Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Vagrant on June 25, 2018, 07:16:48 AM

Title: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Vagrant on June 25, 2018, 07:16:48 AM
When I dumped all of the oils at 5800 miles the final drive was like slightly brown sour cream. I had ridden in heavy rain for 250 miles or so but that's no excuse for a somewhat modern bike. I see from past posts I'm not alone. anybody find a cure? that box appears to be sealed by bearings and seals so it shouldn't be leaking back from the drive shaft and there is no oil leak. 
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: guzzisteve on June 25, 2018, 09:40:18 AM
Was anything in there at the 1st service?  Vent on the filler?
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Vagrant on June 25, 2018, 09:57:36 AM
nothing but then the first 750 got put on in 2 days. I took the vent off and looked at it and all I can figure is there was so much rain it pushed itself right in there or there is a constant suction with the gears spinning and it sucked it in.
Unless somebody has a better idea i think i will make a cap to go over the whole vent but still let it breathe. like an umbrella.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: guzzisteve on June 25, 2018, 11:28:55 AM
I would put a hose on it to up behind sidecover or frame.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Muzz on June 25, 2018, 04:08:32 PM
Pete Roper some years back designed and built an elegant solution for venting the CARC rear drives out of stainless tube and braid and venting it I believe under the seat.

I think the problem of water in the oil showed when cold water cooled the diff down it sucked water past the seals which were one way; designed to keep oil in but not keep water out if a vacuum suddenly developed.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: pete roper on June 25, 2018, 05:05:26 PM
On a vented box water won't get past the seals. If there is a pressure differential between two places the fluid will always take the path of least resistance, with a vented bevel or gearbox that will be the vent.

The long and the short of it is that the vent, which has been used on multiple bikes in multiple locations, is crap. Add to this that in some circumstances when riding in rain water spray seems to get aimed at it somehow and you end up with the perfect setting for the bevelbox getting water in.

As with the CARC and the V11 gearbox, both of which are prone to water intrusion, the answer is to get a speed flow fitting or banjo and bolt and a length of braided hose and make a remote breather that can be run up the swingarm and then up to vent under the seat or tank. End of problem.

Pete
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Muzz on June 25, 2018, 11:03:40 PM
I think it was sign216 that mentioned a blocked breather on his smallblock.

Mine always had a perfectly clean vent area; after reading about blocked vents I took mine out, soaked it, blew it out and generally made sure it was clear. Now after about a 1000km trip at "reasonable" speeds it now shows a very light oil mist around it so I suspect that it was blocked. Although I have never had oil on the tire and the pinion has always been clean when I lube the splines I suspect that it was not actually venting properly.

Maybe enough to suck water in when cold? Dunno. Have ridden through some real shit weather and never had any sign of water in it. Never been in water over the diff.

Either way, my view is that it is a worthwhile thing to add to your maintenance list.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Vagrant on June 26, 2018, 06:44:04 AM
I'm sure Pete has the right permanent fix. I did make a rain hat for it but when I moved this winter after 25 years in the same house I threw away about 3 sets of former brake lines. big mistake as usual.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: SmithSwede on June 26, 2018, 01:01:56 PM
Is there water in your swing-arm?

In the past, there were several times I rode my V7 a lot in heavy rain, only to discover that the next time I went to change the tire, about 3 tablespoons of water would pour out of the swing-arm when I took the final drive off.  The final drive oil would be greenish/brown with water contamination.  My theory is that this water in the swing-arm sits against the drive shaft seal and works its way into the final drive.

I sealed the rubber boot on the spring arm with silicon goop.  Ever since then I have not had water in the swing-arm, nor have I had weird colored final drive oil, despite many hours of riding in very heavy rain.

