If you don't like Moto Guzzi's new styling direction, what do you do now?

[ScepticalScotty]

I have a 2004 B750 and always thought it was a pity that Guzzi didn't eveolve that model a bit further. The bike I would envisage would have the engine of these new V9s juiced up a little now the Heron heads are gone, a monoshock, maybe even USD forks maybe not and twin front disks. Would also come in a Mini Norge version. I quite like the styleing of the V7 Stone, but then again like the styling of my 2004 Breva!!!

[Kiwi_Roy]

I may buy a new to me Guzzi this spring and get a Cali II or even take a giant leap towards modernity and get a spine frame bike.

The California II is a great old bike, mine handles better than my V11 Sport (or at least it gives me more confidence), a couple of years back I took a training course on a simulated race track and found I was able to catch crotch rockets in the corners although they could out accelerate me. The instructor was shocked how well I was able to do on the old girl, several times he commented that I was almost dragging the rear crash bars.

[Dogwalker]

I like the *Old* bikes for heavens sakes but if you want an old bike then why not just buy one rather than gleefully trying to paint a once highly inovative company into a stagnant backwater?

Again with the "if you like old bikes, then why you just not buy on" argument?

Those that buy a "classic" bike (and there are many, cause, as said, the style is very popular today) don't want an old bike. They don't want to spend their life in the garage servicing it, and have in exchange crappy brakes and suspensions. They want a bike built with modern tecnology and reliability with a simple, user friendly, look. What they don't mind is having the fastest of the bunch, cause they realized that, in any case, 90% or the riders are not capable to use much more than a fraction of the possible performances of a modern bike.

Is the Street Triple a great bike? Obviously it is, but the bike that Triumph sell the most is the Bonneville, and the new Bonneville line is admittedly their biggest design effort so far. Shun Miyazawa, Product Manager of Yamaha Motor Europe, presenting the XSR700 said that they expect that the market of the "classic looking" bikes will double in the next four years. Their answer to the demand can't be: "If you like old bikes, then go buy an XS650, we produce the MT09 nowadays".

[Vasco DG]

Again with the "if you like old bikes, then why you just not buy on" argument?

Those that buy a "classic" bike (and there are many, cause, as said, the style is very popular today) don't want an old bike. They don't want to spend their life in the garage servicing it, and have in exchange crappy brakes and suspensions. They want a bike built with modern tecnology and reliability with a simple, user friendly, look. What they don't mind is having the fastest of the bunch, cause they realized that, in any case, 90% or the riders are not capable to use much more than a fraction of the possible performances of a modern bike.

Is the Street Triple a great bike? Obviously it is, but the bike that Triumph sell the most is the Bonneville, and the new Bonneville line is admittedly their biggest design effort so far. Shun Miyazawa, Product Manager of Yamaha Motor Europe, presenting the XSR700 said that they expect that the market of the "classic looking" bikes will double in the next four years. Their answer to the demand can't be: "If you like old bikes, then go buy an XS650, we produce the MT09 nowadays".

Sorry! Hoist on your own pettard! The whole argument I'm making is that *The Customer* shouldn't have to deal with that shit!

If though, they decide that *That Shit* is what the motorcycling community, bollocks! Any community! Is *All About*? It speaks volumes for the society I which we live. (See last night's rant! I won't resile from it!).

Pete

[Dogwalker]

Sorry! Hoist on your own pettard! The whole argument I'm making is that *The Customer* shouldn't have to deal with that shit!

And they don't have to. Nor a V7, or a Bonneville, or a CB1100 requires the kind of manteinance work that a real '70s bike requires, and they surely have way better brakes.

[Aaron D.]

Wayne, I've had cables go, generally a long way from home, and on Italian bikes that had a parts supply in our great nation that required innovation on my part. I'll take my chances with RBW. But more than that, it just works better.

On the original question-before I bought the Scout, I considered a Griso, a Cali 1400 and (what I really liked) a V7. I excluded the Griso and Cali on fairly logical ground based on size and intent-but I really liked the V7.

But the fueling was crap. Brand new bike, and it surged and such, throughout the ride. Possibly related, the driveline was making sounds I didn't like. Unacceptable for a new FI bike.

