Author Topic: Tight or loose floating brake rotors  (Read 802 times)

Offline nwguy

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Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« on: August 22, 2021, 10:44:27 AM »
My floating rotors on the front wheel of my Norge really do float. If you grab them and try to move them around, they do. There's maybe a millimeter or 2 of movement. In fact they're so loose that when I back my bike out of the garage with the engine off I hear them rattle as the wheel turns. I assumed this is normal and desirable. However at the last Guzzi rally I attended, I tried moving the floating rotors on maybe 10 different bikes, and all of them wouldn't move at all. I know there are ways to "fix" this (spin the buttons with a bolt, nut and drill while spraying them with brake cleaner). I'm curious if I'm thinking about this incorrectly. Do your floating rotors really float? If not, do you care? Have you tried to "fix" them?
Current:  2008 Norge, 2002 Honda Reflex Scooter

Past:  3 Buell Lightnings, 2002 BMW R1150RS
2005 Ducati Multistrada, First gen Kawasaki Concours, Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic, 2002 Honda ST110, Aprilia Falco, Suzuki VX800, Yamaha Radian, Suzuki TS185, Yamaha RD400

Online sdcr

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2021, 10:49:54 AM »
I would rather have the floaters, float, than not move at all. They’re are designed to be “loose”.  Of course, after a hundred thousand miles or so, the buttons will show some wear. The ones on my BMW make a clacking noise as well. My dealer suggested that I not replace them at this point.


My floating rotors on the front wheel of my Norge really do float. If you grab them and try to move them around, they do. There's maybe a millimeter or 2 of movement. In fact they're so loose that when I back my bike out of the garage with the engine off I hear them rattle as the wheel turns. I assumed this is normal and desirable. However at the last Guzzi rally I attended, I tried moving the floating rotors on maybe 10 different bikes, and all of them wouldn't move at all. I know there are ways to "fix" this (spin the buttons with a bolt, nut and drill while spraying them with brake cleaner). I'm curious if I'm thinking about this incorrectly. Do your floating rotors really float? If not, do you care? Have you tried to "fix" them?
John
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2009 Jaguar XK

Offline moto-uno

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2021, 10:56:41 AM »
  If one was ever around the early(ish) Buell's you could hear the brake rotors almost before the exhaust .
  Yet no one ever complained about how well they stopped !  Peter

Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2021, 01:54:01 PM »
Original rotors as delivered would be semi floating rotors. Better than non floating, (rigid), rotors. Best is full floating rotors which can be had aftermarket. Brembo and other makers sell them. At parking lot speeds, the bobbins will actually rattle as you move.

John Henry

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2021, 01:54:01 PM »

Online lucian

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2021, 01:57:50 PM »
Many times a pulse in the front brakes is caused by stuck rotor buttons. An easy fix is to chuck a proper sized screw extractor( easy out) in a drill , stick it in the button hole and give them a spin . Drill in reverse of course,  and spray with some solvent cleaner.  It doesn't take too long for them to get gummed up and stop floating as they should.  Works a treat

Online jwinwi

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2021, 04:28:47 PM »
Many times a pulse in the front brakes is caused by stuck rotor buttons. An easy fix is to chuck a proper sized screw extractor( easy out) in a drill , stick it in the button hole and give them a spin . Drill in reverse of course,  and spray with some solvent cleaner.  It doesn't take too long for them to get gummed up and stop floating as they should.  Works a treat

Thank you Lucian.  :thumb:
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Offline Vagrant

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2021, 04:36:56 PM »
Just ignore them and spend your money on good bourbon and fine cigars. Bike will stop fine either way.
HE IS FREE WHO LIVES AS HE CHOOSES
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Offline n3303j

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2021, 10:51:26 AM »
'98 EV had a great front brake until the buttons bound up and rotor stopped floating. When they bound the disk did not run true and would excessively push back the pads. The lever would bottom out before brakes were fully pressured. At stop several pumps brought the lever back to normal. Next forward run and lever bottomed at stop again.

I did the "spin & clean" the button thing until the disk once again floated and all braking problems disappeared.

