Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: oldbike54 on September 29, 2017, 07:44:31 PM
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OK , something quite odd is going on with my Jackal . Everything was fine until I decided to do some tail light repair , haven't touched the wiring only pulled a bulb . Noticed the brake light was staying on after replacing the bulb , thought maybe the switch was just stuck . Nope , now when the rear pedal is engaged the brake light goes off . Also noticed that the dash lights are NOT lighting up until the rear pedal is depressed :huh: The pump and head light are coming on with the key . It has to be a short somewhere , but no fuses are blowing . Any ideas besides maybe a fairy is inhabiting the system ?
Dusty
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Bad ground, causing circuits to find alternate routes back to the battery?
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Bad ground, causing circuits to find alternate routes back to the battery?
Yeah , will check that . It was all working before pulling that bulb . Hate this kind of thing .
Dusty
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It’s faeries.
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If it's a double-element bulb, check to see that it's seated correctly. But I agree that it sounds like a ground problem. You can check that by using a jumper wire to a reliable ground source (like the battery).
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It�s faeries.
Mark , would you be kind enough to send some of that Beetle Brand Faerie Remover/Repellent (tm)?
I don't want to harm them , just to relocate them .
Dusty
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You just need to leave a saucer of milk beside the Jackal.
Simples!
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He's in Oklahoma, Beetle. They don't have those things there. I looked.
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I don’t know a real lot about Okie faeries, but I would imagine a glass of beer might work too. Preferably dark ale or stout. Drink one yourself, first, of course. It’s courteous.
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:laugh:
You guys are a lotta help :rolleyes:
Dusty
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I vote on the goofy ground action too. You have to knock the funk off a bike every now and then Dusty :afro:
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You should check to see if you Dustified the tail light. Pull the new bulb.
More helpful? :laugh:
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I vote on the goofy ground action too. You have to knock the funk off a bike every now and then Dusty :afro:
Oddly enough I just cleaned everything a couple of weeks back , maybe it's the new upholstery :shocked: Seriously , the only thing I did was pull the tail light lens to replace the missing socket , which hasn't been done yet , and move the headlight bucket up just a skosh , like 1 degree . Tomorrow I'll sort it out .
Dusty
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Oddly enough I just cleaned everything a couple of weeks back , maybe it's the new upholstery :shocked: Seriously , the only thing I did was pull the tail light lens to replace the missing socket , which hasn't been done yet , and move the headlight bucket up just a skosh , like 1 degree . Tomorrow I'll sort it out .
Dusty
Are you back to wearing that layer of TIN-foil under yer skid lid again? :bike-037:
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Are you back to wearing that layer of TIN-foil under yer skid lid again? :bike-037:
Asbestos , tin foil was causing too much static .
Dusty
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OK , something quite odd is going on with my Jackal . Everything was fine until I decided to do some tail light repair , haven't touched the wiring only pulled a bulb . Noticed the brake light was staying on after replacing the bulb , thought maybe the switch was just stuck . Nope , now when the rear pedal is engaged the brake light goes off . Also noticed that the dash lights are NOT lighting up until the rear pedal is depressed :huh: The pump and head light are coming on with the key . It has to be a short somewhere , but no fuses are blowing . Any ideas besides maybe a fairy is inhabiting the system ?
Dusty
Just a thought, try a different bulb?? Could be a bad one.
What was the repair??
Good luck,
Tom
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Just a thought, try a different bulb?? Could be a bad one.
What was the repair??
Good luck,
Tom
That would be the 1st think to check <shrug>
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Already tried that , it isn't the bulb . What is baffling is that the system is working in reverse , switch activated and the brake light is deactivated , and for some reason the dash and headlight are only working with the brake light switch activated . I actually believe it may be related to the ever so slight upward rotation of the headlight bucket .
Dusty
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Oh -- working in reverse. Gotcha. That's easy.
Go the other way. :grin:
If the movement up front disturbed a ground, then yes, all or any of the stuff that swings with the handlebar could be trying to ground through the brakes circuit. Think generator idiot light -- except the brake bulb is the idiot light and the power from any or all of the swinging stuff is the charging system. Now add a brake switch to control it, and there you go.
