Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: lazlokovacs on August 01, 2021, 03:26:55 PM

Title: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: lazlokovacs on August 01, 2021, 03:26:55 PM
brain/memory vs step by step route guidance

you'd be amazed at how good the human brain is at learning and memorising routes if you just give it a try.

its also a use it or lose it situation (a lot of research out there on passive interaction v active problem solving for keeping the brain healthy)

I rode out to a megalithic stone circle with my buddy the other day. I took him to the middle of it but he was sure that it was a little further north because that was where the marker was on google maps. So while he was staring at his phone in the middle of the thing he was looking for, he was sure the thing was somewhere else. I was speechless.

He also uses a satnav and anytime we decide to go somewhere, he has to plug it into the device otherwise he's just lost. He's always surprised when I just take us there from memory.

And... anytime I've tried to use a navigation system I've felt that my visual attention to the road is impaired by every single glance at the screen. And I've definitely ridden unsafely at times, trying to get the thing to recalculate or whatever while on the road.

Also, these days, anytime I ask another biker for direction to somewhere in a city, or ask a question like are we heading north if we carry on this road? They just look at me like I'm nuts, or like how the f should they know???

And this goes for couriers and delivery guys who are spending every day riding around that particular city.

I dunno, is it just me?

I seem to have no problem looking at a map and memorising a route, the advantage being that over time I build up a field of knowledge....

Do we need tech to do everything for us?

isn't being on a motorcycle a great moment to be free of screens??

Gaaaaaa rant over, forgive me

interested in the range of opinions.

 :whip2:

 
:thumb:

 
ride safe
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: elvisboy77 on August 01, 2021, 03:31:12 PM
It is optional, but helpful to find things when you are in an unfamiliar area. Unlike maps it is generally up to date and has gas stations and the like noted.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Perazzimx14 on August 01, 2021, 03:36:47 PM
I have friend that can look at a map and remember a weeks worth of routes. I cannot remember to the end of the driveway. I realized it the other week that while I suck at directions and buddies are great at them they rely on me for stuff they suck at like mechanical stuffs. So it works out. I fix their stuff they give me directions.

We cannot all be good at everything.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Guzzished on August 01, 2021, 03:41:43 PM
I'm with you laslokovacs, if ever that solar storm thingy knocks out the satalites the only people who can find their way to the toilet and back will be us Luddites. :thumb: :boozing:
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Iron Cross Junction on August 01, 2021, 03:43:10 PM

It is optional, but helpful to find things when you are in an unfamiliar area. Unlike maps it is generally up to date and has gas stations and the like noted.

Yup.

I have friend that can look at a map and remember a weeks worth of routes. I cannot remember to the end of the driveway.

****

That is really funny.  :laugh:

Bill
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Perazzimx14 on August 01, 2021, 03:55:51 PM
Yup.

That is really funny.  :laugh:

Bill

I've come to terms with it and have decided not to fight it. Anyone wanna go on a ride? Let me know, I'll plan it and we'll show up somewhere.

I can remember roads just horrible with route numbers or street names. I have lived in the same aera for 46 years and could not tell you what roads/streets to take to get in town.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Shorty on August 01, 2021, 04:11:20 PM
I don't go far enough on 2 wheels to get lost. I use a portable GPS in the 4 wheeler when traveling. I have the speech set to sound like a British woman, and I get all happy when she tells me to "Take the Motorway."   :grin:   :wink:
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Iron Cross Junction on August 01, 2021, 04:13:27 PM
I was not making fun of you, but being sympathetic!

I am a bit better in that regard, but, in some ways, worse, as I can "almost" remember a route ... but forget one pivotal step in the middle.  My internal "recalculating" doesn't even know what happened for miles.   :rolleyes:

Bill
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Perazzimx14 on August 01, 2021, 04:19:06 PM
I was not making fun of you, but being sympathetic!

I am a bit better in that regard, but, in some ways, worse, as I can "almost" remember a route ... but forget one pivotal step in the middle.  My internal "recalculating" doesn't even know what happened for miles.   :rolleyes:

Bill

I didn't take it a poking fun or ribbing. I yam what I yam.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: bodine99 on August 01, 2021, 04:28:26 PM
I'm a still in the paper map mode. I do have a 15 year old Tom-Tom I bring on
longer out of state rides. When I get in
those where the fuk am I punch up the HELP!! screen  :thumb:


Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: PeteS on August 01, 2021, 04:30:23 PM
I put in a destination but don’t turn it on until I am almost there to get me through city streets. Also handy for finding motels at the end of the day. I have an old Garmin Zumo and the maps are 12 years old. Many times it will show me traveling off the road when an expressway replaced a two lane road. One time in the middle of Kansas I noticed the town names didn’t match the paper map. I was looking for a particular route and Kansas had changed the route numbers. I was traveling on a road about 40 miles north of where I expected. When the Zumo dies I will get a new one.

Pete
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: moto on August 01, 2021, 04:31:43 PM
Using a GPS narrows my attention to the selected route so much that I miss the bigger geographic context a map provides. I might as well be traveling through a tunnel. I hate that.

I do use a GPS sometimes on longer trips to find motels and local restaurants. It's good for specialized tasks but damaging and even dangerous as a constant crutch.

Moto
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: wavedog on August 01, 2021, 05:07:08 PM
I use paper, not as much as I used to as good paper maps are hard to find, and electronic. One thing I have done for many many years is to use a dry erase marker (before those it was a grease pencil) and write my route on the inside of my windscreen. I have traveled a few times across the country like that. Just erase as I go. It doesn't allow the flexibility in routing as the electronic devices do, but what the hey. Someday when I grow up I hope to have a good moto gps with directions blue toothed to my helmet.

  Back when I used to navigate submarines they gave me a globe and a grease pencil and said just keep it the blue, son.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Wayne Orwig on August 01, 2021, 05:11:55 PM
I use a GPS for ROUTING occasionally when I need to get from A to B as efficiently as I can.

Usually though, when I am out exploring, I use the GPS just as a 'moving map'. I occasionally glance at it and often see things that I would have never known about using a paper map or using routing. Just the other day I was riding along and on my GPS screen I noticed what looked like a little runway on the other side of the mountains near where I was. So off I go and I found a small grass strip hidden in the mountains. If you sit at home and plan and memorize a route on a paper map, you probably never would have known that field was there.

And now I often use Kurviger. Tell it I want to go from A to B, and it looks at the roads, counts the number of turns, and literally routes you in the least direct route it can find.  :shocked: I have been finding a lot of new roads using the software. Roads I would never think about taking on a paper map, or even just exploring. It does put me on a lot of gravel, but I am OK with that. So far my only real complaint is that if I go for a ride, it tends to put me on the same twisty route on the return trip.

