Still in Crate '81 Le Mans 850 III Going to Auction

[flower_king001]

According to Nada a 1987 LeMans SE in Excellent condition tops out at $3810. So with sellers and buyers fees added, if it tops $3K it could be interesting. Nada is only a single data point so who knows. There are a lot of interesting motorcycles that can be bought for well under $5K. No idea if a still in the crate LeMans 1000 SE is one of those or not.

If it’s a Canadian model, it will need, at least, a new speedometer and correct USA paperwork. New or not, being that old it will require $1000’s in parts and time to go through it to make it road worthy. I remember at the time, the 16” LeMans models were mostly ignored (at best) by Guzzi owners and buyers anyway.

Without a doubt the bike will go over $3000 as well as over $5000. I suspect it will go for around $10,000 but being an auction who knows as it could go higher!

[guzziart]

"Some of us do like the handling of our 16” wheeled LMs."

Yep

[LowRyter]

The same auction company sold the Steve Mcqueen Mustang for $3.4M.

I am guessing but I'd say this Guzzi will go for $3,400,001.00.

Just a guess.  It's a Guzzi after all.   

[Tom]

As stated earlier 1987 LeMans IV 1000SE.  I never have had problems riding mine with respects to the 16" front wheel.  I don't particularly care for the swallow tail stying but it's one in the model changes of LeMans for Moto Guzzi. 

The biggest problem was finding the right carb's accel pump being set-up wrong from the factory.  3 times richer than the left.

[Rough Edge racing]

 So what's the opinion here.....If this 81 Guzzi was to actually be started and used on the road, what parts would need replacement for reliable operation?

[Turin]

The rubber ones.

[Devildog]

Here is another bike to guess how high the bids go.
AMS in Dallas have had this NEW Ducati 900 S2 on their website for over a year, price $44,000.
Will it reach their asking price?

[Cdn850T5NT]

The rubber ones.

'Yo da man' to comment on the SE... it's drive qualities, foibles, etc....

[80CX100]

I know exactly where it's from: Quebec, Canada. Moto 2001 was in LaChine, Quebec, then subsequently in Longueil (sp?) - both suburbs of Montreal. I bought my T5 Eurospec from Francesco Romanelli - the owner of Moto 2001 in Oct 1993. Frank had at the time four crated bikes... my 1985 T5, a 1000 SPIi (similar model year), and two LeMans bikes (and likely this bike is one of those two). I would have bought the SPII had I had the $.  I will attempt to post pictures of my bike's arrival (the same crate) at my home, lol. I remember the day well :).

At the time I was suspicious as to the condition... and so I had a friend check it out. It had been kept in a heated warehouse (at that time) and was totally corrosion free. Don't know what happened in the intervening years.  I later visited Frank while on vacation in late 2009.

There is a story to yet tell re Frank and the bikes... Later :) .

You were right on the money that the bike originated from Frank Romanelli in Quebec, but somehow it ended up in the hands of the Gagnon brothers who run the Motorcycle Museum "Musee L'Epopee La Moto" in Saint Jean Port Jolie, Quebec,(on my bucket list to go).

I saw the link on FB for the catalogue of 21 bikes that are duplicates in their collection that they are sending to auction, interesting story on the background of the brothers and some very desirable motorcycles. A lot of nice Bimotas, 4 Guzzis, 4 Ducatis, 2 rare XR HD's, Laverda & MV Augusta etc.

The brothers have obviously done well for themselves following their passion.

Any bets if the total collection could bring in up to 7 figures if auction fever kicks in? If not how close to it?

https://cdn1.mecum.com/assets/docs/LV20_MuseeLEpopee/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1TSECFZWhGe7CnAI3iVv3YR4OUvnekF5V1XQyXo2OVRsGKHX1pY9j6xf0

Enjoy

Kelly

[Turin]

Noooo, I'm the worst person to explain the foibles of the lemans 1000. I've never ridden a stocker.
My SE is a total freakshow, race motor, altered steering offset, etc.

That said, I've never had to feather the clutch.

[Cdn850T5NT]

My bad, Turin...  I got confused.  It is Groover who has TWO 1000 Lemans IV's - both SE's.  We need to call on him to talk about his two SE's!!!

