Author Topic: Hydro confusion, help please.  (Read 655 times)

Online inditx

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Hydro confusion, help please.
« on: June 29, 2022, 08:20:26 AM »
Iím confused, not an unusual thing for me but Iíve looked and can't find my answers.

Iím looking at 2 hydros, 04 Stone and 04 EV;

*The Stone has had a ďsolid lifterĒ? fix but can't tell me what under the covers looks like, with a dual plate clutch, unknown on triple tree.
*The EV had a fix done with snapped off stems but can't tell me about the shiny metal covers or not, single plate clutch, campaigns say tappets and triple tree done

Your collective advice please and go...... :popcorn:
inditx

Offline Wayne Orwig

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2022, 08:39:14 AM »
*The Stone has had a ďsolid lifterĒ? fix but can't tell me what under the covers looks like, with a dual plate clutch, unknown on triple tree.
*The EV had a fix done with snapped off stems but can't tell me about the shiny metal covers or not, single plate clutch, campaigns say tappets and triple tree done

What is a "solid lifter fix". Doesn't exist. The hole in the block for the lifter is the wrong size so you can't practically convert to solids. I am guessing it has the upgraded hydraulics. But they won't pull off a valve cover for you?

Converting from that single plate clutch would be pricey.
Scientist have discovered that people will believe anything, if you first say "Scientists have discovered...."

Online inditx

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2022, 08:41:46 AM »
Thatís what I thought but youíve confirmed the ďsolid lifterĒ confusion.
Donít want to gamble on a single plate either....

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2022, 10:02:10 AM »
Solid lifter for hydro's is using the latest kit but use the slugs they set them to. they use normal rockers & 4 slugs. I know Ace was doing a few like that w/no problems.
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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2022, 10:02:10 AM »

Online bigbikerrick

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2022, 01:39:07 PM »
I personally would go with the EV. Not too sure about the" solid lifter fix". I had an 03 hydro, an aluminum, and it was a sweet motor. It was uncannily quiet!
Rick.
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Online inditx

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2022, 03:20:08 PM »
Solid lifter for hydro's is using the latest kit but use the slugs they set them to. they use normal rockers & 4 slugs. I know Ace was doing a few like that w/no problems.

Thanks Steve, so do they require adjustment as a solid lifter or no?

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2022, 03:22:19 PM »
I personally would go with the EV. Not too sure about the" solid lifter fix". I had an 03 hydro, an aluminum, and it was a sweet motor. It was uncannily quiet!
Rick.

I like the EV too bigbikerrick but am a little leery of the single plate clutch.
Did yours have a single plate?
inditx

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2022, 03:28:05 PM »
Thanks Steve, so do they require adjustment as a solid lifter or no?
Yes, cause it is solid. Pushrod sits on solid lifter in the cam follower. Normal Guzzi pushrods go into the follower w/o a lifter cause they aren't a Hydro engine.

Single plate clutch will be pricey to swap out.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2022, 03:30:07 PM by guzzisteve »
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Online inditx

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2022, 03:55:48 PM »
Gotcha, thanks sir!

Offline s1120

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2022, 06:10:03 AM »
I surprised to still see some single plate clutches around. Back when I was looking, all research showed that those failed fast, and at low miles. I would think by now most would have been fixed.
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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2022, 12:26:16 PM »
My 03. Aluminum had the dual plate clutch from the factory.The bike was titled as an 03, but it had a build date of 2002. Those were some weird times at MG!
Rick
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Offline johnwesley

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2022, 07:32:46 PM »
Iím confused, not an unusual thing for me but Iíve looked and can't find my answers.

Iím looking at 2 hydros, 04 Stone and 04 EV;

*The Stone has had a ďsolid lifterĒ? fix but can't tell me what under the covers looks like, with a dual plate clutch, unknown on triple tree.
*The EV had a fix done with snapped off stems but can't tell me about the shiny metal covers or not, single plate clutch, campaigns say tappets and triple tree done

Your collective advice please and go...... :popcorn:
inditx

The solid lifter fix was new lifter internals made in Germany. It makes the lifter solid. The stone sounds like a solid buy if you want that style/ fit. I wanted a full Guzzi cal experience with linked brakes and floorboards all the oddities that makes a goose a goose. So I went with the EV. I really didnít want the hydro lifters but just couldnít resist the 03 I found. Had full records and all recalls done so I snap it up.

Are there any difference in accessories between the bikes? I would assume the ev is low mileage with the signal plate clutch?
2003 cal ev ďtanker

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2022, 08:19:44 PM »
Iím conflicted on the Stone because I really donít want tube tires and prefer dual discs up front.
The EV is nice but has the single plate clutch.

So the solids wonít require adjustment and thatís a plus for the Stone.
All I know on the EV is itís had a ďtappetĒ campaign done, not sure which one.

inditx

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2022, 09:13:54 PM »
Iíve had an 04 EV as well as an 07 vintage.
I now have an 02 Stone.
I have not missed the duel rotors , nor the tachometer or floorboards.
The tube tires has not been an issue and valve adjustments just become a 10k norm.
It comes down to what you become accustomed to.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 07:21:00 AM by Ncdan »

Offline s1120

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2022, 06:36:23 AM »
02 stone owner here also. Personaly dont like the floor boards so thats a plus for me. I perfer the lower, more flat bars on the stone. Fits my build better. I do miss the tach though, and might add a second front disk. Other then that. Dont worry about valve adjustments at all. Unless you hate the tappet noise [and thats really part of being a Guzzi..] after you have done it once it takes a good 15 min to do.
Paul B

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2022, 10:06:25 AM »
Iíve had an 04 EV as well as an 07 vintage.
I now have an 02 Stone.
I have not missed the duel rotors , nor the tachometer or floorboards.
The tube tires has not been an issue and valve adjustments just become a 10k norm.
It comes down to what you become accustomed to.
Good to know
So are they ever much out of adjustment?
Thanks

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2022, 10:08:20 AM »
02 stone owner here also. Personaly dont like the floor boards so thats a plus for me. I perfer the lower, more flat bars on the stone. Fits my build better. I do miss the tach though, and might add a second front disk. Other then that. Dont worry about valve adjustments at all. Unless you hate the tappet noise [and thats really part of being a Guzzi..] after you have done it once it takes a good 15 min to do.

Maybe adding a second rotor because of stopping power?
I prefer a quieter motor but donít mind the noise on my V7 850 because the Agostiniís help.  :thumb:

Offline johnwesley

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2022, 05:28:12 PM »
Iím conflicted on the Stone because I really donít want tube tires and prefer dual discs up front.
The EV is nice but has the single plate clutch.

So the solids wonít require adjustment and thatís a plus for the Stone.
All I know on the EV is itís had a ďtappetĒ campaign done, not sure which one.

inditx

Since youíre in Kc area give ACE a call and see what the clutch replacement costs. Heíll shoot ya straight.Then you can make a call on which bike. Iím sure the extra disc would be cheaper way to go though.
2003 cal ev ďtanker

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2022, 07:16:14 PM »
Good, thanks John!

Offline moto-uno

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2022, 07:31:15 PM »
  Aren't we talking (clutch assembly) costs that are near to a complete RAM clutch assembly ? Peter

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2022, 10:52:55 PM »
The Single plate Clutch would be upwards of $1000.00 using all new parts. I have one I know, mine left me stranded in PA, it had 10,000 miles when it failed. I love the EVís but make sure the price you pay takes into account the clutch replacement.

Offline Kiwi Dave

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2022, 12:20:30 AM »

Converting from that single plate clutch would be pricey.


I did one from a bike I purchased from Moto International.

The single plate clutch was lovely, but constantly required clutch lever adjustment, and it was soon obvious what was going on. Moto International sent me the rmulti-plate clutch replacement kit, but it was a huge job to replace.  However, once it was done, the clutch lever adjustment was much more stable.

Offline s1120

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2022, 06:06:35 AM »
Maybe adding a second rotor because of stopping power?
I prefer a quieter motor but donít mind the noise on my V7 850 because the Agostiniís help.  :thumb:

I am planning that. Slowly picking up the parts as I find them.
Paul B

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2022, 12:33:59 PM »
Iíve now owned 3 hydro 1100 Calis and 2 solid lifter Calis.  Itís splitting hairs to me but a well sorted hyro motor with proper recall is a small bit smoother to me.  Alternately, and this is just my seat of the pants impression, I think the solid lifter bikes had a little bit more oomph.  Again, that was just my impression and could be colored by the fact the hydro is smoother, but the acceleration on the 1100 solid bikes could sometimes be a little surprising and grin inducing to me whereas the hydros are the slightest bit more predictable to me.  Anyhow.  As you know from my recent build, , you can always add a 2nd disc up front if you want.  Itís relatively easy and bolts right up.  I agree with a couple other posters that the EVs are nice bikes but I hate floorboards and I personally didnít like some of the chrome plated plastic on the EVs.  I also think the kind of duckbill tail light setup on the EVs is not quite ugly, but not my preference.  Thatís just me; I prefer the more simple look of the Stones. 
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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2022, 12:46:15 PM »
From memory of my 04 hydro compared to my 02 solid lifter Stone thereís one thing that comes to mind.

The hydro would come to life, very explosively starting around 4K to redline. Sort of like a 4 barrel Holly coming in.
Where the 02 Stone just pulls strong throughout the acceleration from start low RPM to redline.
Not saying one is better than the other, just the difference I can recall from the hydro a few years ago.
I think either motor is a great motorcycle motor!

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Re: Hydro confusion, help please.
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2022, 02:00:48 PM »
Thanks Brian and Dan!

 


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