Author Topic: 1971 Ambassador revival  (Read 15517 times)

Offline Tom

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #60 on: October 21, 2021, 07:48:32 PM »
I could be wrong on this but I don't think WD 40 can dissolve the dead dried gas.  It can flush out the particles but you'll need a strong solvent.  I like what you made as your work area.   :thumb:
From the Deep Deep South out in left field.  There are no stupid questions.  There are however stupid people asking questions.  🤣, this includes me.  😉

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #61 on: October 21, 2021, 08:16:12 PM »
Big thanks to @Joshua for swinging by, showing me his beautiful bike (which I believe many of you are familiar with!) and helping me get my bike up on the work table. Have my little nook ready for some winter tinkering!






Thanks for the tips on rotating the carbs to get the dishes off, worked a treat, and here is what I have. Can I just clean them up with some WD-40? I plan to rebuild them soon, but for now just want to get the bike running, and address the most pressing issues first.





image uploader


Here is picture of one of the fuel filters, looks unused. I need to dig deeper into this 'dual-banjo' recommendation I think. Or maybe just get it hooked back up to the tank first and get it running ;-)




"Sophia", the Ambo I rebuilt back over the Winter of '04/'05.  :thumb:

Sometimes when carbs aren't too bad, I clean them with a squirt bottle of Super Clean. It's very effective in removing light "varnish" and the squirt bottle will spray through all of the carb passages. That filter has a nice deposit of crud in it, but according to the manufacturer can be "backflushed" to remove it. I usually just replace them.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 08:18:39 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #62 on: October 21, 2021, 08:39:08 PM »
"Sophia", the Ambo I rebuilt back over the Winter of '04/'05.  :thumb:

Sometimes when carbs aren't too bad, I clean them with a squirt bottle of Super Clean. It's very effective in removing light "varnish" and the squirt bottle will spray through all of the carb passages. That filter has a nice deposit of crud in it, but according to the manufacturer can be "backflushed" to remove it. I usually just replace them.

Stunning bike good sir, I couldn't stop staring at it ;-) I'll pick up some Super Clean, but can I clean the threads and such where there is light rust, with WD40?

I'm ordering the dual banjos and carb kits. Trying to figure out the petcocks, can I use these that were original to the bike, or is there a big advantage to the 'upgraded'/later ones?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=227

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #63 on: October 21, 2021, 10:07:13 PM »
Stunning bike good sir, I couldn't stop staring at it ;-) I'll pick up some Super Clean, but can I clean the threads and such where there is light rust, with WD40?

I'm ordering the dual banjos and carb kits. Trying to figure out the petcocks, can I use these that were original to the bike, or is there a big advantage to the 'upgraded'/later ones?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=227

I also use Berkebile 2+2 Gum Cutter a lot. WD40 really won't do much of anything in my experience. I use my Dremel with a variety of stainless brushes (wheel, cup, end bristle) to clean some of the threaded areas of the carbs. Don't know if you've seen this, but it might help: https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_carburetor_rebuild_-__vhb.html

Pine Sol works really well for cleaning carbs too:
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_carburetor_cleaning_with_pine-sol.html

I'd recommend replacing the float needles, filter screens and choke valves as well. I wouldn't replace the floats though.
Charlie

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #63 on: October 21, 2021, 10:07:13 PM »

Offline John Ulrich

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #64 on: October 21, 2021, 10:36:44 PM »
Berryman B12 is my solvent of choice.
Eagan, MN & Scottsdale, AZ
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Offline Tom H

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #65 on: October 21, 2021, 11:13:23 PM »
This is another dip style carb cleaner. It can be found at many auto parts stores:

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/chem-dip/berryman-chem-dip-96-ounce-cleaner/bry3/0996?q=carb+dip&pos=0

For the petcocks. I have a set that you linked to. The ones I have work just fine after about 10-15 years. The new ones, with the warnings listed, maybe don't work as well. You could also go with the newer style with the adapters from MG Cycle. I have a set of those as well. Downside is that they sit very close to the carb tops. Maybe Charlie knows who is making a replacement rubber gasket for the petcocks that supposedly fit the originals, this is another option.

