Hydrogen Bikes?

[Guzzi Gal]

Below is an article and a video regarding hydrogen development by motorcycle companies and global hydrogen feasibility. 

https://www.rideapart.com/news/558510/yamaha-kawasaki-hydrogen-engines/

https://youtu.be/GbcXfbRvvrA

[Beowulf]

Ok this is really neat. I love the concept.

[Huzo]

What a great field to work in as an engineer.

[twowheeladdict]

Been hearing about this for the last 35 years. Definitely would be better than raping our lands of non-renewable resources for solar Panels and batteries.

Hope they can make it work.

[ScepticalScotty]

Depends how its done. I love the idea, but hydrogen is not a fuel its a storage medium, and burning it in IC produces more than just water. Unfortunately.

[PeteS]

Burning hydrogen might be clean but making it isn’t. No one has yet come up with a process that uses less energy than the hydrogen itself produces. 1000s of people are trying but to my knowledge no one has succeeded. Not unlike fusion energy.
Close but no cigar.

Pete

[twowheeladdict]

Depends how its done. I love the idea, but hydrogen is not a fuel its a storage medium, and burning it in IC produces more than just water. Unfortunately.

Please elaborate. According to my searches, it is indeed a fuel that when burned with oxygen produces the byproduct H20.

Are you talking about a different use where there is more than just Hydrogen and Oxygen in the combustion chamber?

[twowheeladdict]

Burning hydrogen might be clean but making it isn’t. No one has yet come up with a process that uses less energy than the hydrogen itself produces. 1000s of people are trying but to my knowledge no one has succeeded. Not unlike fusion energy.
Close but no cigar.

Pete

Although nuclear energy can be used to process the hydrogen to be used as fuel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel#Production

[ScepticalScotty]

I suppose I am thinking of conventional I/C engines that are air breathing not oxygen breathing. Rockets sometimes just use LOX and hydrogen, but never heard of a car or a bike doing it. There's a a great Youtube vid explaining the problems. Now to be fair, I reckon those problems are a lot less than the non-renewable fossil fuels we use right now.

[ScepticalScotty]

Not a bad summary;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_internal_combustion_engine_vehicle

If something like a V100 had (running at the least polluting ratio of hydrogen to air) half the HP of a petrol V100, and could go 75% as far....I could live with that in the future.

[guzzisteve]

What works is a reactor that takes H out of H2O and burns it as fuel and emits O into the air. No smaller than a buss is the size now.

[PeteS]

Although nuclear energy can be used to process the hydrogen to be used as fuel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel#Production

Nuclear plants aren’t cheap and using the electricity they produce for electrolysis is at best 86% efficient. For Hydrogen fuel to be viable a process it has to better than 100% efficient.
I worked twenty years with chemists who were using narrow spectrum light from LEDs to generate hydrogen from compounds  they were creating. The idea is if a suitable compounds could be created then filtered sunlight could be the power source.

Pete

[guzziart]

I like the idea of green H (liquid or gas), it would give those wind farms something to do during off peak times.  There are some hurdles to overcome like storage because of the small molecule size, NOx when used by ice, infrastructure, etc.    Anyway, I hope that as time marches on,  technology can overcome some of the H problems before we have to determine what to do with a bazillion spent EV batteries chock full of hazmat and other strip mining byproducts. 

[coast range rider]

How big would the hydrogen fuel tank have to be to make my bike 100 lbs lighter?

[twowheeladdict]

Nuclear plants aren’t cheap and using the electricity they produce for electrolysis is at best 86% efficient. For Hydrogen fuel to be viable a process it has to better than 100% efficient.
I worked twenty years with chemists who were using narrow spectrum light from LEDs to generate hydrogen from compounds  they were creating. The idea is if a suitable compounds could be created then filtered sunlight could be the power source.

Pete

If something has to be better than 100% efficient, well then, I guess we will never see that the until the laws of Thermodynamics and Physics change. 

