Author Topic: Typical Price For First Service  (Read 3191 times)

Offline Paultergeist

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Typical Price For First Service
« on: February 05, 2021, 11:24:09 PM »
Greetings,
My V85 TT is coming up on the mileage at which the very first service is recommended.  Although I plan to eventually learn to do some of this myself, I am probably not ready just yet, and i was planning on letting the dealership handle this first service.  Their recommendations:

Engine oil and filter change.
Gearbox oil change.
Rear differential oil change.
Valve adjustment.
Double-check torque on cylinder head bolts.

Price for all of the above was quoted as $500-600 dollars (USD).  (Location is Southern California if that matters).

I like the dealership, and I want to support their business, but I also confess that the quoted price took me back a bit, as it seems considerably higher than I had expected.  I would be curious if anyone else has a comparative price for this sort of service, so I can gain some perspective...?  Thanks.

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2021, 11:50:04 PM »
$500 for a first service is the general ballpark, at least for these new shaft drive bikes. Add in your location, and I can understand the higher amount as well. But, honestly, outside of the valve clearance check, you can easily do the rest yourself. Save yourself a couple hundred.
Current: ‘16 Guzzi V7 II Stone

Previous: ‘15 Ural Gear Up, ‘77 Kawasaki KZ400 Special, ‘78 Honda CX500S, ‘80 Honda CX500D, ‘11 Suzuki TU250X

Offline moto-uno

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2021, 12:02:12 AM »
  Begs the question , how much is 3 or so hours worth at their shop ?
  And the price of the oils and filter they use ? That's what they charge
  here in the Vancouver area of B.C . And yes , it's kinda out of touch with
  what you get for the money . Real Estate makes everything here ludicrous !
  Nothing to do with mechanics wages or shop expenses . Peter

Online Kiwi_Roy

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2021, 03:47:06 AM »
When my V7III came up for first service the guys on here convinced me I should do it myself so I approached the dealership and bought a kit containing all the parts and fluids they normally use.
The service manager was quite ok with that and just told me to make a record of what I did.
The only tricky part was the gearbox, you have to measure the oil volume as there is no way of measuring the level.
Apart from the engine oil and filter I had enough supplies to do several oil changes and now I have a list of consumables.
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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2021, 03:47:06 AM »

Offline greer

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2021, 04:58:38 AM »
Paul,

I understand feeling "not quite ready" as I have been there myself.  Pledge to be a repeat customer as often as possible (you're gonna need tires) promise to bring the bike in clean as a pin, and ask if they'll do it for $450.  It can't hurt.

Sarah
Sarah '21 V7 Special, '17 XT250, '17 V9 Roamer sold August 2021, '16 V7 II Stone sold September 2021, '08 Nevada Classic sold August 2020 
Doug '21 V85TT, '05 Sportster Roadster, '13 XT250

Offline chuck peterson

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2021, 05:27:52 AM »
Q:Have you torqued cylinder heads before?

A: No


 :popcorn:



That never stopped me, but I’ve been plain lucky not to destroy anything.

Did get the tdc wrong once when adjusting the valves. That made a funny noise...

If all else fails read directions?

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Offline bodine99

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2021, 05:37:12 AM »
No Guzzi riders in your area that do or can help with a tech day and your service? Dealers are a rip in your wallet.  :thumb:

Offline Perazzimx14

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2021, 05:55:50 AM »
No Guzzi riders in your area that do or can help with a tech day and your service? Dealers are a rip in your wallet.  :thumb:

Dealers don't rip into your wallet as you have the choice to support them or not. I find the 600 service thing to be very interesting in these days of modern manufacture. This 600 service interval is almost universal between every manufacturer. A lot of automobiles that roll off the assembly line don't get a 1st service until 10,000 miles and its only an oil/filter change. Not sure why modern motorcycles still need to have a 600 miles service like they did 40 years ago. Is it possible that its more of a fluff fee like dealer prep and really not necessary anymore but its kept as a way to for dealers to make a little extra money?




Online blu guzz

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2021, 07:07:22 AM »
I always let the dealer do the first service and have gotten it thrown in with each new bike I have bought including the V85TT.  I want them to perform all of those checks that are required.  If there is a problem, I want them to jump on it before it devolves into a worse problem and then I have a problem getting warranty work.  Since they have seen hundreds or thousands and know what they are looking at, I want that.  I would pay the $500-$600 for that if I had to.  I then do the rest myself, except if a service involves the in-tank fuel filter, will probably let the dealer do that part of it.  Or, if the ABS is as big a pain in the ass as it was on my beemers, will let them do that as well.  That is just me.
But, unless the OP has a mentor, he should let the dealer do the first service, in my opinion.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2021, 07:30:04 AM »
Since they have seen hundreds or thousands and know what they are looking at, I want that.  I would pay the $500-$600 for that if I had to.

It's just as likely the guy handed the routine first service has seen about 5 of them, is being paid flat-rate which means he makes more the faster he can do it (because he can get onto another job quicker), and that he won't see anything that could "devolve into a problem."

At some point you have to ask yourself if you trusted the dealer to prep the bike properly or not. If they did, what would they miss. If they didn't, why would they find something now?*

Break-in services are the vestigial tail of the powersports industry. They are there for dealer profit combined with a CYA for the OEM. In comparison our new $75k Defender's first service is still 18 months away.



*Note: I'll answer my own question there. The OEM cya is if a dealer actually finds something that has started to come undone on the first few hundred miles. Rare, but in theory possible if something was put together wrong or is defective. The cya is that perhaps a dealer tech would spot a potential developing safety issue at that point. It's a widely cast net that very rarely brings in a single fish.
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Offline Bisbonian

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2021, 07:32:26 AM »
That isn't about what I was quoted.

Look at the manual and see what is actually suggested for the first service, I think there are some extra items on the list you gave.

Part of the service would also be to shut off the service reminder, that's worth $60 locally.

Offline Perazzimx14

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2021, 07:43:07 AM »
It's just as likely the guy handed the routine first service has seen about 5 of them, is being paid flat-rate which means he makes more the faster he can do it (because he can get onto another job quicker), and that he won't see anything that could "devolve into a problem."

At some point you have to ask yourself if you trusted the dealer to prep the bike properly or not. If they did, what would they miss. If they didn't, why would they find something now?*

Break-in services are the vestigial tail of the powersports industry. They are there for dealer profit combined with a CYA for the OEM. In comparison our new $75k Defender's first service is still 18 months away.

 
*Note: I'll answer my own question there. The OEM cya is if a dealer actually finds something that has started to come undone on the first few hundred miles. Rare, but in theory possible if something was put together wrong or is defective. The cya is that perhaps a dealer tech would spot a potential developing safety issue at that point. It's a widely cast net that very rarely brings in a single fish.

It would be very interesting to be a fly on the wall in most shops to see if and what they actually do on the 1st service. I'm betting a lot of the time you aren't getting what you think you should.


Offline Vagrant

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2021, 07:55:33 AM »
Double-check torque on cylinder head bolts.  Right off the bat, that statement says whoever quoted you DKS! That procedure finally went away for the 2017 + small blocks. two hours max if they actually check other fasteners and change all fluids even if not called for.
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Offline lucian

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2021, 08:01:18 AM »
On top of items you mentioned as part of the first service, I would add the following checks;

  -Clutch operation
 -  steering head bearing for free play
 -  swingarm pivot for free play
 -  brake operation/ fluid levels
 - All lights and directionals
 -  ECU checked for stored faults
 -  general check of fasteners

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2021, 08:24:52 AM »
It would be very interesting to be a fly on the wall in most shops to see if and what they actually do on the 1st service. I'm betting a lot of the time you aren't getting what you think you should.

Many shops around here would let you watch.  The one I bought the most bikes from even let me help uncrate my new bikes and watch them come to life.

That said, I always read the service manual and only let them do the first service while I watched.  Caught the tech spin the rear wheel after putting some new oil in the shaft drive and told him that now we have to wait until the oil settles before adding more at the risk of overfilling.  When he scoffed at my statement,, I referred him to the page in the service manual that stated not to move the wheel. 

These days you get what you inspect, not what you expect.
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Offline Kev m

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2021, 09:23:40 AM »
It would be very interesting to be a fly on the wall in most shops to see if and what they actually do on the 1st service. I'm betting a lot of the time you aren't getting what you think you should.

Judging from decades of involvement in the industry I absolutely agree.
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Offline Bisbonian

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2021, 09:29:59 AM »
From the manual, the items for the first service are:

Inspect steering bearings and clearance.
Diagnosis by tool, I'm sure this is PADS or whatever is being used now.
Inspect brake pads and discs for wear.
Replace engine oil filter and oil.
Inspect general vehicle operation.
Adjust valve clearance.
Inspect braking system, lights, safety switches, brake fluid, tire pressure/wear, and loose nuts/bolts.
Adjust the clutch clearance.

On my previous post my iPad autocorrected me to say that isn't about what I was quoted when I meant to say that it was about what I was quoted. As you can see from the list, most of the stuff that's scheduled for the first service is just inspection. I elected to change the oil/filter myself, gave the bike a good once-over, and adjusted the valves. I don't have a diagnosis tool to turn off the maintenance reminder or do anything with the computer but the bike was running fine. I eventually took the bike in to have the maintenance reminder reset because it drove me nuts.

Final drive and transmission fluids are not on the schedule until the 18k mile service, although I'll probably change mine at the 6k mark. I already bought a liter of the stuff so I'm set to go.

For my first service I was probably in for $30 by doing it myself; $15 for the filter and then 2 quarts of oil. Everything else was just getting familiar with the bike. I simply could not afford $600 so I was motivated to do it myself, granted I've adjusted the valves on a big block Guzzi before so the process was somewhat familiar but there are plenty of videos and other resources out there to help you out if you're so inclined.

Offline Kev m

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2021, 09:32:44 AM »
Vag makes a great point, head torque is a thing of the past even on Guzzis.

On top of items you mentioned as part of the first service, I would add the following checks;

  -Clutch operation
 -  steering head bearing for free play
 -  swingarm pivot for free play
 -  brake operation/ fluid levels
 - All lights and directionals
 -  ECU checked for stored faults
 -  general check of fasteners

That whole list is maybe 15 minutes.

Support bike and check swingarm for play, rotate bars and check steering head for binding, grab wheels and check for okaygrab brakes and push on front end to check bearings for play, test ride, maybe MAYBE use scan tool to check for codes but no light = unlikely anything stored that would matter. Actually checking for an ecu update world be more relevant.
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Offline Gappy

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2021, 09:35:52 AM »
I remember when you bought a new motorcycle the first and maybe second service calls where free. The dealers you bought it from treated you as a valued customer and your bike was special and warranty service calls went to the front of the line. Now it is like going to the grocery store and buying a can of peas, what brand should you buy
And how big a can.

Now you have to make an appointment get in line to pay for 30-50 dollars worth of shop supply’s and a good look over. Shows you how long it has been since I bought a new bike, at least 40 years.

A motorcycle dealer in Iowa ( name I won’t mention ) dropped Guzzi after the Piaggio buy out, commented that he would sell a customer a Moto Guzzi and they would never come back.

Be glad it is a Moto Guzzi and not a BMW
« Last Edit: February 06, 2021, 09:39:21 AM by Gappy »
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Online bad Chad

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2021, 09:35:55 AM »
Different bike, but closely related, my v9 says change out trans fluid and motor oil/filter at 900 miles, nothing about the rear end until 18,000 miles.

Like said above, no need to re-torque heads, (changed gasket material a few years ago, ended the needed)
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Online bad Chad

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2021, 09:39:01 AM »
I remember when you bought a new motorcycle the first and maybe second service calls where free. The dealers you bought it from treated you as a valued customer and your bike was special and warranty service calls went to the front of the line. Now it is like going to the grocery store and buying a can of peas, what brand should you buy
And how big a can.

Now you have to make an appointment get in line to pay for 30-50 dollars worth of shop supply’s and a good look over. Shows you how long it has been since I bought a new bike, at least 40 years.

A motorcycle dealer in Iowa ( name I won’t mention ) dropped Guzzi after the Piaggio buy out, commented that he would sell a customer a Moto Guzzi and they would never come back.

Indeed, I couldn't tell you how many times I have heard guys brag about NEVER having to take their bike to a Guzzi shop!
2007 Breva 1100  Red Arrow (and faster than yours!)
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Online Ncdan

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2021, 09:58:59 AM »
I would conclude that if one has no mechanical abilities what so ever they would need to return their bike to the dealer for the first service, even though the majority of the items that are suppose to be done are even necessary.
I don’t know an individual dealers ethics on actually doing all the procedures on the list. However stings have been preformed on places like the quick lube business where a 16 point service check, this number varies, and it turns out that the only service provided was oil and filter changed and windshield fluid topped off. However the customer would be informed that their wipers needed replacement for a reduced fee, of course🤔

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2021, 10:07:20 AM »
From the manual, the items for the first service are:

Inspect steering bearings and clearance.
Diagnosis by tool, I'm sure this is PADS or whatever is being used now.
Inspect brake pads and discs for wear.
Replace engine oil filter and oil.
Inspect general vehicle operation.
Adjust valve clearance.
Inspect braking system, lights, safety switches, brake fluid, tire pressure/wear, and loose nuts/bolts.
Adjust the clutch clearance.

On my previous post my iPad autocorrected me to say that isn't about what I was quoted when I meant to say that it was about what I was quoted. As you can see from the list, most of the stuff that's scheduled for the first service is just inspection. I elected to change the oil/filter myself, gave the bike a good once-over, and adjusted the valves. I don't have a diagnosis tool to turn off the maintenance reminder or do anything with the computer but the bike was running fine. I eventually took the bike in to have the maintenance reminder reset because it drove me nuts.

Final drive and transmission fluids are not on the schedule until the 18k mile service, although I'll probably change mine at the 6k mark. I already bought a liter of the stuff so I'm set to go.

For my first service I was probably in for $30 by doing it myself; $15 for the filter and then 2 quarts of oil. Everything else was just getting familiar with the bike. I simply could not afford $600 so I was motivated to do it myself, granted I've adjusted the valves on a big block Guzzi before so the process was somewhat familiar but there are plenty of videos and other resources out there to help you out if you're so inclined.

This is what I did.  When did the manual change to recommend replacing transmission and bevel box oil at that low of a mileage, as stated by the OP?  Does not make sense, or else the dealer recommending it does not bother to read the manual??  Hmmm.

Offline Dirk_S

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2021, 10:21:21 AM »
Screenshots of the maintenance schedule taken from the V85TT owners manual included for reference:









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Online Solorider73

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2021, 10:22:57 AM »
I normally let my dealer do the first service on all my bikes. I figure if it has a manufacturing defect it should show up in the first 1000 miles. Just takes one argument off the table if the bike has a major problem.

For my V85TT and V7 III the first service cost was ~$300.  My dealer changed all the fluids during the first service on both bikes. It also included the value clearance check. My dealer is located in Tennessee for reference.

I think the cost is more based on the labor rate in your area and the amount of time they allow for each task.
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Offline Vagrant

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2021, 11:12:27 AM »
In 1989 I bought a new Harly dresser from a dealer 200 miles away. he was the only guy with the color I wanted in stock. Seemed like a great shop so I took it in for I think it was a 3000 or 5000-mile check-up. Unfortunately, I had to replace the rear tire 500 miles later due to hitting something so I took it to the closest dealer about 45 miles away. He called me back to the shop right away saying "I don't know or care who did the last service, but the drive belt is so tight it would have destroyed the output shaft bearing in no time and the primary chain has 1/2 the free play it should". And that ends my let the dealer do it lesson for today! I do it all myself now. At least I know who f'd it up.
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Offline subin

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2021, 12:32:05 PM »
I got a quote from OC Motorcycle (where I bought the 2019 V7 III) last December and it was around $450 for the first service and includes those items listed on the owner's manual. I then checked Pro Italia and their price is about the same.

I would most likely use OC Motorcycle and check with them and see if I can get some sort of discount since I bought the bike from them. The only issue is that they are around 36 miles away and to check valve clearance the bike needs to be cool. I am not going to wait in their shop for 6 hours, so I am planning on doing the valve clearance myself and let them do the rest.

I don't mind paying them for the service, as long as they actually do what the book says and do them right. When I go there, I would just casually mentioned that my past experience with the motorcycle dealer service was that they only did oil and filter change and nothing else, but charged me for everything. After I get the bike back, I would check if they actually tighten the clutch and throttle cables, lube the levers, correct oil level, and tire pressure. If any of these does not satisfy me, I will let the owner know and not going back to them again.
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Offline ampm7

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2021, 01:28:27 PM »
If you are in Lemon Grove GP would do the work. However, most of that stuff is easy. Except perhaps the head bolts. I don't know if that is even necessary on the newer motors. For measuring out the trans oil and final drive oil get yourself an accurate beaker set up for milliliters and measure out the appropriate amount after draining completely. Put plug back in and refill. Or you can fill to the lower bolt hole but I prefer to do it with the beaker as I don't have to prop the bike up and can leave on the side stand. With the oil sump, warm up the motor (as with the trans and drive by riding it) and the drain is usually a 17mm bolt under the crankcase. Drain oil from crankcase and remove filter, put new one in and put in plug bolt and refill using the dipstick hole. Next, pull valve covers and alternator cover and find crankcase nut (usually 24-27mm). Remove spark plugs and rotate motor counter-clockwise if looking towards motor from front of bike. Stick a small 12" dowel into spark plug hole and watch the lifters go up and down until both valves are closed. Then just jiggle the rockers and if they are somewhat loose check valve clearance. Now if you have to do the head bolts, you probably have to remove the rockers. There will be a cross patch tightening sequence so adhere to that. As for the steering bearings I seriously doubt anything would be wrong with them unless they completely forgot to add grease which is not unknown from Guzzi. Simply lift the front wheel off the ground and rotate handlebars. If there is a problem you will realize it. When you have the rear tire changed, make sure that the splines are greased with a non-flinging moly grease. Many times they won't do this at a dealership but it is essential. And most of all check all bolts for tightness or that they have not moved from their paint markings. And most of all use a high quality oil preferably synthetic. Amazingly, I am doing this work as I write this!       



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Online twowheeladdict

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Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2021, 01:44:13 PM »
I got a quote from OC Motorcycle (where I bought the 2019 V7 III) last December and it was around $450 for the first service and includes those items listed on the owner's manual. I then checked Pro Italia and their price is about the same.

I would most likely use OC Motorcycle and check with them and see if I can get some sort of discount since I bought the bike from them. The only issue is that they are around 36 miles away and to check valve clearance the bike needs to be cool. I am not going to wait in their shop for 6 hours, so I am planning on doing the valve clearance myself and let them do the rest.

I don't mind paying them for the service, as long as they actually do what the book says and do them right. When I go there, I would just casually mentioned that my past experience with the motorcycle dealer service was that they only did oil and filter change and nothing else, but charged me for everything. After I get the bike back, I would check if they actually tighten the clutch and throttle cables, lube the levers, correct oil level, and tire pressure. If any of these does not satisfy me, I will let the owner know and not going back to them again.

If you really want to know if they are doing everything loosen something out of tolerance, like the clutch or speedo cable.  Loosen a turn signal bulb or connector.  Then inspect those items after asking them if everything was in spec.
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2018 Road Glide Special
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Offline Kev m

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  • Yo from Medford, NJ
Re: Typical Price For First Service
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2021, 02:15:39 PM »


However, most of that stuff is easy. Except perhaps the head bolts.


Next, pull valve covers and alternator cover and find crankcase nut (usually 24-27mm).

Remove spark plugs and rotate motor counter-clockwise if looking towards motor from front of bike.

Now if you have to do the head bolts, you probably have to remove the rockers.

A couple of nit picks.

The 2016 Heron head smallblock V7II was the last Guzzi to need a head retorque. The big blocks hadn't needed it for more than a decade before that.

You didn't need to remove the rocker arms on a Heron head smallblock to do so though. And there was nothing difficult about it.

And jeez, counter-clockwise?!? On what motor?

Doesn't matter, the smallblocks since about 2015 have all had wet alternators, you don't want to try and remove that cover to spin the motor.

But jeez I thought all the Guzzis I've had turned clockwise when viewed from the front? Am I remembering something wrong?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 10:43:19 AM by Kev m »
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