Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bulldog9 on March 14, 2019, 05:52:59 PM
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My 'cage' is a 2017 Toyota Tundra TRD PRO. My first (and only) truck and love it. So while I was in San Antonio for work, and took a ride down to the Factory. As luck would have it, I arrived just in time to get a tour of the factory.
Overall an interesting experience, my first tour of a modern auto manufacturing plant. A few takeaways.
- Orientation video presentation was dated (2005-5006), all vehicles including the lead/tour truck were last Gen Tundra and 2 generation old Tacomas. Not a drop of info on future models or innovations. No real displays in the 'learning center' no brochures, or future development glam, brochures, etc. It was pretty spartan in that regard.
- Tour of the factory is by seated trolley that takes you around the factory floor, mostly focused on final assembly and a brief look at the body stamping and plastic injection mold areas. Engines arrive about 80% complete from their plants in Alabama and Arkansas.
- Very clean and orderly system, lots of happy faces and a real interesting process that includes conveyors, human trolleys and robot shuttles moving parts all around the factory with an 'on time' process that only keeps what is needed for a 2 hour block of time ready at hand. Seemed very efficient.
- Was interesting to see Tacomas and Tundras of all manner of color and configuration rolling on the lines, and amazed to see how all the needed parts were on carts or cradles and synced perfectly. Only saw one PRO model Tacoma and Tundra while on the tour, and I really liked seeing the chassis frame and suspension assembled sans body. Also saw how they attach the cab & bed to the frame. Both are lowered at the same time and with a healthy clunk perfectly placed. Process is so precise they are able to do it with the bumpers ALREADY bolted to the frame. Body and bed drop right in as a unit.... Very impressive.
- According to the tour guides a new Truck rolls off the line every 60 seconds, and the plant is open 5 days a week running on two 8-9 hour shifts, with maintenance and checks in between. Plant shuts down 2X a year for model year changes, and upgrades.
-Most interesting fact for me was Toyota does not build and store/hold onsight, then sell, they only build what is already committed/sold, and every truck is shipped to its destination within 24 hours of rolling off the line. Of course dealer networks have set patters of what they buy, and how they configure vehicles largely for their market, but I found it intriguing that Toyota builds to order, pre-sold, not builds and tries to sell. To me this makes ordering the Exact truck you want possible if you can get with a dealer before their ordering cycle. This is likely why we dont find a ton of left over Tundras on dealers lots (like Chevy Ford, etc). At least that is what they are claiming. There is a second Tacoma plant in California to meet demand.
Tour lasts a bit over an hour, and was interesting, but NOT worth a major diversion or intentional trip. You are supposed to make a reservation before arriving, but they had nothing all week when I called, but decided a walk on was worth the attempt. Worked out for me. What didn't was getting to the airport only to discover my flight (737-800M) was cancelled. Now courtesy of American Airlines I get to spend the night at the Hilton and fly home tomorrow.
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I had a 2010 and now a 2017 also. Love them.
Build to order, that's why if you can get a 10% off deal you did very well. And why the resale is so good.
I suspect there are more US made components in a Tundra than in the Chinese Chevys. let the hate mail begin.
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Vehicle final assembly plants are no longer all that interesting IMHO - all the real work is done elsewhere. A few years ago I toured the VW Phaeton plant in Dresden and it was less an interesting industrial plant than a VW PR stunt.
Guzzi in Mandello is still interesting, especially given the history, but less so than 20-25 years ago. A friend worked for Ducati Corse and gave a tour of the plant, a few years pre VW. It would have been interesting if he'd been able to take us into the race shop but otherwise not too memorable, and the museum is nothing compared with Mandello.
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I think they also make the frame, bodypanels, paint, and all the interior pieces onsite in the factory as well. They mentioned a whole wing with onsite shops for interior, seats, trim, and all plastics molded on site. No tours of the manufacturing areas though.
Vehicle final assembly plants are no longer all that interesting IMHO - all the real work is done elsewhere. A few years ago I toured the VW Phaeton plant in Dresden and it was less an interesting industrial plant than a VW PR stunt.
Guzzi in Mandello is still interesting, especially given the history, but less so than 20-25 years ago. A friend worked for Ducati Corse and gave a tour of the plant, a few years pre VW. It would have been interesting if he'd been able to take us into the race shop but otherwise not too memorable, and the museum is nothing compared with Mandello.
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I find it interesting that Toyota and Nissan full size trucks have never made dent in the US market in over 10 years, unlike their small trucks and cars...Considering just what is called 1/2 ton trucks, Ford, GM and Dodge together sell 10 trucks for each one sold by Toyota and Nissan together...
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My 1st Toyota was a 2000 Tacoma SR5 xtra cab 4x4 I bought in 2003 w/ 26,000 miles on the ODO. Kept it 14 years and sold it with 80,000 miles on it within 2 days to a guy in Kansas. Truck ran great but after 14 years I was tired of looking at the same vehicle.
The old Tacoma was replaced it with a new 2017 Tacoma TRD Sport 4 door and what a difference 17 years makes. The 2017 has a 130+ HP advantage over the 2000 much more comfortable and get better fuel economy.
Earlier this week the wife and I have started looking at 2019 4-Runners SR5 Premium to replace her Honda CR-V.
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Sure, you can order, but don't expect to configure it exactly how you want it.
My huge frustration with manufacturers is that you can't mix and match features. You want adjustable lumbar support? You have to buy the upscale model and pay for all the other crap you don't want.
You want the big engine in a "work truck" package? No, sorry, that is reserved for the top of the line model.
Trucks today have become luxury vehicles and most people rarely if ever haul or tow anything with them.
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Trucks today have become luxury vehicles and most people rarely if ever haul or tow anything with them.
Maybe it's a regional thing. Not really true, in my part of the country.
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I find it interesting that Toyota and Nissan full size trucks have never made dent in the US market in over 10 years, unlike their small trucks and cars...Considering just what is called 1/2 ton trucks, Ford, GM and Dodge together sell 10 trucks for each one sold by Toyota and Nissan together...