I remain suspicious of that exposed vent cap on top of the drive, but cannot say that it lets water it. 
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Vagrant on June 16, 2019, 07:09:31 AM
revival time. I finally got a whole 11 miles of rain and about 20 miles of wet roads after the below fix. pure sour cream again. the vent on the top is wide open clear. you can blow through it without any pressure.
now after last time I looked for leaks below at the boot and see no oil. however in true money saving measure they used a zip tie for the front clamp instead of the nice metal clamp on my 2015 V7. no normal metal clamps are to be found at 5 different auto parts and a appliance store. I did discover that a nice one time use clamp for a CV joint works great. i pulled back the front boot where it goes onto the rear of the transmission and cleaned it as good as possible. then i used gasket maker to help seal it and put it back together and let it cure. now there is a tiny spot of oil where the bottom of the boot is in the front so the silicone didn't do as well as i expected but there is still no excuse for the leak. if the 2015 doesn't and most others don't why is this one.so after changing the oil today and taking a nice mountain ride I got to thinking, scary I know. anyway when I got home I pulled the vent from the 2015 and it seems to have a valve in it. when screwing a rubber hose over the threads you can blow through it but there is a tiny bit of pressure needed to do it. no pressure is needed on the 17. so maybe it never had a check valve in it.
What would really help is if someone with a 17-18 would pull theirs out an see if it free flowing or if a bit of pressure is needed. I've never had water in the 15 but then again I'm not sure it's ever been in the rain. so far it's spent it's life in Az.
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Zoom Zoom on June 16, 2019, 07:26:26 AM
When my Stelvio was new, I experienced the same thing coming home from Virginia. I bought Pete's vent kit he worked up and never had any more trouble with it.

My guess is that the rear drive was suddenly cooled down by the heavy rain. As the cooler outside temps and water cooled the rear drive, it drew the water in through the vent.

In any case, Pete came up with a brilliant solution that works well. I'm glad I got it.

John Henry
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: malik on June 16, 2019, 05:05:20 PM
In the 300,000km I've put on both V7s, I've had water in the final drive twice, once each on both bikes and at around the same time - on our trip around Oz, and on the oil change after having spent a day in driving Tassie west coast rain. Both bikes collect water in the swing arm, despite the silicone and the metal clamps. No attention has ever been paid to the vents. The bikes have been through similar rains (although not quite so relentless) before & since with no such result. So, sometimes water gets in, & mostly it doesn't. Hey, it's Italian. I'll keep an eye on it & take precautions/preventive action anyway - seeing as the Special is now in bits & the Classic going to be soon, it's the ideal opportunity.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Dirk_S on April 27, 2020, 01:34:31 PM
Hope itís OK to continue on this thread.

Iím planning to replace the oil breather bolt with the banjo & bolt solution. Pete mentions to use a braided hose - is there are a particular reason?
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: HarveyMushman on April 27, 2020, 05:55:52 PM
Hope itís OK to continue on this thread.

Iím planning to replace the oil breather bolt with the banjo & bolt solution. Pete mentions to use a braided hose - is there are a particular reason?

Less likely to be damaged, and it looks better than a random bit of rubber hose. 
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: pyoungbl on April 27, 2020, 07:36:23 PM
I want to do the same conversion.  My rear drive oil looked like coffee with too much cream.  When I did the conversion on my Stelvio this problem was solved.  Too bad Pete got out of that side business because the need is still there.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: greer on April 28, 2020, 05:41:57 AM
Would anybody have a picture of Pete's solution?  Is this a similar kit?

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3208

Sarah

Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Dirk_S on April 28, 2020, 06:07:56 AM
Sarah, I saw that offered too, but the price, whoah. My own initial (cursory) search didnít come across any Guzzi-specific pics, but I did find this. Simple banjo fitting with a bolt, and hose leading along the swing arm and up into the air box in a way that allows for some flexing and with nothing tight.

Iím not sure if models vary, but my V7IIís breather bolt is a 10x1.5


(https://i.ibb.co/QdJwFqS/B82-FAED1-B0-F1-4-B20-9400-2708-F5-F457-F3.png) (https://ibb.co/QdJwFqS)
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: greer on April 28, 2020, 06:29:34 AM
Something like this, maybe:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRITDT-Banjo-Bolt-Kit-M10x1-5mm-w-1-8mm-Hole-SUBARU-TD04L-RHF5-Turbo-Oil-Feed/222595676853?hash=item33d3bc7ab5:g:QikAAOSwtnpaHRPr

Sarah
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: HarveyMushman on April 28, 2020, 06:33:09 AM
This is what I bought for my Stelvio's vent:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003CGSS76/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011W26J5O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That hose is no longer available but you get the idea.  Just run the open end of the hose along the swingarm and up under the seat, with some sort of simple filter wrapped around the end.  I used a scrap of threadbare cloth diaper. 