[AH Fan]

I like the idea of green H (liquid or gas), it would give those wind farms something to do during off peak times.  There are some hurdles to overcome like storage because of the small molecule size, NOx when used by ice, infrastructure, etc.    Anyway, I hope that as time marches on,  technology can overcome some of the H problems before we have to determine what to do with a bazillion spent EV batteries chock full of hazmat and other strip mining byproducts.

Agreed.......... as well as all the sheeple getting schooled on the present electric rage.

Ciao

[Kiwi_Roy]

I worked on a prototype plant for producing Hydrogen from Natural gas by filtering through a metal membrane
The problem is it then has to be compressed for storage at high pressure.
Hydrogen doesn't have to be burnt, it can be used in a fuel cell. We had a number of Hydrogen powered busses here in Vancouver using Ballard fuel cells
Its quite common for forklift trucks to use Hydrogen and a fuel cell.
https://www.ballard.com/fuel-cell-solutions/fuel-cell-power-products

[PeteS]

If something has to be better than 100% efficient, well then, I guess we will never see that the until the laws of Thermodynamics and Physics change.

You are missing the point. Until there is a carbon free method to produce a fuel it will never be a green alternative.
Unlike methane which we can just pump out of the ground you have to extract hydrogen.

Pete

[twowheeladdict]

You are missing the point. Until there is a carbon free method to produce a fuel it will never be a green alternative.
Unlike methane which we can just pump out of the ground you have to extract hydrogen.

Pete

Why didn't you just say that then Pete instead of focusing on "more than 100% efficiency"?

Are you saying that there is no method of extracting hydrogen that doesn't create carbon emissions?  Or are you saying you don't know of any method? 

[JJ]

Large hydrogen BLIMPS?!?  (Maybe not such a good idea....)






temporary picture sharing

[henwilv]

This is sort of relevant and might be of interest to some - it's an interesting video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Q7nAYjAJY

[DesertPilot]

"Oh the humanity!"

Hey, someone had to say it 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Unlike methane which we can just pump out of the ground you have to extract hydrogen.

Uhh, methane is one of the worst factors in climate change.. (shrug)

[Tom]

Y'ep.  My former boss had a methane problem.  A real no class guy.     He would let it rip anywhere.  Anytime.     I finally did a climate change.   

[huub]

making hydrogen from electricity has a effiniency of 30%
so using the same electricity to charge your electric car will get you at least twice as far.
on top of that, hydrogen is explosive , and extremely hard to store.
( not even glass is dense enough to store hydrogen)
so a bike is not the best place to store hydrogen.

If it sounds too good to be true , it usually is.

[cliffrod]

making hydrogen from electricity has a effiniency of 30%
so using the same electricity to charge your electric car will get you at least twice as far.
on top of that, hydrogen is explosive , and extremely hard to store.
( not even glass is dense enough to store hydrogen)
so a bike is not the best place to store hydrogen.

If it sounds too good to be true , it usually is.

As I began oxy/hyd welding, I was told to plan to work in a timely fashion.   With Oxygen and Acetylene, storing spare full tanks until they're needed is not a problem.    Hydrogen is so much smaller that it will slowly pass through the steel walls of the tanks at the molecular level.  Get it and use it or lose it...   Even if you can generate it efficiently, it isn't practical to store long term because it is smaller than everything else. 

[Chuck in Indiana]

3 types of hydrogen production..and yes, I agree that hydrogen is the fuel of the future, but we need to quit burning fossil fuels now. (actually 20 years ago.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbcXfbRvvrA

[yogidozer]

And if your bike backfires?



free hosting pictures

[twowheeladdict]

making hydrogen from electricity has a effiniency of 30%
so using the same electricity to charge your electric car will get you at least twice as far.
on top of that, hydrogen is explosive , and extremely hard to store.
( not even glass is dense enough to store hydrogen)
so a bike is not the best place to store hydrogen.

If it sounds too good to be true , it usually is.

Efficiency based on what?  The energy contained in a ton of coal? 

By the time electricity reaches your home the efficiency is already pretty low with all the losses in the transmission lines.

Wouldn't "If it sounds too good to be true , it usually is." apply to EV motorcycles as well?