Author Topic: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?  (Read 1815 times)

Offline lazlokovacs

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brain/memory vs step by step route guidance

you'd be amazed at how good the human brain is at learning and memorising routes if you just give it a try.

its also a use it or lose it situation (a lot of research out there on passive interaction v active problem solving for keeping the brain healthy)

I rode out to a megalithic stone circle with my buddy the other day. I took him to the middle of it but he was sure that it was a little further north because that was where the marker was on google maps. So while he was staring at his phone in the middle of the thing he was looking for, he was sure the thing was somewhere else. I was speechless.

He also uses a satnav and anytime we decide to go somewhere, he has to plug it into the device otherwise he's just lost. He's always surprised when I just take us there from memory.

And... anytime I've tried to use a navigation system I've felt that my visual attention to the road is impaired by every single glance at the screen. And I've definitely ridden unsafely at times, trying to get the thing to recalculate or whatever while on the road.

Also, these days, anytime I ask another biker for direction to somewhere in a city, or ask a question like are we heading north if we carry on this road? They just look at me like I'm nuts, or like how the f should they know???

And this goes for couriers and delivery guys who are spending every day riding around that particular city.

I dunno, is it just me?

I seem to have no problem looking at a map and memorising a route, the advantage being that over time I build up a field of knowledge....

Do we need tech to do everything for us?

isn't being on a motorcycle a great moment to be free of screens??

Gaaaaaa rant over, forgive me

interested in the range of opinions.

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ride safe

Offline elvisboy77

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2021, 03:31:12 PM »
It is optional, but helpful to find things when you are in an unfamiliar area. Unlike maps it is generally up to date and has gas stations and the like noted.
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2021, 03:36:47 PM »
I have friend that can look at a map and remember a weeks worth of routes. I cannot remember to the end of the driveway. I realized it the other week that while I suck at directions and buddies are great at them they rely on me for stuff they suck at like mechanical stuffs. So it works out. I fix their stuff they give me directions.

We cannot all be good at everything.
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Offline Guzzished

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2021, 03:41:43 PM »
I'm with you laslokovacs, if ever that solar storm thingy knocks out the satalites the only people who can find their way to the toilet and back will be us Luddites. :thumb: :boozing:

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2021, 03:41:43 PM »

Offline Iron Cross Junction

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2021, 03:43:10 PM »

It is optional, but helpful to find things when you are in an unfamiliar area. Unlike maps it is generally up to date and has gas stations and the like noted.

Yup.

I have friend that can look at a map and remember a weeks worth of routes. I cannot remember to the end of the driveway.

****

That is really funny.  :laugh:

Bill
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2021, 03:55:51 PM »
Yup.

That is really funny.  :laugh:

Bill

I've come to terms with it and have decided not to fight it. Anyone wanna go on a ride? Let me know, I'll plan it and we'll show up somewhere.

I can remember roads just horrible with route numbers or street names. I have lived in the same aera for 46 years and could not tell you what roads/streets to take to get in town.
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Offline Shorty

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2021, 04:11:20 PM »
I don't go far enough on 2 wheels to get lost. I use a portable GPS in the 4 wheeler when traveling. I have the speech set to sound like a British woman, and I get all happy when she tells me to "Take the Motorway."   :grin:   :wink:


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Offline Iron Cross Junction

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2021, 04:13:27 PM »
I was not making fun of you, but being sympathetic!

I am a bit better in that regard, but, in some ways, worse, as I can "almost" remember a route ... but forget one pivotal step in the middle.  My internal "recalculating" doesn't even know what happened for miles.   :rolleyes:

Bill
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2021, 04:19:06 PM »
I was not making fun of you, but being sympathetic!

I am a bit better in that regard, but, in some ways, worse, as I can "almost" remember a route ... but forget one pivotal step in the middle.  My internal "recalculating" doesn't even know what happened for miles.   :rolleyes:

Bill

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Offline bodine99

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2021, 04:28:26 PM »
I'm a still in the paper map mode. I do have a 15 year old Tom-Tom I bring on
longer out of state rides. When I get in
those where the fuk am I punch up the HELP!! screen  :thumb:



Online PeteS

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2021, 04:30:23 PM »
I put in a destination but donít turn it on until I am almost there to get me through city streets. Also handy for finding motels at the end of the day. I have an old Garmin Zumo and the maps are 12 years old. Many times it will show me traveling off the road when an expressway replaced a two lane road. One time in the middle of Kansas I noticed the town names didnít match the paper map. I was looking for a particular route and Kansas had changed the route numbers. I was traveling on a road about 40 miles north of where I expected. When the Zumo dies I will get a new one.