Floating is good!
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Online blackcat

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2021, 11:21:38 AM »
I've never had any issues with the full floaters on the Daytona but it is a regular maintenance item on the Norge. Yes, different discs but for some reason the Norge discs are always getting gummed up.
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Offline Mayor_of_BBQ

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2021, 11:43:54 AM »
I use a short flange bolt and a flange nut, the threads pass thru the bobbin center and the flanges catch the sides of the bobbin itself... spin it with a bit driver while I'm spraying brake cleaner in there. Solved the front rotor pulse on my Breva 1100. 

Even after cleaning, the disc is not 'loose' on the carrier, but there are some wave washer type things to hold it reasonably steady on the carrier/spider. This is the only floating disc bike I own, so i have nothing to compare it to.
Chad (Shadrach) in Asheville NC
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Offline acguzzi

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2021, 03:22:55 PM »
I went from full floating to partial, I found that on a rough road the rattling of the disc pushed the pistons back in the caliper so you I had to pump the brakes every time I wanted to use them, partial floating fixed that. I'd ran them fully floating for several months before I discovered a bad enough surface to cause this problem but it was real enough, risky, and a pain. So spring loaded floaters for me.

Offline Dukedesmo

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2021, 02:23:02 AM »
My Guzzi's discs are fixed, no float as they're from the 1970's but both my Ducatis have full-floating and both have suffered from wear.


On the Monster that has steel carriers/alloy buttons, the buttons wore out to the point that there really was excessive movement whereas on the 916 which has alloy carriers/buttons, the carriers wore whilst the buttons were fine and the actual disc itself was still perfect.


I like the full floaters but you need to keep on top of the wear.
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Offline nwguy

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2021, 08:41:55 PM »
OK, my rotors float so much at this point that I'm worried about them failing. They've gotten worse over my most recent trip and move around a lot. Crazy amount of rattling noise when I hit a bump. I showed the movement to various people at the Fossil, OR rally recently and there was a consensus that they were unsafe. I guess the aluminum center part wears over time. Seems like it would be the wear point rather than the stainless steel buttons or outer rotor part. So a few questions:

Does anyone have a set of good rotors that would fit an 08' Norge that they're interested in selling?

Any opinions about replacement rotors? They're pretty pricy. These have about the best price I've seen on Ebay for new replacements:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/265089269591

Though they don't show the ABS ring thing. Would I just transfer mine to the new rotor?

Would you buy used rotors from Ebay where they say they were pulled from an 08 Norge?

Can you re-use the old mounting bolts to install the new rotors?


My Guzzi's discs are fixed, no float as they're from the 1970's but both my Ducatis have full-floating and both have suffered from wear.


On the Monster that has steel carriers/alloy buttons, the buttons wore out to the point that there really was excessive movement whereas on the 916 which has alloy carriers/buttons, the carriers wore whilst the buttons were fine and the actual disc itself was still perfect.


I like the full floaters but you need to keep on top of the wear.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 08:48:56 PM by nwguy »
Current:  2008 Norge, 2002 Honda Reflex Scooter

Past:  3 Buell Lightnings, 2002 BMW R1150RS
2005 Ducati Multistrada, First gen Kawasaki Concours, Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic, 2002 Honda ST110, Aprilia Falco, Suzuki VX800, Yamaha Radian, Suzuki TS185, Yamaha RD400

Offline RinkRat II

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2021, 11:36:09 PM »

       Something else to check is the brake pads themselves. Some have external anti- rattle springs and others have them built into the pads. At low speeds they'll sound terrible if they are worn. Semi floaters shouldn't rattle.

      Paul B :boozing:
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Offline nwguy

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2021, 11:49:32 PM »
       Something else to check is the brake pads themselves. Some have external anti- rattle springs and others have them built into the pads. At low speeds they'll sound terrible if they are worn. Semi floaters shouldn't rattle.

      Paul B :boozing:

No, it's obvious that the rotors are rattling. If you grab them and move them up and down, they move a lot. I'm afraid the buttons are going to pull out of the aluminum ring when breaking hard.
Current:  2008 Norge, 2002 Honda Reflex Scooter

Past:  3 Buell Lightnings, 2002 BMW R1150RS
2005 Ducati Multistrada, First gen Kawasaki Concours, Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic, 2002 Honda ST110, Aprilia Falco, Suzuki VX800, Yamaha Radian, Suzuki TS185, Yamaha RD400

Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2021, 05:27:35 AM »
No, it's obvious that the rotors are rattling. If you grab them and move them up and down, they move a lot. I'm afraid the buttons are going to pull out of the aluminum ring when breaking hard.