20 years from now the roles will be reversed just like the cars. They deliberately take there time rather than rush in to take the market by storm.
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20 years from now the roles will be reversed just like the cars. They deliberately take there time rather than rush in to take the market by storm.
mid-size and full-size trucks have different customer demographics. So far, the Japanese are selling their full-size trucks to their former mid-size owners. They're not really breaking in to the traditional full-size demographic.
The Japanese have owned the small to mid-sized truck market since the 1970s. Full-size Tundra and Titan have a LONG way to go.
Every now and then I see a full-size Japanese truck. Sometimes they even have a trailer hooked up, or a load in them. They always seem out of place in the sea of GMC, Ford, and RAM trucks...
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mid-size and full-size trucks have different customer demographics. So far, the Japanese are selling their full-size trucks to their former mid-size owners. They're not really breaking in to the traditional full-size demographic.
The Japanese have owned the small to mid-sized truck market since the 1970s. Full-size Tundra and Titan have a LONG way to go.
Every now and then I see a full-size Japanese truck. Sometimes they even have a trailer hooked up, or a load in them. They always seem out of place in the sea of GMC, Ford, and RAM trucks...
When Toyota released their second generation Tundra in 2007 it equaled or beat all of the gas powered 1/2 tons in just about every category including the 11,000 lb towing capacity and gas mileage. Only the diesels beat it. Since then they have added little and the others have upped the ante.
Unfortunately Toyota never put the build quality into their trucks like their cars. 5.7 motors had an issue with emissions systems that could cost their owner well over $5K to fix if past warranty and the frames still had the rust issue of the early 2000s Tacomas.
My 2007, with all its flaws was still far better than the 4 Fords I had before.
Pete
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When Toyota released their second generation Tundra in 2007 it equaled or beat all of the gas powered 1/2 tons in just about every category
Except the one that counts: sales. and 12 years later, that fact remains.
They simply cannot sell full-sized trucks competitively in The USA.
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Maybe it's a regional thing. Not really true, in my part of the country.
Where I am fully loaded crew cab short bed trucks far outsell the competition and the number of 3/4 ton fully loaded crew cab diesel trucks that don't even have a hitch in the receiver is astounding. They have become status symbols. I was getting work done on my wife's little buick and the dealer gave me a $60,000 truck as a loaner. That truck even blew cold air up your arse! My first house cost just over $60k.
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the number of 3/4 ton fully loaded crew cab diesel trucks that don't even have a hitch in the receiver is astounding.
I remove the hitch coupler from the receiver every time I unhook my trailer. Keeps people from banging their knees and getting greasy. Pull the pin and either put it in the trailer, or in the bed of the truck.
So, you might look scornfully upon my GMC 3500 dually, since it can be seen occasionally with no trailer, and with no hitch coupler in the receiver.
:wink:
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I remove the hitch coupler from the receiver every time I unhook my trailer. Keeps people from banging their knees and getting greasy. Pull the pin and either put it in the trailer, or in the bed of the truck.
So, you might look scornfully upon my GMC 3500 dually, since it can be seen occasionally with no trailer, and with no hitch coupler in the receiver.
:wink:
You can easily tell the trucks that have never had a hitch in the receiver. :)
I believe Illinois has a law about leaving the hitch in the receiver that will side with the pedestrian who bangs their leg and/or soils their pants on the hitch in a parking lot and files a claim.
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You can easily tell the trucks that have never had a hitch in the receiver. :)
I believe Illinois has a law about leaving the hitch in the receiver that will side with the pedestrian who bangs their leg and/or soils their pants on the hitch in a parking lot and files a claim.
My Tacoma is one of them. Of course I don't own a trailer so why would it.
The big thing around here is to have a 10" lift on your $98,000 coal rollin' diesel truck with a 15" drop 1-7/8" ball hitch for pulling you 4x8 ATV trailer around.
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My Tacoma is one of them. Of course I don't own a trailer so why would it.
Thank you for making my point Perazz. :)
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Thank you for making my point Perazz. :)
That not everyone that has a truck owns or uses a trailer? My Tacoma is the "sport" variant and I've never done track days with it :shocked:
I've had company E350 & F150 work trucks since 2004 that I've driven 100's of thousands of miles combined and I can think of only maybe 4 times total I've had a trailer connected to any of them.
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My wife and I just pick up an 09 Tacoma SR5 2WD 4cyl with 98K on it,except for the soft brakes it drives like new. Light years ahead of my old S10, well except for that 4.3 motor in the S10 but we sold the boat so it should be okay.
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My wife and I just pick up an 09 Tacoma SR5 2WD 4cyl with 98K on it,except for the soft brakes it drives like new. Light years ahead of my old S10, well except for that 4.3 motor in the S10 but we sold the boat so it should be okay.
The 4cyl will run forever but they like gasoline. My 2.9l got 18 to 20mpg highway and 16 in town w/ a manual transmission.
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20 years from now the roles will be reversed just like the cars. They deliberately take there time rather than rush in to take the market by storm.
Oh? It's been near 20 years and no sales increase....Trucks are not cars, the buyers more often are brand loyal...Toyota and Nissan get the 5% who aren't.....
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Oh? It's been near 20 years and no sales increase....Trucks are not cars, the buyers more often are brand loyal...Toyota and Nissan get the 5% who aren't.....
When it came time for me to get another truck in 2017 I didn't even consider another manufacturer. Hell I didn't even test drive the new Tacoma's before I bought it.
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I was an Ops Mgr in Hazmat up until 2013, we used mostly GMC & Chevy 2500's & 3500 4 x 4's as field/work vehicles. We had a brand new Toyota Tundra as our office vehicle that I used to run errands, and to run equipment to different teams in the field. The Tundra was a pretty nice truck and drove well, but it got the worse fuel mileage of any truck that I have ever owned or used in my life. Going down I-4 or I-75 you could practically watch the fuel gauge slowly drop, especially if it was towing a trailer. That was really my only and last experience with the Tundra. I took it into the dealership twice in that first year and both times it was diagnosed as normal. Hopefully they've gotten better since then.