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Offline moto

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2021, 04:31:43 PM »
Using a GPS narrows my attention to the selected route so much that I miss the bigger geographic context a map provides. I might as well be traveling through a tunnel. I hate that.

I do use a GPS sometimes on longer trips to find motels and local restaurants. It's good for specialized tasks but damaging and even dangerous as a constant crutch.

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Offline wavedog

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2021, 05:07:08 PM »
I use paper, not as much as I used to as good paper maps are hard to find, and electronic. One thing I have done for many many years is to use a dry erase marker (before those it was a grease pencil) and write my route on the inside of my windscreen. I have traveled a few times across the country like that. Just erase as I go. It doesn't allow the flexibility in routing as the electronic devices do, but what the hey. Someday when I grow up I hope to have a good moto gps with directions blue toothed to my helmet.

  Back when I used to navigate submarines they gave me a globe and a grease pencil and said just keep it the blue, son.

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2021, 05:11:55 PM »
I use a GPS for ROUTING occasionally when I need to get from A to B as efficiently as I can.

Usually though, when I am out exploring, I use the GPS just as a 'moving map'. I occasionally glance at it and often see things that I would have never known about using a paper map or using routing. Just the other day I was riding along and on my GPS screen I noticed what looked like a little runway on the other side of the mountains near where I was. So off I go and I found a small grass strip hidden in the mountains. If you sit at home and plan and memorize a route on a paper map, you probably never would have known that field was there.

And now I often use Kurviger. Tell it I want to go from A to B, and it looks at the roads, counts the number of turns, and literally routes you in the least direct route it can find.  :shocked: I have been finding a lot of new roads using the software. Roads I would never think about taking on a paper map, or even just exploring. It does put me on a lot of gravel, but I am OK with that. So far my only real complaint is that if I go for a ride, it tends to put me on the same twisty route on the return trip.

And there is the bonus of it recording where you have been. Go for a long ride and travel on a lot of new forest roads or such and wonder where you were, just pull up the recording.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 05:15:27 PM by Wayne Orwig »
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2021, 05:13:52 PM »
Remember before GPS...before cell phones...before the Internet...when you traveled and actually had to learn to read and navigate with a paper map?!? :laugh: :grin: :wink: :shocked: :rolleyes: :huh: :grin: :laugh:

We still keep the latest version of the ol' Rand McNally Road Altas in both our vehicles...although these days, we get the version with the LARGE PRINT!! :laugh: :grin: :wink: :laugh: :grin: :wink:
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 05:15:38 PM by JJ »
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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2021, 05:19:09 PM »
Remember before GPS...before cell phones...before the Internet...when you traveled and actually had to learn to read and navigate with a paper map?!? :laugh: :grin: :wink: :shocked: :rolleyes: :huh: :grin: :laugh:

We still keep the latest version of the ol' Rand McNally Road Altas in both our vehicles...although these days, we get the version with the LARGE PRINT!! :laugh: :grin: :wink: :laugh: :grin: :wink:

I can still do that. I just have to write out all the direction and mileage on a piece of paper and tape it to the tank. Sort of an analog GPS.

Not too many can look at a map and remember turn x turn directions.
It's the ones who've cracked that the light shines through!

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2021, 05:39:23 PM »
I'm analog, still use paper maps. Have a flip phone. Home phone. Not interested in gadgets. Got a TV, stereo, laptop, that's it. I know where North is and can read street signs, so far N and so far W, same thing nav gizmo's say.
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Online Guzzistajohn

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2021, 05:40:18 PM »
They can be pretty handy in the right application.  :thumb:
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Offline Moparnut72

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2021, 05:55:22 PM »
I find it interesting that men do best by following directions such as go 20 miles east then turn north for 2 miles right for three blocks and you will be there.  Women,  it would be go right on route 120 for 20 miles, turn left on Elm, go 2 miles, turn right on Oak for 3 miles to arrive at you destination. My wife is always saying how do you know where you are going? I just need to go northeast any which way, we will get there one way or another. Female and male brains work differently, if you haven't figured that out yet you have some rough ground ahead.   :evil:   :thewife:   :violent1:   :cool:
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Offline LowRyter

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2021, 06:27:51 PM »
I use a Beeline.  I purchased it from a board member.  It's a small pointer and mileage counter that I can attach to my handlebar and it connects to the Nav App on my phone. 

It came in handy when a group of 4 other guys I was riding with missed the turn to the road to get us back home.  Three of them rode right past me after I turned.  After quite a wait, they never showed up.  I went on back to the motel, then to dinner.  They caught up with me for dinner about an hour and half late.  I still don't understand why and they never really explained. 

I'd recommend Nav systems but like anything else, use it with common sense.   The group "Nav leader" was using a map and didn't really like my routes.  He took them on a lot of interstate when I was taking entertaining backroads.  So I guess they assumed I was taking some crazy route or something.
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Online twowheeladdict

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2021, 06:58:23 PM »
It is another tool to use as opposed to a crutch.