[Cdn850T5NT]

You were right on the money that the bike originated from Frank Romanelli in Quebec, but somehow it ended up in the hands of the Gagnon brothers who run the Motorcycle Museum "Musee L'Epopee La Moto" in Saint Jean Port Jolie, Quebec,(on my bucket list to go).

I saw the link on FB for the catalogue of 21 bikes that are duplicates in their collection that they are sending to auction, interesting story on the background of the brothers and some very desirable motorcycles. A lot of nice Bimotas, 4 Guzzis, 4 Ducatis, 2 rare XR HD's, Laverda & MV Augusta etc.

The brothers have obviously done well for themselves following their passion.

Any bets if the total collection could bring in up to 7 figures if auction fever kicks in? If not how close to it?

https://cdn1.mecum.com/assets/docs/LV20_MuseeLEpopee/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1TSECFZWhGe7CnAI3iVv3YR4OUvnekF5V1XQyXo2OVRsGKHX1pY9j6xf0

Enjoy

Kelly

80CX100 - Kelly:

The bike mentioned is no doubt, oh, an '85 thru '87 1000 Lemans IV.  I am not sure which years the SE was produced during...  I think, for sure, though it could be up to an '87.

The story re Francesco Romanelli was that as Moto 2001 - he was importing to Canada non-federalized bikes.... Euro bikes.  When Transport Canada caught wind of it - they ended-up shutting him down.  And Francesco had four bikes in hand, when I somehow learned about him... in 1993.  Francesco was / is quite well-off, and also I believe pretty stubborn... and he simply kept these non-federalized bikes in his warm and dry warehouse.  My '85 850T5NT was one of them... and I bought it from him (personal) sight-unseen.  I had a former colleague of mine who moved back to the Montreal area visit Francesco and peek in the box.  All was fine, per John's review.  And indeed, when I received my bike, I was delighted as to the condition it was in.  Frozen in time - it was a brand new '85... acquired in late 1993.

Now 'cause the bikes were in Canada, and because for some reason Francesco could CONTINUE to provide an NVIS... New Vehicle Information Statement... the bike was, actually, registerable in British Columbia.  Now, in any case, it is all moot... as for BC, a vehicle 15 years or older, regardless of federalized or not, can be imported and run within the province.

There are several reasons why the bike was not fit for use, originally, according to Transport Canada:

-  the brake system had no "papers";

-  the polycarbonate "windscreen" atop the bikini fairing had no papers, either;

-  the bike did not have the requisite side-reflectors;

-  the carburetion was not federalized / strangled (it was euronorm, at the time); and

-  the bike did not come equipped with mirrors (though, of course, there were M10 X ?? threadings in the hand-controls for same.

This is all I recall about this.  However, the brake system without papers was the following issue:  in Europe at the time, mfrs engaged a testing outfit in Switzerland, as I understand it, to certify the brake system as being able to stop within so many metres... from such and such a speed.  Individual firms did not conduct the officially prescribed tests for same.

In Canada, Transport Canada had rules where individual Mfrs had to do this.  And Moto Guzzi, 2nd oldest M/C producer in the world, said (in their inimitable Italian way):  What!  You're trying to tell us we don't know how to produce a motorcycle braking system!?!?!.  Screw You!

And, if folks knew Francesco... well, I suspect he, too, said this.

So Transport Canada shut down the party.  And Francesco, being well-off enough and stubborn enough, just sat on the bikes.

I don't know how the bikes subsequently made their way to that other Party in Quebec.

I did actually meet Francesco in person.  I visited him in Ville St. Laurent, a subburb of Montreal, in about 2009.  He was no spring chicken, then.... I don't know what became of him.

I think there is a website, though, by him at www.romoto.com

He was / is a pretty talented fellow, an engineer.  Different ideas from some of us, to be sure, but pretty darned talented.  I saw some of his work and was pretty impressed.

[Tusayan]

I did actually meet Francesco in person.  I visited him in Ville St. Laurent, a subburb of Montreal, in about 2009.  He was no spring chicken, then.... I don't know what became of him.

I think there is a website, though, by him at www.romoto.com

He was / is a pretty talented fellow, an engineer.  Different ideas from some of us, to be sure, but pretty darned talented.  I saw some of his work and was pretty impressed.

Thanks for the interesting post and link.  The contact info now provided is in southern Italy, a sort of nondescript area.

[80CX100]

Hey Cdn850T5NT,    Frank sounds like quite the eccentric character, seems to have lots of smarts and cash to back up his ideas.