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Nobody ever accused Toyota trucks of getting great fuel mileage.
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When it comes to cars and trucks, there are three things I take into consideration: Reliability, reliability, and reliability. I've owned 4 Toyota pick-ups. One T-100 and 3 Tundras. In 400,000 miles (and counting) of Toyota ownership, I've had exactly one mechanical problem, a fuel pump failure (T-100) and thats it. Just oil, brakes and tires.
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When it comes to cars and trucks, there are three things I take into consideration: Reliability, reliability, and reliability. I've owned 4 Toyota pick-ups. One T-100 and 3 Tundras. In 400,000 miles (and counting) of Toyota ownership, I've had exactly one mechanical problem, a fuel pump failure (T-100) and thats it. Just oil, brakes and tires.
I put 200,000 miles on a 2000 GMC Sierra 4.8 and never saw a mechanic. It still had 50% of the ceramic brake pads left and I hauled and towed all the time.
My 2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD 6.0 has just over 100,000 miles and 90 percent of those miles are towing a horse trailer with 2 to 3 horses loaded. The only mechanic job was when a rock took out the AC.
I have a 2017 Nissan Frontier 4.0 with 20,000 miles mostly used to tow my enclosed motorcycle trailer on work trips. Starting to smell a little coolant that I now have to figure out before I bring it in for hopefully warranty work. I chose it over the GMC Canyon because it was $8000 less comparably equipped.
At work we turned a toyota tacoma and a nissan frontier into robot vehicles and most of us agreed that the Nissan was the better truck.
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I have no problems with Toyotas and would buy one ..but...I have never had a new truck , I buy them well used but not used up for the last 45 years. I was a Chevy fanboy but last year i was looking for a smaller used 4x4 truck with a 5 speed. I looked at used Tacoma , Frontier, Ranger and Colorado. I eliminated the Colorado because a 5 speed is only available with a 4 cylinder.. The Tacoma and Frontier V6's had more power and refinement than the Ranger..but, for me, the Ranger has an engaging feel to it with more accurate steering and decent engine torque so you can short shift for better fuel mileage...And the Tacoma ,the Frontier to a lesser degree were a lot more expensive..About 25 percent more for a 8 year old truck . Considering I am retired and don't put on a lot of mileage, reliability should't be an issue...
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2019 4Runner SR5 Premium sales are up by one as of about 10:30am this morning. :thumb:
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Back in my younger days I used to change my own oil, brakes, etc. Had the creeper, jack stands, etc. All that stuff is gone now. Let the dealer put it on the lift. When it comes to cars and trucks, I've become my father...I remember him saying about the last couple of SUV's he owned, "I've never even seen the engine, don't even know if it has one!" I still wrench on the bikes, because everything is easy (mostly) to get to, and I can still lift the parts!
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Some of this thread cracks me up...... guys puffing up on superiority of American Trucks based on sales. LOL go buy a Honda Shadow if thats how you measure ;-)
I think for the most part, the reliability of full size pickups is pretty equal, particularly the GM and Ford, and Chrysler is making progress. I had narrowed it down to one model of GM and Ram, didn't like the Ford at all. It was going to be a Chevy 2500HD or Ram 2500 with blackout kit, the Sierra AT4. Sierra was in the lead till a buddy had me look at the Tundra. The only model I would have bought is what I bought, a Double Cab Cement TRD PRO. If they didn't have that exact truck, I'd be driving a Sierra. I diddnt like the ginormous chrome grill, and basic styling of the Tundra, and the standard ride was too stiff and jarring. This color, blackout paint scheme, body colored bumpers (and what a color) 2" factory lift and special shocks/springs with a factory dual exhaust was the perfect combination. Less important, the seats are black leather set off with red stitching. Not that important, spot on for me. Glad I found it, as I think the 2019 model has terrible color options and the goofy hood bulge looks tacky. But hey, No criticism, I got what I wanted, and if anyone likes or doesn't, no skin off my nose. Be happy with what you have!
I'm buy no means a fanboy, and not only is this my first Toyota, but my first truck, though my wife had a little Toyota pickup when we got married, but I made her trade it for a 1st GEN VW GTI, and I sold my Cutlass. I really like the Tundra, has all I want, and nothing I dont. I added heated seats front and back row, and have 30K on it, averaging 17MPG for my 100 mile round trip commute. Plan to keep it till I cant drive.
My dad always had a truck, over a 40 year period, had 3 Chevy Silverados, my Uncles both are Horsemen, and have Big 4 door Duallys, some Ford, Some Chevy, and one has a Ram Farrier Rig with custom cap. All have been mostly reliable 200K mile plus vehicles, though the Ram transmission $h!t$ the bed every 75K. I dont ding it, it is what it is.
(https://i.ibb.co/j56Z3kh/IMG-20180414-170543413.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j56Z3kh)
(https://i.ibb.co/qYRyKzB/IMG-20180629-132850255.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qYRyKzB)
(https://i.ibb.co/x7rSQ72/IMG-20180629-132907342.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x7rSQ72)
It is funny though to see niche brand motorcyclists bash niche brand trucks......
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Some of this thread cracks me up...... guys puffing up on superiority of American Trucks based on sales. LOL go buy a Honda Shadow if thats how you measure ;-)
I think for the most part, the reliability of full size pickups is pretty equal, particularly the GM and Ford, and Chrysler is making progress. I had narrowed it down to one model of GM and Ram, didn't like the Ford at all. It was going to be a Chevy 2500HD or Ram 2500 with blackout kit, the Sierra AT4. Sierra was in the lead till a buddy had me look at the Tundra. The only model I would have bought is what I bought, a Double Cab Cement TRD PRO. If they didn't have that exact truck, I'd be driving a Sierra. I diddnt like the ginormous chrome grill, and basic styling of the Tundra, and the standard ride was too stiff and jarring. This color, blackout paint scheme, body colored bumpers (and what a color) 2" factory lift and special shocks/springs with a factory dual exhaust was the perfect combination. Less important, the seats are black leather set off with red stitching. Not that important, spot on for me. Glad I found it, as I think the 2019 model has terrible color options and the goofy hood bulge looks tacky. But hey, No criticism, I got what I wanted, and if anyone likes or doesn't, no skin off my nose. Be happy with what you have!
