How much to charge ?

[oldbike54]

 An old acquaintance is considering putting a restaurant in a small town in Eastern Tennessee , despite my advice to simply give his money away  Anyway , he contacted me this morning about travelling out and helping set it up . He is retired from the military , and does have some resources , although I wouldn't call him rich .

 So here is the tentative plan , and the reason for my question . His schedule is to begin in early Sept, usually a time of decent weather , thinking a nice motorcycle trip across AR and TN , 3 days or so both directions , camp out , eat cheap , a week or so of 6 hr days working , mostly installing the kitchen in a design that actually works instead of some architects fantasy . We are already in the process of hunting down some used 40 LB friars , a working used vent hood , some tables and chairs, all of the stuff needed to set up a 100 person capacity operation . Thinking since he asked , and I do in fact have expertise , charging some travel expenses , and X dollars a day seems fair . In today's economy , what do you folks believe is fair , considering he is gonna have to pay someone to lend some real working knowledge to make this happen . Not trying get rich , but thinking fair is fair . Help me out here .

 Thanks

 Dusty

[Farmer Dan]

Last company that paid me for that sort of thing gave me 25 cents a mile, $50 a day for meals, $75 for hotel and $15.50 an hour labor/driving.  That was about 10 years ago.

[Triple Jim]

What you deserve and what he has in mind to pay you may be very different.  Why not ask him what level of compensation for you he has available in his budget?  I've seen some cases in which the guy in your position thinks he's made a very fair request, and the guy in your friend's position expected to get volunteer help.

[Tom]

 :1: w/Triple Jim.  Best thing is a contract of work expected and pay.  This could be the end of your "old acquaintance".  I'm thinking that he wants help and not pay for the work. 

[oldbike54]

 I explained that this was gonna cost him some money . Planned on camping on location , there is a rudimentary shower available , his wife has offered to feed me during the stay . Yes , he may be expecting some "free" labor , but at 63 I simply don't do that anymore . $15.50 an hour , plus maybe $200.00 travel seems reasonable , cheap even in today's economy . He mentioned the idea that since I motorcycle tour anyway ... problem is going East from here is not the norm , and while AR and TN are fine , if I was gonna take an 1,800 mile road trip it would be to the Rocky mountains .

 Dusty

[lucian]

How bout free fried food for life?   

[mojohand]

plan on $.55/mile for travel to and from. Charge a day rate for your labor, and add actual travel expenses on top of that. or, you can do a rate of $150/day plus mileage, allowing you to absorb your travel and spend whatever you want.

A 40-lb friar is awfully thin--I thought they ate well ;)

[oldbike54]

 You guys are cracking me up  Yeah , it should be fryer , not friar . Need a nap 

 Dusty

[redrider90]

His wife is going to feed you but no bed with hot shower? Nah that has to included. Does the guy not have a room at his house to offer you?
What is the going rate in his area for someone to put in a commercial kitchen? NY City vs small town TN is a huge difference. TN is a very long state. Can he buy your services locally and not have to pay someone for traveling hundreds of miles + room and board?  I assume he has the tools if are on 2 wheels? Is some of this friendship and some of it business? If he can buy the services locally cheaper than bringing you out then why is he asking you to come out?  Mixing friendship + business means that you might have to give up something or he might have to pay more. Or you split he difference.
I paid a guy to come from Wash DC to evaluate my house for a mold problem. I was quite sick and most mold remediators are basically junk yard guys. You really need an expert. I paid him his hourly rate to drive down from DC spend 3 hours at my house and then the drive back. We fed him. But this was a very highly trained professional in an area that not a lot of people are qualified to do the work. It was not cheap.

So you called him an acquaintance and not a friend. Why does he want your talents and not someone local? Are you going to take a hit in the wallet and give up work at home to drive there and back?

[Triple Jim]

His wife is going to feed you but no bed with hot shower? Nah that has to included. Does the guy not have a room at his house to offer you?

Good point... it would be pretty bad for someone to expect you go travel to his place and work, and not at least give you room and board as part of the deal.

[Shorty]

Tell him to get estimates for the work from at least 3 local contractors.  Insist on a roof over your head, 3 squares a day, at his expense. Then look at the estimates he provides. If you can beat his estimates, and enjoy the work, not go broke on travel expenses,  offer him a price. If not, 'c'est le vie.

[LowRyter]

Great motorcycling country.  Hope you can get to the Dragon (+ Hwy 28 to Highland) and Skyway.   

Good luck on your venture.   

[guzzisteve]

Don't forget a 1099, can't cheat Uncle Sammy.
Make sure you go home w/a grand after all expenses.

[PJPR01]

And some Advil for all that riding you'll do!!