Grounds are always neglected in troubleshooting, but they're always as suspect as anything else. Your grounding lug is I think under the left side trim plate forward of the tank. It's a cluster of black wires, mostly small gauge. The bolt is probably loose. Should be an easy fix, unless you broke some.
The real fix is probably to toss the Jackal tail lights and bolt on a tractor tail light. Then you won't have all those aromatic red herring in the story. Put a couple of D-rings on the bracket and you can carry more stuff.
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Yeah , but then the neighborhood cats won't follow me home everyday . OH MEOW :food:
Dusty
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Do you have the stock double light as shown?
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2000_Jackal.gif
or the single like this EV?
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1998_EV.gif
Note how there's a wire connecting the tip light to the park and dash lamps.
Visualize what happens if part of the black wire is missing (not connected) between lamps.
I can pretty much guarantee you are missing a ground there somewhere and it's grounding through another lamp, perhaps even the left and right flashers to the front.
I could guess all day how its happening but at the end of the day you still need to ground it properly.
Instead of jumping from lamp to lamp as shown each lamp should have it's own ground connected in star fashion that way its impossible for the juice to go through 2 lamps in series.
The star point needs to be run back to a good ground on the main chassis, perhaps a gearbox bolt.
Use petroleum jelly aka Vaseline on all the connections and splices, that will stop the wires rotting away in a couple of years.
While you are at it go over the grounds around the headlight and dash.
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If the bulb is simply removed, does all else act normal? No doubt you have considered this, but I thought I would mention it anyway, just in case. Next would be metering the leads in the tail light assembly. If you had wires disconnected from the socket(s), perhaps they ended up in the wrong place on reassembly. Also, even though you didn't mess with it, the wires, once they go under the fender with the tire, have been known to get rubbed through and cause weird things to happen such as you describe.
And finally, when was the last time you waved a rubber chicken over the bike? If it has been a while, you might be experiencing lakachicken syndrome.
John Henry
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Lackachicken syndrome :laugh: Wait ... is that like real thing ?
The wiring going to the "empannage" (for you A/C types) has been moved outside of the fender , although I am gonna check there first , because it's easy :laugh:
Dusty
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Let's hope you didn't let the Okie Faerie Fart Smoke out. Sounds like rusty grounds to me.
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, and for some reason the dash and headlight are only working with the brake light switch activated .
Dusty
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Perhaps you should start by adding a decent ground to the headlight, I usually run one from the headlight bucket around the steering head to the main chassis skipping the connector
When you put the brake on you are grounding the headlight through left and right blinkers
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Thanks Roy , am in the process of checking the grounds and running an extra lead , allergies kicking my tush , makes me slow .
Dusty
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From Dusty,
allergies kicking my tush , makes me slow .
Marley's suffering the same with you.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/koFbiw/DSC04876.jpg) (http://ibb.co/koFbiw)
GliderJohn
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From Dusty,Marley's suffering the same with you.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/koFbiw/DSC04876.jpg) (http://ibb.co/koFbiw)
GliderJohn
Gonna have to visit Marley again , give him a pat from me :thumb:
Dusty
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Marley says you're welcome anytime.
GliderJohn
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Lackachicken syndrome :laugh: Wait ... is that like real thing ?
The wiring going to the "empannage" (for you A/C types) has been moved outside of the fender , although I am gonna check there first , because it's easy :laugh:
Dusty
Dusty, the only thing worse than lackachicken syndrome is lackanookie disease. Either will distort your mojo, but lackanookie disease can make you grumpy, too. Nobody wants that!
Roy I think has the best solution -- rather than trace each of the little grounds coming off that lug I mentioned earlier, run a 12ga wire from the headlight mount/triple clamp area to the frame. What you're trying to accomplish is bypassing the need for any grounding contact between the steering portion and frame. You can test the effectiveness of any two points with a jumper wire. If you use the jumper and the problem fixes itself, tie the wire to those points.