[Joliet Jim]

Again with the "if you like old bikes, then why you just not buy on" argument?

Those that buy a "classic" bike (and there are many, cause, as said, the style is very popular today) don't want an old bike. They don't want to spend their life in the garage servicing it, and have in exchange crappy brakes and suspensions. They want a bike built with modern tecnology and reliability with a simple, user friendly, look. What they don't mind is having the fastest of the bunch, cause they realized that, in any case, 90% or the riders are not capable to use much more than a fraction of the possible performances of a modern bike.

Is the Street Triple a great bike? Obviously it is, but the bike that Triumph sell the most is the Bonneville, and the new Bonneville line is admittedly their biggest design effort so far. Shun Miyazawa, Product Manager of Yamaha Motor Europe, presenting the XSR700 said that they expect that the market of the "classic looking" bikes will double in the next four years. Their answer to the demand can't be: "If you like old bikes, then go buy an XS650, we produce the MT09 nowadays".

Sums up my feeling, best looking bike in my garage is the 75 Trident. The problem is every time I fix one thing something else breaks, fix the carbs, and no spark, then the front caliper pisses all over the garage floor. I tired of working on it and would probably sell it in a heartbeat if I could get every thing ixed at the same time. I wish they put a triple motor in a thruxton chassis, I love the look and would probably jump on a triumph if I ver buy a new bike.

[rocker59]

Again with the "if you like old bikes, then why you just not buy on" argument?

Those that buy a "classic" bike (and there are many, cause, as said, the style is very popular today) don't want an old bike. They don't want to spend their life in the garage servicing it, and have in exchange crappy brakes and suspensions. They want a bike built with modern tecnology and reliability with a simple, user friendly, look. What they don't mind is having the fastest of the bunch, cause they realized that, in any case, 90% or the riders are not capable to use much more than a fraction of the possible performances of a modern bike.

Is the Street Triple a great bike? Obviously it is, but the bike that Triumph sell the most is the Bonneville, and the new Bonneville line is admittedly their biggest design effort so far. Shun Miyazawa, Product Manager of Yamaha Motor Europe, presenting the XSR700 said that they expect that the market of the "classic looking" bikes will double in the next four years. Their answer to the demand can't be: "If you like old bikes, then go buy an XS650, we produce the MT09 nowadays".

My feelings exactly.  I want a new bike with vintage good looks.  I do not like the origami transformer look of most "modern" motorcycles.  I prefer the classic organic lines of the past.  That being said, I have come to the realization that I don't want the maintenance and poor performance of a genuine vintage bike.  I've come to the realization that 1990s is as vintage as I want to ride on a regular basis.

There is no reason a vintage/retro-styled bike can't have modern suspension/brakes/handling.  Until the unveiling of the new Thruxton R, the Norton Commando 961 Cafe Racer held top spot for me, for this type of bike.  I do hope that Guzzi ups the game on the V7/9 Racer for 2017, giving it suspension and brakes to equal the Thruxton R. 

The 2014 V7 Special that I bought in August fills its niche pretty well.  I'm not happy with the suspensions, but the look and feel are perfect.  And it's new/reliable.

[bad Chad]

Not all 70s bikes were work.  My 78 GS1000 was a fantastic bike!  Aside from having to have the stator fixed, the bike was very little maintenance, handled as good as I could ride, and was very powerful.   2vpc, inline air cooled 4, with accurate fuel gage and great ergonomics, it really was a hell of a good bike.

I was bored last night and decided to check out web sites of the big 4 Japanese brands, good god things have gotten weird!   Take a look at what Honda has to offer, they appear to be lost in the wind?    All of them have mostly stuff that seems ugly, and unsure of what it wants to be.  Aside from a smattering of 700/800s and a 1200ish bikes, their was very, very little I would want to buy.

I want to see Guzzi come out with a more sporting bike too, and I suspect they will, but I super happy they aren't trying to follow the Asians down the path to the insect wars.

[Arizona Wayne]

Wayne, I've had cables go, generally a long way from home, and on Italian bikes that had a parts supply in our great nation that required innovation on my part. I'll take my chances with RBW. But more than that, it just works better.

