Author Topic: A smaller sized touring bike?  (Read 3377 times)

Offline Kane

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #90 on: August 01, 2021, 01:42:42 PM »
“It’s not what you ride, it’s what’s inside!”
This is what a biker told my friend when they met on Hwy 1 as my friend, just out of high school,  was moving from San Francisco to Los Angeles on a loaded down old Vespa scooter. He was a kid, he didn’t know about motorcycles, he didn’t care, and he had a great little coastal tour on his scooter.
Add to that the old adage, “where there’s a will there’s a way”.

Robert Fulton toured the world on a 1930’s Douglas 350 (maybe it was a 300?), Ted Simon did his touring on a 500cc Triumph Tiger 100, and then there is Norly “Itchy Boots” riding the heck out of small adventure dual purpose bikes, albeit not much super slab highway.

I like the sport-touring segment of the motorcycle market, bikes that are sometimes referred to as, “a gentleman’s sport bike”. The Ducati ST series, the Moto Guzzi Brevas, The MV Augusta Turismo-Veloce are brilliant bikes. Some of these bikes are weighing in at 400 - 500 lbs. If you can do without the traditional touring motorcycle accoutrements,  and enjoy riding in a bit of a tuck, these are smaller touring bikes. E.g., LowRyter’s lovely SuperSport. I have sat on of one of these bikes (not ridden done), and the ergos felt better for me than with my V11 Sport. More leg room and a better fit for my knees in the the tank pocket. I am 6’2”, and I ride the V11 2 hours a day and find that bike comfortable enough to tour on. The SS feels better. Check out the 2021Aprilia Tuono RR with a taller windscreen, higher bar risers and lower pegs. There is definitely a move for sport bikes becoming long distance orientated, or at least revisiting that market segment of the old K1200s, Ducati STs, the last series of LeMans.

Offline Testarossa

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #91 on: August 01, 2021, 01:55:37 PM »
My 850T weighs 510 lb with fairing and full fuel. It's a dandy touring mount. My Mille is probably 25 lb heavier counting the extra brake discs and SP fairing. So 535 for a competent two-up touring rig.

It's a sad fact that the average American weighs 15% more today than in 1976. Over the same period, the dry weight of a Goldwing has risen 28%.

The average American today weighs 30 lb more than the average Western European, 40 lb more than the average Japanese. No wonder they send us heavier bikes than they did 40 years ago.
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Offline Kane

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #92 on: August 01, 2021, 02:07:32 PM »
I remember hearing many years ago that Disneyland had to replace the Small World ride’s boats with bigger boats as the the passengers’ weight had been increasing to where the old boats couldn’t cut it.

Offline JJ

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #93 on: August 01, 2021, 02:15:16 PM »
Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.

Being able to maintain 60 is about 30 MPH shy of what is currently needed on most highways/.

If you are riding on SECONDARY roads, 250cc and 60mph is fine....but if you have to motor down on today's modern Interstates, you need a bike that will cruise at 75mph (minimum) IMHO, without straining, (or blowing up), the engine ...That has always been my criteria for a long distance touring bike...

...and of course, if you have the time, one can avoid the Interstates altogether...
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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #93 on: August 01, 2021, 02:15:16 PM »

Online Perazzimx14

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #94 on: August 01, 2021, 02:39:10 PM »
If you are riding on SECONDARY roads, 250cc and 60mph is fine....but if you have to motor down on today's modern Interstates, you need a bike that will cruise at 75mph (minimum) IMHO, without straining, (or blowing up), the engine ...That has always been my criteria for a long distance touring bike...

...and of course, if you have the time, one can avoid the Interstates altogether...

That's what I'm saying. I could tour on a 5hp mini-bike or 50cc scooter if I had the time. For me since vacation time is not unlimited I prefer a bike I can hop on and grind out a big day to get or to be able to stay in the good riding longer. Sometimes you just gotta get there or back.






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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #95 on: August 01, 2021, 03:16:56 PM »
Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.

Being able to maintain 60 is about 30 MPH shy of what is currently needed on most highways/.