Good luck!!
Tom
2004 Cali EV Touring
1972 Eldo
1970 Ambo V1000
1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
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Offline Mayor_of_BBQ

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #66 on: October 22, 2021, 05:22:33 AM »
pinesol soaking works well, but don't leave any rubber bits, floats, or slides soaking in there too long. I once soaked carb parts in pinesol for 3-4 days (got distracted) and it pitted the hell out of my slides, had to replace them.
Chad (Shadrach) in Asheville NC
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2007 Breva 1100 (Sport 1200 tribute)

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #67 on: October 22, 2021, 08:53:43 AM »
Trying to figure out the petcocks, can I use these that were original to the bike, or is there a big advantage to the 'upgraded'/later ones?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=227

The petcocks you have are the "upgraded/later ones" with adapters. If they're not usable, I'll send you a pair off of a Mille GT tank that are.

pinesol soaking works well, but don't leave any rubber bits, floats, or slides soaking in there too long. I once soaked carb parts in pinesol for 3-4 days (got distracted) and it pitted the hell out of my slides, had to replace them.

Before soaking in Pine-Sol, any rubber bits should be removed anyway. The floats will do just that, so I clean those and the slides with Super Clean and an old toothbrush.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 09:03:59 AM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #68 on: October 22, 2021, 11:30:36 AM »
Big thanks to @Joshua for swinging by, showing me his beautiful bike (which I believe many of you are familiar with!) and helping me get my bike up on the work table. Have my little nook ready for some winter tinkering!






Thanks for the tips on rotating the carbs to get the dishes off, worked a treat, and here is what I have. Can I just clean them up with some WD-40? I plan to rebuild them soon, but for now just want to get the bike running, and address the most pressing issues first.





image uploader


Here is picture of one of the fuel filters, looks unused. I need to dig deeper into this 'dual-banjo' recommendation I think. Or maybe just get it hooked back up to the tank first and get it running ;-)




Be wary of that type of in line fuel filter Demet.  If you get cheap ones they can snap off where the barb meets the wide end, leaving you with fuel flowing everywhere but into the carb.  I prefer a clean tank with good filters at the petcock and carb banjo, and fresh fuel line in between.  There are some nice in line filters, but for me they mean four additional junctions to leak, need clamping or complicate repairs. Ben
Ben Zehnder - Orleans, MA USA

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #69 on: October 22, 2021, 12:15:21 PM »
Be wary of that type of in line fuel filter Demet.  If you get cheap ones they can snap off where the barb meets the wide end, leaving you with fuel flowing everywhere but into the carb.  I prefer a clean tank with good filters at the petcock and carb banjo, and fresh fuel line in between.  There are some nice in line filters, but for me they mean four additional junctions to leak, need clamping or complicate repairs. Ben

Agreed. I only use "Visu-Filter" and K&N brands of those filters. But really, the in-tank strainer and filter screens in the carbs are enough unless one is running "sediment supreme" gasoline.  :wink:
Charlie

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #70 on: October 22, 2021, 10:59:16 PM »
Thanks, I have ordered the carb rebuild kit and have been studying that thread on This Old Tractor. Kind of scary to be honest, but I like the idea of knowing the carbs inside out and that they are clean and good to go ;-) Also bought some PineSol today, and some carb cleaner.

I also use Berkebile 2+2 Gum Cutter a lot. WD40 really won't do much of anything in my experience. I use my Dremel with a variety of stainless brushes (wheel, cup, end bristle) to clean some of the threaded areas of the carbs. Don't know if you've seen this, but it might help: https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_carburetor_rebuild_-__vhb.html

Pine Sol works really well for cleaning carbs too:
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_carburetor_cleaning_with_pine-sol.html

I'd recommend replacing the float needles, filter screens and choke valves as well. I wouldn't replace the floats though.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 11:08:15 PM by demet »

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #71 on: October 22, 2021, 11:07:46 PM »
Thanks guys, I will ditch the in-line fuel filters, the 'more potential points of failure' argument works for me. And I think I'm going to go with the old style petcocks:
7efbfca35afb3" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=227:705f217283466678860 7efbfca35afb3

These will come with the tank filter? And then I need these filters for the carb?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1290