I'm buy no means a fanboy, and not only is this my first Toyota, but my first truck, though my wife had a little Toyota pickup when we got married, but I made her trade it for a 1st GEN VW GTI, and I sold my Cutlass. I really like the Tundra, has all I want, and nothing I dont. I added heated seats front and back row, and have 30K on it, averaging 17MPG for my 100 mile round trip commute. Plan to keep it till I cant drive.
My dad always had a truck, over a 40 year period, had 3 Chevy Silverados, my Uncles both are Horsemen, and have Big 4 door Duallys, some Ford, Some Chevy, and one has a Ram Farrier Rig with custom cap. All have been mostly reliable 200K mile plus vehicles, though the Ram transmission $h!t$ the bed every 75K. I dont ding it, it is what it is.
(https://i.ibb.co/j56Z3kh/IMG-20180414-170543413.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j56Z3kh)
(https://i.ibb.co/qYRyKzB/IMG-20180629-132850255.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qYRyKzB)
(https://i.ibb.co/x7rSQ72/IMG-20180629-132907342.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x7rSQ72)
It is funny though to see niche brand motorcyclists bash niche brand trucks......
So, why were you looking at 3/4 ton trucks and then ended up buying a 1/2 ton?
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not only is this my first Toyota, but my first truck,
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/zweb-s3.uploads/visiontv/2015/02/McCloud-Meme.jpg)
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So, why were you looking at 3/4 ton trucks and then ended up buying a 1/2 ton?
So what! What does it matter if he was looking at 5 ton stake body trucks and ended up with 1/2 ton or a car. Nowhere did he say he needed a 3/4 ton truck only that that what he was looking at. Why do you care if people buy trucks and never even use the bed. Or make comments that you can tell the truck that have never had a reveicer in them. Like that make it any less of a truck.
Rocker post of "there ya go" is also assinine. Insuinuatign that Bulldog9 went in undereducaed and that why he got suckered into a Toyota.
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So what! What does it matter if he was looking at 5 ton stake body trucks and ended up with 1/2 ton or a car. Nowhere did he say he needed a 3/4 ton truck only that that what he was looking at. Why do you care if people buy trucks and never even use the bed. Or make comments that you can tell the truck that have never had a reveicer in them. Like that make it any less of a truck.
Rocker post of "there ya go" is also assinine. Insuinuatign that Bulldog9 went in undereducaed and that why he got suckered into a Toyota.
Wow, don't take it personal, it's only trucks :grin:
Some of us look at trucks as a tool .......I will say this, the majority of full sized trucks are used like a car...
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So what! What does it matter if he was looking at 5 ton stake body trucks and ended up with 1/2 ton or a car. Nowhere did he say he needed a 3/4 ton truck only that that what he was looking at. Why do you care if people buy trucks and never even use the bed. Or make comments that you can tell the truck that have never had a reveicer in them. Like that make it any less of a truck.
Rocker post of "there ya go" is also assinine. Insuinuatign that Bulldog9 went in undereducaed and that why he got suckered into a Toyota.
Why do you care so much about what I post Perazzimx14? :blank:
I am just tying to figure out why someone would look at 3/4 ton trucks if they don't need one. They are rough riding when they don't have a load compared to the 1/2 ton trucks. They are more expensive than 1/2 ton trucks. First world problem I guess.
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I looked at a variety of trucks over about 5 years. The final three were about a combination of capabilities and options but most importantly what suited my particular taste. The advantage of a 3/4 ton truck is obvious if I wanted a huge fifth wheel trailer, or a large bed camper the 2500 could handle it.
In the end, it was the price that turned me away from the 2500 series trucks. If money was no option I probably would have ended up with a power wagon, or the Silverado HD with the Duramax and black out package oh, but those trucks were over $65,000 and beyond my willingness to spend. As I said, I had pretty much decided on the GMC Sierra AT4 which is a package on the 1500 series truck. That was primarily due to things like drivability, ride quality, and several other things. I was not surprised with how poorly the Ram 2500 rode and drove, but the Silverado HD 2500 with the Duramax was every bit as comfortable as many other trucks. The variety and options in full size pickup trucks is astounding. Heck, if Jeep had its new gladiator on the market, I would have given that strong consideration, and as soon as they get past the first model year I may drive one and reconsider.
Did I buy because I needed? No, and in the five years I was weighing my options, I considered everything from a Range Rover, Cayenne, to a new Grand Cherokee (have been driving a Jeep since 1984) to a Suburban, and even considered buying a sport sedan or coupe and keeping my Jeep for the towing and other needs I had. But I also knew that a truck what expand my options and give me the convenience of not having to borrow someone's truck when I needed it.
In the end, it was about what I wanted and the options and possibilities. I'm not a tradesman, and like most people my decisions were based on lifestyle choices. I would have been completely happy and satisfied with any of the final choices, but in the TRD Pro package of the tundra I got everything I wanted for looks style performance capabilities but most importantly the Tundra was $43,000 out the door for a brand new truck. That extra $15,000 was far better served in my pocket. The bonus, is that I ended up with a truck that hit every single checkbox I had, and I love it.
That said, the tundra is extremely overbuilt, and if Toyota decided to do a full box frame they could easily offer an HD variant of the Tundra just by upgrading the frame and spring rates. it also helped that at the time the tundra had far more us content than many of the American truck offerings. I think the most recent iteration of the Ford f150 has more U.S. content.