On the original question-before I bought the Scout, I considered a Griso, a Cali 1400 and (what I really liked) a V7. I excluded the Griso and Cali on fairly logical ground based on size and intent-but I really liked the V7.

But the fueling was crap. Brand new bike, and it surged and such, throughout the ride. Possibly related, the driveline was making sounds I didn't like. Unacceptable for a new FI bike.

Aaron, my 750 Breva was the 1st Guzzi to have the EFI closed loop system and it has none of the issues the V7 you rode has.  If it did I wouldn't still have it.  It's throttle is impeccable from day 1 to 48Kmiles later.  I put lighter/louder mufflers on it and the ECU adjusted by itself to them.     When I 1st got the Breva it felt like a Swiss watch it's so precise.   The only complaint I have of it is it's gas tank of 4.7 gal. is really only good for 4.0 gal between fillups, so I carry an extra 1 gal. on trips.

[NCAmother]

I've already been through this with my allegiance to Plymouth, a one time spin off company that made 2 iconic muscle cars:  The GTX/RoadRunner and the 'Cuda. Different series like the super bird, AAR cuda, colors from panther pink to go mango, motors like the 340 6pack, 440 six pack, and of course the classic 426 hemi.   They ended up folding, Chrysler pushing dodges, but after all these years it's nice to see some 'devil may care' attitude with the hellcat

[Kev m]

Aaron, my 750 Breva was the 1st Guzzi to have the EFI closed loop system and it has none of the issues the V7 you rode has.  If it did I wouldn't still have it.  It's throttle is impeccable from day 1 to 48Kmiles later.  I put lighter/louder mufflers on it and the ECU adjusted by itself to them.     When I 1st got the Breva it felt like a Swiss watch it's so precise.   The only complaint I have of it is it's gas tank of 4.7 gal. is really only good for 4.0 gal between fillups, so I carry an extra 1 gal. on trips.

I wouldn't go blaming the RBW for the differences. For starters the 1TB V7 meets more strict emissions standards than the B7.

But more likely there was just something wrong with the one that Aaron rode and/or it was the early mapping cold start/low speed hunt we've seen. Either way the fueling has been great on my V7 Stone.

[johnr]

The glaring open slot in the Guzzi lineup is a sporty bike. The Griso is a little too much of an acquired taste for some people. I think the next bike from the factory will be a resurrection of the Le Mans name. ...

Another glaringly open slot for Guzzi is the cheep commuter.  A small single or twin such as one that a high school student might use.  That area is the bread and butter of a motorcycle manufacturer.

[Kev m]

Another glaringly open slot for Guzzi is the cheep commuter.  A small single or twin such as one that a high school student might use.  That area is the bread and butter of a motorcycle manufacturer.

Is it? Maybe in some parts of the world, but not the US.

[johnr]

Is it? Maybe in some parts of the world, but not the US.

Dunno about that Kev. Honda and others did very well with such machines there. Manufacturers who got into trouble and /or were taken off the board had almost invariably ignored that market.

[F650RIDER]

Guzzi, a niche brand that as much as we complain about Piaggio would be dead by now if they were independent.  The only analogy I can think of is in the bicycle world.  It use to be cyclists longed for a Cinelli, Masi, Colnago, De Rosa, all beautifully hand crafted  Italian lugged steel frames.  Down tube Campy Super Record 6 speed, you can see where I'm heading. 

What I remember from the 80's is Gitane and Campagnolo.

[Kev m]

Dunno about that Kev. Honda and others did very well with such machines there. Manufacturers who got into trouble and /or were taken off the board had almost invariably ignored that market.

DID being the operative word.

And again, I'm talking US sales vs. world.

[Murray]

Although looking at the original question their styling direction is not so much of an issue, its their engineering direction thats making me look elsewhere, KTM 1290 Superduke GT has my interest at the moment.

[bpreynolds]

Man, all I'm saying is Guzzi MUST be doing something right as per design because I haven't seen so many old coots get their suspenders and knickers in a knot since Geritol threatened to leave the market. 