Seriously? Where? Around here, 75-80 mph will get you a performance award pronto.
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Offline Snowman

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #96 on: August 01, 2021, 03:36:17 PM »
It really isn't the bike but the rider. 75% of $25,000 BMW GS bikes with $8K of farkles will never see an adventure. Then the serious rider will put thousands of miles a year on a bike 1/4 the cost that biker snobs would consider inadequate. This population has been raised by TV PR companies, that image is more important than reality. A $95K Land Rover with roof top tent is not needed to camp in the wilderness of the Sedona KOA. The smaller older motorcycles with high miles gain my respect at rallies, the posers do not.

I am 60 next year so my next choice; MG V7 E5 850. Hepco Becker hard cases and racks, a screen and a Seth Lamb seat.  Ride the shit out of it as it was made to do.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 03:41:59 PM by Snowman »
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Offline Darren Williams

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #97 on: August 01, 2021, 05:06:39 PM »
I have a 2015 FJ09. To me it is a really good mid-size sport touring bike. If the catagorie is sport touring, it can not be slow or poor handling.

Upright ergos (similar to an adventure bike, with wide high bars, plenty of leg room), high but narrow seat at 33", and frame mounted half fairing, hand guards, adjustable wind screen. Weighs 463 lbs wet. 200+ mile range (4.8 gal tank and 45 MPG) with lots of power (115 hp and 65 torques) and good adjustable suspension for sporty riding or high speed runs. Texas 2 lanes have 75 mph limits with most going 80+ so in my world it has to be able to run fast and long with quick multiple car/truck passes. Bikez says 4 sec to 60 mph and 11.25 sec quarter mile. Long maintenance intervals (26,000 mile valve checks).

The new Tracers are even better handling with electronic cruise, heated grips....
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 05:58:31 PM by Darren Williams »
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Offline Moparnut72

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #98 on: August 01, 2021, 05:34:15 PM »
"It's a sad fact that the average American weighs 15% more today than in 1976. Over the same period, the dry weight of a Goldwing has risen 28%.

The average American today weighs 30 lb more than the average Western European, 40 lb more than the average Japanese. No wonder they send us heavier bikes than they did 40 years ago."

I weigh 160 lbs soaking wet.  My V7lll is way oversprung because it is probably set up for 200 pounders plus. My Audace could be more compliant as well. I would probably be more inclined to to tour on the V7 if it rode better. Something I will need to work on but aftermarket suspension is $$$$.

Speaking of heavy weight Americans I recently tried to find some narrow width boots. Redwing has always had them but no more. Salesperson told me that Americans are too big and they don't make them anymore because nobody can fit into them anymore.
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Offline Darren Williams

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #99 on: August 01, 2021, 05:50:57 PM »
"It's a sad fact that the average American weighs 15% more today than in 1976. Over the same period, the dry weight of a Goldwing has risen 28%.

The average American today weighs 30 lb more than the average Western European, 40 lb more than the average Japanese. No wonder they send us heavier bikes than they did 40 years ago."

I weigh 160 lbs soaking wet.  My V7lll is way oversprung because it is probably set up for 200 pounders plus. My Audace could be more compliant as well. I would probably be more inclined to to tour on the V7 if it rode better. Something I will need to work on but aftermarket suspension is $$$$.

Speaking of heavy weight Americans I recently tried to find some narrow width boots. Redwing has always had them but no more. Salesperson told me that Americans are too big and they don't make them anymore because nobody can fit into them anymore.
kk

By the time you add in your weight, riding gear, farkles and a bit of luggage (backpack, tail bag or side cases with tool rolls and rain gear...). How much are our bikes really carrying?  My Tenere 700 weighed 426 lbs on our shipping scale at work in stock condition. After the front crash bars, center stand, tool kit under the seat, tail /luggage rack and rear pannier mounts (used mostly as crash protection), it was weighing in at almost 500 lbs.  My personal riding gear is 10 lbs summer and over 20 lbs in winter.

Poor little bike having to haul that much around...   :cry:
The best part of riding a motorcycle is to tilt the horizon and to lift the front coming out of a corner and to drift the back end powering thru loose dirt and to catch a little air topping a hill and... yeah it's all good!