My V7 III is more of a fair weather machine but I'll probably put something similar together for it just to be safe.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Dirk_S on April 28, 2020, 06:46:18 AM
Something like this, maybe:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRITDT-Banjo-Bolt-Kit-M10x1-5mm-w-1-8mm-Hole-SUBARU-TD04L-RHF5-Turbo-Oil-Feed/222595676853?hash=item33d3bc7ab5:g:QikAAOSwtnpaHRPr

Sarah

Yup. Just make sure it fits your bike (check your Guzzi bolt part# against the V7IIís, maybe theyíre the same, or measure your boltís size and thread count). I bought one of those too, but decided I didnít want the coupler end, so I bought another instead with a hose barb. If you or anyone else wants the couple-end banjo & bolt, I can mail it out!.
(https://i.ibb.co/kDkRRzN/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kDkRRzN)
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Vagrant on April 28, 2020, 06:46:47 AM
interesting this popped up again. I have to change the rear tire today and was going to jury rig something while I was down there. instead i just bought 2 of the above for $22. the second is for a new V85 just in case it needs one too.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: blu guzz on April 28, 2020, 11:03:41 AM
i don't think you will need it as the rear drive appears to be enclosed on the V85 as it was on my 1400.  there is a small rubber flap that provides access where the add hole is.  The 1400 did not have this access and you did the fluid each time you got a tire change because the tire had to come off in that model to access the add oil nut.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: MMRanch on April 29, 2020, 01:13:08 AM
This thread looks like a good idea to me :   

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Banjo-ID-10mm-Hose-ID-1-8-4mm-Bolt-Washer-Set-Barb-Fitting-Brake-Fuel-Kit-XY/324126250579?hash=item4b776e1653:m:mJrSrUdAjX1df6BJXoh dQwg

Any hose you want ... black would hide good .
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: greer on April 29, 2020, 05:23:00 AM
Thanks for the thread revival.  Doug and I hope to travel on our bikes, so we probably need to address this.  We've ridden thru miserable rain more times than I can count.

Sarah
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: SmithSwede on April 29, 2020, 05:35:34 PM
As I said earlier in the thread, my final drive stopped getting water in it after I sealed the rubber boot on the swing arm.  I have not modified the vent on top of the final drive.

I can confirm that I have not gotten any water into the final drive since fixing the boot, even though I have ridden through some real frog-drowners for hours at a time. 

Personally, I don't think it's the vent.  Or at least my vent doesn't seem to be the leak source. 
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Dirk_S on April 29, 2020, 05:44:36 PM
Iíll certainly find out if the vent mod helps or not. I drive quite a bit in rain, and the bikeís always kept outside. My dealer recommended I halve my final drive oil replacement, and I usually wind up draining out a mocha milkshake. If it occurs next time, Iím going straight after that boot with some RTV per your recommendation, SmithSwede!
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Vagrant on April 30, 2020, 10:23:13 AM
I did the best I could with silicone sealer on the boot. it's a bit hard to get to the back side but it made no difference on my 2017.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: lorengo70 on May 01, 2020, 10:13:03 AM
I did the best I could with silicone sealer on the boot. it's a bit hard to get to the back side but it made no difference on my 2017.


Hi Vagrant, been having the same problem with my V7 II. So, you are saying that sealing the boot did not work for you? (so I assume its the vent then). Did the banjo fix solve the problem then?
 
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: SmithSwede on May 01, 2020, 01:51:55 PM
Some thoughts.  Maybe you havenít gotten all the original water out of the final drive.  So when you drain it, it comes out water contaminated, and so you assume it is still leaking.  But maybe thatís just old water.   

Maybe try draining, filling with a cheap dino oil, ride a few hundred miles in dry weather, and see what it looks like when you drain it.  Keep doing that until you have gotten all the water out and the oil drains clear.

I think the definitive test is to pull the final drive off the swing arm.  No big deal.  Is there water or rust in the swing arm? There was on mine.  If there is water in the swing arm, thatís from the boot, not the vent.

If the swing arm is bone dry but the final drive oil keeps getting contaminated, then itís the vent, not the boot.