I used Roy's "star" (we call it "home runs") theory when I built the trike. I have a pair of buss bars (one near the steering head and one near the rear axle) that collect individual ground wires from every circuit. The bars then communicate with a battery cutout switch and the switch connects a single ground cable to the battery. This gives two advantages -- first, as Roy says, you can't feed back one circuit into another, and B, I can immobilize the bike and isolate the battery by tripping the cutout switch. I'd do something like that if I had the time and a persistent problem with grounds.
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Well? You get rid of those faeries yet?
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Well? You get rid of those faeries yet?
Yes , had a broken wire .
Dusty
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Yes , had a broken wire .
Dusty
Which one?
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Which one?
A little green/black one :rolleyes:
Dusty
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A little green/black one :rolleyes:
Dusty
I was asking because I'd missed the original thread and just read through it. I figured that since more than a few people were speculating on why the symptoms were showing up that way that perhaps knowing which part of the circuit was causing the problem might help them understand it for future troubleshooting.
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I'm calling you next time, oh wait, want to go to OH and install turn signals on a 93 Cali? The Lil Blue Man has been asking me to come up and fix. It's only been 5yrs waiting. Now you're the tail lite expert.
Glad you got it done.
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I was asking because I'd missed the original thread and just read through it. I figured that since more than a few people were speculating on why the symptoms were showing up that way that perhaps knowing which part of the circuit was causing the problem might help them understand it for future troubleshooting.
Yes please elaborate
was it around the steering head
how many miles on the bike?
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Hell, thats L/H blinker, so, it was back feed.
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I'll try to elaborate , although my skills with electrical stuff is EXTREMELY limited .
Some of you may remember my breakdown in Bristow OK a couple of years back . The board went to work as it always does and helped solve the problem . Anyway , this was related , for some reason Guzzi does not do a very good job routing all of the wiring around the steering head , there had already been a fix done when the bike was new , and a this wire had pulled out of a cheap bullet connector . Anyway , the same wire broke at a different spot , it appears to control both the brake light circuit and at least one blinker . So I bypassed a long somewhat brittle section, and spliced in a new section of wire . That , combined with a loose wire in the tail light body seemed to be causing the entire problem . Anyway , have pulled apart and cleaned the 3 main multi pin connectors under the plastic cover at the front right of the frame , repaired a tail light socket , and now soon will be moving onto the handlebar switches and headlight . None of this work is necessarily pretty , used an old piece of innertube wrapped around a section of the main harness as extra insulation and for abrasion resistance , but the old Jackal , like its rider , ain't pretty to begin with :laugh:
I really do want to thank the experts who have helped both times , this place is amazing .
Dusty
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The wires around the steering head are a weak point, that's why I asked about the mileage.
If the wires bend at one spot the copper work hardens, goes brittle and snaps, I helped my riding buddy with his 70s Kawasaki, it had 4 broken wires. It's quite easy to find them, just reef on them one wire at a time and they will give at the break point.
It's best not to strap them together tightly where they flex just leave them gently twist over several inches. that way as one part of the copper goes hard it distributes the flexing further along, just like a bad back :smiley:
Really, I think the connectors are just there to help Luigi assemble the bike, when do you ever need to unplug them, nothing wrong with just splicing the main loom to the headlight etc.
If you have headlight relays in the bucket an old computer mouse or keyboard cable is great for wiring to the switches. I say with relays because I wouldn't like to run 5 Amps through it, fine for the 100mA that a relay coil draws
Don't worry what it looks like but for gawds sake no wire nuts LOL
Another thing I like to do with an older bike is add a fat fuse at the battery to the red wire feeding the ignition switch, all that un-fused wiring makes the sparky in me cringe.
Fusing the red wire has a bonus, it's a great source of high power at the headlight bucket for your headlight relays, don't even need fuses at that end
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No wire nuts Roy :laugh:
Actually I have a decent enough grasp on 'lecrtical magic , just that old eyes can make it hard to see those little wires . A guy brought me an old Triumph years ago that wouldn't run , he had used wire nuts and tape everywhere . A complete do over was necessary , but with those old things it only took about 8 wires total to make them work .
Dusty
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Dusty, get yourself a jar a "Diode Powder." Made by Kenveco Electronics. It's got that nano-diode technology that makes the electricity flow in the correct direction. Good stuff, but not cheap.
I think it comes in a spray can now.