1100 sporti charging

[Tom]

Little slow here.  You guys lost me 1/2 way through the thread.    Had to reread a couple of times.

[bigpants]

Hiya guy's,  sorry ive been away from the bike for a few days . Ive got it wired up now with (as roy suggested) the battery straight to the regs black and red wires. The black one is disconnected from its black and red counterpart , the white one still connected. As the battery is wired direct to reg ive disconnected the one way connector for the main red battery feed incase there was a prob there - there are signs of melting in the connector. I measured the ac  olts at the yellow and with engine off its reading 25v ac , when I start it it now drops to 13.5v ac where as before it was 45v. And increased revs reduce the voltage slightly.

[bigpants]

Sorry my mistake , I was measuring yellow wires relative to earth not to eachother. Back to 40+v ac.

[Kiwi_Roy]

So it must be charging then, the battery is clamping the AC down

Right?

Now you know it will charge if it gets the right signals we have to figure out why it wasn't, my guess is one of the relays.

I suggest you give up on the headlight related charging system and install an aftermarket direct connected regulator.

[rodekyll]

Has BP been using 4-pin or 5-pin relays?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Has BP been using 4-pin or 5-pin relays?

That could be an issue.. I think. 

[bigpants]

Hiya folks , sorry to resurrect this thread but im still up the creek without a paddle and things just got worse , the rear suspension link on my firestorm just snapped so im back working on the guzzi. Ok right  now ive got the two yellow wires (@45v ac) connected to reg , the red wire from reg hotwired straight to battery and all other wires disconnected. Which I think means the reg is now completely separate from the rest of the bike/loom. Output is 12.1v dc and drops a tiny bit with increased revs. Surely this means the genny must be the prob ?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Hiya folks , sorry to resurrect this thread but im still up the creek without a paddle and things just got worse , the rear suspension link on my firestorm just snapped so im back working on the guzzi. Ok right  now ive got the two yellow wires (@45v ac) connected to reg , the red wire from reg hotwired straight to battery and all other wires disconnected. Which I think means the reg is now completely separate from the rest of the bike/loom. Output is 12.1v dc and drops a tiny bit with increased revs. Surely this means the genny must be the prob ?

Nope, if you are getting 45v ac it's doing it's job.

[bigpants]

Thanks chuck. The reason I ask is of all the tests in the back of the manual the 'winding isloation to earth' one is givi ng me trouble . I cant get consistent results and im not sure im getting anywhere near 10M ohm.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Hiya folks , sorry to resurrect this thread but im still up the creek without a paddle and things just got worse , the rear suspension link on my firestorm just snapped so im back working on the guzzi. Ok right  now ive got the two yellow wires (@45v ac) connected to reg , the red wire from reg hotwired straight to battery and all other wires disconnected. Which I think means the reg is now completely separate from the rest of the bike/loom. Output is 12.1v dc and drops a tiny bit with increased revs. Surely this means the genny must be the prob ?

No, you need 12 Volts on the black wire otherwise the regulator won't turn On and the battery will go flat.
(I assume you still have the OEM Ducati Energia regulator)
We had these wires on the battery the other day and it seemed to be working

[bigpants]

Oh ok , cheers roy  , for some reason I thought the output of the reg was dependant on the voltage at black being lower than the required battery voltage so zero would be fine. Now I think about it im not sure that even makes sense.

[bigpants]

Sorry missed that question. I thought I had blown the original reg so now running a replacement german one for the guzzi , I gives the same 11.89v output - including with the black wire connected.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Oh ok , cheers roy  , for some reason I thought the output of the reg was dependant on the voltage at black being lower than the required battery voltage so zero would be fine. Now I think about it im not sure that even makes sense.

It sort of works that way but some Voltage is required to turn the electronics On, the AC coming in the yellow wires doesn't get used internally at all.

If you have 30 - 40 Volts AC with the yellow wires unplugged and only 15 or so when the regulator is plugged in tells me the current is going somewhere.
If you post me a link to the German one I will take a look.