And do I need this kit to get petcocks properly aligned?
4a18663b8d4d2" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5393:1b9e43c170cd3fc5962 4a18663b8d4d2

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #72 on: October 23, 2021, 05:04:19 PM »
Thanks guys, I will ditch the in-line fuel filters, the 'more potential points of failure' argument works for me. And I think I'm going to go with the old style petcocks:
7efbfca35afb3" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=227:705f217283466678860 7efbfca35afb3

These will come with the tank filter? And then I need these filters for the carb?
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1290

And do I need this kit to get petcocks properly aligned?
4a18663b8d4d2" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5393:1b9e43c170cd3fc5962 4a18663b8d4d2

I would stick with the petcocks you have at present or another pair of the newer type. The reproduction "sugar cubes" you link to have issues - the seal sometimes turns with the lever and either doesn't turn the flow off or doesn't open it up. The newer types work great, the repros... not so much. The newer type also doesn't need any "alignment shims".

You should replace the round filter screens in the carbs. When they get old, brown and hard, you may need more torque on the M6 banjo bolt to get it to seal. New ones are softer, so less torque needed.
Charlie

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #73 on: October 23, 2021, 10:25:50 PM »
Dang, wish I had not missed this message, before I ordered the older 'sugar cube' petcocks. Well, I can still use the ones I have that are newer style, and I need the stand pipes anyway....

I would stick with the petcocks you have at present or another pair of the newer type. The reproduction "sugar cubes" you link to have issues - the seal sometimes turns with the lever and either doesn't turn the flow off or doesn't open it up. The newer types work great, the repros... not so much. The newer type also doesn't need any "alignment shims".

You should replace the round filter screens in the carbs. When they get old, brown and hard, you may need more torque on the M6 banjo bolt to get it to seal. New ones are softer, so less torque needed.

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #74 on: October 23, 2021, 10:32:17 PM »
I ordered the carb kits, and got the left side carb off. Damn I'm scared, I know how easy it can be to take something apart versus putting it back together LOL.




Will soak the left side carb in Pine Sol, following protocol on This Old Tractor. Then when carb kits show up will put left side back together before taking right side off.

Taking off carb I found this rubber bit that apparently funnels air from air filter, is cracked. Can anyone tell me what it is called, part number and/or where I can find one?






Ultimately glad I have decided to rebuild carbs, as much as it scares me. Noticed some of the rubber bits seem pretty worn. Gasket on float dish fell apart, etc.

Offline Mayor_of_BBQ

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #75 on: October 24, 2021, 07:44:10 AM »
the carbs are easy. follow Greg's advice on doing one as a time and follow his steps/pics from this old tractor, it's not hard at all.

I would return those sugar cubes as soon as you get them or try to call and cancel them off your order. As several people pointed out, the repro ones suck unless you rebuild them from new with the seal kits referenced above.

The airbox/rubber manifold is junk IMHO. Read up on that at This old Tractor also, Most people end up with pods. I am running the Mike Tiberieo/ UNI filter option shown there, no issues and runs great.  If you do keep the airbox, you can get repro rubber boot/manifold/whatever it's called. There are also instructions on this old tractor for how to set it up.


Maybe the short answer is just read everything at this old tractor and thank your stars for Greg Bender!
Chad (Shadrach) in Asheville NC
1979 LeMans CX-100 (battle axe)
2007 Breva 1100 (Sport 1200 tribute)

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #76 on: October 24, 2021, 09:11:27 AM »
Taking off carb I found this rubber bit that apparently funnels air from air filter, is cracked. Can anyone tell me what it is called, part number and/or where I can find one?






"Air box boot" or "sleeve, carb". Available from MG Cycle:
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=279&products_id=230
and Harper's:
https://www.harpermoto.com/sleeve-carb-12114301.html

If the cover plate of the air filter box is deformed, fitting the boot can be a pain. I simply straighten the cover plate best I can and "glue" the boot into place with Permatex Ultra Black RTV. The boot only fits one way, take your time to get it to fit right before installing the airbox.
https://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_air_box.html

If you're not prepared to do a  little work to make it fit, then just use pod filters.
Charlie

Offline Tom

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #77 on: October 24, 2021, 01:42:12 PM »
Unless you're willing to do a complete oem restoration to your bike, the oem airbag with boot is hard to work.  On 3 Eldo's and an Ambo, I went with K&N's and Uni's.  Not the best option but better than stock.  The side covers hide the "upgrade" and save additional frustration in time wasted.  I still have the oem stuff on a shelf in the garage.
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Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #78 on: October 24, 2021, 03:03:11 PM »
OK thanks, I have just read a ton about petcocks, and have sent an email hoping to cancel those 'sugarcube' ones I ordered. I will either buy the updated/newer set from MGCYCLE or try to use the ones I have.

But one thing is still unclear to me, the standpipes/filter screens. On the updated ones from MGCYCLE they say:
"Note: you must remove the filter screens from the new petcocks prior to use.  Ensure that the plastic tube that creates the reserve function is fully seated and secured in the correct hole. In order to ensure that you have adequate fuel filtering, you might inspect the fuel inlet screens (43934000) where your fuel lines attach to your carburetors, and refresh them if necessary."

Why are they included if you can't use them? So only fuel filter is the screen at the carb inlet? Might need the in-line filters then?

I did find the John Chicoine stainless standpipes (EDIT: filter screens, not standpipes - I guess you still use the plastic tube inside as the standpipe?) on This Old Tractor, which will supposedly work, but why will these work and not the ones that come with the updated petcocks? I could maybe order a set of these, and try them on the petcocks I have (and maybe order a set of those gaskets from the guy referenced as well). If they don't work and/or can't be repaired I could then order the set from MGCCYLE. The ~$130 for a set is giving me pause haha.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 03:11:10 PM by demet »

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #79 on: October 24, 2021, 03:09:31 PM »
I did find an air cleaner boot on ebay, but will look into the pod option. I remember seeing that on some bikes. Will inspect my air cleaner box and see if it is flat.

And I promise to read up more on This Old Tractor before asking questions here! That site is amazing I have to say!

Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #80 on: October 24, 2021, 03:57:25 PM »
OK thanks, I have just read a ton about petcocks, and have sent an email hoping to cancel those 'sugarcube' ones I ordered. I will either buy the updated/newer set from MGCYCLE or try to use the ones I have.

But one thing is still unclear to me, the standpipes/filter screens. On the updated ones from MGCYCLE they say:
"Note: you must remove the filter screens from the new petcocks prior to use.  Ensure that the plastic tube that creates the reserve function is fully seated and secured in the correct hole. In order to ensure that you have adequate fuel filtering, you might inspect the fuel inlet screens (43934000) where your fuel lines attach to your carburetors, and refresh them if necessary."

Why are they included if you can't use them? So only fuel filter is the screen at the carb inlet? Might need the in-line filters then?

I did find the John Chicoine stainless standpipes (EDIT: filter screens, not standpipes - I guess you still use the plastic tube inside as the standpipe?) on This Old Tractor, which will supposedly work, but why will these work and not the ones that come with the updated petcocks? I could maybe order a set of these, and try them on the petcocks I have (and maybe order a set of those gaskets from the guy referenced as well). If they don't work and/or can't be repaired I could then order the set from MGCCYLE. The ~$130 for a set is giving me pause haha.

The screens are included because they come with the petcocks, you don't use those as they will not fit into the adapters. You do use the standpipe/plastic tube if you want to have any reserve. Where do you see $130 for a set? I see $65.12 for two adapters, two petcocks and four sealing washers. That's all you need for one bike.

Since you already have the adapters you do not need the whole kit! You could buy just the petcocks and reuse the adapters.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=379&products_id=1319
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1320

I have installed a half dozen of the "petcock update kits". I always drill the hole in the adapters slightly larger - the plastic tube can be kinked otherwise. The plastic tube is retained. Since you can't use the strainer screens, a pair of inline filters isn't a bad idea, especially if your tank isn't exactly spotless inside.

 

Charlie

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #81 on: October 24, 2021, 09:19:23 PM »
Ah OK, I see now it's a kit, whereas the sugarcube listing is for a single petcock. OK I will order the ones you linked to without the adaptor. Thanks! My tank was relined 10 years ago, but never saw any gas and looks pristine inside. I'd rather not do the in-line filters, think I'll be OK with just the carb screens, which will be new? Or I could add the stainless screens for the updated petcock?

The screens are included because they come with the petcocks, you don't use those as they will not fit into the adapters. You do use the standpipe/plastic tube if you want to have any reserve. Where do you see $130 for a set? I see $65.12 for two adapters, two petcocks and four sealing washers. That's all you need for one bike.

Since you already have the adapters you do not need the whole kit! You could buy just the petcocks and reuse the adapters.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=379&products_id=1319
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1320

I have installed a half dozen of the "petcock update kits". I always drill the hole in the adapters slightly larger - the plastic tube can be kinked otherwise. The plastic tube is retained. Since you can't use the strainer screens, a pair of inline filters isn't a bad idea, especially if your tank isn't exactly spotless inside.

Offline Tom H

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #82 on: October 24, 2021, 09:49:23 PM »
If you use the Uni Filter pods and want to keep the stock look of having the air filter box. The Uni filters will stuff inside the air box without the front air box cover.

Tom
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1972 Eldo
1970 Ambo V1000
1973 R75/5 SWB with Toaster
2007 HD Street Bob
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Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #83 on: October 25, 2021, 06:30:24 PM »
Can anyone give me any tips on getting this plastic sleeve out of the carburator body? Or can I leave it's in during Pine Sol soak?
I hit it with wd40 but can't see how to move it.




Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #84 on: October 25, 2021, 08:16:00 PM »
Can anyone give me any tips on getting this plastic sleeve out of the carburator body? Or can I leave it's in during Pine Sol soak?
I hit it with wd40 but can't see how to move it.





Leave it in.
Charlie

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #85 on: October 27, 2021, 09:57:26 PM »
Looking at the 'pod' alternatives to the stock air filter box. Doesn't seem that straight forward tbh. My airbox seems fairly straight/unmolested. I'm inclined to go with Charlie's technique of gluing rubber boot to the airbox, as described on This Old Tractor.

Offline Kiwi_Roy

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #86 on: October 28, 2021, 01:04:55 AM »
---------------------------
I did find the John Chicoine stainless standpipes (EDIT: filter screens, not standpipes - I guess you still use the plastic tube inside as the standpipe?) on This Old Tractor, which will supposedly work, but why will these work and not the ones that come with the updated petcocks? I could maybe order a set of these, and try them on the petcocks I have (and maybe order a set of those gaskets from the guy referenced as well). If they don't work and/or can't be repaired I could then order the set from MGCCYLE. The ~$130 for a set is giving me pause haha.
I rebuilt my sugar cubes over 5 years ago using John's kits, they are still leakproof.
He also supplied new screens.
His kit has washers in a range of thicknesses which all owe you to get them tight in the correct orientation.
72 Eldorado
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Moto Guzzi - making electricians out of riders since March 15 1921

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #87 on: October 31, 2021, 09:16:12 PM »
One carb done and back on bike! Went fairly smoothly I guess, but I'll be surprised if it works lol. Second carb now soaking in Pine Sol.

Both of my carbs were missing the jam nut on the choke, as you can se in the picture where my finger is. Do I need it? What does it do? Anyone know what size nut it is? Couldn't find anything at my local Ace, and they laughed when I told them what it was for ;-) Seems like 6mm, and pitch less then 1.0...?



Offline Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #88 on: October 31, 2021, 10:06:44 PM »
One carb done and back on bike! Went fairly smoothly I guess, but I'll be surprised if it works lol. Second carb now soaking in Pine Sol.

Both of my carbs were missing the jam nut on the choke, as you can se in the picture where my finger is. Do I need it? What does it do? Anyone know what size nut it is? Couldn't find anything at my local Ace, and they laughed when I told them what it was for ;-) Seems like 6mm, and pitch less then 1.0...?




It keeps the adjuster from threading in or out. IIRC, it's M6 x .75 thread.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=62&products_id=1291
Charlie

Offline demet

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Re: 1971 Ambassador revival
« Reply #89 on: October 31, 2021, 10:47:17 PM »
OK thank you! I will try my local guru hardware store tomorrow, or will order these.

It keeps the adjuster from threading in or out. IIRC, it's M6 x .75 thread.
https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=62&products_id=1291

 

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