Author Topic: V7 III water in final drive oil  (Read 4650 times)

Offline chrisfer

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2020, 09:03:40 AM »
Finally, I think the cheap fix might just be to fit a piece of breathable foam over the vent.   That would probably still permit air/oil to vent if needed, but would prevent rain drops and mist from getting into the vent.
a Goretex finger.  :thumb:
« Last Edit: May 02, 2020, 09:04:22 AM by chrisfer »
2018 V7 III Carbon

Offline SmithSwede

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2020, 01:47:57 PM »
JUst ordered the new vent so not here yet.
Smith I did all that several times and the simplest washing seems to get it in there.

Well, Vagrant, thereís your problem right there.  Youíre washing the bike.  Guzzis donít like that!

All kidding aside, I recall that my boot did not seem to be installed correctly from the factory.  I canít remeber exactly, but there is a circlip on the inside of the boot, and I think the rubber was kinda bunched up leaving a gap.  I removed the circlip, got silicone goop all in there, and then carefully reinstalled the circlip so the boot was stretched evenly all around. 

When I was done, it was not only waterproof, but airtight.  First time it got hot, the boot swelled up like a balloon.  I drilled a tiny vent hole in the boot on the side. 

Iím looking forward to seeing your new and improved system. 
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Offline Vagrant

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2020, 06:46:31 AM »
sounds like you took the whole thing apart and did it right.
when I get the vent done I'll purposely go spend a day in the rain and see what happens.
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Offline jacksonracingcomau

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2020, 06:57:45 AM »
Iíve had an sb for only a couple of years
Still havenít done it
Original 1984 (same as recent) works admirably in big rain, nn ingress whatsoever
I did, of course, fit uj boot.With  waterproof grease, no pinhole , airtight

About to test the thing crossing rivers
Remote vent essential , methinks
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 07:17:16 AM by jacksonracingcomau »

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2020, 06:57:45 AM »

Offline pyoungbl

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2020, 11:41:10 AM »
Today I finally installed a remote vent on the V7 rear drive.  It's dead simple, M10 banjo bolt with barbed fitting, 1/4" polyethelyene tubing routed under the tank.  I'd rather have black tubing but....gotta use what is on hand..
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Offline SmithSwede

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2020, 11:50:56 AM »
Pyoungbl: that looks really slick
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Online Dave Swanson

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2020, 12:52:10 PM »
Looks good!  I will need to do that myself one day.

The PO of my V11 vented this way. 

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Offline lorengo70

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2020, 10:53:15 AM »
Ok, thanks Vagrant & Smith. I have changed the vent to a new one and still get some chocolate milk like oil coming out. Will try what Smith said about cycling oil a few times to see if all the water comes out. If that doesnt fix it; then time  to pull the final drive off the swing arm (hopefully it doesnt get to that). Thanks for your comments.
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Offline greer

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2020, 05:15:34 AM »
Swapped the vent on the Nevada a couple of days ago, looks just like pyoungbl's except with a black hose, I ran it up behind the side cover. The fittings were just under $10 on Amazon and delivered in a couple of days.  Is there supposed to be a check valve in the factory vent?  Air passes thru it in both directions just as easy as can be.  Interesting to note the vent on the Roamer is recessed, and covered by a tight-fitting rubber flap.

Sarah
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 05:16:46 AM by greer »
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Offline Vagrant

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2020, 06:50:01 AM »
I've owned 9 big blocks since 1972 and don't remember ever getting a drop of water in one of them.
My cousin and I met in maggie valley last Tuesday he on the 2015 V7 and me on the V85. now his v7 has never had water in it but being an Az. bike until now I doubt it ever had rain on it but many washings. Wed. it's pouring rain so we had 160+ miles on the Blue Ridge Pky getting drownded. When we headed home Friday am I noticed his vent was spitting oil everywhere. Sat am before leaving on a 300-mile ride I drained his rear end of milk and refilled with new oil. I drained it again after the 300 miles and it looked worse than the last drain so there must have been a bunch of water in there yet. I refilled and installed the above banjo so time will see. He also had a rear flat on Sat 80 miles into the ride.
I went to clean up the V85 yesterday and low and behold it has oil spray all over the rear tire. 3000 miles on it and dealer did do the recall. I just stuck a straw into the level hole and was greeted with milk. WT>>>Dealer is getting to fix this one but he's 250 miles each way.
the origional 2017 V7III that started all of this is waiting for a new regulator as it has decieded to quit charging. what fun. I was going to put a banjo bolt on it too but might just pull it apart like Smith suggested. I know there was a thread walking you through the process here somewhere.
I'm starting to get pissed!
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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2020, 10:56:34 AM »
Pete mentioned Speed Flow as a solution so I looked it and found this on Amazon:



It's a OSHA muffler for air compressor tools.  I believe the metal "foam" will repel water especially with an oil film from the rear drive.  Any thoughts?