And there is the bonus of it recording where you have been. Go for a long ride and travel on a lot of new forest roads or such and wonder where you were, just pull up the recording.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: JJ on August 01, 2021, 05:13:52 PM
Remember before GPS...before cell phones...before the Internet...when you traveled and actually had to learn to read and navigate with a paper map?!? :laugh: :grin: :wink: :shocked: :rolleyes: :huh: :grin: :laugh:

We still keep the latest version of the ol' Rand McNally Road Altas in both our vehicles...although these days, we get the version with the LARGE PRINT!! :laugh: :grin: :wink: :laugh: :grin: :wink:
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Perazzimx14 on August 01, 2021, 05:19:09 PM
Remember before GPS...before cell phones...before the Internet...when you traveled and actually had to learn to read and navigate with a paper map?!? :laugh: :grin: :wink: :shocked: :rolleyes: :huh: :grin: :laugh:

We still keep the latest version of the ol' Rand McNally Road Altas in both our vehicles...although these days, we get the version with the LARGE PRINT!! :laugh: :grin: :wink: :laugh: :grin: :wink:

I can still do that. I just have to write out all the direction and mileage on a piece of paper and tape it to the tank. Sort of an analog GPS.

Not too many can look at a map and remember turn x turn directions.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: guzzisteve on August 01, 2021, 05:39:23 PM
I'm analog, still use paper maps. Have a flip phone. Home phone. Not interested in gadgets. Got a TV, stereo, laptop, that's it. I know where North is and can read street signs, so far N and so far W, same thing nav gizmo's say.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Guzzistajohn on August 01, 2021, 05:40:18 PM
They can be pretty handy in the right application.  :thumb:
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Moparnut72 on August 01, 2021, 05:55:22 PM
I find it interesting that men do best by following directions such as go 20 miles east then turn north for 2 miles right for three blocks and you will be there.  Women,  it would be go right on route 120 for 20 miles, turn left on Elm, go 2 miles, turn right on Oak for 3 miles to arrive at you destination. My wife is always saying how do you know where you are going? I just need to go northeast any which way, we will get there one way or another. Female and male brains work differently, if you haven't figured that out yet you have some rough ground ahead.   :evil:   :thewife:   :violent1:   :cool:
kk
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 01, 2021, 06:27:51 PM
I use a Beeline.  I purchased it from a board member.  It's a small pointer and mileage counter that I can attach to my handlebar and it connects to the Nav App on my phone. 

It came in handy when a group of 4 other guys I was riding with missed the turn to the road to get us back home.  Three of them rode right past me after I turned.  After quite a wait, they never showed up.  I went on back to the motel, then to dinner.  They caught up with me for dinner about an hour and half late.  I still don't understand why and they never really explained. 

I'd recommend Nav systems but like anything else, use it with common sense.   The group "Nav leader" was using a map and didn't really like my routes.  He took them on a lot of interstate when I was taking entertaining backroads.  So I guess they assumed I was taking some crazy route or something.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 01, 2021, 06:58:23 PM
It is another tool to use as opposed to a crutch.

When you truly understand how they work you can use them to go where you want instead of where they want.

Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Matt Story on August 01, 2021, 07:00:35 PM
I get the map nostalgia and how using GPS directions weakens our minds..  but I use them.  They have gotten me in trouble a couple times with erroneous directions at least once.  Another time google maps proposed an optional route (that we took) in rural WY that turned to gravel about 50 miles out.  This was partly our mistake for not scrutinizing the route more.  We ended up choosing to continue for what turned out to be 20 miles of gravel.  About 10 miles in, 6 inches of intermittent sand came into play.  I lost it on my r1150rt in this, falling over at low speed. Got my heal pinned under the saddle bag.  Had to get my brothers assistance to pick the bike off me.  In the end, only a very temporary injury to me and unnoticeable damage to the bike.  We had to trudge on for 10 more miles after recovery.

What gets me about the apps is they seem to auto rotate the map view to your direction of travel by default and it's a usually hard to turn off this function if its even possible.

Paired with the previous complaint, my other peeve is that the apps have an allergy to displaying a compass on screen.  If North were always at the top, then it wouldn't be necessary, but since the map turns with your direction, it's a pain to not have a compass.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: wavedog on August 01, 2021, 07:06:07 PM
I used to use a compass, sextant and chronometer to navigate but that’s hard to do while riding.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: dguzzi on August 01, 2021, 08:52:45 PM
   I prefer maps but my eyes, my eyes!   I was called the navigator with my riding friends; only so I could be blamed for every fricken problem there ever was!!   (looking back I wouldn't change a thing)
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Motormike on August 01, 2021, 09:05:43 PM
I love navigation systems.  It's Basecamp that I despise!  :angry:
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Tom H on August 01, 2021, 09:08:37 PM
I can remember roads just horrible with route numbers or street names. I have lived in the same aera for 46 years and could not tell you what roads/streets to take to get in town.

I agree. I can't remember the street names, but I can tell you turn left at the second street ect..

I Google map for places that I have not been. Then I write the streets/highway down and which way to turn. The little piece of paper goes in my top pocket. When I get to the last turn I can remember, pull the paper and then go on.

Tom
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Shorty on August 01, 2021, 09:15:06 PM
My little Enfield came with an extra gauge, called Tripper. When engaged, it becomes a turn by turn navigation system using only an arrow on the screen. Works with Google maps. I don't use it. When not engaged, it's a clock. THAT I can use. 

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fphoneradar.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F12%2FRoyal-Enfield-Meteor-350-Tripper-navigation-1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: OldMojo on August 01, 2021, 09:18:33 PM
I can concur with just about every opinion mentioned here (positive and negative),  because I feel like I've experienced them all at one point or another. With every attempt, it seems there's another setting I need to tweak, or some new compromise in functionality that makes the whole exercise less than ideal, but there's definitely some undeniable utility that makes me keep trying to make it work for me.

Back in the day, I would roam the countryside with a big ol' DeLorme in the top box. Can't be beat for getting a general overview of the area you're traveling through, but I could never memorize more than maybe 5 turns out. "Was that Washington Road or Worthington road?" Once my memory was exhausted I'd pull over, grab the map again and have another go, rinse and repeat.  It was cumbersome, but it worked. I've never been able to get the same general sense of overview on a GPS screen. Obviously it's a scale issue. Zooming in and out on the GPS just doesn't do it.

I suppose the best thing for me would be for the GPS to just list the next 2 or 3 crossroads and the distances. If I'm running an active route, perhaps have that one highlighted. That way I could just look for the signs like one would do when memorizing a map. The arrow and the distance countdown has screwed me up more than once. "Turn left in 500, 400, 300 feet" is very different on a rural road than it is on a 4 lane arterial. As such, I find myself monitoring that countdown rather than signposts and so forth.

For all I know, there may be an app out there that does that, but chances are that it'll be lacking in some other form  :sad:
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: john fish on August 02, 2021, 05:12:33 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/wJNBgt5/6-AEF54-EC-AF21-459-D-8404-37-DD45-C18529.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wJNBgt5)
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Zoom Zoom on August 02, 2021, 05:35:22 AM
It is simply a tool. Use it or not. Some tools are better than others like a wrench or socket on a nut rather than a pair of pliers.