[Murray]

Hiya folks , sorry to resurrect this thread but im still up the creek without a paddle and things just got worse , the rear suspension link on my firestorm just snapped so im back working on the guzzi. Ok right  now ive got the two yellow wires (@45v ac) connected to reg , the red wire from reg hotwired straight to battery and all other wires disconnected. Which I think means the reg is now completely separate from the rest of the bike/loom. Output is 12.1v dc and drops a tiny bit with increased revs. Surely this means the genny must be the prob ?

You have actually bolted the reg to the frame? you need to do this otherwise it won't work.

[Kiwi_Roy]

You have actually bolted the reg to the frame? you need to do this otherwise it won't work.

Good point Murray it needs a way for the current to return from battery negative to the alternator.
Some of the after market ones have a wire but if it doesn't the metal to metal contact is part of the circuit

The current flow is from one yellow wire thru the regulator out the red wire to the battery from battery Negative to chassis, from chassis to regulator and back to the alternator thru the other yellow wire.

Hopefully Bigpants will post a link to his after-market regulator so we can make sure he has everything.

[bigpants]

MVH-shop.de
Sorry had to get that down before I forgot , my 3g signal is so slow today. Anyway a link is beyond me but thats the shop I bought it from but I have tried it and the origional reg and got the same results. The reg is bolted to the bottom  yoke with good metal to metal contact and im running an extra earth to the engine and have tried an earth straight to the battery neg as well. Today I did 15 miles on it and it reminded me of why im persevering with it. Just to recap. 45v ac = 11.9v dc regardless of which reg and regardless of how I wire it up but im struggling to get 10M ohm generator isolation.

[Kiwi_Roy]

I wouldn't worry about the isolation, even 1 Meg would be ok, it will be effected by the weather.
I really can't help unless I know what regulator I'm looking at.
Just give us a make and part No if you can't find a link.

[Old Jock]

I looked back earlier in the thread where BG had posted as link and a part number

It doesn't tell me much but here is what I found, maybe BG can confirm that this is the item in question

https://www.mvh-shop.de/regulator/rectifier-DC-003

I suppose its a bit academic if he's getting the same result from 2 separate reg/recs kinda points to the problem being elsewhere

I'm struggling, if all the earths are good and its connected as per the manual states then the voltage has to be getting dragged down by something.

One thing that will give you false DC readings regardless is if the battery is not fully charged, I'd like confirmation of the battery resting voltage prior to and after these tests.

Low battery volts will result in apparent low charging volts until the battery fully charges, it acts like a reservoir and pulls down the whole system until its fully charged

Regarding the stator coil resistance, that's a difficult thing to measure.

A multimeter is not really up to the task to accurately asses a resistance that high. Depending on your multimeter you could be getting complete rubbish. You really need a Megger to start getting reliable resistance readings that high.

When you do the check of the yellow wires to earth, are each reading about the same, if so chances are all is well.

I'm still not convinced that there is anything wrong with the generator, it seems to be reliably supplying 45V AC and that's around what you should be seeing,

From the manual if you are getting these readings or close then all is well with the generator

r.p.m.            1000 3000 6000
A.C. volts       15     40      80

John

[Tom]

I love thread like this.  I have to read this about 3 times.  I'm lost.       

[Kiwi_Roy]

I looked back earlier in the thread where BG had posted as link and a part number

It doesn't tell me much but here is what I found, maybe BG can confirm that this is the item in question

https://www.mvh-shop.de/regulator/rectifier-DC-003
 ll the earths are good and its connected as per the manual states then the voltage has to be getting dragged down by something.
 

If it is this regulator it needs a Voltage reference on the black wire similar to the OEM Ducati Energis

For n initial test you could just connect the black wire to the battery by way of one of the switched fuses.