I ripped through the website on the that link you posted, very talented man thinking outside the box, replacing the rear suspension with a simple torsion bar hidden in the swing arm, sounds so simple light and trouble free, if it worked , I'm surprised no one else has thought of it.

Tks for sharing the back story on him


Kelly

[slopokes]

I had a sp2 with the 16” front wheel—took me a while to get used to that bike but once I did it was great.👍👍👍

[Cdn850T5NT]

Which aspects of the SPII took getting used-to for you?

[Cdn850T5NT]

This 1000 LeMans IV SE, model year 1987, sold today at the Mecum auction for $US 20,000... They still had the description wrong - i.e as a 1981 LeMans.  Who's bet was closest to the $ sold for?

My buddy Alan tells me that the moment it is taken out of the crate, $2 or $3k more is spent on getting it going / roadworthy... its value immediately drops from $23k to the prevailing value for an '87 LeMans SE.... Oh well, such is the collector bike business.

Front master cyl is NLA... and it means a whole new set of hand controls / switches...

[Lannis]

This 1000 LeMans IV SE, model year 1987, sold today at the Mecum auction for $US 20,000... They still had the description wrong - i.e as a 1981 LeMans.  Who's bet was closest to the $ sold for?

Well, we had:

"$3,000"
"more than $3,000"
"more than $3,000 but not as much as $11,800" (me)
"$10,000"
"$11,800" and that's the winner.

and some silly guesses.

So Groover, Come On Down!   This episode of "The Price Is Right" brought to you by Mecum Auctions .....

Lannis

[Tom]

$20K 

[Cdn850T5NT]

Groover I think you already have two (2) SE's. You would know them well!

[Groover]

I'm rich! Yes, I have two now worth a grand total of $50,000! (Not) That was exciting to watch, I thought it would then stop at 15, my wife said 20, so I guess that makes her the winner 

[sdcr]

I'm not surprised, for at least two reasons.

One, there are few, if any, additional Moto Guzzi Le Mans SE motorcycles, still ensconced in their original crate, so rarity.

Second, these Las Vegas Auctions sometime exhibit "irrational exhuberance" among the bidders.

Well, we had:

"$3,000"
"more than $3,000"
"more than $3,000 but not as much as $11,800" (me)
"$10,000"
"$11,800" and that's the winner.

and some silly guesses.

So Groover, Come On Down!   This episode of "The Price Is Right" brought to you by Mecum Auctions .....

Lannis

[oldbike54]

 Someone might be getting a very expensive lesson about Moto Guzzi in the near future .

 I never really trust these auction price figures , if this thing shows up for sale in another auction we will know what really happened .

 Dusty

[Cdn850T5NT]

Unfortunate truth is that it's worth more remaining in the crate I think...

[TN Mark]

This 1000 LeMans IV SE, model year 1987, sold today at the Mecum auction for $US 20,000... They still had the description wrong - i.e as a 1981 LeMans.  Who's bet was closest to the $ sold for?

My buddy Alan tells me that the moment it is taken out of the crate, $2 or $3k more is spent on getting it going / roadworthy... its value immediately drops from $23k to the prevailing value for an '87 LeMans SE.... Oh well, such is the collector bike business.

Front master cyl is NLA... and it means a whole new set of hand controls / switches...

Never underestimate the _______________ of people.

You fill in the blank. Here are a few ideas:
brilliance
ignorance
insight
stupidity
foolishness
intelligence
spontaneity
exuberance
pridefulness
rationality

No matter what, leave it in the crate. Somewhere someone from Piaggio, perhaps an engineer or a sales manager from years gone by, may have fainted upon hearing of this.

[Travlr]

The bike will never be uncrated.  It's an investment, not a motorcycle.

M

[s1120]

Its a high price, but really the value of the sporing Guzzis are climbing as they get older..  the V7 sport..the V7S, LM I, 1000S..   all knocking on 20K. The LM III gaining quick..   You can never know.. but as time goes on, those late model LM runners might climb.. Granted... its still a crap shoot paying top $$ now..  .

[Ncdan]

So what's the opinion here.....If this 81 Guzzi was to actually be started and used on the road, what parts would need replacement for reliable operation?

All rubber and cork gaskets, seals and tires.

[tazio]

The bike will never be uncrated.  It's an investment, not a motorcycle.

M

Bingo