Author Topic: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling  (Read 2211 times)

Offline mmcwhitehead

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New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« on: August 09, 2021, 07:28:29 PM »
A friend recently bought a new '21 V7 Special 850. Its his first bike ever. He's coming up on 300 miles, it's new and so is he.

He tells me that it pulses for the first few miles when he leaves work at the end of the day. It doesn't do it in the mornings. He called the dealer. They suggest that, if it sits outside in the sun (it does), he should open the gas cap to vent off any buildup of pressure in the tank just before he leaves work.

He plans to try that tomorrow.

I'm wondering if this is a common occurrence with V7 850's. This one is built to the Euro-5 standard, so I guess it's possible.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 09:02:25 AM by mmcwhitehead »
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Re: New V7 III Special Pulsing
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2021, 07:49:45 PM »
I have read that the 21 Euro 5 V85 will do that. It tends to not be as much with the cruise control set. Sorry but I forget what the fix has been. Check the thread on ADV rider...close to the last few pages I believe.
https://advrider.com/f/threads/moto-guzzi-v85-tt.1265870/unread
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Offline DaSwami

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Re: New V7 III Special Pulsing
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2021, 08:54:27 PM »
I did not know the V7iii  were still available in 2021. At any rate, a canisterectomy will cure any vapor lock issues


Offline mmcwhitehead

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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2021, 09:03:47 AM »
Yeah, I was wrong on the model designation. Guess I'm a bit behind the times. It is a V7 Special 850.
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2021, 09:03:47 AM »

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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2021, 09:21:09 AM »
The one I rode at Blackman's certainly didn't do that, but it was well warmed up, and for all I know had been vented well.

That said, if it goes away I'd guess it's a warm-up issue or venting and not really worry about it.

Though I'm curious if he's vented it by opening the cap and tested yet?

FWIW I have a 2013 MK I Stone that sometime surges BADLY at start up, but it goes away in a minute or two once warmed.

Ironically the 2018 MK III Dark doesn't do it at all. Go figure.

I've come to the conclusion it's mapping related on the MK I, but not worth a change as it's so relatively minor (as long as I'm not in a rush to leave when I cold start it).
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Offline mmcwhitehead

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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2021, 09:47:32 AM »
Well, he tried venting the tank by momentarily opening the cap before leaving work yesterday- no difference.
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2021, 09:49:42 AM »
Any chance he gave his bike a heavy washing with a hose, and maybe got moisture into the oxygen sensor?
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2021, 09:52:04 AM »
Personally, I'm impressed that MG is managing to cope with the Euro 5 regulations while still using an air cooled engine (cudos).  I'm would not be surprised by an odd starting issue, or weird idle condition, or momentary surging etc... with the TAXES getting levied onto these machines it is inevitable.  If you consider the multitude of variations in the mechanical devices sensors controllers etc.. that all must be compensated by the software programmers understanding of what's going on,  and combine that with global fuels, environments, riding conditions and style, I think its kind of amazing...

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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2021, 10:49:51 AM »
Get rid of the EVAP canister & stuff. What also helps is to get rid of the SAS system and block it off. All EPA junk.
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2021, 11:00:44 AM »
Get rid of the EVAP canister & stuff. What also helps is to get rid of the SAS system and block it off. All EPA junk.

Ever the rebel I kept mine, but I checked first. I parked in the sun, and cold started my bike (with a hose pincher installed on the EVAP purge line). No difference, it still stumbled. So I kept it. Why?

Cause when I listened to people on this website and took the EVAP system off my Jackal, my garage forever smelled of gasoline.

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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2021, 01:51:24 PM »
.........my garage forever smelled of gasoline.

No better smell for a gear head's garage, except perhaps his "essence of Bondo" cologne...
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2021, 01:53:37 PM »
No better smell for a gear head's garage, except perhaps his "essence of Bondo" cologne...

No, not even a little.

Especially in an attached garage.

No thanks.
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2021, 04:29:52 PM »
Ok, here it is, I agree with Kev! My 01 EV stinks up the garage because the previous owner took everything off. Stupid S... left the nipples on the injector to head boots wide open to suck air. DS! Anyway if the so called engineers can't make it run ok without removing the Evap system and the SAS they need to be fired. If I felt I had an issue the best I might consider is a pin hole through the two way valve.
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Offline SLDMRossi

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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2021, 05:09:22 PM »
No doubt, if you wait a  little bit there'll probably be an updated Map that the dealer can flash into the ECU. Fuel Injection recalibrations are becoming a Moto Guzzi norm...

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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2021, 05:59:48 PM »
My 2020 V85 never did this.  Must be the new tune?
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2021, 06:13:05 PM »
My 2020 V85 never did this.  Must be the new tune?

Different throttle body, different valve train, yeah different tune too but lots of differences.
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2021, 06:53:58 PM »
If you have the early 2020 V85 map, don't let anyone near it!
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2021, 09:58:23 AM »
Is it possible he has it in the wrong traction control mode? I had my V7III in mode 2 by mistake and thought it was stumbling and thought it had poor mapping or something. As soon as I went to mode 1 the smile returned to my face. As for why it happens only on the way home.......maybe he pushes it harder cause he is so thrilled to have left work!
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2021, 01:32:03 PM »
Is it possible he has it in the wrong traction control mode? I had my V7III in mode 2 by mistake and thought it was stumbling and thought it had poor mapping or something. As soon as I went to mode 1 the smile returned to my face. As for why it happens only on the way home.......maybe he pushes it harder cause he is so thrilled to have left work!
Scott

Good point. My Mk 3 also came with TC level 2 so maybe that's the factory preset. I found it very intrusive, cutting power on everything from street lines to manhole (person hole?) covers to choppy pavement. That said this sounds more like a re-start issue at idle than something occurring once underway.

My V85 stumbled a bit until the valves were adjusted at 900mi but that's likely a long shot. Suggest your buddy check with another dealer like Cadre or Hamlin's to get their take. Could be a Euro 5 thing on the '21's
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2021, 04:03:15 PM »
Just read on ADVRider forum that stumbling on the '21 models could be a faulty stator which also performs the crank sensor function.

https://advrider.com/f/threads/moto-guzzi-v85-tt.1265870/page-680#post-42818295
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2021, 05:59:28 PM »
Ok, I will get a 2022 and let them work out a few things.
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2022, 11:38:18 AM »
Get rid of the EVAP canister & stuff. What also helps is to get rid of the SAS system and block it off. All EPA junk.

Does this void the warranty?
inditx

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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2022, 12:29:21 PM »
Here's the easy fix for the V7-850 hiccup.  Rather than remove the whole evap system (just lazy I guess) I just removed the lower hose from the Evap control valve and capped it with a rubber cap.  Works like a charm. 

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Offline Bulldog9

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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2022, 03:44:39 PM »
Get rid of the EVAP canister & stuff. What also helps is to get rid of the SAS system and block it off. All EPA junk.

The issue seems to be the check valve sticking. MI had an innovative approach that keeps the system in place but eliminates the check valve and allows the system to vent through the charcoal canister for those who may have visual inspection at emissions inspection centers.

They remove the vacuum line from the TB(s) stuff a ball bearing into the line to block it off and reconnect, then remove the check valve, run a drill though it and re-assemble. I did the same on my MGX. Very Simple. On the Breva/Norge, I ripped the whole system out, connected the TB barbs with a vacuum line and vent the tank to below the chassis.

I havent had a problem with my Stornello system yet. No whale song, farting, etc, though I have found an occasional surge issue in similar instances after sitting for a few hours. Not tank vacuum related, seems to be fueling/map. Clears up in a few minutes. Could be psychosomatic but happens more on cheap fuel.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 04:15:10 PM by Bulldog9 »
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2022, 03:58:17 PM »
I think on the 850 it has to be done Daves way because it's electronic and would throw a code.
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2022, 09:17:27 PM »
Here's the easy fix for the V7-850 hiccup.  Rather than remove the whole evap system (just lazy I guess) I just removed the lower hose from the Evap control valve and capped it with a rubber cap.  Works like a charm. 



Thanks Dave, a pic is worth a thousand words!
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2022, 03:50:53 AM »
As Dave's modification. Although once I confirmed the cause of my "hiccup" I did the complete canister removal because I could & hate unnecessary crap on the bike.
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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2022, 04:29:07 PM »
Don’t need to plug the hose into anything or block it off right?

Online Dave Swanson

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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2022, 05:25:53 PM »
Don’t need to plug the hose into anything or block it off right?

It's not necessary to plug the hose.  You can see the hose tucked in behind the control valve in this picture.

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Re: New V7 Special 850 Stumbling
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2022, 07:45:29 PM »
Are you referring to something like this ?
https://youtu.be/Li8qvFVuAJ8
The bike had not been started for almost 2 weeks, but it always does exactly the same thing. There is that short phase where it surges like that and then from there on (as you see), it smooths out perfectly.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2022, 07:49:16 PM by Huzo »

 

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