Reliability was a factor, but in my opinion for most full size truck sold in the United States, it's almost an equal wash.
one of the most interesting things for me and transitioning to a truck as my primary vehicle, is I've joined several truck forums. Wow forums always have people with strong opinions and contentiousness, I've been surprised to see what absolute asshats most people become when they discuss truck. Some of the tone of this thread seems to bear this out.
Some of you guys need to chill
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Why do you care so much about what I post Perazzimx14? :blank:
I am just tying to figure out why someone would look at 3/4 ton trucks if they don't need one. They are rough riding when they don't have a load compared to the 1/2 ton trucks. They are more expensive than 1/2 ton trucks. First world problem I guess.
Why are you so worried about what others buy or how they use it.
Hell my buddy years ago bought a 4 door 4 x 4 F350 power stroke diesel with an 8 foot bed with a fancy burle wood dash, leather seats and every other bell and whislte that could be had. It was his daily driver. He owned a restaurant and lived above the restaurant. He didn't farm or pull horse trailer when it snowed not like 4WD was helping him get to work. For all I know he never put anything in the bed. But its what he wanted not what I though was best for him. It wasn't my position to rationalize his purchase. If he'd have asked my opinion I'd have offer it. But like Bulldog9 he didn't ask what our opinion was between truck manufacturers he told us what he selected and your and others going out of your way to sh!t on his decision like it was the wrong one. He did his research and bought he truck he felt best suited his need. End of story.
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Wow, don't take it personal, it's only trucks :grin:
Some of us look at trucks as a tool .......I will say this, the majority of full sized trucks are used like a car...
Bingo! Thats why I ended up with a Honda Ridgeline. You don't need a full size truck to get a tube of caulk at Home Depot. Plus it will still haul my motorcycles in a trailer which is all I ever used my full size trucks for anyway.
Pete
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Bingo! Thats why I ended up with a Honda Ridgeline. You don't need a full size truck to get a tube of caulk at Home Depot. Plus it will still haul my motorcycles in a trailer which is all I ever used my full size trucks for anyway.
Pete
I have owned three pickup trucks, all Toyota’s for work. Quite frankly, I don’t like pick up trucks but I understand why some people like them. Nowadays, I just have material delivered, and I still have my 70 el Camino for incidental things. The only thing I occasionally tow are the bikes, so I just use the Outback for that work as the gas consumption is cheap compared to any pickup truck. I regularly get offers from some guy to trade me his $40K + pickup truck for the el Camino, and I immediately offer them the keys but no one to date has taken the bait. I’m hoping it happens one day, I’ll just sell that truck get another el Camino, pocket the leftovers and wait for the next offer.
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This won't quite fit in the trunk of my wife's Honda Civic!!
(https://i.ibb.co/KV6Mkmp/IMG-0130.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KV6Mkmp)
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Why are you so worried about what others buy or how they use it.
Just trying to understand the thought process one goes through to end up with something totally different than what they were looking at. If he had said he compared 1/2 ton trucks from the various manufacturers and then decided the Toyota was best for him I would understand it.
Out here in horse country everyone thinks you need a diesel because it has status symbol attached to it. Unless you are driving 30,000 miles a year or more and need to haul 18,000 lbs a diesel truck is going to cost you way more in maintenance and the truck is going to fall apart around the long life engine that you paid thousands more to own.
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Perhaps it wasn't clear but I started by looking at everything mid and fullsize over a period of 5 years. Ended with the list above. Why does this chafe you so? You need to go ride dude. :drool:
So, why were you looking at 3/4 ton trucks and then ended up buying a 1/2 ton?
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Just trying to understand the thought process one goes through to end up with something totally different than what they were looking at. If he had said he compared 1/2 ton trucks from the various manufacturers and then decided the Toyota was best for him I would understand it.
Out here in horse country everyone thinks you need a diesel because it has status symbol attached to it. Unless you are driving 30,000 miles a year or more and need to haul 18,000 lbs a diesel truck is going to cost you way more in maintenance and the truck is going to fall apart around the long life engine that you paid thousands more to own.
Is a 3/4 ton truck really that different than a 1/2 ton truck? Its not like Bulldog9 was looking at trucks and ended up with a Honda Grom. Then compalined that the towing/hauling capacity of the grom sucked. He originally looked at 3/4 ton trucks and then looked at a 1/2 ton truck and decided on a 1/2 ton truck. Again he never stated he was or needed to tow/haul XYZ he said he was looking at trucks. What so hard about that and what wrong witht he decision he made?
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Is a 3/4 ton truck really that different than a 1/2 ton truck? Its not like Bulldog9 was looking at trucks and ended up with a Honda Grom. Then compalined that the towing/hauling capacity of the grom sucked. He originally looked at 3/4 ton trucks and then looked at a 1/2 ton truck and decided on a 1/2 ton truck. Again he never stated he was or needed to tow/haul XYZ he said he was looking at trucks. What so hard about that and what wrong witht he decision he made?
The 1/2 ton trucks were too car like for my taste. Too fancy, and felt more like a sedan than a truck. The 3/4 ton trucks were more truck like and what a truck should be. The 'extra 1/4 ton 'capacity' was a moot point for my purposes. I didn't see this article till after I purchased the Tundra, but it hits the nail on the head with what is right with it.
https://jalopnik.com/the-2017-toyota-tundra-trd-pro-is-the-best-version-of-a-1820821578
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I agree less is more. I never understood individual climate control for two people sitting a foot apart. My boss had high end 2018 F150 with a 15 speed transmission. It was totally unnecessary. In a parking lot buy the time you went 75 feet you were in 6th gear. It had more buttons, toggles and switches than a control panel at NASA. It also had the irritating feature of shutting off when the vehicle idled at a stop.
My Tacoma in comparison has 90% less dodads and IHMO is better for it. A 6 speed transmission is plenty and one zone comfort control is something I can easily deal with.
I will say the only thing I though would be silly on the F150 that after trying I think should be standard on all vehicles is air conditioned seats. It is a life changer.
