thought I had given more than enough taps. Went back and used a small punch along the outer race of each, and now have a snug seating between bearings and spacer. Thanks for the push!
Sounds like you’re gaining on it Dirk. When the bearing is fully seated the tone will be different when driving it (the bearing into the hub, not down the road).