Offline Zoom Zoom

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2020, 02:46:25 PM »
For this application I think it would likely be worse Bert.

ZZ

Offline jpv7

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2020, 03:44:53 PM »
Today I finally installed a remote vent on the V7 rear drive.  It's dead simple, M10 banjo bolt with barbed fitting, 1/4" polyethelyene tubing routed under the tank.  I'd rather have black tubing but....gotta use what is on hand..
Looks good.  Can you please tell me where you got the barbed banjo fitting?

Offline Vagrant

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2020, 07:26:38 AM »
https://www.ebay.com/itm/TRITDT-Banjo-Bolt-Kit-M10x1-5mm-w-1-8mm-Hole-SUBARU-TD04L-RHF5-Turbo-Oil-Feed/222595676853?hash=item33d3bc7ab5:g:QikAAOSwtnpaHRPr

this is the one but I'm sure I got it for $11. or so with free shipping but can't find the order.
paint it black and use a black vacuum line.
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Offline ScepticalScotty

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2021, 07:31:26 AM »
I'm having a bit of difficulty cleaning my vent cap so I might investigate that fix with a tube and banjo bolt. Looks neat and fuss free. BTW noticed a few drops of drive oil (only 4 or 5) on the rear wheel for the first time in 17 years (B750). Or maybe I have not been observant enough.  :cry:
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Offline ScepticalScotty

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2021, 07:50:44 AM »
Thanks JH thats maybe exactly what I need.  :thumb:
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Offline DaSwami

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2021, 08:18:55 AM »
So I take it waiting until 12,000 miles to replace the rear drive oil (as per the factory recommendations) is probably a bad idea....

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2021, 12:05:05 PM »
Some thoughts.  Maybe you havenít gotten all the original water out of the final drive.  So when you drain it, it comes out water contaminated, and so you assume it is still leaking.  But maybe thatís just old water.   

Maybe try draining, filling with a cheap dino oil, ride a few hundred miles in dry weather, and see what it looks like when you drain it.  Keep doing that until you have gotten all the water out and the oil drains clear.

I think the definitive test is to pull the final drive off the swing arm.  No big deal.  Is there water or rust in the swing arm? There was on mine.  If there is water in the swing arm, thatís from the boot, not the vent.

If the swing arm is bone dry but the final drive oil keeps getting contaminated, then itís the vent, not the boot.

Finally, I think the cheap fix might just be to fit a piece of breathable foam over the vent.   That would probably still permit air/oil to vent if needed, but would prevent rain drops and mist from getting into the vent.
This was my experience as well, if you look at the boot it's held on by a Q strap which was never designed for the purpose of sealing anything, the very Q shape ensures there's a point that has zero pressure and of course the gap is right at the bottom where it scoops up water from the front tire. After a long ride in wet weather oil was spraying over the rear tire, I must have drained 100 ml of water out the drain plug before oil came out.
I don't believe there is any seal on the front bearing of the rear end so anything in the drive shaft area has free access.
I found a metal band strap with a much better shape but I also used silicone and I grease the surface of the rear flange, water and grease are not compatible.
I made a vent line using brake line but I never installed it after SmithSwede posted his findings, I think the existing vent is ok unless you are doing river crossings in which case the sudden cooling will suck in water for sure.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 12:10:29 PM by Kiwi_Roy »
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Offline SmithSwede

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2021, 04:21:20 PM »
I personally wouldnít go 12,000 miles on the same final drive oil.  It is a small amount of oil and easy to change.  Even if the old oil came out looking good, I figure you are still doing the drive a favor by changing the oil more often since you eliminate any metal contaminants and moisture.  Oil can be severely degraded by moisture and still look ok.  By the time it looks like chocolate milkshake you have added a LOT of water. 

And yes, I donít think the seal on the front of the input shaft is capable of preventing water in the swing arm from migrating into the final drive.  Iíve taken to slathering a fair glop of marine grease in front of that seal to help it ward off small amounts of water that might try to get in. 

Iíve wondered about doing the ďRussian solution.Ē   Pack the whole swing arm in grease.  But that would be an unholy mess on disassembly, and maybe a fire hazard at high speeds.   But if someone else wants to try that, Iíd be curious about the results
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 04:22:50 PM by SmithSwede »
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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2021, 04:33:43 PM »
So I take it waiting until 12,000 miles to replace the rear drive oil (as per the factory recommendations) is probably a bad idea....

The V85 is inspect every 6 k, replace every 18k.  Simply terrifying! LOL I supposed if you checked it enough you would see if water got in.  So far, riding in the rain, 3k miles no issues on my V85

Offline Muzz

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2021, 11:50:24 PM »
Would anybody have a picture of Pete's solution?  Is this a similar kit?

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3208

Sarah

Pete's looked a lot nicer in that it used braided stainless steel hose.  Looked very nice indeed.
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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2021, 08:32:52 AM »
I know theyíre not the same bike, but I thought it would at least be interesting to share that my new-to-me 2015 Ural calls for all oilsóengine, transmission, and final driveóto be replaced every service interval. Thatís something Iím considering with the V7 since I drive in rain and keep the bike out in the coastal New England elements. Granted, that Ural service is every 5,000 km (3,125 mi). Oh, and they also sell that banjo-hose fitting for their vent opening. Something about people with Urals like to cross rivers or something.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 10:06:58 AM by Dirk_S »
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Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2021, 05:27:13 PM »
I canít remeber exactly, but there is a circlip on the inside of the boot, and I think the rubber was kinda bunched up leaving a gap.  I removed the circlip, got silicone goop all in there, and then carefully reinstalled the circlip so the boot was stretched evenly all around. 
 
That circlip is the problem, the ends don't meet leaving an unsupported section of boot and it's almost impossible to get it out without ripping the boot, you cannot get a grip in it.
I had to order a new boot, when I eventually install it I will make a new ciip with provision for grabbing with circlip pliers.
At the moment it's watertight by virtue of all the silicon I used.
I would strongly suggest getting a spare boot before thinking of doing anything with it.
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Offline Bulldog9

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2021, 09:47:10 AM »
JUst ordered the new vent so not here yet.
Smith I did all that several times and the simplest washing seems to get it in there. alas I've been too lazy to pull it apart but if the new vent doesn't cure it I will break down sometime. I suspect there is a hole in the back of the boot where I can't feel / find it or when peeling it back to silicone it I missed a spot. hard to get to or see. I had built a cool homemade cover for the vent but it didn't help.

Did you try routing the vent with a hose routed up under the seat?
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Offline Vagrant

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #54 on: May 05, 2021, 05:35:02 PM »
I did my 17 and my cousins 15 last spring but somehow survived the summer without getting wet. That kind of luck just doesn't happen the S/E. It's up under the seat with a piece of face mask over the end to keep contaminants out.
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Offline chrisfer

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #55 on: May 06, 2021, 12:53:18 AM »
The vent which is originally installed has a valve that allows the air to come out very easily but not to return.
This allows the air to be sucked in through the seals, thus preventing oil loss and also not contaminating the air too much.
To evacuate the condensation, the water, in the swingarm, I made a small hole at the bottom of the rubber seal (rubber boot), and that's fine.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 12:53:49 AM by chrisfer »
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Online rodekyll

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2021, 12:04:04 PM »
Don't shorten the bolt.  If there is a length problem, add sealing washers instead.  We often stack washers to make a gap or center an oil hole.

Offline Muzz

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2021, 05:46:39 PM »
So I take it waiting until 12,000 miles to replace the rear drive oil (as per the factory recommendations) is probably a bad idea....

Reading through this thread again, my smallblock Breva rear drive has only 190mls of oil in it; I replace wile doing a fluids change.  Hardly going to break the bank.
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Offline SmithSwede

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2021, 08:01:20 PM »
Reading through this thread again, my smallblock Breva rear drive has only 190mls of oil in it; I replace wile doing a fluids change.  Hardly going to break the bank.

You put 190 cc of oil in the final?  Wow.  Are you related to Thurston Howell III?

You really only need 170 cc.  Save that extra 20 cc and after 9 changes you have enough free oil for the next one.   Guzzi content !

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Offline Muzz

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Re: V7 III water in final drive oil
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2021, 04:24:04 AM »
You put 190 cc of oil in the final?  Wow.  Are you related to Thurston Howell III?

You really only need 170 cc.  Save that extra 20 cc and after 9 changes you have enough free oil for the next one.   Guzzi content !

 :boozing:

 :laugh:  Book says 190 for the Breva Prescott.  On the first change I measured it, and at 190 it just starts running out of the inspection hole.  Works for me.
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