No offense to anyone and really, what's the point in lamenting a thread title, but this whole stream here seems based on a completely bogus assumption that Guzzi will not fill the line back out and will keep on making nothing but V9s and 1400s.  They won't.  But they can't revamp their whole damn line in one year and let's face it, the Stelvio and Norge are great bikes (I enjoyed the '11 Stelvio I had for a bit) but are/were seriously losing propositions.  If you don't believe me and your heart is set on getting a wing tipped flying machine, go look on your nearest dealer floor and you'll find many of these poor pound puppies begging you take them home.   

[molly]

I would imagine Guzzi are restrained by head office. They can't get too sporty because of Aprillia, they can't go commuter because of Piaggio scooters so they are stuck in a classic/retro straight jacket.
I despair at the plastic insect look the Japanese seem to favour but there are plenty out there selling alternatives to keep most people with money to spend fed and watered.

[Mark West]

What I don't get about the V9 is the foot-forward pegs and trying to appeal to the cruiser crowd. I mean is there a big market for small displacement cruisers? Do they really expect to get a significant share of that market?

I can understand the strategy of making Guzzi a legacy/retro brand but I think they would do better sticking at what made the old Guzzi's so popular. Good all around performance, great touring platforms, reliability, etc.

I think the new electronics are a good move, but I think they should also focus on having quality suspension bits and a tank that allows for a reliable 200 mile range.

[Arizona Wayne]

What I don't get about the V9 is the foot-forward pegs and trying to appeal to the cruiser crowd. I mean is there a big market for small displacement cruisers? Do they really expect to get a significant share of that market?

I can understand the strategy of making Guzzi a legacy/retro brand but I think they would do better sticking at what made the old Guzzi's so popular. Good all around performance, great touring platforms, reliability, etc.

I think the new electronics are a good move, but I think they should also focus on having quality suspension bits and a tank that allows for a reliable 200 mile range.

Mark, what you & I think will show up in the sales volume(or lack) of this new model.  But I thought the new B11 would be a  big hit in the US and it wasn't so what do I know?

[Kev m]

What I don't get about the V9 is the foot-forward pegs and trying to appeal to the cruiser crowd. I mean is there a big market for small displacement cruisers? Do they really expect to get a significant share of that market?

I can understand the strategy of making Guzzi a legacy/retro brand but I think they would do better sticking at what made the old Guzzi's so popular. Good all around performance, great touring platforms, reliability, etc.

From someone who keeps a pretty good eye on the "Cruiser" market, those AREN'T FOOT-FORWARD pegs (anymore than the V7 is really, at least as far as said market is concerned, they're certainly no more than a Tonti Cali).

And I think one of the largest growth segments in the market right now is for < 1000cc bikes, cruisers or "Bobbers" included.

[bad Chad]

Mark, I understand that there is a relatively good sized market for just such machines.  The v9, not a foot forward cruiser, but compared to a typical standard, the pegs are slightly more forward, I'd call it mid mount.

HD, and Triumph, both sell a lot of retro-ish Sportys and Bonnies, to guys under 35, not to mention the Star Bolt.   I suspect that this is the market demo the V9 is pointed at, not that it won't appeal to many older riders too.

The "old Guzzi" as you call it, never was popular!  If Guzzi sold 1000 units in the states on any given year, it was considered a BIG year.   Certainly Piaggio is trying to figure out how to grow sales in the US.  They have a plan, I don't know exactly what it is, none of us do, but hopefully it will be better than the plans Guzzi used over the past 30 years!

[rocker59]

What I don't get about the V9 is the foot-forward pegs and trying to appeal to the cruiser crowd. 

I'm not seeing the "feet forward" pegs.  Placement is real similar to a Nevada.  Slightly forward of a standard V7.

Looks like a "standard" motorcycle, to me.

[oldbike54]

Man, all I'm saying is Guzzi MUST be doing something right as per design because I haven't seen so many old coots get their suspenders and knickers in a knot since Geritol threatened to leave the market. 





 

Kind of a specialty for some geezers 

  Dusty

[kingoffleece]

Agreed with Rocker.

[pikipiki]

What do you do?

Point out the direction things are going.....

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2015/november/mrs-kawasaki-vulcan-special/

Well if you can start with such a hideous cruiser as Kawa... Vulcan and get this there's hope for V9 range yet.

[Penderic]

Next year will see new bits that will improve the looks and performance .... I hope.

[rboe]

I see a potential market for super sized gas tanks......