Offline Scud

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #100 on: August 02, 2021, 12:04:03 AM »
How about the BMW F800ST... 400 lbs dry weight, belt drive. Rotax parallel twin motor. Seems like a very practical bike, but BMW only made them from 2006-2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_F800ST
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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #101 on: August 02, 2021, 01:58:43 AM »
I know a guy who rides that bike all over the US.  Loves it.  That's what I imagine a 850TT based motorcycle set up for road work would be like.  Same ballpark.
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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #102 on: August 02, 2021, 05:43:32 AM »
I've 'toured' with most any bike type imaginable. For a number of years it was Ferrying bikes for guys that wouldn't ride in the dark, it's too far, I don't have the time to ride all that way. Amazing how well that paid - most times. Curiously they were mostly bmw's.

Now that I've aged out of bikes weighing more than ~350#'s I'm back to 650's and smaller, plus 2 strokes for quick, indecent fun.

I still believe a DR650 w/correct suspension changes, gearing, wheels, tires and brakes could be excellent. There's large amount of luggage to chose from including aux. fuel, plus lighting, handle bars, electric grips, wind screens.

I've had a short stack of Moto Guzzis' for the last 25 years, but 2 SV650S's have done close to 200K miles,collectively, (many of them BBGolds), with never a whimper or flat.  Do you want to Tour or repair?   R3~

You just described the Suzuki Savage. 
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Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #103 on: August 02, 2021, 06:20:06 AM »
You just described the Suzuki Savage.

Be careful you don't start WWIII of the Tightwads!!!!  The Suzuki Savage owners make the Wild Guzzi bunch look like Rockefeller's when it comes to being stingy cheap bastards!!!!!

One of the most informative motorcycle websites out there:   

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Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #104 on: August 02, 2021, 06:32:57 AM »

Now that I've aged out of bikes weighing more than ~350#'s I'm back to 650's and smaller, plus 2 strokes for quick, indecent fun.

I still believe a DR650 w/correct suspension changes, gearing, wheels, tires and brakes could be excellent. There's large amount of luggage to chose from including aux. fuel, plus lighting, handle bars, electric grips, wind screens.



I'm in the same boat.

DR 650's can be made into any type of motorcycle one can imagine.  No doubt not for everyone, but part of the charm is the tailoring to bike to your specific needs and making it uniquely yours.

DR owners who wish to save money should never visit this website:   https://procycle.us/model/suzuki/dr650

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #105 on: August 02, 2021, 08:08:30 AM »
Be careful you don't start WWIII of the Tightwads!!!!  The Suzuki Savage owners make the Wild Guzzi bunch look like Rockefeller's when it comes to being stingy cheap bastards!!!!!

One of the most informative motorcycle websites out there:   

http://www.suzukisavage.com/home/

If anyone ever wants a dirt cheap introduction to the Suzuki Savage without risking the cost of actually buying one, download this free CD:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1199986392

 :thumb:

I saw a couple converted to cafe bikes via a kit at Barber's.   Definitely a cool inexpensive platform.
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Online Kev m

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #106 on: August 02, 2021, 08:43:44 AM »
Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.

Being able to maintain 60 is about 30 MPH shy of what is currently needed on most highways/.

I think you pointed out this phenomenon recently, but it's amazing how people always feel the need to take a simple question on the internet and pound it to dust answering everything else around it and usually not even answer the original question itself.

I'm surprised we haven't reached "Who needs a motorcycle when you can tour with a backpack and your legs."

But then the next guy would be like "Oh, you are gonna wear shoes, you big pussy."

The OP asked a question about bikes that come from the OEM set-up for touring with things like hard luggage and wind protection.

Anyone who has been around motorcycles for a few years (never mind the decades most here can claim) knows you CAN set up anything for travel if you try hard enough. But there are limits to comfort, capacity, and performance (from fuel range or steady speeds to 2-up accommodations and staying warm or cool or not getting buffeted all day).

I just got back from a short 1500 mile or so trip with Jenn. Now most of the days I was riding with her we were only covering maybe 200-250 miles a day. We can each do that on any bike we currently own/ride, no worries. So she chose her Duc. But logistics meant that I needed to start and end the trip with a 400 mile day and largely highway. And though I CAN do that on my V7, it is a LOT easier (and ultimately more fun especially when conditions deteriorate) on my TOURING bike.

For those that still aren't following, by TOURING I mean what most of the world means, the bike that is built, equipped, marketed, and generally perceived as a bike for long distance in comfort. In this case my RK.



Interestingly enough Friday we were making our way across part of the Appalachian highway in some seriously high crosswinds. I was aware of them because there was a little buffeting around the windshield. Jenn was aware of them because her bike was being blown around the road. So there's definitely something to a bike with a little more weight at times.

Honestly my RK is huge and sometimes wish I had a slightly smaller heavyweight tour bike. Harley makes one in the form of a almost 700# Sport Glide (complete with small removable fairing and clamshell hard bags). But you give up things to get that.

I can't really think of a smaller sized touring bike from an OEM that appeals to me right now.

If I was to SET UP a smaller bike myself for touring these days the V7 850 would likely be at the top of my list. But I wonder about attractively styled wind management for that bike. Could be a challenge, but a half fairing would be awesome. Still I'm not sure it could be sufficient

Anyway, here we have each of our "touring" bikes packed and ready for the final 400 miles home.

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Offline kingoffleece

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #107 on: August 02, 2021, 09:53:16 AM »
Well said, sir.
Back on topic, a quarter or half fairing at most.  The Norge was the first and last full fairing bike I'll buy.  It's NOT bad, just not what I like.  My Tiger 1050 with a decent sized cowl up front was really good-even at 28 degrees returning from WV in November (with heated gear).  I know most Norge owners find them ok but after 5 years I realized it was just too hot for me-not enough air.
I have a good riding bud with the 900 yamaha touring version, whatever it's called, and he likes it a lot.
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Offline JJ

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #108 on: August 02, 2021, 11:27:47 AM »
Again, something like this would be fine...but for secondary roads only...NOT for today's modern interstates...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2009-royal-enfield-bullet-500-electra-efi-raf-tribute/

Regarding fairings, some people "POO-POO" them, but I can tell you from experience, they are a GODSEND in very inclement weather, like riding through cold wind and cold rain. :thumb:

I used to also make fun of "heated seats / grips" until I had several Beemers and Harley's equipped with them.  They are a nice and welcome accessory when you need them! :wink:

Moby Dick, aka, The Great White Whale, has two-stage heated grips / seat long with an electric windshield.  EXCELLENT!!





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Offline Testarossa

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #109 on: August 02, 2021, 01:22:23 PM »
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And then there's the matter of price. Guesstimating:

For a new middleweight, factory equipped with fairing, bags, cruise control, heated grips etc, maybe $13,000 to $15,000?

Converting a new middleweight naked bike: Bike $9,000, fairing $300, panniers and rack $600, grips $100, maybe $12,500? Add a better saddle as needed and you might as well buy the factory-equipped bike.

Converting a used middleweight (my Mille for example): Purchase price $2,500, eBay SP fairing $250, eBay H/B panniers/rack $500, grips $100 = $3,350. If my time is worth $40/hour, installation is $300. That leaves around $10,000 to cover insurance, fuel, tires and normal maintenance for 50,000+ miles.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 02:40:25 PM by Testarossa »
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Offline SIR REAL ED

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #110 on: August 02, 2021, 01:35:07 PM »




Kev,

Is that pretty lady flippin you "da bird!"?  Not only cute, but obviously a good judge of character!!!

God how I love that "North of the Mason Dixon Line" sense of humor!

"I hurt yer feelins?  Fuhgedabutit!"
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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #111 on: August 02, 2021, 02:09:11 PM »
Kev,

Is that pretty lady flippin you "da bird!"?  Not only cute, but obviously a good judge of character!!!

God how I love that "North of the Mason Dixon Line" sense of humor!

"I hurt yer feelins?  Fuhgedabutit!"

 :laugh:   :thumb:   :boozing:
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Offline bad Chad

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #112 on: August 02, 2021, 04:34:56 PM »
This works great for me, and I'm Big!
v9 Roamer, I up graded the suspension, but that is not necessary.
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CBow rack $245, bags $150
Givi tail rack $150, fits all Givi top boxes.   Now I'm a savvy shopper, so I didn't pay list price on much of this, but that's another story.
I sometimes also run with a magnetic tanks bags for even more space.  That gives me, without a tank bag 86 liters of water proof easily detachable luggage, plus anything else I strap on the pillion seat. 

I just got back from a 800 mile weekend at the WI rally, great time as always.  This sub 500Lb bike, before I load all my shit and I get on, worked fantastically as a mid sized tour.  Never lacked for power under any circumstance, was comfortable mile after mile, and no problems.  Four gallon tank is good for a minimum of 175 miles; I do think it would be tight for two up touring, unless both riders were sub 150 lb, and even then I think it would be less than ideal.

I'm not claiming its the best way to tour, but it works pretty darn well for me. 



« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 04:36:02 PM by bad Chad »
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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #113 on: August 02, 2021, 06:38:37 PM »
Well said, sir.
Back on topic, a quarter or half fairing at most.  The Norge was the first and last full fairing bike I'll buy.  It's NOT bad, just not what I like.  My Tiger 1050 with a decent sized cowl up front was really good-even at 28 degrees returning from WV in November (with heated gear).  I know most Norge owners find them ok but after 5 years I realized it was just too hot for me-not enough air.
I have a good riding bud with the 900 yamaha touring version, whatever it's called, and he likes it a lot.

I parted with my Triumph Trophy SE because it had too much weather protection.  I couldn't ride in gear 5 months out of the year on it.  I could wear a mesh jacket down into the 50s and be comfortable.

This is also why I traded the Road Glide Ultra.  The radiators are in the lowers so they are not removable. 

I can convert my Road Glide Special into a Road Glide Ultra with lowers, tour pack, and larger windshield for the cooler months, and then strip it down with just the fairing and shorty shield for the summer months. 

Still, wouldn't mind if it weighed 300 lbs less.  Only an issue when stopping on uneven ground. 
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Offline bad Chad

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #114 on: August 02, 2021, 07:25:48 PM »
You wouldn’t mind if it weighed 300 pounds less!!   

Think about that.  Your wishing it lost over a third of its weight.   
Glade I don’t have to sell that.
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Offline twowings

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #115 on: August 04, 2021, 09:05:22 PM »
Honda Groms are fairly easy to pick up...plenty of folks on ***rider.com touring on those...
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Offline Dharma Bum

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #116 on: August 04, 2021, 09:48:56 PM »
Here's my small touring rig earlier today.


Online LowRyter

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #117 on: August 05, 2021, 08:49:38 AM »
I just saw the same a couple of days ago at the Rio Grande bridge west of Taos. 

This guy and his buddy on 'wing were riding down from Minnesota.  They described themselves as OCD engineers.  The Breva was surging/missing intermittently.  Perhaps he contacted Matt in Alb?





 

I just noticed I got the bridge in the 2nd photo.  Actually hadn't previewed the photo before I posted it.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2021, 08:52:19 AM by LowRyter »
John L 
When life gets you down remember it's one down and the rest are up.  (1-N-23456)

Online twowheeladdict

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #118 on: August 05, 2021, 11:46:09 AM »
You wouldn’t mind if it weighed 300 pounds less!!   

Think about that.  Your wishing it lost over a third of its weight.   
Glade I don’t have to sell that.

You would be amazed at where weight savings can be made when designing a touring bike from scratch.  The problem is that the price would either make it unsellable, or the profit margins would be less. 

the wet weight of a Harley Road Glide Ultra is 937 lbs.

the wet weight of a Harley Sport Glide is just under 700 lbs. 

The goldwing tour is 837 lbs.

The BMW 1600 GTL is 771 lbs

The BMW R1250RT is 615 lbs.

So, I suppose I could move to the R1250RT, but the increased seat height might make it feel as heavy since I can't triangle out my legs like I can on the Harley. 

2018 V7 III Carbon Dark #0009 of 1921
2018 Road Glide Special
2019 Royal Enfield Himalayan
2017 Suzuki Van Van 200

Online blu guzz

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Re: A smaller sized touring bike?
« Reply #119 on: August 05, 2021, 12:10:17 PM »
if the op's criterion was a bike with a true full coverage fairing (the only thing that gets wet in the rain at 60 mph is the crown of the helmet and the tips of the riding boots), then in my book, the RT is still the lowest weight bike you can get.  615 is not bad, but the seat is pretty tall and there is a lot of weight up high.
Blue Guzz

 


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