Like Wayne, it is primarily a moving map. On many occasions, I have gone out and gotten lost. I can stay lost as long as I want, but when I'm ready to get un-lost I'll use the GPS to begin routing me toward home. It also tells me my speed and cardinal direction among other things. It contains my music, which I pipe into my helmet when I want.

Like others who have posted in this thread, it helps locate lodging or food or fuel and navigate unfamiliar streets in an unfamiliar city.

John Henry
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Gliderjohn on August 02, 2021, 06:49:02 AM
GPS is a great tool when needed. Like the first time we got off a plane at Raleigh/Durham at 11:30 pm. and had to find our motel
in a rental car. That is a very confusing area to drive in.
GliderJohn
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: 9fingers on August 02, 2021, 07:02:37 AM
I've got a Tom Tom Rider 550 and think it is fantastic. I used it on a trip to the Adirondacks, over to Vermont and down thru Massachusetts and it worked supremely. And it gives you the option of including dirt roads on your route.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Mayor_of_BBQ on August 02, 2021, 07:18:49 AM
I dont have any problem memorizing the route.. my issue is I get busy enjoying the ride or looking at the scenery and I miss my turns. It's like I have mentally blocked out the road signs.  I'm just cruising along and thinking 'dang this seems too far til the next turn' and then I'm not sure if I passed it yet or it is still to come.

I dont have any issues with day-to-day navigation, and if I drive somewhere once I can probably drive back 5 years later without checking the route or GPS.


One thing I do love about GPS (i use google maps on an iphone with a bar-mount phone holder) is this:

Where I live the roads are twistier than a bowl of spaghetti, steep, and HEAVILY forested. You can't see thru the turn, much less what the road looks like 50ft beyond.  When I have GPS cued up, I can steal glances to the screen and see the bright blue line following the next three turns..  *glance down* "ok after this sharp right there is a big sweeping left, short straight, then another decreasing radius right-hander that dumps back out to another tight left"  I don't have to stare at the screen, a quick look at the highlighted line sets me up for the next 2-3 turns.  This makes it MUCH easier to ride briskly in the mountains, esp on unfamiliar roads.

Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: blackcat on August 02, 2021, 07:38:59 AM
I just use the Bluetooth connection in my helmet, Google Maps,etc. and let it talk to me in a point to point destination. Less distracting
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: OldMojo on August 02, 2021, 07:41:00 AM

And now I often use Kurviger. Tell it I want to go from A to B, and it looks at the roads, counts the number of turns, and literally routes you in the least direct route it can find.  :shocked: I have been finding a lot of new roads using the software. Roads I would never think about taking on a paper map, or even just exploring. It does put me on a lot of gravel, but I am OK with that. So far my only real complaint is that if I go for a ride, it tends to put me on the same twisty route on the return trip.

And there is the bonus of it recording where you have been. Go for a long ride and travel on a lot of new forest roads or such and wonder where you were, just pull up the recording.

I was pretty sure I had tried this one and dismissed it for some reason, but after reading this post decided to have another look.

My first concern is to have the ability to load offline maps, since I use an old rugged phone with no cell service for this purpose. It would appear that it does, if you buy the Pro version.

No problem, I'll sacrifice a couple beers to do an in-depth trial with it. So I downloaded the free version, prepared to upgrade immediately. I go straight to the offline maps section, where I read that while it can navigate offline "Route creation requires an internet connection"   Really?? :shocked:

Sigh...  At least I was able to find this out before paying for it.

Just for giggles, I went on to give it my second test, which is a simple search. While connected to wi-fi mind you, it could not find:
-The monthly breakfast location
-The old monthly breakfast location
-The restaurant where I go to play trivia.

The newest of these places might be 10 years old. If it can't find someplace down the street, how can I have any confidence in it far from home?

I'm pretty sure this is because it uses Open Street Maps for its POI data, as do several other motorcycle oriented GPS apps. I understand that it may be possible to supplement POIs via other 3rd party databases. I would explore this but for the aforementioned offline fail.

My point is not necessarily to rag on this app. It's a great concept and I'm glad it's working for others. But it definitely illustrates the frustration on tap for people like myself who have slightly different use cases. The notion that a navigation system designed to get you out in the sticks would need a data connection seems antithetical.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Wayne Orwig on August 02, 2021, 07:58:11 AM
Just for giggles, I went on to give it my second test, which is a simple search. While connected to wi-fi mind you, it could not find:
-The monthly breakfast location
-The old monthly breakfast location
-The restaurant where I go to play trivia.

Yea, that map data they use has worthless POI data. I have never even attempted to look for a POI when looking for a twisty road, so it never really occurred to me that it is an issue.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LongRanger on August 02, 2021, 08:02:11 AM
Here in the western US, where the road IS the road, there’s really no need to rely on GPS to get you where you’re going. I rarely use mine except for whimsical glances to see what my elevation is. But this may change with my admittedly-slow level of technology adoption. When microwave ovens were first available for home use in the 60’s, I’d often wonder why anyone would need one…
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: JC85 on August 02, 2021, 09:09:20 AM
As others have said, I see it as a useful tool to have handy. When taking a trip, I'll usually plan the route ahead of time on google maps on my PC. Doing it that way, I can choose which roads to take, which stops to make, etc, then have it sent to my phone. I generally memorize most of the route and carry a map in the top of my tank bag, but it is nice to have the gps in my ear to remind me of turns or alert me to huge roadwork and the most efficient detours, etc.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Canuck750 on August 02, 2021, 10:51:44 AM
I don’t use a gps often but when I toured across Europe a couple years ago it was essential, especially in the former eastern block countries where my ignorance of places and directions would have made navigation of the back roads very difficult.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: guzziart on August 02, 2021, 12:00:03 PM
I dislike the factory nav on my '08 Wing.  The system locks you out once the bike is underway...pita sometimes to stop just in order to get it back to the home/route screen.  Plus, Honda/Garmin stopped updates & support in '14.  Recently I installed a zumo 396 on the wing and I'm satisfied with it.  I also have a 660 on my Wee Strom since 2012 and I'm happy with that too.

On another note, I hate Garmin Basecamp...too damn difficult for my simple mind as compared to Google My Maps, imho.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: twtex85 on August 02, 2021, 01:37:30 PM
I like having the GPS especially on long rides in unfamiliar territory.  It does also help in group riding scenario's if everyone has the route loaded in their GPS just in case they get separated or lose contact with the person in front of them.  However sometimes  there can be an overreliance on them as they do not necessarily tell you the road condition.  Sometimes they will lead you down cow paths or dirt roads if that is the shortest route. It all depends on how you have them setup when you build the route.   One of the issues I have with them is people get dependent on them and if you ask them to go on a ride the first thing they ask is if you have a route. :thewife:  Whatever happened to the spontaneity of going out for a ride with only a destination and no planned routes on how to get there.
   
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: berniebee on August 02, 2021, 03:44:17 PM
In a past life I worked on the road and constantly had to find customers, airports, Fedex locations, restaurants and hotels, etc with a map. I  was pretty good at it.  But no matter how many tricks you learn, (Like even numbered addresses are commonly on the north side and west side of streets and even numbered highways are typically east west.) maps go out of date and occasionally, are just plain wrong. 