[redrider90]

$200 per 8hr day ($150 for 6hr day) including travel days, plus gas and tolls. If you are camping on location then they should supply meals. If you plan on using motels, then they should pay for lodging and you pay for your meals.
I think you are shortchanging yourself at $15 or so per hour.
Just my $.02

Actually that comes out to $25/hour which is still cheap.

[Tom]

Salary or on the clock?  What about liability if his used stuff doesn't work?  Are you responsible for only the installation?  What permits are required?  Who signs off?  You'll be liable.   

[Chuck in Indiana]

$200 a day plus expenses. Expenses include a decent motel (doesn't have to be a Hagan quality one)  fuel, food.

[sign216]

I say go on a motorcycle trip in the opposite direction and don't get involved. Keep friendship and business well separated.

I am leaning towards this.  But I'm a pessimist. 

Yesterday I spoke with my brother about some business deals, and his quote was "you know it's a fair compromise if no one's happy." 

[Steph]

If he is a friend $200/day (that's actually the going London rate for a basic labourer off the boat here).

I've heard it so many time: retire, thinking a restaurant business would work when they know nothing about restaurants. Has he got a plan? Like, I'd like to clear 40k a year after expenses therefore I need to sell at least 50 burgers & fries each day?

Considering your friend may have a 50/50 chance losing his pension savings in it, I'd ride in the other direction

[oldbike54]

 Some interesting responses 

 Dusty

[leafman60]

I agree with Trip Jim and Tom's early comments.

If this guy is any sort of friend, and you are thinking about getting money out of him, this could have the recipe for a disaster insofar as the friendship is concerned. Maybe this is not the case.

[Tom]

The biggest premise to factor in.  Can this guy cook?  Going into business may seem like a good idea but staying in business is another requirement and has nothing to do with the first.

He might be watching too much tv on the Food Channel or Travel Channel.  What is his idea for the theme of the restaurant?  Burger & fries?  Cafe?  If he's going this way, I'd say that he's going down a deadend.

[John Ulrich]

I explained that this was gonna cost him some money . Planned on camping on location , there is a rudimentary shower available , his wife has offered to feed me during the stay . Yes , he may be expecting some "free" labor , but at 63 I simply don't do that anymore . $15.50 an hour , plus maybe $200.00 travel seems reasonable
 Dusty

You're making it too complicated.  Give him one price that includes labor, trip, gas, beer.  Call him and see what he's thinking for your time & talent.  Be up front with your price to show up.

[oldbike54]

You're making it too complicated.  Give him one price that includes labor, trip, gas, beer.  Call him and see what he's thinking for your time & talent.  Be up front with your price to show up.

 Wish that was possible , but there are always unknowns . We aren't really friends, he only knows me by reputation from years ago , he wants to copy a theme we were doing 30 years ago . Trust me , I tried to talk him out of the idea , but he is insistent . Really just curious what some of you retired guys think is a fair daily price plus expenses for sharing hard earned expertise and some labor . I like the $200.00 a day rate , plus travel expenses . Don't mind living rough for the 2 weeks total , just need basic facilities and 3 meals a day , nothing fancy .

 Dusty

[tris]

I would have expected "mates rates" to include grub and accommodation as a minimum.

The question then is wether you can or want to spend your money on the fuel (plus a couple of nights accommodation on the road) to get there

[Huzo]

It's a good topic for conversation Dusty, but you are obviously battling conflicting emotions or you wouldn't have floated the topic. Clearly you don't want to be seen to profit from a friendship, but you also have to think of yourself. If it was a good idea, the answer would present itself to you and instantly look attractive. I'd take the earlier advice and go for a ride in the opposite direction. No matter what you do, you will end up cheating either him, or yourself. Most likely the latter...The only way I see that you can keep your conscience intact, is to help him for free and only accept what he offers and leave the mental wrangling to him, you're the one doing the work.

[pete roper]

Bugger it! Hold him upside down and shake him till nothing but moths fall out of his pockets!

[rocker59]

I say go on a motorcycle trip in the opposite direction and don't get involved. Keep friendship and business well separated.

Best idea, so far!   

[screamday]

I say go on a motorcycle trip in the opposite direction and don't get involved. Keep friendship and business well separated.

Another vote for this idea. 

[Texas Turnip]

Dusty,
If you go and help him out by listening to my advise and lose your posterior, you'll be mad at me and threaten to come to Texas and hiss on my turnips.

And if I tell you to stay home, you'll be mad at me for not making the extra money (maybe) and my turnips will have Okie hiss on them.

You know the food industry has the highest failure rate of any business. Yet, there is the old adage of, it is better to tried and failed than to not have tried. (That is what I thought when I married my 6th wife). It lasted 13 months.

Good luck in your decision,
Tex