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Is a 3/4 ton truck really that different than a 1/2 ton truck? Its not like Bulldog9 was looking at trucks and ended up with a Honda Grom. Then compalined that the towing/hauling capacity of the grom sucked. He originally looked at 3/4 ton trucks and then looked at a 1/2 ton truck and decided on a 1/2 ton truck. Again he never stated he was or needed to tow/haul XYZ he said he was looking at trucks. What so hard about that and what wrong witht he decision he made?
It actually is really that different when riding empty.
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I looked at a variety of trucks over about 5 years. The final three were about a combination of capabilities and options but most importantly what suited my particular taste. The advantage of a 3/4 ton truck is obvious if I wanted a huge fifth wheel trailer, or a large bed camper the 2500 could handle it.
In the end, it was the price that turned me away from the 2500 series trucks. If money was no option I probably would have ended up with a power wagon, or the Silverado HD with the Duramax and black out package oh, but those trucks were over $65,000 and beyond my willingness to spend. As I said, I had pretty much decided on the GMC Sierra AT4 which is a package on the 1500 series truck. That was primarily due to things like drivability, ride quality, and several other things. I was not surprised with how poorly the Ram 2500 rode and drove, but the Silverado HD 2500 with the Duramax was every bit as comfortable as many other trucks. The variety and options in full size pickup trucks is astounding. Heck, if Jeep had its new gladiator on the market, I would have given that strong consideration, and as soon as they get past the first model year I may drive one and reconsider.
Did I buy because I needed? No, and in the five years I was weighing my options, I considered everything from a Range Rover, Cayenne, to a new Grand Cherokee (have been driving a Jeep since 1984) to a Suburban, and even considered buying a sport sedan or coupe and keeping my Jeep for the towing and other needs I had. But I also knew that a truck what expand my options and give me the convenience of not having to borrow someone's truck when I needed it.
In the end, it was about what I wanted and the options and possibilities. I'm not a tradesman, and like most people my decisions were based on lifestyle choices. I would have been completely happy and satisfied with any of the final choices, but in the TRD Pro package of the tundra I got everything I wanted for looks style performance capabilities but most importantly the Tundra was $43,000 out the door for a brand new truck. That extra $15,000 was far better served in my pocket. The bonus, is that I ended up with a truck that hit every single checkbox I had, and I love it.
That said, the tundra is extremely overbuilt, and if Toyota decided to do a full box frame they could easily offer an HD variant of the Tundra just by upgrading the frame and spring rates. it also helped that at the time the tundra had far more us content than many of the American truck offerings. I think the most recent iteration of the Ford f150 has more U.S. content.
Reliability was a factor, but in my opinion for most full size truck sold in the United States, it's almost an equal wash.
one of the most interesting things for me and transitioning to a truck as my primary vehicle, is I've joined several truck forums. Wow forums always have people with strong opinions and contentiousness, I've been surprised to see what absolute asshats most people become when they discuss truck. Some of the tone of this thread seems to bear this out.
Some of you guys need to chill
Thanks.
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Is a 3/4 ton truck really that different than a 1/2 ton truck?
In decades past, they shared bodies. In today's world, they are completely different machines with little that interchanges.
Engine, transmission, differentials, drive shaft, brakes, springs, shocks, frame are all heavier duty when you step from 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton.
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In decades past, they shared bodies. In today's world, they are completely different machines with little that interchanges.
Engine, transmission, differentials, drive shaft, brakes, springs, shocks, frame are all heavier duty when you step from 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton.
Today's so called 1/2 tons can haul more legally that a 3/4 from 20 years ago..What is a" truck" is often in the eyes of the owner.. To me a truck has a clutch pedal and it's something you can climb into with a screwdriver in your rear pocket, the ability to push a fallen tree or a stalled vehicle out of the way, small dents and scrapes are just part of using it..But I do like AC , power windows and remote adjustable outside mirrors...To me a truck is not something 220 inches long with 4 doors and a 4-5 foot bed, and interior accommodations like a luxury sedan...But if you like what you have that is all that matters...
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Today's so called 1/2 tons can haul more legally that a 3/4 from 20 years ago..
That is true, and something to consider if you are cross-shopping 2019 model 1500s vs 1999 model 2500s. :wink:
Mission creep. Arms race. Whatever. That does not change the fact that 1/2-ton an 3/4-ton trucks do not share much hardware. When you move from a 1500 to a 2500 everything is bigger, stronger, tougher.
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That is true, and something to consider if you are cross-shopping 2019 model 1500s vs 1999 model 2500s. :wink:
Mission creep. Arms race. Whatever. That does not change the fact that 1/2-ton an 3/4-ton trucks do not share much hardware. When you move from a 1500 to a 2500 everything is bigger, stronger, tougher.
While that is true, it was also true 20-30 years ago....I'm familiar with GM trucks.. the 3/4 ton ,compared to a half ton, has a thicker gauge bigger dimension frame, different engine options with elimination of the smallest V-8's or 6 cylinders, bigger front spindles, higher capacity full floating rear axle with deeper axle ratios, different springs,different wheels and more..I can say with some confidence this must have been the same for Ford and Dodge..
I used to do electrical contract work for a large auto dismantler...Once the body is off, you can see the huge boxed frames on 1/2 ton trucks with crumple zones near the front...these new 1/2 ton frames do look more rigid than past 3/4 tons..I bet a lot of this has to do with the rigid frames demanded for the safety and more quiet ride and comfort of newer trucks...
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On my third I do a lot of travel for work hand have had a 2010, 2015 and now a 2018. Put 350,00 on the 2010 and 250 on the 2015. Nothing but oil and tires. Super reliable, and the only Trucks I will own. Wife has a 2018 Tacoma.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b5B23Cb/0/9a4c2c9f/M/i-b5B23Cb-M.jpg) (https://curtedwards.smugmug.com/Forum-Post/n-zvp7tH/i-b5B23Cb/A)
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That is true, and something to consider if you are cross-shopping 2019 model 1500s vs 1999 model 2500s. :wink:
Mission creep. Arms race. Whatever. That does not change the fact that 1/2-ton an 3/4-ton trucks do not share much hardware. When you move from a 1500 to a 2500 everything is bigger, stronger, tougher.