Finally, I think the cheap fix might just be to fit a piece of breathable foam over the vent.   That would probably still permit air/oil to vent if needed, but would prevent rain drops and mist from getting into the vent. 
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Vagrant on May 02, 2020, 07:23:56 AM
JUst ordered the new vent so not here yet.
Smith I did all that several times and the simplest washing seems to get it in there. alas I've been too lazy to pull it apart but if the new vent doesn't cure it I will break down sometime. I suspect there is a hole in the back of the boot where I can't feel / find it or when peeling it back to silicone it I missed a spot. hard to get to or see. I had built a cool homemade cover for the vent but it didn't help.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: chrisfer on May 02, 2020, 09:03:40 AM
Finally, I think the cheap fix might just be to fit a piece of breathable foam over the vent.   That would probably still permit air/oil to vent if needed, but would prevent rain drops and mist from getting into the vent.
a Goretex finger.  :thumb:
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: SmithSwede on May 02, 2020, 01:47:57 PM
JUst ordered the new vent so not here yet.
Smith I did all that several times and the simplest washing seems to get it in there.

Well, Vagrant, thereís your problem right there.  Youíre washing the bike.  Guzzis donít like that!

All kidding aside, I recall that my boot did not seem to be installed correctly from the factory.  I canít remeber exactly, but there is a circlip on the inside of the boot, and I think the rubber was kinda bunched up leaving a gap.  I removed the circlip, got silicone goop all in there, and then carefully reinstalled the circlip so the boot was stretched evenly all around. 

When I was done, it was not only waterproof, but airtight.  First time it got hot, the boot swelled up like a balloon.  I drilled a tiny vent hole in the boot on the side. 

Iím looking forward to seeing your new and improved system. 
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Vagrant on May 03, 2020, 06:46:31 AM
sounds like you took the whole thing apart and did it right.
when I get the vent done I'll purposely go spend a day in the rain and see what happens.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: jacksonracingcomau on May 03, 2020, 06:57:45 AM
Iíve had an sb for only a couple of years
Still havenít done it
Original 1984 (same as recent) works admirably in big rain, nn ingress whatsoever
I did, of course, fit uj boot.With  waterproof grease, no pinhole , airtight

About to test the thing crossing rivers
Remote vent essential , methinks
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: pyoungbl on May 03, 2020, 11:41:10 AM
Today I finally installed a remote vent on the V7 rear drive.  It's dead simple, M10 banjo bolt with barbed fitting, 1/4" polyethelyene tubing routed under the tank.  I'd rather have black tubing but....gotta use what is on hand.(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/13-V7-Special/i-KqmvpLN/0/c877dc79/M/IMG_0090-M.jpg).
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: SmithSwede on May 03, 2020, 11:50:56 AM
Pyoungbl: that looks really slick
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Dave Swanson on May 03, 2020, 12:52:10 PM
Looks good!  I will need to do that myself one day.

The PO of my V11 vented this way. 

(https://i.postimg.cc/kGh1Mvdt/IMG-3373.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bSkH3brz)
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: lorengo70 on May 05, 2020, 10:53:15 AM
Ok, thanks Vagrant & Smith. I have changed the vent to a new one and still get some chocolate milk like oil coming out. Will try what Smith said about cycling oil a few times to see if all the water comes out. If that doesnt fix it; then time  to pull the final drive off the swing arm (hopefully it doesnt get to that). Thanks for your comments.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: greer on June 17, 2020, 05:15:34 AM
Swapped the vent on the Nevada a couple of days ago, looks just like pyoungbl's except with a black hose, I ran it up behind the side cover. The fittings were just under $10 on Amazon and delivered in a couple of days.  Is there supposed to be a check valve in the factory vent?  Air passes thru it in both directions just as easy as can be.  Interesting to note the vent on the Roamer is recessed, and covered by a tight-fitting rubber flap.

Sarah
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Vagrant on June 17, 2020, 06:50:01 AM
I've owned 9 big blocks since 1972 and don't remember ever getting a drop of water in one of them.
My cousin and I met in maggie valley last Tuesday he on the 2015 V7 and me on the V85. now his v7 has never had water in it but being an Az. bike until now I doubt it ever had rain on it but many washings. Wed. it's pouring rain so we had 160+ miles on the Blue Ridge Pky getting drownded. When we headed home Friday am I noticed his vent was spitting oil everywhere. Sat am before leaving on a 300-mile ride I drained his rear end of milk and refilled with new oil. I drained it again after the 300 miles and it looked worse than the last drain so there must have been a bunch of water in there yet. I refilled and installed the above banjo so time will see. He also had a rear flat on Sat 80 miles into the ride.
I went to clean up the V85 yesterday and low and behold it has oil spray all over the rear tire. 3000 miles on it and dealer did do the recall. I just stuck a straw into the level hole and was greeted with milk. WT>>>Dealer is getting to fix this one but he's 250 miles each way.
the origional 2017 V7III that started all of this is waiting for a new regulator as it has decieded to quit charging. what fun. I was going to put a banjo bolt on it too but might just pull it apart like Smith suggested. I know there was a thread walking you through the process here somewhere.
I'm starting to get pissed!
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Bert Remington on June 17, 2020, 10:56:34 AM
Pete mentioned Speed Flow as a solution so I looked it and found this on Amazon:

(https://i.ibb.co/xsq481c/Speed-Flow-Filter.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xsq481c)

It's a OSHA muffler for air compressor tools.  I believe the metal "foam" will repel water especially with an oil film from the rear drive.  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Zoom Zoom on June 17, 2020, 02:46:25 PM
For this application I think it would likely be worse Bert.

ZZ
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: jpv7 on June 17, 2020, 03:44:53 PM
Today I finally installed a remote vent on the V7 rear drive.  It's dead simple, M10 banjo bolt with barbed fitting, 1/4" polyethelyene tubing routed under the tank.  I'd rather have black tubing but....gotta use what is on hand.(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/13-V7-Special/i-KqmvpLN/0/c877dc79/M/IMG_0090-M.jpg).
Looks good.  Can you please tell me where you got the barbed banjo fitting?
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Vagrant on June 18, 2020, 07:26:38 AM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRITDT-Banjo-Bolt-Kit-M10x1-5mm-w-1-8mm-Hole-SUBARU-TD04L-RHF5-Turbo-Oil-Feed/222595676853?hash=item33d3bc7ab5:g:QikAAOSwtnpaHRPr

this is the one but I'm sure I got it for $11. or so with free shipping but can't find the order.
paint it black and use a black vacuum line.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: ScepticalScotty on May 03, 2021, 07:31:26 AM
I'm having a bit of difficulty cleaning my vent cap so I might investigate that fix with a tube and banjo bolt. Looks neat and fuss free. BTW noticed a few drops of drive oil (only 4 or 5) on the rear wheel for the first time in 17 years (B750). Or maybe I have not been observant enough.  :cry:
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Zoom Zoom on May 03, 2021, 07:43:14 AM
Scotty, I just ordered and received these:

https://www.amazon.com/AUTOHAUX-Fittings-Washer-Bronze-Motorcycle/dp/B088QLM5SD/ref=pd_ybh_a_13?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=BAWQ88H0ZMX8YEX244AX

I got this because the barb was smaller in diameter than many. I am not sure if the threads are the proper count, but I figured a proper bolt would be easier to source than the banjo. I haven't gotten around to installing it yet. I have to get some hose and determine how to attach/route the vent hose. Anyway, I was unsuccessful in finding this size banjo in stainless, which I had hoped for.For 6 bucks, I didn't figure I could go too wrong.

John Henry
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: ScepticalScotty on May 03, 2021, 07:50:44 AM
Thanks JH thats maybe exactly what I need.  :thumb:
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Zoom Zoom on May 03, 2021, 08:00:38 AM
That bolt is listed as an M10X1.0.

I thought I had read somewhere on this thread it is actually M10X1.5 for our bikes. I figured if I need a different bolt I will be able to know it will work  with the banjo and crush washers. As long as the upper body of the bolt works with the thickness of the other pieces, I can trim the length with a dremel and a cutting wheel if necessary so as not to protrude into the inside of the final drive.

Now that the weather has improved in my little piece of the world, I'll likely dive into it sooner than later. I will report my findings/final solution on this thread.

John Henry
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: DaSwami on May 03, 2021, 08:18:55 AM
So I take it waiting until 12,000 miles to replace the rear drive oil (as per the factory recommendations) is probably a bad idea....
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Zoom Zoom on May 03, 2021, 08:50:55 AM
That does seem like a long time, and it is not hard to do like say a 1400. Speaking for myself, I'll likely change it when I do any oil change. Do them all at the same time. If what I drain out looks good, I might extend those intervals. Of course the proper way to make that determination would be to send the oil in for analysis. That would give you the most factual assessment, and allow for an educated decision.

John Henry
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on May 03, 2021, 12:05:05 PM
Some thoughts.  Maybe you havenít gotten all the original water out of the final drive.  So when you drain it, it comes out water contaminated, and so you assume it is still leaking.  But maybe thatís just old water.   