 GPS has a couple of of other distinct advantages:

- At night, it's a lot harder to read a street sign in time to make a turn and fuhgettabout looking for an address number from a moving car in the dark. GPS has made navigating after sunset far less stressful. (Though in my neck of the woods, GPS still can't reliably get you to the front door of a house in suburbia, only within three or four houses.)
-If there's a delay or road closure, Google maps will tell you or even reroute you - truly an amazing feature.

On a road trip, I still like to "know" where I am. But on the other hand sometimes in a big city highway interchange or a large airport you are just following signs through a maze without a clue where the heck you are. Again, advantage GPS should your vehicle break down.

Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Shorty on August 02, 2021, 05:13:13 PM
The reason why you don't use that function is obvious .... :laugh:

 The Sultan

Apparently not to me.  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Iron Cross Junction on August 02, 2021, 07:27:20 PM
I've got a Tom Tom Rider 550 and think it is fantastic. I used it on a trip to the Adirondacks, over to Vermont and down thru Massachusetts and it worked supremely. And it gives you the option of including dirt roads on your route.


Yes, I have one.  And, unless on Stornello, set the 550 to "avoid" highways and unpaved roads.  The TomTom software-mapping folks must come from Lapland and think that gravel is pavement. 

For example, last week, on the way back from Erie on my Griso, I found myself on 11+ miles of this:


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FGCpThx/0/b8fa3047/M/i-FGCpThx-M.jpg)


In fairness, when I saw “Frozen Toe Road” was coming up, I suppose I should have had an inkling.  It was a sphincter-fusing ride, with numerous softball-sized river rocks.  I didn’t drop it, but that was way more about the Griso's long wheelbase and luck than my skills. 

I felt better when a local posted in a Pennsylvania “tag” thread on ADVRiver that "I'm glad you made it over Frozen Toe without mishap! We're only a couple of miles south of Leeper and that road is kind of our go-to for testing new knobbies on the dual sports."

My Garmin Zumo 550 wasn’t better, and possibly worse.  Those same settings got me here while leading a group from Atlanta to a Virginia rally:


(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-jrFfNNp/0/96d395eb/M/i-jrFfNNp-M.jpg)

(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-d8r2Pxh/0/68bc3921/M/i-d8r2Pxh-M.jpg)


"No, Sir.  It doesn't look like a road.  Yes, Sir, I was stupid.”

The guy’s wife never put down the shotgun.

Yes, again, one has to be smarter than the GPS.  I wasn’t.

Bill


Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Solorider73 on August 02, 2021, 08:09:44 PM
A GPS is a tool that I use on most rides. It helps me find roads that I wouldn’t normally find when I’m out exploring.  With that said everyone should be the master of their technology.

Don’t be like the guys on the office.

https://youtu.be/DOW_kPzY_JY (https://youtu.be/DOW_kPzY_JY)
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 02, 2021, 08:53:27 PM
Meh , some of us like being surprised , all of this technology removes the mystery , what is over that hill or around that bend . Never had any trouble finding a place to eat , or a place to sleep . Hell , if we had GPS in 1968 I wouldn't have picked Cedar Vale as a destination .

 The Sultan

I disagree.  You still don't know what is over that hill, or around that bend.  You just know that if you go over that hill and around that bend you will eventually get to the destination you want to reach. 

Of course in Oklahoma you have very few curvy roads so I could see not needing GPS there.   Yesterday coming home for the Smoky Mountains to my home west of there I actually rode into the sunrise.  Some of those mountain roads have 360 degree turns to get you around the mountain topography. 

As the crow flies it is 200 miles between my house and Maggie Valley.  On the roads it is 315 miles.    Tishomingo, OK to Cedar Vale, KS is also 200 miles as the crow flies.  On the roads it is 229 miles. 

How I use the GPS to make my ride interesting is to put in my destination and still turn down whatever road I desire and let it recalculate so I still know how many miles or hours to my destination, or I make a custom route beforehand if I have time so I can visit historic places or other places of interest between where I am and my destination, or sometimes I look at the route it created, and through a via on the map in the middle of nowhere and see where I end up.  This has led me to take ferries across rivers and bridges that are 12 inches below the water (concrete fords)

For some people the technology is the mystery and many people do not like what they do not understand. 

I know I didn't like the idea of adaptive cruise control until I researched it further and finally bought a car with it.  Now I wonder why it took so long to come to the automotive world. 

Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 02, 2021, 10:13:03 PM
^^^You haven't ever been in my part of Oklahoma , or ridden the Talimena drive , which is a better motorbike toad than the dragon everyday of the week .

 The Sultan

I have ridden in southeast Oklahoma, and through the rest of Oklahoma.  I can also use Google Maps with terrain features turned on.  The dragon is a tourist road.  Too many other roads to ride in the Tennessee / North Carolina mountains, but the Dragon is one of the roads that must be ridden to get from east to west without traveling many miles north or south.  You could spend weeks in the mountains finding new exciting roads to explore. 

Talimena is one road, then go enjoy Arkansas. 
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 02, 2021, 10:59:24 PM
I agree. I can't remember the street names, but I can tell you turn left at the second street ect..

I Google map for places that I have not been. Then I write the streets/highway down and which way to turn. The little piece of paper goes in my top pocket. When I get to the last turn I can remember, pull the paper and then go on.

Tom

perfect for a Beeline
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 02, 2021, 11:00:33 PM
My little Enfield came with an extra gauge, called Tripper. When engaged, it becomes a turn by turn navigation system using only an arrow on the screen. Works with Google maps. I don't use it. When not engaged, it's a clock. THAT I can use. 

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fphoneradar.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F12%2FRoyal-Enfield-Meteor-350-Tripper-navigation-1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)

better than a Beeline
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 02, 2021, 11:04:35 PM
^^^You haven't ever been in my part of Oklahoma , or ridden the Talimena drive , which is a better motorbike toad than the dragon everyday of the week .

 The Sultan

....or around Tishomingo.    :wink:
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 02, 2021, 11:07:56 PM
I have ridden in southeast Oklahoma, and through the rest of Oklahoma.  I can also use Google Maps with terrain features turned on.  The dragon is a tourist road.  Too many other roads to ride in the Tennessee / North Carolina mountains, but the Dragon is one of the roads that must be ridden to get from east to west without traveling many miles north or south.  You could spend weeks in the mountains finding new exciting roads to explore. 

Talimena is one road, then go enjoy Arkansas.

I don't agree with Dusty, even about his, but you go out of your way to offend folks.  I don't know why you want to make a personal preference into a personal disagreement.   You do it often and persistently. 
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 03, 2021, 05:31:38 AM
I don't agree with Dusty, even about his, but you go out of your way to offend folks.  I don't know why you want to make a personal preference into a personal disagreement.   You do it often and persistently.

