AFR Stelvio 8v - the truth!

[beetle]

Mark, I'm actually connecting the the brown wire from the LC-2 to where the black wire from the narrow band used to go. This is normally the one that simulates the narrow band output, but I reprogrammed it to be exactly the same as the yellow one, i.e. 0-5v linear. I checked the output with my multimeter and it reads 2.5v, bang in the middle, i.e Lambda 1. But when I connect it up to the ECU, it only shows around half that in Guzzidiag. Very strange. I'm thinking the 2 Lambda ECU can't handle the voltage as it's outside the normal working range, but I've no idea if that's true.

I believe it needs something on the - signal wire too. However, I've no idea how the 2 lambda ECu is configured to work. I'll have my grubby hands on a 2 lambda Stelvio soon, so I intend to find out. :D

And as I mentioned, Guzzidiag only shows a mV value when using a map where the Lambdas are on. Otherwise, zero!
I wonder if it could have something to do with the third Lambda flag that you can see in the map in Tuner Pro? I switched all three to off. maybe the third one should stay on?????

Definitely worth a try.

I'm off on a 4,000km trip to Norway tomorrow, so I won't be able to investigate any further for another week. I spent the last couple of hours with an Android tablet fixed to my Ram Mount running the Scan App, and with an action cam in my left hand going up and down the autobahn at different speeds :-) . (Alternative logging!!!). It actually worked pretty well and I think the map is good. I'll fine tune a bit more when I'm back.

Have fun!

[pauldaytona]

I noticed when doing this on my single lambda, that the displayed voltage in guzzidiag was not correct, it should be corrected in the latest version but maybe it was not changed in the two lambda defintion.  That doesnt make much difference it's only display. If you have nothing, then there is a problem doing it like this. If you have stock map with lambdas on you get a signal in scan 5mx? Then figure out which of the two lambdas is the one that displays there with disconnecting one at each time. 

[Xlratr]

Away on the bike last week, so couldn't do any more work on my map until today. I have the scan app running on an android device, and I did a first quick data log. Uploaded the file to the Innovate Log Works software without any problems, and it's easy to make a chart with all the information you need to make adjustments to the fuel map. I especially like the fact that you can see the length of time spent at a certain TP/RPM, so you can easily identify cruising speeds. Normally, this would be a perfect solution, the only problem being that in my case I still am not able to get AFR data recognised by the ECU when the Lambdas are switched off. With Lambdas switched on, I get a signal, so the wiring is OK. Seems to me the twin Lamba ECU works a bit different, or maybe I'm just missing something.

It's not too bad, as my workaround using an Action Cam to film the Throttle Position / RPM / AFR (from the Innovate Gauge) works pretty well. It's just not so tidy, and probably not quite as accurate. But close enough I think.

For those with single Lambda bikes and a Wide Band sensor, I would really recommend trying this Data Log App.



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[pauldaytona]

The only thing you can play with is there are 3 swiches for lambda off, try using two.

[Xlratr]

The only thing you can play with is there are 3 swiches for lambda off, try using two.

Yeah, Thanks Paul. I also thought about trying to activate the third red flag. But the Map I put on it this morning seems to be pretty much what I was aiming for, so I think I'll just leave it like that for for the time being. I'll monitor how it runs over the next couple of weeks, and if I do need to go back I'll try activating that "third Lambda".

For those who are interested, these are the AFR ratios I recorded from the standard map using a combination of the Scan App (for TPS and RPM), and an Innovate AFR gauge with Lambdas off (video from an action cam). The bike is standard except for a Zard with DB Killer. I took the readings at constant speed, on level roads and also with a slight incline to get different throttle positions.



Using that and a target AFR for the different RPM values (I chose a sliding AFR scale from 14.0:1 to 12.0:1), I could calculate the fuel I wanted and revise the map accordingly.

I've learnt that AFR readings can be misleading, but the plugs look good at different loads, the DB killer has a nice colour, and the bike runs strong and smooth. I don't think there's much more I can do as an amateur to make make sure the bike's set up right.




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[Xlratr]

I can only begin to imagine how much fuel some of you guys (like Mark and Paul) must use trying out different maps. :-) . I've only been at it for a few weeks, but I reckon I've gone through at least 40 litres just checking changes and logging TPS / AFR combinations. And that must be just a drop in the ocean compared to others! :-). Anyway, it's all good fun!

I think I'm done. It feels good, and I think it works well.

There's one interesting observation I made that I'd like to share with you. My original intention when starting out with all this was just to fix the jerkiness coming off idle. After that I started to make lots of other changes to fuel and ignition, but that jerkiness at very low speeds/rpm was difficult to get rid of. It was there with the original map and to some extent with any altered map I made. Looking at AFR at around 1400rpm, I could see it was really lean at around 18.1:1. Below that and above 1600 it was fine. You normally don't notice that when riding, but it was there, and I'm sure that's the reason for the jerkiness. But whatever changes I made to the fuel map at that point couldn't richen the mixture. Just as an experiment, I even increased the main fuel by 40% at the lowest combinations of rpm / TPS !!. It had NO effect on AFR at all, but I could feel a noticeable increase in vibration, almost as if the bike was fighting against something while trying to keep to the programmed 1250 idle speed. It seems that all the settings taken together, or maybe some hidden settings in the ECU stop the increased fuel in the map from actually getting through and lowering the AFR at very low engine speeds.