[bigpants]

Sorry but I'm back. I've been living with the problem for the last 8 months , carrying a spare battery and changing every 15 miles and never doing more than 25 in total . It's got me to work every day and is still a joy to ride. I can do a battery change like a formula 1 pit crew. I've not been able to risk working on the bike and making it worse but I've just bought a little 125 for work so the guzzi is back in the living room and the multimeter is at the ready. I've bought another reg/rec as I'm getting voltage everywhere on the frame that's coming from the reg body/earth. So here we go again. 1st question - the yellow wires from genny just have two identical bullet connectors , does it matter which goes to which ?
All help much appreciated.

[guzzisteve]

Should not make a difference.

[bigpants]

Cheers Steve. I thought so but needed a second opinion.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Hi BP, where the heck have you been.
We started this process back in July 2016 but you keep disappearing on us.
You certainly deserve a medal for persistence

Please fill us in on what regulator you have, you had a German one last time you were here
Make and Model, a link to the wiring diagram.

The OEM regulator needed 12 Volts on the black wire before it would start, this was supplied from the headlight circuit. I suspect the German one needed that also.
Several times with my Guzzis I've had to wire the black wire to the battery

Also needed a good ground as that was part of the circuit The regulator switches one yellow wire to the battery at the same time connecting the other to ground (chassis) Charging current goes from yellow out the red wire to battery and back via ground to the other yellow wire

A 30 Amp fuse in the red wire to the battery, any sign of overheating there?

[KiwiKev]

Hi BP, where the heck have you been.
We started this process back in July 2016 but you keep disappearing on us.
You certainly deserve a medal for persistence

Please fill us in on what regulator you have, you had a German one last time you were here

The OEM regulator needed 12 Volts on the black wire before it would start, this was supplied from the headlight circuit. I suspect the German one needed that also.
Several times with my Guzzis I've had to wire the black wire to the battery

Also needed a good ground as that was part of the circuit The regulator switches one yellow wire to the battery at the same time connecting the other to ground (chassis) Charging current goes from yellow out the red wire to battery and back via ground to the other yellow wire

A 30 Amp fuse in the red wire to the battery, any sign of overheating there?

Zzzzzzzzzzz


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bigpants]

Hi  Roy , good to hear from you. Sorry for the disappearance , Sometimes working on this bike builds to a crescendo of despair and frustration and I just have to put it down for a while but the old girl always stirs my loins back into action eventually.
So I've got another of those German regs to play with and I'm thinking that what probably happened before was that a fault somewhere blew the replacement reg the moment I started the bike so im mulling things over before fitting the new one. I'm thinking of going straight in for the hot wired fitment direct to battery and bypassing the loom and checking that. I'v had good earths all through and currently run extras to be sure. With the broken reg fitted im getting about 11v out plus about 4v leaking through the body of the reg. Short circuit tests reveal what we already know - its knackered.

[bigpants]

Oh and yes there were signs of overheating  in the fuse.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Some model Guzzis did away with the fuse altogether.
If you keep the fuse perhaps drill holes in the legs and bolt the wires directly to it, you need a really good contact, they seldom blow usually just overheat from a bad connection.

Regulator make/model or a link to website please

[bigpants]

Yeah this is my second loom and the first one didn't have the fuse. I'll re - do it as u suggest.

[Kiwi_Roy]

You could do away with the fuse but I would at least have a few inches of lighter gauge wire as a sacrificial link.

Another point that sometimes overheats is the yellow wire bullet connectors, they can be replaced by crimp links also.

For testing you can connect it up as shown bypassing the loom if you need to or it's suspect.
Connect the Voltage reference wire of the regulator (usually Black of Black/White pair) direct to the battery Positive, It will
draw a few milliamps when the bike is not running but don't worry about switching it until the charging is proven.
You don't need to worry about the white wire for the charge light, thats a separate function, add that later.


You should see at least 13 Volts on the battery while running.

I showed in red how the current flows so you can see how important the regulator ground is. This is just for one half cycle then it
switches over and flows from the other end of the coil and back from ground through the other yellow wire.
The complete diagram is shown in my reply 22 on page 1