Being offended is a personal chose I'm told.  I didn't know that pointing out why some people knock down technology to hide their fear of it would be offensive.  Should I be offended because I use said technology that is being bashed?  So much negatively that many thrive on.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Iron Cross Junction on August 03, 2021, 06:06:41 AM

^^^^^^^

I can be as easily offended as the next snowflake  :grin:, but I have not noticed any particular "disagreeableness" on the part of TWA.   :boxing:

OTOH, his praise for adaptive cruise control is absolutely nuts; ACC is, IMO, the devil's work.   :evil:

So, maybe we can drift this thread over to discussing the excessive technology in new cars. 

We recently bought a new Honda Fit. One of the reasons -- aside from its 2009 stablemate having 256K miles on its odo -- was that one can turn off almost every one of the "assists."  We have a friend with one of the new big Subs.  He's stuck with everything.  Now, before I have to plead guilty to first-degree ludditeness, be aware that I leave most of those functions on, but ACC is maddening. 

If no one bites on this, I'll just sulk.  Kathi says it's one of my talents.  :azn:

Bill
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 03, 2021, 08:51:04 AM
Being offended is a personal chose I'm told.  I didn't know that pointing out why some people knock down technology to hide their fear of it would be offensive.  Should I be offended because I use said technology that is being bashed?  So much negatively that many thrive on.

I'm not playing.  Go bait another hook.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 03, 2021, 08:54:42 AM
^^^^^^^

I can be as easily offended as the next snowflake  :grin:, but I have not noticed any particular "disagreeableness" on the part of TWA.   :boxing:

OTOH, his praise for adaptive cruise control is absolutely nuts; ACC is, IMO, the devil's work.   :evil:

So, maybe we can drift this thread over to discussing the excessive technology in new cars. 

We recently bought a new Honda Fit. One of the reasons -- aside from its 2009 stablemate having 256K miles on its odo -- was that one can turn off almost every one of the "assists."  We have a friend with one of the new big Subs.  He's stuck with everything.  Now, before I have to plead guilty to first-degree ludditeness, be aware that I leave most of those functions on, but ACC is maddening. 

If no one bites on this, I'll just sulk.  Kathi says it's one of my talents.  :azn:

Bill

I haven’t shown my wife where the one button to turn off all the driver aides is located on the new Mazda. I drove the car this morning and turned on the cruise a 10 above the speed limit on a two lane road. The guy in front of me varied his speed and the Mazda adjusted without me having to do anything but steer.  It even brought the car to a full stop and held the brake until the guy started moving again and went back up to speed. Definitely reduces driver fatigue.

The blind spot monitoring and lane assist as well a pedestrian alert should keep us safer as we age and have more difficulty with blind spot head checks.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 03, 2021, 08:55:48 AM
I'm not playing.  Go bait another hook.

Good choice.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 03, 2021, 12:58:11 PM
Interesting analysis , except it is incorrect . First , who is bashing the technology ? Second , not needing something doesn't indicate a fear of it , only that some of us prefer a more pure experience , call it a lack of need . Some of us rarely if ever visit a large city where this high zoot tech might actually be useful , out in open country a compass is about all most of us really need , right ? Maybe simple is better , or maybe I always know the compass points . We're riding motorbikes , not attempting to locate the moon from the seat , although I have read that after the first visit the pilots flying the Apollo vehicles had a pretty good idea where it is and how to find it .

 See , anything that distracts from the pure experience is just that , a distraction , although it was kinda cool to have a certain Triumph triple verify by his GPS that we had truly broken the tonne on a rural highway in SE Oklahoma , on one of those roads you found so uninteresting , of course i was pretty sure we had anyway .

 Have a nice day

 The Sultan

Something is only a distraction if you let it distract you.  Speedometers can be a distraction alleviated by having electronic cruise control.  No need to continuously check your speed. 

So, I am guessing you only ride naked bikes with very little instrumentation and ride without a helmet so you can truly experience riding without distractions. 

Having to constantly check for street signs, or looking at the compass, or the position of the sun and the time can be a distraction alleviated by having a GPS device. 

What else do you have oh Sultan.   
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Kev m on August 03, 2021, 01:35:35 PM
Wow, uh, ok, maybe I should just leave without posting (but where would the fun be in that).

* I don't get the luddite hate of the tech thing even though I DO get the fun of figuring it out without the tech and getting lost and being surprised.

* I don't believe some of you who say you memorize the route. I mean, I DO believe you if you only go 50 miles on roads you already know. I don't believe you if you were doing what I was doing last week - 200-250 miles of backroads, three or four handwritten route cards of turns with street names or route numbers and directions and sometimes mileage between points.

* I don't have a permanent mount/install for a GPS on any of my bikes, but my concession was that I did get a handlebar bag with a phone display pocket on top. In the year or so I've been using it now I'm starting to move away from my route cards. Damn it can be handy. And for those who say they like to be surprised, you can just select the right preferences on the route or better yet, ignore it for a little while and take other turns, then you'll be surprised when it routes you back toward the desired destination. Easy-Peasy.

I will say that The Google tried to screw me two separate days last week. I used it to help create a route and then wrote out route cards using the "steps" feature (which summarizes turns/road names/distances). Then two separate days Jenn and I found ourselves saying "wait, that road never showed up" and we wound up pulling over to check the route.

One time was genuinely hilarious as The Goodle had literally left 40-50 MILES of directions off the route telling us to follow Bla bla bla road 3.9 miles and then turn onto Bla Bla Bla road. After it didn't show in 4-5 miles we pulled over and checked the map view. The road just wasn't there. So we skipped ahead in the route cards, looked at the roads on it further down the line, and plotted a way to rejoin the route cards. About 50 miles later VIOLA we FOUND the missing road (by accident as we were heading for the next set of roads on the original route). The Google had literally just left out how to get from A to B. Oh well, see we used the tech, we were surprised, we plotted our way out - all good.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Guzzistajohn on August 03, 2021, 03:39:01 PM
a certain Triumph triple verify by his GPS that we had truly broken the tonne on a rural highway in SE Oklahoma , on one of those roads you found so uninteresting , of course i was pretty sure we had anyway .  :evil: :evil: :evil: :thumb:

I like my GPS, use one dang near every day for work. I can set my destination, add 1/2 an hour, call the client with an ETA and still be there my typical 5 minutes early.

I have "hideaways" marked all over swMo & nw Ar saved and I travel the backroads from spot to spot using the GPS to go the shortest distance. I've found some really remote backroads I would have never seen. Like I said before, depends on the application.

Tim and I were headed to Deal's Gap, when we got there he asked "how did you get here without looking at a map?" he didn't know I was cheating  :grin:
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 03, 2021, 06:21:44 PM
What else do I have , oh almost a million miles on street bikes W/O any electronic assistance .

 Here is reality , some folks are more interested in Gadgets than they are in just the experience , and there is nothing wrong with that . I thoroughly enjoy having a simple flip phone that allows me to stay in contact with dozens of people and understand that said phone is a direct result of technology , that doesn't indicate a need to have some device that removes all of the wonder of life . Some of us simply prefer a less cluttered existence , don't want or need multiple motorbikes , the latest in technical advances . Call it a distillation of needs , a way to live that isn't reliant on stuff .