Maybe try draining, filling with a cheap dino oil, ride a few hundred miles in dry weather, and see what it looks like when you drain it.  Keep doing that until you have gotten all the water out and the oil drains clear.

I think the definitive test is to pull the final drive off the swing arm.  No big deal.  Is there water or rust in the swing arm? There was on mine.  If there is water in the swing arm, thatís from the boot, not the vent.

If the swing arm is bone dry but the final drive oil keeps getting contaminated, then itís the vent, not the boot.

Finally, I think the cheap fix might just be to fit a piece of breathable foam over the vent.   That would probably still permit air/oil to vent if needed, but would prevent rain drops and mist from getting into the vent.
This was my experience as well, if you look at the boot it's held on by a Q strap which was never designed for the purpose of sealing anything, the very Q shape ensures there's a point that has zero pressure and of course the gap is right at the bottom where it scoops up water from the front tire. After a long ride in wet weather oil was spraying over the rear tire, I must have drained 100 ml of water out the drain plug before oil came out.
I don't believe there is any seal on the front bearing of the rear end so anything in the drive shaft area has free access.
I found a metal band strap with a much better shape but I also used silicone and I grease the surface of the rear flange, water and grease are not compatible.
I made a vent line using brake line but I never installed it after SmithSwede posted his findings, I think the existing vent is ok unless you are doing river crossings in which case the sudden cooling will suck in water for sure.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: SmithSwede on May 03, 2021, 04:21:20 PM
I personally wouldnít go 12,000 miles on the same final drive oil.  It is a small amount of oil and easy to change.  Even if the old oil came out looking good, I figure you are still doing the drive a favor by changing the oil more often since you eliminate any metal contaminants and moisture.  Oil can be severely degraded by moisture and still look ok.  By the time it looks like chocolate milkshake you have added a LOT of water. 

And yes, I donít think the seal on the front of the input shaft is capable of preventing water in the swing arm from migrating into the final drive.  Iíve taken to slathering a fair glop of marine grease in front of that seal to help it ward off small amounts of water that might try to get in. 

Iíve wondered about doing the ďRussian solution.Ē   Pack the whole swing arm in grease.  But that would be an unholy mess on disassembly, and maybe a fire hazard at high speeds.   But if someone else wants to try that, Iíd be curious about the results
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: elvisboy77 on May 03, 2021, 04:33:43 PM
So I take it waiting until 12,000 miles to replace the rear drive oil (as per the factory recommendations) is probably a bad idea....

The V85 is inspect every 6 k, replace every 18k.  Simply terrifying! LOL I supposed if you checked it enough you would see if water got in.  So far, riding in the rain, 3k miles no issues on my V85
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Muzz on May 03, 2021, 11:50:24 PM
Would anybody have a picture of Pete's solution?  Is this a similar kit?

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3208

Sarah

Pete's looked a lot nicer in that it used braided stainless steel hose.  Looked very nice indeed.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Dirk_S on May 04, 2021, 08:32:52 AM
I know theyíre not the same bike, but I thought it would at least be interesting to share that my new-to-me 2015 Ural calls for all oilsóengine, transmission, and final driveóto be replaced every service interval. Thatís something Iím considering with the V7 since I drive in rain and keep the bike out in the coastal New England elements. Granted, that Ural service is every 5,000 km (3,125 mi). Oh, and they also sell that banjo-hose fitting for their vent opening. Something about people with Urals like to cross rivers or something.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on May 04, 2021, 05:27:13 PM
I canít remeber exactly, but there is a circlip on the inside of the boot, and I think the rubber was kinda bunched up leaving a gap.  I removed the circlip, got silicone goop all in there, and then carefully reinstalled the circlip so the boot was stretched evenly all around. 
 
That circlip is the problem, the ends don't meet leaving an unsupported section of boot and it's almost impossible to get it out without ripping the boot, you cannot get a grip in it.
I had to order a new boot, when I eventually install it I will make a new ciip with provision for grabbing with circlip pliers.
At the moment it's watertight by virtue of all the silicon I used.
I would strongly suggest getting a spare boot before thinking of doing anything with it.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Bulldog9 on May 05, 2021, 09:47:10 AM
JUst ordered the new vent so not here yet.
Smith I did all that several times and the simplest washing seems to get it in there. alas I've been too lazy to pull it apart but if the new vent doesn't cure it I will break down sometime. I suspect there is a hole in the back of the boot where I can't feel / find it or when peeling it back to silicone it I missed a spot. hard to get to or see. I had built a cool homemade cover for the vent but it didn't help.