Are you the original owner?

John Henry
A wide, unfettered road ahead,
and the flying motor singing.
Samuel C. Lancaster 1921

Offline nwguy

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2021, 09:46:23 AM »
Are you the original owner?

John Henry

No. Why do you as?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 09:46:46 AM by nwguy »
Current:  2008 Norge, 2002 Honda Reflex Scooter

Past:  3 Buell Lightnings, 2002 BMW R1150RS
2005 Ducati Multistrada, First gen Kawasaki Concours, Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic, 2002 Honda ST110, Aprilia Falco, Suzuki VX800, Yamaha Radian, Suzuki TS185, Yamaha RD400

Online SmithSwede

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2021, 10:44:08 AM »
I think you are making the right decision.  I’m changing the front  rotor on my V7 Stone in a few thousand miles when I change the front tire. 

It is quite loose and rattles.  Obvious side to side play, and up and down play.  When leaning hard left, it clicks and hits something in the caliper.  It never was like this before, so it’s a wear issue, not something normal.

I got a new disc from EBC, which has essentially no discernible play, unless you really muscle it. 

FYI, EBC makes a big deal about the need to replace the brake pads when replacing the disc.   
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Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2021, 11:22:48 AM »
No. Why do you ask?

Because I think the PO put some high dollar rotors on the bike because one of the originals warped and now you're looking for an excuse to replace them with something not as good.

Full floating : The best (What I believe you have on your bike.)
Semi floating: Better but not the best. (Installed by Guzzi from the factory for many years now.)
Rigid rotors: Okay (But not as good as the other two, but better than drum brakes.)


John Henry
« Last Edit: September 19, 2021, 11:27:25 AM by Zoom Zoom »
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Online jwinwi

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2021, 07:51:54 AM »
I believe these were the OEM ones on your Norge? https://www.ebay.com/itm/123866321083?hash=item1cd70210bb:g:78oAAOSwlWFdSemD
EDIT: This type of Brembo rotor is also available without holes for the ABS sensor ring.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 08:32:16 AM by jwinwi »
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Offline nwguy

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2021, 09:21:11 AM »
John, I'm pretty sure mine are the original OEM rotors based on their appearance.

Jwinwi, not sure how I feel about buying used rotors. The ones in the link you sent do have a 30 day return policy though. I'm going to ask the seller if the outer rotor ring is tight or loose (and how loose) on the inner aluminum ring.
Current:  2008 Norge, 2002 Honda Reflex Scooter

Past:  3 Buell Lightnings, 2002 BMW R1150RS
2005 Ducati Multistrada, First gen Kawasaki Concours, Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic, 2002 Honda ST110, Aprilia Falco, Suzuki VX800, Yamaha Radian, Suzuki TS185, Yamaha RD400

Offline nwguy

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2021, 02:00:48 PM »
Not to beat a dead horse about this, I posted a video on youtube showing how loose my rotors are. You can also see how worn the gold anodized, aluminum carrier is. Also see the attached, slightly blurry pics. So to those who've said "that's how they're supposed to be", does this change your opinion?

You tube link here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXtFyJE97gE

Close up pics of the worn carrier:




Current:  2008 Norge, 2002 Honda Reflex Scooter

Past:  3 Buell Lightnings, 2002 BMW R1150RS
2005 Ducati Multistrada, First gen Kawasaki Concours, Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic, 2002 Honda ST110, Aprilia Falco, Suzuki VX800, Yamaha Radian, Suzuki TS185, Yamaha RD400

Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: Tight or loose floating brake rotors
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2021, 02:43:18 PM »
Okay, even without seeing the back [that might help identify] semi or full, that is, without any doubt, excessive wear.

Yes, you do indeed need to replace those.

I have never seen carriers with that much wear on them. The pics and video are very telling.

John Henry
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and the flying motor singing.
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