 As for my preference in equipment on a motorbike , well , a simple touring device suffices , the Aerofoil keeps the bugs and rain off of me , the panniers carry stuff , the disc brakes mean stopping distances are short , the electronic carburetors and ignition systems simplify my life in practical terms , no fiddling with points or non-electronic carburetors . The tubeless wheels do the same , right ? Now there are some who argue that even the Aerofoil complicates their relationship with the riding experience , they can't see the front wheel , or feel the wind , and that is just fine by me , their experience is theirs to have and enjoy , I certainly put a lot of miles on unfaired motorbikes , and at times sans helmet , still do occasionally ride W/O a bash hat , shocking isn't it ? The experience of doing so takes me back , reminds me of what is so wonderful about these two wheeled devices that is so addictive , just a rider and a motorbike , once again a distillation of life unencumbered by extraneous influences .

 The Sultan

Good post. :thumb:
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Ncdan on August 03, 2021, 06:43:05 PM
I must say that you gentleman are truly being gentleman on this one to the point I actually think it’s safe for me to jump in.
I must agree with the absence of Technology on any of my STUFF because I am to much of a simpleton to work all but the most basic technological stuff.  If it wasn’t for my tech savvy wife I’d still be with SoCv with the flip phone🤔😂👍
Continue gentleman, darn good debate 👍

Dan
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 03, 2021, 06:58:30 PM
I like my Beeline; I've had good luck with my GPS/Phone/Nav and have replaced my tankbag riding notes and maps.  (I do keep them tucked away).

Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 03, 2021, 08:31:35 PM
I'm really kinda hoping to lure TWA out to Cedar Vale next May  :thumb:

 The Sultan

March - June is my heaviest work travel time.  But, the next time I have to go west for work, I would like to ride southeast OK.  The last time it was a detour from beelining down 54 on my way home, so didn't get to explore much. 
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: leroysch on August 03, 2021, 09:08:20 PM
Imagining/planning/plotting a road trip using PC based mapping software to transfer to my GPS is road trip foreplay. Executing it is the.......

(https://i.ibb.co/WsPrky8/100-0448.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WsPrky8)

the solitary reaper analysis (https://poetandpoem.com/analysis-of-the-solitary-reaper)
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 03, 2021, 10:41:56 PM
https://youtu.be/6fVaP6dM1fs
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: leroysch on August 04, 2021, 07:13:52 PM
https://youtu.be/6fVaP6dM1fs

(https://i.ibb.co/CztS9Jf/pot.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CztS9Jf)

 :evil: :evil: :evil:
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Tom on August 07, 2021, 07:35:00 PM
I look at a map.  There are places in the American outback that cell phones, nav systems and credit cards don't work.   :boozing:
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Kev m on August 07, 2021, 10:19:10 PM
Woah, I'm suddenly even much more confused than usual...
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Tom H on August 08, 2021, 12:35:12 AM
I am still a notes guy. But..I do use my phone as a GPS speedometer to be certain of my speed.

Why am I still a notes guy you may ask when I'm riding along with my phone on GPS speed. Because I can not clearly see the Google map.

Maybe it's my phone in the light or my sunglasses, I just can not quickly read the screen while watching out for traffic.

I have never used one of the Tom Tom or Garmin type units. Maybe their screens would be easier to see in normal day light conditions. I can clearly see boating use depth finders and mapping displays with the same sunglasses on a boat. With my phone, I have a hard enough time looking at the screen in broad daylight with my other hand shading the screen.

OTOH: I do not mind using Google maps and keeping it open on my phone so it knows where I am. When I need to either refresh my memory or write a note while at a gas stop or the like, I look at it rather than a paper map.

Just my dos centavos,
Tom
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: jacksonracingcomau on August 08, 2021, 03:17:35 AM
A confirmed Luddite here, but I tried to like it, 2 Garmins that both died in action, then a number of apps on iphone.
Apart from the reliability thing, two things stand out
1/ you cannot see bigger picture ie detailed map of 50 mile range, as you zoom out you lose the back roads I ride on
2/ As others, glare in the sun, makes it really hard to read
Best setting I ever found was list of turns, the next one being at top with distance to, disappearing after you’ve made turn.
After that ,Scenic app, the easiest to make your own routes with, or make in another program and send to scenic for turn by turn

But rarely do I use now, Outside of cities, I don’t need it in Aus, if I ever get back to Europe, I’ll probably mount phone again for routes avoiding towns etc, especially over the mountains, little goat tracks are hard to find without

What I do carry and totally rely on is ipad mini in tank bag, have to stop to read like paper map. I use memory map, have the world offline, works everywhere except in tunnels.
Screen does not lose detail  as you zoom out (Configurable)
Sometimes I have my route on display, sometimes just a straight line to where I think I might get that day.
So I use it as a moving paper map, replaces drawers and draws of real paper maps, no contest.
Of course the big advantage over paper is that it shows where you actually are on the map.
For travellers with time I recommend, especially for those that the journey is the point, the destination almost irrelevant, often I never go where I first thought of, somewhere else magical appears.
For couriers , delivery drivers , holidaymakers in hurry to get somewhere, turn by turn is probably a no brainer, I never tried bluetooth speaker but for distraction/ sun glare etc it makes sense
The last point and have to say, the game changer, the ipad is also my library, always have a few books downloaded and when I get to wifi or connect to my phone I can use the net ; possibly like other old gits, even though my phone is theoretically a keyboard, my fingers and thumbs can’t accurately hit keys, ipad makes it doable.
So Luddite now invariably carries ipad, on aeroplanes, only the ipad, can read books, study maps on a thing that weighs nothing and use no space.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: centauro on August 08, 2021, 07:13:58 AM
The couple of times that I tried navigating with a Tom Tom device, it led me on a "Wild Goose Chase" (Guzzi content, LOL!), and ended somewhere completely away from my planned destination.

Since then, mapping the route on a phone or tablet has been much more accurate and helpful. But I still prefer to trust a good, up to date paper map and my wife doing the navigating part.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Ncdan on August 08, 2021, 07:43:29 AM
As Dirty Harry famously said “A man got to know his limitations”, My navigation skills are really poor. Also, the older I get the more I find that I really need to focus on the road and not trying to figure out where my next turn is.
I Very seldom lead in a group ride unless I’m very familiar with the area and the route I’m taking.
Lisa always preformed all the navigation when she was my riding partner but no longer rides. Therefore I do use the GPS on my phone, attached to my bars. I use ear phones so I can listen to my riding music and make the turns that Seri tells me to make and I always seem to get to my destination. 
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 08, 2021, 09:19:06 AM
Just a little more info on the Beeline.  It's a Nav system that works off the smart phone.  Program a route and the Beeline gives arrow pointers and mileage countdowns to critical turns.  Not maps that are hard to see.  It works like route notes with no chance of missing a turn due a missing highway sign (pretty common in my state). 