So true. My 2017 Nissan Frontier 4.0L has a higher towing capacity than my 2000 GMC Sierra 4.8L truck did. The Frontier also has a 1460 lb payload.
But, let us not forget that Toyota made a 1 ton pickup in the 1970s for the US buyer.
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I was in the Toyota dealership yesterday after seeing sales figures for 2018 and talking to the salesman I think Toyota is doing the right thing.
In 2018 there were something like 896,000 F-150 produced Dodge and Chevy were in the 600,000+ range and Tacoma's there were 296,000 produced (a 24% increase over 2017)
So yes Toyota doesn't produce the sheer amount of vehicles but they sell all they produce at or close to MSRP. On very rare occasion they offer a $1,000 discount on the Tacoma whereas Ford Chevy and Dodge ALWAY are offering $5,000 to $10,000+ off MSRP and have a tremendous amount of leftovers compared to Toyota. These leftovers are further discounted to get them to sell.
I think Toyota follows the pigs get fat hogs get slaughtered theory. Sure they could produce 900,000 Tacomas and not sell a bunch of them then deeply discount the remaining stock to clear it out. Or they can manufacturer what will sell at or very close to MSRP and be happy turning profit.
So maybe their ultimate goal isn't to have the #1 truck sales spot. Maybe it's to make a profit??
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I was in the Toyota dealership yesterday after seeing sales figures for 2018 and talking to the salesman I think Toyota is doing the right thing.
In 2018 there were something like 896,000 F-150 produced Dodge and Chevy were in the 600,000+ range and Tacoma's there were 296,000 produced (a 24% increase over 2017)
So yes Toyota doesn't produce the sheer amount of vehicles but they sell all they produce at or close to MSRP. On very rare occasion they offer a $1,000 discount on the Tacoma whereas Ford Chevy and Dodge ALWAY are offering $5,000 to $10,000+ off MSRP and have a tremendous amount of leftovers compared to Toyota. These leftovers are further discounted to get them to sell.
I think Toyota follows the pigs get fat hogs get slaughtered theory. Sure they could produce 900,000 Tacomas and not sell a bunch of them then deeply discount the remaining stock to clear it out. Or they can manufacturer what will sell at or very close to MSRP and be happy turning profit.
So maybe their ultimate goal isn't to have the #1 truck sales spot. Maybe it's to make a profit??
Ford GM and Ram make a huge profit on trucks..And that's why Ford has and GM will soon abandon making most cars..And since they outsell Toyota and Nissan full size trucks by a huge difference, they can make less money per unit.....And GM trucks sales do not include the the very popular Tahoe and Suburban truck based models...The facts are simple, Toyota and Nissan can't break the full size truck market because the majority of truck buys are loyal to other brand names...
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Ford GM and Ram make a huge profit on trucks..And that's why Ford has and GM will soon abandon making most cars..And since they outsell Toyota and Nissan full size trucks by a huge difference, they can make less money per unit.....And GM trucks sales do not include the the very popular Tahoe and Suburban truck based models...The facts are simple, Toyota and Nissan can't break the full size truck market because the majority of truck buys are loyal to other brand names...
I'm still not so sure that Toyota and Nissan aren't happy selling what they do in a ever saturating truck market and are not worried about becoming the top producer.
Over the years I've owned 2 Ford Rangers, 1 Chevy K20, 1 Dodge Ram 1500 and 2 Tacomas and 1 4Runner in that order. Brand loyalty started in 2003 when I bought my 1st Tacoma.
I've also had 3 F-150's and 2 E-350's as work vehicles. Honestly after 2008 I'd be hard pressed to spend any money on the big three be it car truck or van.
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I'm still not so sure that Toyota and Nissan aren't happy selling what they do in a ever saturating truck market and are not worried about becoming the top producer.
Over the years I've owned 2 Ford Rangers, 1 Chevy K20, 1 Dodge Ram 1500 and 2 Tacomas and 1 4Runner in that order. Brand loyalty started in 2003 when I bought my 1st Tacoma.
I've also had 3 F-150's and 2 E-350's as work vehicles. Honestly after 2008 I'd be hard pressed to spend any money on the big three be it car truck or van.
:thumb:
steady goes the race,
the tortoise and the hare,
GM, Ford, Chrysler all laughed at the Japanese cars when they started coming over in the 70's. It takes time to do things right.
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I'm still not so sure that Toyota and Nissan aren't happy selling what they do in a ever saturating truck market and are not worried about becoming the top producer.
Over the years I've owned 2 Ford Rangers, 1 Chevy K20, 1 Dodge Ram 1500 and 2 Tacomas and 1 4Runner in that order. Brand loyalty started in 2003 when I bought my 1st Tacoma.
I've also had 3 F-150's and 2 E-350's as work vehicles. Honestly after 2008 I'd be hard pressed to spend any money on the big three be it car truck or van.
Well maybe but it appears that Toyota's market strategy has always been to dominate of the market.. That's certainly true of their cars and the Tacoma I believe is a top seller in smaller trucks..They dominated the US small -mid size car sales in less than 10 years...Been near 20 years for full size trucks and nothing close to that...Sure will will take second to last place so long as they make some money on it, but I would bet you the company would rather be first in sales..
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Well maybe but it appears that Toyota's market strategy has always been to dominate of the market.. That's certainly true of their cars and the Tacoma I believe is a top seller in smaller trucks..They dominated the US small -mid size car sales in less than 10 years...Been near 20 years for full size trucks and nothing close to that...Sure will will take second to last place so long as they make some money on it, but I would bet you the company would rather be first in sales..
One can also be 1st in sales and last in profit.
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I find it interesting that Toyota and Nissan full size trucks have never made dent in the US market in over 10 years, unlike their small trucks and cars...Considering just what is called 1/2 ton trucks, Ford, GM and Dodge together sell 10 trucks for each one sold by Toyota and Nissan together...
The Asian models aren't truly full size like the American ones. They are also not American, no matter where they are built. I doubt that will change any time soon. And the American truck quality is top notch nowadays according to my friends who own them. I would be surprised to ever see the Asians have a significant market share.
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And if the truck is built in Mexico it ain't 'Murican, either.
Works both ways.
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I was in the Toyota dealership yesterday after seeing sales figures for 2018 and talking to the salesman I think Toyota is doing the right thing.
In 2018 there were something like 896,000 F-150 produced Dodge and Chevy were in the 600,000+ range and Tacoma's there were 296,000 produced (a 24% increase over 2017)
So yes Toyota doesn't produce the sheer amount of vehicles but they sell all they produce at or close to MSRP. On very rare occasion they offer a $1,000 discount on the Tacoma whereas Ford Chevy and Dodge ALWAY are offering $5,000 to $10,000+ off MSRP and have a tremendous amount of leftovers compared to Toyota. These leftovers are further discounted to get them to sell.
I think Toyota follows the pigs get fat hogs get slaughtered theory. Sure they could produce 900,000 Tacomas and not sell a bunch of them then deeply discount the remaining stock to clear it out. Or they can manufacturer what will sell at or very close to MSRP and be happy turning profit.
So maybe their ultimate goal isn't to have the #1 truck sales spot. Maybe it's to make a profit??
So, that is good news for investors in Toyota, but not consumers who are overpaying for their truck. :thumb:
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And if the truck is built in Mexico it ain't 'Murican, either.
Works both ways.
"North American", amigo. :whip2:
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So, that is good news for investors in Toyota, but not consumers who are overpaying for their truck. :thumb:
Like the $55,000 Ram 1500 that is discounted $18,000 making the buyer feel likes he’s getting a $55,000 truck for $38,000. Then when he trades it in 5 years he get $18,000 for a trade. Then hes pissed because his $55,000 truck is worth 1/3 of the MSRP.
Then you have the $39,500 Tacoma that is discounted maybe a $1000 and if you sell it 5 year later it’s still worth we’ll I’ve $20,000.
How overpaid?
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So, that is good news for investors in Toyota, but not consumers who are overpaying for their truck. :thumb:
Not the case with the Toyotas... At all, particularly in resale value. KBB puts the Private Party price for my truck at $40K, and dealer trade at $37K. I paid $43, sticker was $45K so in 2 years a 5k retail / 3K sales price for private party, and 8K/6K loss trade value .
The GMC Sierra I considered was $58K retail, could have bought for $45K. KBB puts that truck at $34K private sale, $30K trade value.. The HD Chevy was over $65K, could have bought for $52K. KBB puts it at $46K private Party, and $42K trade in value. Dodge was even worse....I'll leave it to you to do the math and decide who is overpaying.
Had I bought the big 3, If I had to sell or trade, I'd take a huge hit in depreciation in sales price (11K-15K), and retail depreciation is even worse (24K-28K)... Not so with the Tundra and similar on Tacomas.
Not a fan boy, just happy with the facts....
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Like the $55,000 Ram 1500 that is discounted $18,000 making the buyer feel likes he’s getting a $55,000 truck for $38,000. Then when he trades it in 5 years he get $18,000 for a trade. Then hes pissed because his $55,000 truck is worth 1/3 of the MSRP.
Then you have the $39,500 Tacoma that is discounted maybe a $1000 and if you sell it 5 year later it’s still worth we’ll I’ve $20,000.
How overpaid?
Why are you comparing a Tacoma to a Ram 1500? Totally different class of truck?
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Not the case with the Toyotas... At all, particularly in resale value. KBB puts the Private Party price for my truck at $40K, and dealer trade at $37K. I paid $43, sticker was $45K so in 2 years a 5k retail / 3K sales price for private party, and 8K/6K loss trade value .
The GMC Sierra I considered was $58K retail, could have bought for $45K. KBB puts that truck at $34K private sale, $30K trade value.. The HD Chevy was over $65K, could have bought for $52K. KBB puts it at $46K private Party, and $42K trade in value. Dodge was even worse....I'll leave it to you to do the math and decide who is overpaying.
Had I bought the big 3, If I had to sell or trade, I'd take a huge hit in depreciation in sales price (11K-15K), and retail depreciation is even worse (24K-28K)... Not so with the Tundra and similar on Tacomas.
Not a fan boy, just happy with the facts....
What person is going to pay $3000 less to buy used over new? No one I know.
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Why are you comparing a Tacoma to a Ram 1500? Totally different class of truck?
Somebody needs a tissue.......... :drool: It's about resale value my friend. That's never been an issue for me, as I keep vehicles 10-15 years or more, but NFN, a few weeks ago, was out oggling Cayennes and Range Roves with my dad. We drove my truck, and when we got back from the test drive on a CPO Cayenne, the dealer had an offer and paper work offering me $40K trade for my truck on the 'no haggle' price of the Cayenne. Was tempting for a few seconds. Not sure I could have resisted if the Panamera GTS we also looked at was at the same price point.... Serious lust for that car.
Point is, Toyota trucks hold their value. I think this is true for most full size trucks, Ford in particular when compared to passenger cars.
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Dec 09 I bought a 2010 4x4 Tundra ext cab cheapest thing they had. Sticker $30 k. bought it at 27+ tax $30,013 OTD.
My son wrecked it twice and wife once. (Long story) I traded it with 77,000 miles on it on a new 2017 (one step up and another 10% off deal) Dec 2016 when it needed $3000 in body damage repairs. New one was $40000 bought for $37000 +tax but they still gave me $17500 for the trade. Adding the 3K and tires it needed thats $20500 for 7 years and 77000 miles (0 in repairs of any kind) not figuring tax thats $6500 for seven years and a dismal car fax sheet. No way that happens with a F,C,D.
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If you want to know who is overpaying look at the prices for rusted out hulks with 200k plus miles on them.
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And I thought religion was VERBOTEN on this esteemed forum????