Alternatively (and maybe quite likely), this might be a result of the Zard exhaust having a strange harmonic at that speed. I'd love to hear if anyone else with a Zard is able to hold a steady 1400 rpm in neutral with just the throttle (lambda off), or if the weak mixture (or perceived  weak mixture!) makes it difficult.

I fixed the problem as best as possible by using the CO trim. But there is still a slight hiccup there at 1400. I think it's exhaust related.

Everything else is really fine.

John


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[beetle]

Ha! The Zard. I'm currently battling with the Zard for Griso's. Bad vibe around 2800 rpm.  The 'race' version needs more fuel to the point I'm concerned economy will suffer.


BTW, my fuel bill for May was around $400. I was going through 3 tanks a week and 2 on the weekend, just testing maps. The total cost this year is, well, astronomical.  That's one of the reasons I ask for a donation.....

[Xlratr]

Absolutely understandable with all the maps you've worked on!!

Any thoughts Mark on why the ECU seems not to feed the fuel from the map at those very low rpms, or maybe what might be overwriting that? Because the CO Trim does have an effect!


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[Bill Hagan]

Ha! The Zard. I'm currently battling with the Zard for Griso's. Bad vibe around 2800 rpm.  The 'race' version needs more fuel to the point I'm concerned economy will suffer.


BTW, my fuel bill for May was around $400. I was going through 3 tanks a week and 2 on the weekend, just testing maps. The total cost this year is, well, astronomical.  That's one of the reasons I ask for a donation.....

Was that request buried down in this thread somewhere?

I can only read a post or two here before my eyes glaze over as I understand only about every third word, most of which are prepositions! 

That said, I am extraordinarily grateful for what you guys do for us all.

Just had a run of grandbaby birthdays -- code for Kathi thinks each of the little shix deserves to be showered with gifts; I dissent; yes, I lose -- so my contribution may be a token, but happy to fund some beer or pizza in any event. 

Bill

 

[Vasco DG]

You really ought to find someone to load up that map I sent you for your G Bill. You need to see what all the fuss is about. ;D

Pete

[Bill Hagan]

You really ought to find someone to load up that map I sent you for your G Bill. You need to see what all the fuss is about. ;D

Pete

Can't wait, Pete, and have no doubts.

Unfortunately, everything here at (Iron) Cross Junction is built around "The Germans Are Coming," i.e., the impending visit in August of some of my German relatives and their friends.  It sort of a reverse-Normandy invasion: I sit in a pillbox high on a bluff.  The sea is empty ... but I know they are coming!  :o  Kathi has a list that grows daily.   :wife:

Seriously -- tho that scenario is ever so real -- I have been unable to do much of anything while finishing up the Moto Grappa, recovering (yet again) from hernia stuff, getting ready for the transatlantic assault, etc., after whining etc.  Very excited to try it out.  Winchester Motosports is ready to help.

Bill

P.S. As for donations, anyone as discerning as Mark in his recognition that a red Griso is the ultimate expression of the model deserves to be rewarded.   :D

[beetle]

Absolutely understandable with all the maps you've worked on!!

Any thoughts Mark on why the ECU seems not to feed the fuel from the map at those very low rpms, or maybe what might be overwriting that? Because the CO Trim does have an effect!

Look at the delta-fuel map for starters. Try richening it up at those rough spots. The original maps were designed by a blind guy throwing darts at an AFR chart, and the Zard is harsh mistress.

[beetle]

Bill, it's cool mate. No donation unless your happy. And no, the previous post wasn't a surreptitious request for a donation. Getting the maps right is no longer just for myself otherwise it would be just Pete and I riding around on the best Griso's on the planet. But there is a cost, and I do appreciate any help.

[pauldaytona]

Can't wait, Pete, and have no doubts.

Unfortunately, everything here at (Iron) Cross Junction is built around "The Germans Are Coming," i.e., the impending visit in August of some of my German relatives and their friends.  It sort of a reverse-Normandy invasion: I sit in a pillbox high on a bluff.  The sea is empty ... but I know they are coming!  :o  Kathi has a list that grows daily.   :wife:

Seriously -- tho that scenario is ever so real -- I have been unable to do much of anything while finishing up the Moto Grappa, recovering (yet again) from hernia stuff, getting ready for the transatlantic assault, etc., after whining etc.  Very excited to try it out.  Winchester Motosports is ready to help.

Bill

P.S. As for donations, anyone as discerning as Mark in his recognition that a red Griso is the ultimate expression of the model deserves to be rewarded.   :D

Well Bill, did you order a set of cables to start with? If you have them, we talk you trough the rest. Or even I can do it remote on your laptop. After that, it's easy DIY

[katanaman]

Hi, very interesting read through my glazed over eyes....  ???  i am probably about to go down this path as my 2012 Stelvio has the much talked about flat spot and a presume things may get worse when i fit my MIVV pipe that just turned up.
I am keen to spend the time to try and get this right, i have the correct cable and adapter and i have Guzzi Diag but i am at a bit of a loss doing anything more complicated than TB reset. Is there any post that walks someone like me through the process of getting a map and installing it then tweaking if required?

cheers

[molly]

Beetle(Mark) has done an excellent tutorial see here.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69168.0

[katanaman]

excellent, i will study this well.

thank you

[tiger_one]

Don't forget to look at the ignition advance, especially in the area before 3800 rpm from just off idle.  On my 2012 Griso, this accounted for most if not all of the big flat spot.