Author Topic: Help setting ignition points on a V65 GT  (Read 150 times)

Online Pescatore

  • Sunday Rider
  • **
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 70
  • Location: Reading, Massachusetts
Help setting ignition points on a V65 GT
« on: April 24, 2021, 12:25:24 AM »
I have a 1991 Sessantacinque GT (small block) that I am slowly bringing back to life https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=102352.0
Originally it had the Motoplat ignition and as most of them, it died at a young age.
The ignition was replaced with standard points.  They look like this:




As you can see the spring on the right side breaker has jumped out and is touching the green wire.  It should wrap tightly
around the pivot point like the left side breaker.  In fact, the right breaker does not close well and it has much less retention compared to
the other one.  Its resistance jumps around when closed.  If I push on it, it goes to zero Ohms.  I cleaned the points and it had no effect.
It looks like something I need to fix.
I want to see if I can fix the spring, before ordering this kit: https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_157&products_id=899

But before I take anything apart, I would like to understand how to set the fixed advance.
I read the procedure in this manual, page 125: https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_v35-ii_v50-iii_v35-imola_v50-monza_v35c_v50c_v65_v65sp_en.pdf
My flywheel does not have the letters S and D, just a notch as in figure 180, but the manual doesn't refer to this picture.  I guess marks 2 and 3 in
figure 179 correspond to the one at 7 in figure 180...:undecided:
Another detail in the picture is the "0" notch on the points plate is not aligned to the engine case mark (top left).  I am not sure if that is a typical
amount of delay.  It could be compensating for the bad spring in breaker 1.

Does anyone have a well written procedure for setting the static timing on a small block?
'91 Sessantacinque GT
'80 CM400T
MGNOC Member
Ascolta sempre e solo musica vera
E cerca sempre se puoi di capire

Online moto-uno

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 845
  • Location: Burnaby , B.C
Re: Help setting ignition points on a V65 GT
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2021, 01:54:18 AM »
 You have to replace the right hand set of points where the green wire has shorted to them and melted
the insulator and softened the spring , causing your wandering resistance readings . Peter

Offline pat80flh

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • *
  • Posts: 254
  • Location: Finger Lakes area of NY
Re: Help setting ignition points on a V65 GT
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2021, 06:27:17 AM »
I've got an 1984 V65C,  that came with a Dyna ignition. As an old dinosaur, I distrust black boxes and transistors.   I was told that the dual points on small block Guzzis never worked right and keep the Dyna. Something to consider.   I used whatever shop manual I could find on thisoldtractor to set timing, you may want to whittle up a degree wheel.
00 Bassa
80 FLH (in rehab)
84 V65C
75 850T prject

Offline Frenchfrog

  • Guzzi Mentor
  • ****
  • Posts: 322
Re: Help setting ignition points on a V65 GT
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2021, 06:55:53 AM »
There were two versions of the points for smallblocs according to Guzziology. I'm guessing that the second version is the good one. Mine has a Sachse ignition on it after the Motoplatt went south.

Wildgoose Chase Moto Guzzi

Re: Help setting ignition points on a V65 GT
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2021, 06:55:53 AM »

Online Chuck in Indiana

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 28247
Re: Help setting ignition points on a V65 GT
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2021, 07:30:20 AM »
Just google degree wheel.. you can print you own. Cheap. (Guzzi content.)  :smiley: Ditch the points and install a Dyna S. No black box. I use one on the AeroLario and as secondary ignition on Mouser. Never a failure in many many years..
Besides the fiddly nature of the points themselves, you have to regularly clean and lube the advance mechanism. The Dyna makes it simple.
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal

02 Scura RC
87 AeroLario
79 G5
95 Skorpion tour
 
I think senility is going to be a fairly smooth transition for me..

Offline not-fishing

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1187
  • Location: Folsom, Ca
Re: Help setting ignition points on a V65 GT
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2021, 08:38:41 AM »
I also 2nd the Dyna, although they do send out bad units.  Identifying and getting a replacement was relatively easy even if it did take about a month turn around time.

Painting the timing marks really helped me see them when using the timing lights.

I've updated two small blocks with the Dyna and they run really well.  The one thing they don't tell you is to replace the coils, I used 5 ohm, and replace the 50 year old spark plug wires (something I learned with Alfa Romeos long ago).  The full up kit is about $500 with new spark plug wires.

I did try a US made optical trigger system with bad results.  I preferred the precision of an optical trigger vs Hall Effect (magnetic) but the optical product didn't work after many attempts and discussions with the manufacturer.

Even my "leave it alone" son agrees with me on replacing the points with Dyna.  The Small Blocks have a reputation of eating points at a high rate.  The cost of the replacement points actually makes the Dyna trigger a good deal after a few sets.

In full disclosure I should warn you I've been upgrading ignition systems since '74 when I first put a CDI box on my '72 Karman Ghia.

Probably one of the best upgrades I've had was a electronic distributor for the stock dual point distributor on my '79 Alfa Romeo.  No more pulling the distributor and replacing the dual points every 12,000 miles.

Also on my V65 Resto-mod I replaced the advance springs, one was really odd looking, but I'm not sure it really needed it now.

Mark
Griso 1100
Rosso Corsa Lemans
1/2 a V50 III (with my son)
V65 SP - soon to be finished
'75 850T with sidecar - a new project and adventure

Offline guzzisteve

  • Guzzi Hero
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 9506
  • "Just Ride It"
Re: Help setting ignition points on a V65 GT
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2021, 10:53:37 AM »
Get something else, electronic maybe OR I used to solder a washer on end of point post so points don't drift off. Makes it a one time use for points set but at least you can go somewhere.
Smallblock junk, and a wonderfull design from Guzzi. They could have put a groove & Eclip on end of shafts but no.
"Pray through Carlo & your bike shall be healed"
Location: Planet Earth

Online Pescatore

  • Sunday Rider
  • **
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 70
  • Location: Reading, Massachusetts
Re: Help setting ignition points on a V65 GT
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2021, 01:00:32 PM »
Thanks for the advice.  Guzziology also recommends punting the points.
My three nemeses always haunt me (time, money and skill).
I still have a lot to do before I can crank the engine and I am hoping to take it to the rally in NH.
If I can get it good enough with $30 points and some fiddling, I'll consider the Dyna S later on.

I was looking for a procedure more clear than the manuals and more specific than Guzziology.
After an overdose of YouTube videos, Guzziology makes more sense.
I also have the split plate, so it might not take lots of back and forth.
'91 Sessantacinque GT
'80 CM400T
MGNOC Member
Ascolta sempre e solo musica vera
E cerca sempre se puoi di capire

 

20 Ounce Stainless Steel Double Insulated Tumbler with donation credit
Buy a quality tumbler and support the forum at the same time!
Better than a YETI! BPA and Lead free.
Advertise Here