When you truly understand how they work you can use them to go where you want instead of where they want.

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Offline Matt Story

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2021, 07:00:35 PM »
I get the map nostalgia and how using GPS directions weakens our minds..  but I use them.  They have gotten me in trouble a couple times with erroneous directions at least once.  Another time google maps proposed an optional route (that we took) in rural WY that turned to gravel about 50 miles out.  This was partly our mistake for not scrutinizing the route more.  We ended up choosing to continue for what turned out to be 20 miles of gravel.  About 10 miles in, 6 inches of intermittent sand came into play.  I lost it on my r1150rt in this, falling over at low speed. Got my heal pinned under the saddle bag.  Had to get my brothers assistance to pick the bike off me.  In the end, only a very temporary injury to me and unnoticeable damage to the bike.  We had to trudge on for 10 more miles after recovery.

What gets me about the apps is they seem to auto rotate the map view to your direction of travel by default and it's a usually hard to turn off this function if its even possible.

Paired with the previous complaint, my other peeve is that the apps have an allergy to displaying a compass on screen.  If North were always at the top, then it wouldn't be necessary, but since the map turns with your direction, it's a pain to not have a compass.
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Offline wavedog

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2021, 07:06:07 PM »
I used to use a compass, sextant and chronometer to navigate but thatís hard to do while riding.

Offline dguzzi

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2021, 08:52:45 PM »
   I prefer maps but my eyes, my eyes!   I was called the navigator with my riding friends; only so I could be blamed for every fricken problem there ever was!!   (looking back I wouldn't change a thing)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 08:59:37 PM by dguzzi »
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Online Motormike

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2021, 09:05:43 PM »
I love navigation systems.  It's Basecamp that I despise!  :angry:

Offline Tom H

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2021, 09:08:37 PM »
I can remember roads just horrible with route numbers or street names. I have lived in the same aera for 46 years and could not tell you what roads/streets to take to get in town.

I agree. I can't remember the street names, but I can tell you turn left at the second street ect..

I Google map for places that I have not been. Then I write the streets/highway down and which way to turn. The little piece of paper goes in my top pocket. When I get to the last turn I can remember, pull the paper and then go on.

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Offline Shorty

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2021, 09:15:06 PM »
My little Enfield came with an extra gauge, called Tripper. When engaged, it becomes a turn by turn navigation system using only an arrow on the screen. Works with Google maps. I don't use it. When not engaged, it's a clock. THAT I can use. 



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Online OldMojo

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2021, 09:18:33 PM »
I can concur with just about every opinion mentioned here (positive and negative),  because I feel like I've experienced them all at one point or another. With every attempt, it seems there's another setting I need to tweak, or some new compromise in functionality that makes the whole exercise less than ideal, but there's definitely some undeniable utility that makes me keep trying to make it work for me.

Back in the day, I would roam the countryside with a big ol' DeLorme in the top box. Can't be beat for getting a general overview of the area you're traveling through, but I could never memorize more than maybe 5 turns out. "Was that Washington Road or Worthington road?" Once my memory was exhausted I'd pull over, grab the map again and have another go, rinse and repeat.  It was cumbersome, but it worked. I've never been able to get the same general sense of overview on a GPS screen. Obviously it's a scale issue. Zooming in and out on the GPS just doesn't do it.

I suppose the best thing for me would be for the GPS to just list the next 2 or 3 crossroads and the distances. If I'm running an active route, perhaps have that one highlighted. That way I could just look for the signs like one would do when memorizing a map. The arrow and the distance countdown has screwed me up more than once. "Turn left in 500, 400, 300 feet" is very different on a rural road than it is on a 4 lane arterial. As such, I find myself monitoring that countdown rather than signposts and so forth.

For all I know, there may be an app out there that does that, but chances are that it'll be lacking in some other form  :sad:
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Online john fish

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2021, 05:12:33 AM »


He lost the run of himself.

Online Zoom Zoom

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Re: i really dislike navigation systems etc rant... anyone with me?
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2021, 05:35:22 AM »
It is simply a tool. Use it or not. Some tools are better than others like a wrench or socket on a nut rather than a pair of pliers.

Like Wayne, it is primarily a moving map. On many occasions, I have gone out and gotten lost. I can stay lost as long as I want, but when I'm ready to get un-lost I'll use the GPS to begin routing me toward home. It also tells me my speed and cardinal direction among other things. It contains my music, which I pipe into my helmet when I want.

Like others who have posted in this thread, it helps locate lodging or food or fuel and navigate unfamiliar streets in an unfamiliar city.

John Henry
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