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-gear-and-products/beeline-navigation-review/

Just make sure you're phone is charged.  I carry a battery pack in my tankbag that works great for my phone, camera and bluetooth speaker.  And the arrow can be confusing on three way intersection on unmarked back roads, so you might make a turn around, but the arrow will tell you right away that you've made a wrong turn.

(https://images.spot.im/image/upload/q_70,fl_lossy,dpr_3,h_292,w_500,c_limit/v200/23530da3f9a1bce6a9422a624366fc87)

(https://park.shifting-gears.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Triumph-Beeline-Navigation-3-346x188.png)


(https://www.bennetts.co.uk/-/media/bikesocial/2020-may-images/bee-line-moto-navigation-sat-nav/beeline-moto-navigation-sat-nav-review_11.ashx?h=493&w=740&la=en&hash=890F076972C61DBE175C1DA7A5429A2D1EB2D9D0)

On my last trip to Arkansas, the route leader was using a map and went by a critical highway intersection.  Three riders went past me when I made the correct turn.  I waited for a while but they kept going.  We finally met at dinner but the were an hour and half late.

Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Kev m on August 08, 2021, 10:07:57 AM
Just a little more info on the Beeline.  It's a Nav system that works off the smart phone.  Program a route and the Beeline gives arrow pointers and mileage countdowns to critical turns.  Not maps that are hard to see.  It works like route notes with no chance of missing a turn due a missing highway sign (pretty common in my state). 

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-gear-and-products/beeline-navigation-review/

Just make sure you're phone is charged.  I carry a battery pack in my tankbag that works great for my phone, camera and bluetooth speaker.  And the arrow can be confusing on three way intersection on unmarked back roads, so you might make a turn around, but the arrow will tell you right away that you've made a wrong turn.

(https://images.spot.im/image/upload/q_70,fl_lossy,dpr_3,h_292,w_500,c_limit/v200/23530da3f9a1bce6a9422a624366fc87)

(https://park.shifting-gears.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Triumph-Beeline-Navigation-3-346x188.png)


(https://www.bennetts.co.uk/-/media/bikesocial/2020-may-images/bee-line-moto-navigation-sat-nav/beeline-moto-navigation-sat-nav-review_11.ashx?h=493&w=740&la=en&hash=890F076972C61DBE175C1DA7A5429A2D1EB2D9D0)

On my last trip to Arkansas, the route leader was using a map and went by a critical highway intersection.  Three riders went past me when I made the correct turn.  I waited for a while but they kept going.  We finally met at dinner but the were an hour and half late.

Woah I completely missed that.

That looks great

I think I'm gonna pick one of those up.

Thanks for posting that.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 08, 2021, 10:13:09 AM
Don't ever attempt using any fancy device to find Woolraoc , trust me on this , we were so far off in the boonies the locals sitting on their porches were pointing and laughing as we went by  :laugh:

 TS

My Beeline plotted the route from CV to Woolaroc but it went through the numbered highway (123) rather than the backroads from Pawhuska.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 08, 2021, 10:17:19 AM
Woah I completely missed that.

That looks great

I think I'm gonna pick one of those up.

Thanks for posting that.

I purchased it from one of the members here that got it from "go fund me" startup.  He never used it and sold it for cost.  The only glitch I've had is when the phone goes into battery save mode.  I had my phone adjusted for 70% power.  Just to be sure now, I carry one of those $30 battery packs with USB connect.  Very handy on the road. 

I think Triumph and RE use a version of it on some of their bike now.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: PJPR01 on August 08, 2021, 10:34:31 AM
Don't ever attempt using any fancy device to find Woolraoc , trust me on this , we were so far off in the boonies the locals sitting on their porches were pointing and laughing as we went by  :laugh:

 TS

1 missed route out of 13 years of usage…it was a fun diversion. Who knew the back door had been closed?  We wasted more time on V7 fuel and spark plug diagnosis issues if I recall correctly until my TomTom suggested the V7 be parked downhill…started right up
If I recall correctly! 

 :boozing: :boozing:
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Ncdan on August 08, 2021, 10:38:51 AM
I purchased it from one of the members here that got it from "go fund me" startup.  He never used it and sold it for cost.  The only glitch I've had is when the phone goes into battery save mode.  I had my phone adjusted for 70% power.  Just to be sure now, I carry one of those $30 battery packs with USB connect.  Very handy on the road. 

I think Triumph and RE use a version of it on some of their bike now.
So this device works in conjunction with an app you put on your phone?
You may have to explain this to me in the upmost simply terms, LR and thanks for sharing this with us👍
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: moto on August 08, 2021, 01:08:31 PM
From the reviews for the Beeline app in the Google Play Store it seems that one can use the app independently of the device and see how it works before making a financial commitment. This might be a good idea, considering a number of negative reviews of the system. However LowRiter's testimony means a lot too. It certainly seems like a promising device.

Moto
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: moto on August 08, 2021, 01:43:14 PM
Update: I just downloaded the app to my phone and confirmed that it works independently of the hardware. I plotted a route to Lansing, Minnesota [sic] Iowa!!, and then took a walk down the street and confirmed it was leading me on the way with the same arrow system seen on the device. But I don't see how to add waypoints or load info from other applications. I suppose this can be figured out. Anyway, you don't need to buy the device to test the software!

M.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 08, 2021, 01:55:26 PM
So this device works in conjunction with an app you put on your phone?
You may have to explain this to me in the upmost simply terms, LR and thanks for sharing this with us👍

Dan, Beeline has a Nav App that installs on my Smartphone. 

Supposedly, I can download or text a map to the phone as well.  Unfortunately, there is a special "map" digital format (GPX?) that I can't quite find to do that.  And I find all the digital map programs and Apps to difficult to tailor, certainly not as easy as using a magic marker on paper maps; OTOH, maps usually only show the marked highway and not the back roads.   

What I find the best way to make a custom map, is to build it from the start by waypoint to waypoint.  Typically the sections of road right after the turn you want to make or right after merging to the road you want to be on.  It gets frustrating altering a preexisting route with the final destination already entered.  I found this is true with Google Maps as well as Beeline and all the other demo Apps I've played around with.

When I was in Arkansas and riding back highways, it worked great.  There are many curvy roads there but not many alternatives when going to a specific place.  But again, sometimes I had to plot point by point until I entered my final destination.   It did work great when I was running out of fuel and needed to get to the closest town with gas.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 08, 2021, 01:57:13 PM
From the reviews for the Beeline app in the Google Play Store it seems that one can use the app independently of the device and see how it works before making a financial commitment. This might be a good idea, considering a number of negative reviews of the system. However LowRiter's testimony means a lot too. It certainly seems like a promising device.

Moto

I'm not aware many negatives.  I'd like to know. 
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Ncdan on August 08, 2021, 02:23:16 PM
Dan, Beeline has a Nav App that installs on my Smartphone. 

Supposedly, I can download or text a map to the phone as well.  Unfortunately, there is a special "map" digital format (GPX?) that I can't quite find to do that.  And I find all the digital map programs and Apps to difficult to tailor, certainly not as easy as using a magic marker on paper maps; OTOH, maps usually only show the marked highway and not the back roads.   

What I find the best way to make a custom map, is to build it from the start by waypoint to waypoint.  Typically the sections of road right after the turn you want to make or right after merging to the road you want to be on.  It gets frustrating altering a preexisting route with the final destination already entered.  I found this is true with Google Maps as well as Beeline and all the other demo Apps I've played around with.

When I was in Arkansas and riding back highways, it worked great.  There are many curvy roads there but not many alternatives when going to a specific place.  But again, sometimes I had to plot point by point until I entered my final destination.   It did work great when I was running out of fuel and needed to get to the closest town with gas.
Got it👍
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 08, 2021, 02:24:22 PM
Update: I just downloaded the app to my phone and confirmed that it works independently of the hardware. I plotted a route to Lansing, Minnesota [sic] and then took a walk down the street and confirmed it was leading me on the way with the same arrow system seen on the device. But I don't see how to add waypoints or load info from other applications. I suppose this can be figured out. Anyway, you don't need to buy the device to test the software!

M.

The way I did it was to enlarge the area on the map that I wanted to place a waypoint and point to it with my finger, then add another and another.  I think you can add perhaps 10 intermediate destinations. 

But, I find all of these map programs to be about the same: not too friendly to custom tailor a route.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Bisbee on August 08, 2021, 03:10:33 PM
I have the Garmin Zumo that Itchy Boots suggested. Have fiddled with it but in the end I just like paper maps.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 09, 2021, 06:21:01 PM
Moto, did my comments help?
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: moto on August 09, 2021, 06:42:58 PM
Moto, did my comments help?

Yes! Sorry not to have said so right away.

At least on my Android phone the technique is to tap on the blue line indicating the original route. Doing that creates a pin symbol that you can then drag off the route to establish a new waypoint. Works pretty well. I wonder if the underlying data is from Google.

I'm under doctor's orders not to do any riding right now, but in a couple of weeks or so I'll strap my phone to the handlebars and try the system for free. Maybe that will cause me to shell out $250 for the device.

You might like to read the comments on the Android store or elsewhere for yourself. It seems like many of them had to do with the accuracy of the data rather than a fundamental problem with the system.

Reading the documentation on the company site I was interested to see there are two modes of using the system during a trip. One requires a data or Wi-Fi connection, but the other does not and operates independently via GPS alone, including when it leads you back to an appropriate route if you miss a waypoint. At least as I understand it.

I'm eager to try it.

Moto
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 09, 2021, 07:51:56 PM
Yes! Sorry not to have said so right away.

At least on my Android phone the technique is to tap on the blue line indicating the original route. Doing that creates a pin symbol that you can then drag off the route to establish a new waypoint. Works pretty well. I wonder if the underlying data is from Google.

I'm under doctor's orders not to do any riding right now, but in a couple of weeks or so I'll strap my phone to the handlebars and try the system for free. Maybe that will cause me to shell out $250 for the device.

You might like to read the comments on the Android store or elsewhere for yourself. It seems like many of them had to do with the accuracy of the data rather than a fundamental problem with the system.

Reading the documentation on the company site I was interested to see there are two modes of using the system during a trip. One requires a data or Wi-Fi connection, but the other does not and operates independently via GPS alone, including when it leads you back to an appropriate route if you miss a waypoint. At least as I understand it.

I'm eager to try it.

Moto

My point is, don't do an "original route".  Do it one intersection or highway at a time until you get to the final destination.  It's dang near impossible to modify an original route.  I find it's true for Google Maps or any other App.  Now if you're satisfied with the original route, or on the road and just need to get where you're going, OK.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: moto on August 09, 2021, 08:20:34 PM
Yes, your method does work. But for some reason it takes a lot of tapping to establish the next waypoint when I try it. Maybe I can get the hang of it with practice.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 09, 2021, 09:04:57 PM
Yes, your method does work. But for some reason it takes a lot of tapping to establish the next waypoint when I try it. Maybe I can get the hang of it with practice.

Making a custom Route?  Probably not.  I find it a PIA. 

As I've said, none of these Nav Apps seem to make it very easy.  Beeline is no better or worse than Google Maps and all the others I've tried.  Not sure why we can't just make as it as simple as tracing a yellow marker on a map.

OTOH, if you just want to follow the easiest route, and don't get lost, just follow the recommended route.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: moto on August 09, 2021, 09:38:25 PM
Making a custom Route?  Probably not.  I find it a PIA. 

As I've said, none of these Nav Apps seem to make it very easy.  Beeline is no better or worse than Google Maps and all the others I've tried.  Not sure why we can't just make as it as simple as tracing a yellow marker on a map.

OTOH, if you just want to follow the easiest route, and don't get lost, just follow the recommended route.

I'm having some trouble understanding your meaning. For what it's worth I just mapped out a route over to Lansing, Iowa from Madison that is very much like a really enjoyable one I took three or four weeks ago. It didn't take long to lay it out. Since some of the roads are not really marked highways, I expect it will be really handy to have the arrow showing me which way to turn at the smaller intersections. A lot of the convenience factor probably depends upon the kind of terrain you plan to go through. This is a route through the Driftless Region of Wisconsin with lots of squigglies. (Not to be confused with twisties.)

Moto
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: LowRyter on August 09, 2021, 09:41:05 PM
I'm having some trouble understanding your meaning. For what it's worth I just mapped out a route over to Lansing, Iowa from Madison that is very much like a really enjoyable one I took three or four weeks ago. It didn't take long to lay it out. Since some of the roads are not really marked highways, I expect it will be really handy to have the arrow showing me which way to turn at the smaller intersectiona. A lot of the convenience factor probably depends upon the kind of terrain you plan to go through.

Moto

Glad it worked out.  You seem to have better luck with the App than me.  If you like the App, my guess is that you'll like the unit.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: Kiwi Dave on August 09, 2021, 09:44:51 PM
With all the guidance devices I've experienced, just ignore where it's pointing and go your own way.  The software realizes this after a while and conforms to your wishes.  The Beeline does a little dance first, which is always entertaining.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: moto on August 09, 2021, 10:47:33 PM
The Beeline does a little dance first, which is always entertaining.

Just like a real bee, huh? Perfect.
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: twowheeladdict on August 12, 2021, 03:36:01 PM
I look at a map.  There are places in the American outback that cell phones, nav systems and credit cards don't work.   :boozing:

Yep.  New York City and Chicago with those tall skyscrapers can block access to a satellite constellations, as well as a few deep ravines and very heavily forested areas.  Everyone should learn basic map skills just like everyone should learn to read an analog clock. 
Title: Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
Post by: yogidozer on August 12, 2021, 03:53:45 PM
Best times I've ever had was getting lost, finding places I never knew existed.
we lost Chuck?

(https://i.ibb.co/znC1gt0/c3-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/znC1gt0)

Naa, we'll find our way back....some day :angel:

(https://i.ibb.co/XsBj0bH/c1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XsBj0bH)