Did you try routing the vent with a hose routed up under the seat?
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Vagrant on May 05, 2021, 05:35:02 PM
I did my 17 and my cousins 15 last spring but somehow survived the summer without getting wet. That kind of luck just doesn't happen the S/E. It's up under the seat with a piece of face mask over the end to keep contaminants out.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: chrisfer on May 06, 2021, 12:53:18 AM
The vent which is originally installed has a valve that allows the air to come out very easily but not to return.
This allows the air to be sucked in through the seals, thus preventing oil loss and also not contaminating the air too much.
To evacuate the condensation, the water, in the swingarm, I made a small hole at the bottom of the rubber seal (rubber boot), and that's fine.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Zoom Zoom on August 13, 2021, 11:13:12 AM
Scotty, I just ordered and received these:

https://www.amazon.com/AUTOHAUX-Fittings-Washer-Bronze-Motorcycle/dp/B088QLM5SD/ref=pd_ybh_a_13?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=BAWQ88H0ZMX8YEX244AX

I got this because the barb was smaller in diameter than many. I am not sure if the threads are the proper count, but I figured a proper bolt would be easier to source than the banjo. I haven't gotten around to installing it yet. I have to get some hose and determine how to attach/route the vent hose. Anyway, I was unsuccessful in finding this size banjo in stainless, which I had hoped for.For 6 bucks, I didn't figure I could go too wrong.

John Henry

A little update on this. First, I have not been too worried about this since my riding has been confined to local riding, but since I figure on riding this down to the Ohio Rally I ought to be prepared for rain.

I removed the vent to check the threads on the bolt itself. The fitting in the link above has the wrong thread on the bolt, which I expected, so off to the auto parts store this morning to find a suitable bolt. I found one at O'Reilly's. This bolt has the proper threads and the vent hole coming out the side lands in the proper space. What I did see is that I may need to shorten the end of the bolt just to make sure it does not contact the ring gear. Maybe not, but I haven't checked it yet. Needless to say, you don't want things making contact.

So here is the bolt I picked up today:
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/brakebest-hardware-hydraulics/brakebest-banjo-bolt/bhh0/h94582?q=H9458-2&pos=0

I also bought a chunk of rubber hose to fit the barb fitting of the banjo.

I'll update with pics when I get this finished sometime in the next couple days.

John Henry
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: rodekyll on August 13, 2021, 12:04:04 PM
Don't shorten the bolt.  If there is a length problem, add sealing washers instead.  We often stack washers to make a gap or center an oil hole.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Muzz on August 13, 2021, 05:46:39 PM
So I take it waiting until 12,000 miles to replace the rear drive oil (as per the factory recommendations) is probably a bad idea....

Reading through this thread again, my smallblock Breva rear drive has only 190mls of oil in it; I replace wile doing a fluids change.  Hardly going to break the bank.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: SmithSwede on August 13, 2021, 08:01:20 PM
Reading through this thread again, my smallblock Breva rear drive has only 190mls of oil in it; I replace wile doing a fluids change.  Hardly going to break the bank.

You put 190 cc of oil in the final?  Wow.  Are you related to Thurston Howell III?

You really only need 170 cc.  Save that extra 20 cc and after 9 changes you have enough free oil for the next one.   Guzzi content !

 :boozing:
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Muzz on August 14, 2021, 04:24:04 AM
You put 190 cc of oil in the final?  Wow.  Are you related to Thurston Howell III?

You really only need 170 cc.  Save that extra 20 cc and after 9 changes you have enough free oil for the next one.   Guzzi content !

 :boozing:

 :laugh:  Book says 190 for the Breva Prescott.  On the first change I measured it, and at 190 it just starts running out of the inspection hole.  Works for me.
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: moto-uno on August 15, 2021, 02:55:43 PM
  You mean you let some run out !!!! It's the Scottish in me  :laugh:.  Peter
Title: Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
Post by: Muzz on August 15, 2021, 07:18:29 PM
  You mean you let some run out !!!! It's the Scottish in me  :laugh:.  Peter

Not so.  I too have haggis running in my veins. :grin:  As soon as I saw the oil beginning to fill up the threads the bung went in.  Never lost a precious drop. :thumb: :laugh: