Author Topic: Ty wrap brittleness  (Read 811 times)

Online John A

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4572
  • No way to slow down...
  • Location: Hager city ,western WI
Ty wrap brittleness
« on: December 25, 2022, 06:16:44 PM »
Iíve had problems getting decent Ty wraps, zip ties . Especially in large sizes, 20 inches or better. They must be old in most of the stores for they are useless, they break easily. Very brittle. I have some leftover de ice boot preservative I may try on them. It doesnít seem to matter about temperature, they are brittle as well when warm. Maybe I can get some fresh ones somewhere, anybody know where? Thanks
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
99 Bassa, sidecar
02 Stone
84 V65C
15 F3S Spyder

Online Zenermaniac

  • Hatchling
  • **
  • Posts: 173
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2022, 06:48:46 PM »
Go for the black ones. The natural and colors are prone to breaking down from UV exposure.

Online John A

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4572
  • No way to slow down...
  • Location: Hager city ,western WI
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2022, 06:58:46 PM »
I did , no difference
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
99 Bassa, sidecar
02 Stone
84 V65C
15 F3S Spyder

Offline bmc5733946

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 755
  • Location: East Lansing, MI
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2022, 07:54:45 PM »
Look for ones that say they are UV protected. If not marked as such they aren't. UV breaks down many types of plastic, find a quality industrial supplier, McMaster Carr, Grainger, MSC, etc., read the specs very carefully regarding load and UV survival.

Brian
1989 MILLE GT 
2004 BREVA 750     
1975  Convert

Wildguzzi.com

Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2022, 07:54:45 PM »

Online John A

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4572
  • No way to slow down...
  • Location: Hager city ,western WI
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2022, 09:30:26 PM »
I was trying to buy locally but have been frustrated at the quality, it doesnít matter the vendor or color or published specifications, they have been junk even though I try to buy the best ones available. I use them to hold on snow tire chains on my powerchair. Itís like all of them in the Midwest are old and brittle. Two options Iím contemplating are to get some from a law enforcement supplier or make up a set of chains that donít use Ty wraps. There is not much clearance between the wheels and the frame and if I could find ties that would meet 50% of their claimed strength, that would work fine. I just donít like the idea of having to discard 90% of the ones I buy because they are defective crap. Either they slip on the cogs or they snap off at random places, no matter if they are at a stabilized sixty five degrees or not. I was hoping someone here had a solution or had recently bought some the were not defective. As the end user I donít want to be the quality assurance department but it is my responsibility as the installer to decide on their suitability. Most of them fail at installation .Thanks
« Last Edit: December 25, 2022, 09:50:24 PM by John A »
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
99 Bassa, sidecar
02 Stone
84 V65C
15 F3S Spyder

Online fotoguzzi

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 19809
  • vee git tooh soon oldt und too late wise -my Dad
MINNEAPOLIS, MN

Online John A

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4572
  • No way to slow down...
  • Location: Hager city ,western WI
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2022, 10:18:16 PM »
Thanks, Brad. I think I will try the stainless ones. The tires are knobby and the zip ties go in the valley. I put the chains on the outboard side so they wonít come in contact with the floor but grip in the snow as the tire sinks in a little. It really works good and I didnít want to spend the time to make up a set of chains with proper cross links. It reminds me of fitting chains on semiís in the Cascades. When you spend a day doing that, you realize you have done a dayís work!
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
99 Bassa, sidecar
02 Stone
84 V65C
15 F3S Spyder

Online Stevex

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 950
  • Location: North Yorkshire, England.
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2022, 06:16:13 AM »
I've always used aviation industry ty raps. Can't remember one ever letting go.

Steve
1980 Le Mans II
2009 Honda CB1300S
2005 Aprilia Tuono
Chief mechanic to wife's 696 Monster

If you think pushing 60 is bad, wait 'til you have to start dragging it.

Offline berniebee

  • 2020 Board Donor
  • Gaggle Mentor
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 570
  • Location: Ottawa, Canada
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2022, 07:52:39 AM »
Why are your cable ties brittle? They are dried out. I kid you not. Because nylon is hydroscopic, manufacturers typically add 2.5% (by weight) water to the packaging to humidify newly made cable ties.
If you have an open package in the great white north during winter heating season, your ties are going to dry out and become brittle. But adding water also decreases the tensile strength of nylon. So you don't want to soak 'em in a bucket.

Solution: Sprinkle a little water* on your cable ties, then seal them in a closed  Ziplock bag for a day. They will be much less brittle.
 And always store your cable ties in a sealed bag.

*Luckily for you:  "Bernie's Special Zip Tie Humidifier Water " (100% H2O!) is now available for only $12.99 a glass, limited time only.  Come to my house (meet me at the kitchen faucet) for pickup.
But seriously, humidify your cable ties.


 




Offline Guzzistajohn

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 12222
  • Location: Missouri Ozarks
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2022, 08:17:45 AM »
This is obviously a plot orchestrated by some alien entity in an attempt to overthrow earthlings overly obsessed by securely fastened wires and cables. OR, you're using cheap ass wire ties that have sat on a shelf too long  :laugh:
ебать Россию!   Not anti social-pro solitude

Online SIR REAL ED

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1830
  • uh.... it's personal....
  • Location: Forest, VA
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2022, 08:56:22 AM »
very interesting thread.  thanks.
"If reading shite on the internet will trigger your head exploding, please wrap your head in Gorilla tape before logging on.  Thanks!!!"

2019 Beta EVO 250
1999 Suzuki DR 650 w/790cc kit
1994, 2001, & 2002 MZ Skorpions
1992 YAMAHA TDM850

Online Zenermaniac

  • Hatchling
  • **
  • Posts: 173
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2022, 09:02:06 AM »
Panduit is the brand we used in the telephony industry. The heavier ones you could probably tow a car with.

Online Vagrant

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1928
  • Location: Gainesville, Ga or Green Valley Az.
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2022, 10:23:54 AM »
Home depot has bags of 500 in the electrical dept. for about $20. I've used these for years with good luck. In your case I'd put them in a fresh zip lock bag with a dose of armor all sprayed on them. Moisture content and curing time with specific amounts of water are critical with all plastics. 
HE IS FREE WHO LIVES AS HE CHOOSES
2016 V7II, 2017 V7-III Blue special, 2022 V85 the fast red one! 2016 650 Versys
L-196, L-197

Offline 80CX100

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1421
  • Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2022, 11:59:07 AM »
I'm not sure what type of chains/tires you're struggling with,but from experience fighting with tire chains on a big old 80 HP Landini tractor,I know your pain.

What almost completely solved my chain issues on that tractor, was biting the bullet and buying a bunch of cheap rubber bungee cords of varying lengths and fastening them on the outside chain links, ie from side to side,top to bottom like spokes on a wheel,but anchored at varying spots to even out the tension all around your chains.

I "think" the key to success was to have them fastened with something that had a bit of give,but still held securely as the tires/chains flexed and moved.

As you're discovering, trying to fasten them securely with no allowance for movement, is an exercise in frustration,btdt
2008 California Vintage
2003 V11 Lemans
2007 Griso 1100
1979 G5 & 1980 Lemans CX100
2010 Suzuki DR650 & 1978 SR500

In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Online John A

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4572
  • No way to slow down...
  • Location: Hager city ,western WI
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2022, 12:29:29 PM »
Why are your cable ties brittle? They are dried out. I kid you not. Because nylon is hydroscopic, manufacturers typically add 2.5% (by weight) water to the packaging to humidify newly made cable ties.
If you have an open package in the great white north during winter heating season, your ties are going to dry out and become brittle. But adding water also decreases the tensile strength of nylon. So you don't want to soak 'em in a bucket.

Solution: Sprinkle a little water* on your cable ties, then seal them in a closed  Ziplock bag for a day. They will be much less brittle.
 And always store your cable ties in a sealed bag.






Thatís interesting, I had learned to keep my weed eater string hydrated and have been trying to hydrate my bigassed ty wraps but so far Iíve not had much success although I do have some out in the shop being treated now.
*Luckily for you:  "Bernie's Special Zip Tie Humidifier Water " (100% H2O!) is now available for only $12.99 a glass, limited time only.  Come to my house (meet me at the kitchen faucet) for pickup.
But seriously, humidify your cable ties.



Do you ship that water? I was thinking if it was dehydrated water it would be easier and cheaper to ship as long as it isnít that exotic heavy water all the kids want these daysÖ.
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
99 Bassa, sidecar
02 Stone
84 V65C
15 F3S Spyder

Online John A

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4572
  • No way to slow down...
  • Location: Hager city ,western WI
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2022, 01:00:30 PM »
I'm not sure what type of chains/tires you're struggling with,but from experience fighting with tire chains on a big old 80 HP Landini tractor,I know your pain.

What almost completely solved my chain issues on that tractor, was biting the bullet and buying a bunch of cheap rubber bungee cords of varying lengths and fastening them on the outside chain links, ie from side to side,top to bottom like spokes on a wheel,but anchored at varying spots to even out the tension all around your chains.

I "think" the key to success was to have them fastened with something that had a bit of give,but still held securely as the tires/chains flexed and moved.



Iíve got chains on both my tractors, they wonít move much without them. Bungee cords keep them snug alright. I once worked in a large truck shop in Bellingham,Wa. In the fall we would start building, repairing and fitting all the tractors and trailers with chain sets. Then we made or repaired hangers for the chain sets. It was imperative that we fit the chains because if they didnít fit when the driver went to put them on in the chain up area before crossing the passes, that driver would be apt to get a big piece of my hide. You canít use bungee cords on an over the road tractors so I got a lot of practice making chain sets that fit well. Itís a lot of welding on a chain set that the links on the cross pieces  are worn flat so I repaired them for my big tractor, actually a small Mitsubishi built for and badged as a 354 International. Itís got a snow blower mounted. My loader tractor, a small sears with an onan is chained up but itís dead with one cylinder having no compression. Itís buried in the big shed until spring, I ran out of room in the shop because I have a V65C in there for some work and with all the snow, things will stay where they are . But I digress, I was doing well with the wheelchair chains until I discovered all the zip ties in the free world have been compromised.
As you're discovering, trying to fasten them securely with no allowance for movement, is an exercise in frustration,btdt
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
99 Bassa, sidecar
02 Stone
84 V65C
15 F3S Spyder

Offline aklawok

  • Gosling
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
  • Location: Nome Alaska USA
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2022, 07:01:16 PM »
 Most zip ties are Chinese and not of constant quality. For extreme cold or critical use I get the 3M branded ones, cost .25 each but worth it t in the end. Need to get them from an electrical supply or similar store.
its not the end of the world...but you can see it from here!
2007 california vintage

Offline Karkaliev

  • New Egg
  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Location: Las Vegas
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2022, 07:59:34 PM »

Online John A

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4572
  • No way to slow down...
  • Location: Hager city ,western WI
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2022, 08:28:21 PM »











Bernie B was right of course, the batch I rehydrated yesterday worked like normal. Now I can move on to the snowboards  I will mount under the footpads. I couldn't tell what pics I posted here from this fone but I think I got the right ones. Thanks everyone
« Last Edit: December 26, 2022, 08:32:25 PM by John A »
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
99 Bassa, sidecar
02 Stone
84 V65C
15 F3S Spyder

Online PeteS

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3141
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2022, 08:38:42 PM »
Panduit is the brand we used in the telephony industry. The heavier ones you could probably tow a car with.

This ^^^^^^^

Thats all we used at work and yes black is best for the reasons stated.
The asian ones from Harbor Freight are only slightly better than latex rubber bands and last about as long.

Pete
« Last Edit: December 26, 2022, 08:39:26 PM by PeteS »

Online John A

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4572
  • No way to slow down...
  • Location: Hager city ,western WI
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2022, 09:09:56 PM »
I've always used aviation industry ty raps. Can't remember one ever letting go.




Yep, Iíve not experienced such a high failure rate. I sure miss that aviation scrounge,  oops,I mean work order residueÖ :azn:
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
99 Bassa, sidecar
02 Stone
84 V65C
15 F3S Spyder

Online John A

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4572
  • No way to slow down...
  • Location: Hager city ,western WI
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2022, 09:11:21 PM »
Panduit is the brand we used in the telephony industry. The heavier ones you could probably tow a car with.





That sounds promising!
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
99 Bassa, sidecar
02 Stone
84 V65C
15 F3S Spyder

Offline normzone

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3011
  • '72 Eldo - 1980 to 1990 - '99 Bassa 2014 - ?
  • Location: San Diego CA
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2022, 11:02:48 PM »
Yep, Iíve not experienced such a high failure rate. I sure miss that aviation scrounge,  oops,I mean work order residueÖ

Oh yeah, got to keep that runway safe.

All of the above, and plastic is made from oil, and is forever tempted to find it's way back ...
That's the combustion chamber of the turbo shaft. It is supposed to be on fire. You just don't usually see it but the case and fairing fell off.

Offline berniebee

  • 2020 Board Donor
  • Gaggle Mentor
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 570
  • Location: Ottawa, Canada
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2022, 05:13:36 AM »


Do you ship that water? I was thinking if it was dehydrated water it would be easier and cheaper to ship as long as it isnít that exotic heavy water all the kids want these daysÖ.

"dehydrated water"  :grin:

Offline Texas Turnip

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 2597
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2022, 06:37:35 AM »
John,
Surprised you didn't use binder twine, Guzzi content. :wink:

Tex

Offline Wayne Orwig

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 13813
    • Hog Mountain weather
  • Location: Hog Mountain
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2022, 08:03:31 AM »
When I was flying RC planes, we would occasionally drop our nylon propellers in a pan of boiling water and let the water cool with them in it. If you didn't, they would be brittle and break easily.
And of course sunlight/UV rots them, so get black only.
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

Online John A

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4572
  • No way to slow down...
  • Location: Hager city ,western WI
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2022, 01:12:33 PM »
John,
Surprised you didn't use binder twine, Guzzi content. :wink:

Tex





All my binder twine is holding my Guzziís together  :huh:
John
MGNOC L-471
It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled-Mark Twain
99 Bassa, sidecar
02 Stone
84 V65C
15 F3S Spyder

Offline LowRyter

  • Gaggle Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 16508
  • Location: Edmond OK
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2022, 04:23:42 PM »
Thanks for the head's up.  Since zip ties are cheap, I should probably replace critical ones every few years?   I usually keep a stash in my tankbag when I travel.   :thumb:
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Offline guzziart

  • Gaggle Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 708
  • Location: Northeast Ohio
Re: Ty wrap brittleness
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2023, 01:45:23 PM »
I've always had excellent performance & longevity from Thomas & Betts Ty-Rap brand and Panduit brand nylon ties.  The packages I bought specify UV and weather resistant, UL, CE & CSA rated.  HF = Phooey.

Art
'72 Eldo, '72 CL350, '81 CB125s, '87 LMIVSE, '91 CT70, '03 V11 Lemans, '08 Wing & '12 Wee Strom

***Wildguzzi Official Logo High Quality 5 Color Window Decals Back In Stock***
Shipping in USA Only. Awesome quality. Back by popular demand. All proceeds go back into the forum.
http://www.wildguzzi.com/Products/products.htm
Advertise Here
 


Harper's Moto Guzzi : Go Ride, Break Parts, Call me!
Harper's Moto Guzzi. Where we still answer the phone, use the highest quality parts, and also do Transmission, rear drive, and carb rebuilds fast. Call us at 816.697.3411 and get your problems resolved.
http://www.harpermoto.com
Advertise Here